quote:

Originally posted by tradewinds:

quote:

The morning we left camp, Bobby and I divided the tips into two envelops, one for Paul, and one for him to distribute to his staff.

Again, If it was so bad and the PH was a lazy jerk why the hell would you give him a tip?

quote:

Originally posted by safari12:
I did offer Bobby a chance at going back for a discounted price if he wanted to along with what we have already done FYI.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Bobby,

Why don't you just call Adam and ask him what he has in mind. 1-210-698-0077 I can promise you he won't answer you on the forum. You of course can publish the offer if you like. He'll be in the office Tuesday 9AM Central time.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by dukxdog:

quote:

Originally posted by tradewinds:

quote:

The morning we left camp, Bobby and I divided the tips into two envelops, one for Paul, and one for him to distribute to his staff.

Again, If it was so bad and the PH was a lazy jerk why the hell would you give him a tip?

We wanted to get out of Tanzania (and camp) alive.

Before the hunt Safari Trackers asked on a form if there were any special diet requirements needed. I put down I did NOT want CHICKEN. Well we were served FOUR MEALS OF CHICKEN.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


Yep, we hunted Mahange North prior to Adam getting it.

And we got all our buffalo. All mature, hard bossed bulls.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


Yep, we hunted Mahange North prior to Adam getting it.

And we got all our buffalo. All mature, hard bossed bulls.

No wonder they didn't do well on Buffalo! Saeed shot them all!

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by dukxdog:

quote:

Originally posted by tradewinds:

quote:

The morning we left camp, Bobby and I divided the tips into two envelops, one for Paul, and one for him to distribute to his staff.

Again, If it was so bad and the PH was a lazy jerk why the hell would you give him a tip?

We wanted to get out of Tanzania (and camp) alive.

Before the hunt Safari Trackers asked on a form if there were any special diet requirements needed. I put down I did NOT want CHICKEN. Well we were served FOUR MEALS OF CHICKEN.

Give me a break . . .

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Reality is that only two people on this thread know all the facts.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Spotted chicken casserol or curry is one of my favourite dishes on safari.

It is right up there with a buffalo steak.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
It's not the world's biggest deal or detail, but if someone is paying thousands of dollars for a hunting experience and the provider asks you if you have any dietary preferences and you specfically say "no chicken", then having chicken for 4 meals would be a pretty big deal as far as I'm concerned. Assume someone said they don't like liver and were served liver, however well cooked, 4 times, do you think they would be happy? I certainly wouldn't and, within reason, having your preferences honored is part of having a good hunting experience. Is it the most important part, obviously not, but the, hopefully, good food is a significant part of a safari experience in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
You must have had chicken for supper tonight. Relax, tomorrow will be another day.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
I have not weighed in on this thread since Adam Clements posted his response.

Bobby, if I were Richard, given the experience the both of you had, and the nasty tenor of the Bundu response, I would run as fast as my feet would take me from any recompense offered.

Bad was bad enough, but worse is yet to come.

And bad money after good is never a smart move. Spend it elsewhere.

Tanzania is heaven on earth, but even heaven has its bad neighborhoods.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
I have not weighed in on this thread since Adam Clements posted his response.

Bobby, if I were Richard, given the experience the both of you had, and the nasty tenor of the Bundu response, I would run as fast as my feet would take me from any recompense offered.

Bad was bad enough, but worse is yet to come.

And bad money after good is never a smart move. Spend it elsewhere.

Tanzania is heaven on earth, but even heaven has its bad neighborhoods.

I had the same thought. It could go either way, but considering all the ancillary costs, airfare, time off, etc, why not just move on? There are other choices.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
I have not weighed in on this thread since Adam Clements posted his response.

Bobby, if I were Richard, given the experience the both of you had, and the nasty tenor of the Bundu response, I would run as fast as my feet would take me from any recompense offered.

Bad was bad enough, but worse is yet to come.

And bad money after good is never a smart move. Spend it elsewhere.

Tanzania is heaven on earth, but even heaven has its bad neighborhoods.

I had the same thought. It could go either way, but considering all the ancillary costs, airfare, time off, etc, why not just move on? There are other choices.

quote:

• I am greatly disappointed in Mark Young and will never ever book anything with him again. As previously noted I thought I could trust him and took him at his word as to the quality and type of hunt I should expect. In retrospect it would be reasonable that Mark was selling a hunt based on what he had been told by Adam Clements and did not have a clue as to the actual conditions in that area. I was further disappointed with Mark’s attitude when I returned to the US -- I immediately contacted him and versed my concern over the lousy hunt. In various forms Mark turned his back on me and told me he only sold the hunts and I would have to talk to Adam.

• With regards to Adam Clements—I emailed him several times as directed by Mark as to issues of a hunt that was far from what I had been sold. In one response Adam said that I had been on the sticks for a 40†buff but turned it down – that was a total lie and I am clueless as to why he said that. In another email he said that the party which followed me into the area had filled their tags in short order. Well excuse me but that party happened to consist of two AR members and they also returned with no buffalo --- another Adam lie to say the least. To this day I cannot even fathom as to why he would make such totally incorrect statements of what actually happened. In short order Adam blew me off with a fatherly type communiqué of sometimes hunting trips don’t always go the way you want them. Well excuse me -- but the hunt provided was not even remotely close to what was unconditionally portrayed by Adam himself. I have been hunting way too long not to understand that this is hunting and not shopping -- but the area was basically void of wildlife. Out of frustration at Adam’s response to my emails and lack of returned phone calls I wrote a letter expressing my concerns with the hunt—including lost day of hunting – extra cost to me for an additional overnight at the Sea Cliff and lack of game in the area which was diametrically opposite of what he had portrayed. I have never received the courtesy of a response --- of any kind.
.............

In retrospect I guilty of buying a cheap hunt that was portrayed and presented as otherwise – my bad. But--- was I treated fairly – debatable I am sure --- did I get the hunt I bought based on what I was told –not even close. Will I book with Mark again/ -- never --- as by his own admission he represents his outfitters over his clients. Do I have a positive opinion of Adam Clements dba Safari Trackers Inc. ?? that -- goes without an answer.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodmnctry:
Dang !!—I missed this dustup until some fellow AR members that were aware of my involvement as to the issue at hand let me know that court was being held on Adam Clements, Mark Young, Paul Horsely and Mehange North. I have been swamped with getting our camps ready for the forthcoming big game seasons here in the Rockies (we sponsor kids with life threatening issues and handicap individuals for big game hunting).

I can add my name to the list of hunters that was had by Adam Clements under the guise of Bundu Safaris in Mahenge North. In so many short words I was sold a hunt by Mark Young and Adam Clements that was a farce --- the only positive aspect of that hunt was that the few beers that I enjoyed were reasonably cold. My personal issue with Adam Clements and Mark Young was that the hunt portrayed by these two individuals -- was far from actuality -- as in very far – as in a joke to say the least.

I would have to check the exact dates but I was booked for a seven day hunt the first week of September 2006. The booking was based on numerous phone discussions with Mark Young and thence with Adam Clements himself. Both of these individuals stated without reservation and or qualification that I would have numerous opportunities at 36â€-38†mature hard headed bulls. It was duly noted by Mark Young that though remotely possible - I should not expect to fill my dreams of a 40†buffalo on this trip. It was also portrayed that I would have ample opportunities at multiple plains game and that I must take one of the Lichtenstein Hartebeest of which the area which had an abundance thereof. With promises of a great cape buffalo hunt dancing in my dreams I agreed to the deal and a contract was provided.

Upon receipt of the contract I noted that the PH was to be Paul Horsely – oh oh!?? Paul had recently been the subject of considerable discussion on the AR board. Following considerable discussions with Mark Young I was assured that Paul should not be considered a negative issue and he highly recommended that I go forward with the deal - which I did. I would note that, at that point in the process, I felt that I could trust and depend on Mark to be honest and forthcoming with what he was selling me. I also checked the references provided by Adam realizing that only and idiot would provide a reference that had endured a bad hunt with his organization. I am guessing that neither I nor any of the other hunters that were taken on a Mehange N hunt in 2006 are on the current Adam Clements Safari Trackers Inc. reference list.

The short version of the ensuing hunt was that in seven days of hard hunting I never took my rifle off safety – for anything. We never encountered a shootable buffalo – never observed a single wildebeest – the only zebras observed were departing at warp speed over 400 yds distant and the only Hartebeest that offered us his soul had only one horn. I never had the opportunity to get on the sticks—for anything.

The hunt started off on a rather negative point when Adam’s people that were responsible for meeting me at the airport forgot me. Only after several phone calls—considerable confusion -- and several hours (four as I recall) later did they (Mathew) come to retrieve me. However— much to my dismay I was advised by Mathew that they had failed to obtain the import permit for my rifle. I was driven to the Sea Cliff for the evening leaving my rifle and ammo with the airport authorities reportedly under lock and key – this late proved to be a total joke.

Following a few barley pops on my ticket at the Sea Cliff, Mathew offered to buy me dinner, in an effort to appease me for the issues relating to the lack of my rifle import permit. We had a reasonable dinner during which Paul Horsely briefly showed up and joined us. When the check for dinner was provided it became apparent that Mathew did not have the means by which to pay for dinner --- oh well this is Africa as I dug into my cash reserves. I was delivered back to the Sea Cliff with strong promises that the rifle permit issue would be resolved in the AM and we would be on our way to camp.

By mid morning I had heard nothing so started attempting to contact/call Mathew and Adam’s office in the USA – all to no avail. The prior night Mathew had advised that he would call me in the AM with plans for a midday departure to camp. This resulted in my hanging out at the Sea Cliff as I could not leave for fear of missing Mathew’s call to tell me all was in order and when we were departing.

During my confinement at the Sea Cliff I did have the great opportunity to bump into Saeed whom immediately invited me to lunch with his group --- yep – Walter is everything you have always wondered about – and more. During lunch, Saeed was explaining to his “crew†as to my current dilemma --- this wound up with Walter confused as to why I was stalled out waiting for a “permit to import my wifeâ€-----duh rifle!!!---much humor and a very enjoyable lunch to say the least—that event was one for the memory book.

I did not hear from Mathew until late afternoon and had resigned myself to another night at the Sea Cliff plus a lost day of my already limited seven day hunt time. Mathew finally showed up and away we went to the airport to retrieve my rifle and ammo. When we walked into the baggage claim area I noticed my rifle case was laying unattended off in a small room – totally open to anyone – only the ammo was semi secured in a desk drawer which was handed over and away we went back to the Sea Cliff.

It is most interesting to note that Mathew claimed that he had to pay an import fee of $100 to get my ammunition and that I needed to compensate him accordingly. I advised him that I had questioned any additional permit costs prior to departing the US and had been advised that all permits were included. I advised Mathew that if he was owed money for his out of pocket expenses that he should contact Adam Clements---- I am guessing he did not do that.

The following morning I was picked up and advised that I would be flown part way to camp in an effort to salvage part of the lost day of hunting. Mathew took me to the airport where we met Paul Horsely and boarded a charter flight for the first portion of the trip. We landed at a somewhat remote airstrip --the name of which now escapes me and following another 3-4 hours of vehicle travel we arrived at camp. As Paul and I set down to complete the paper work I discovered that I only had been issued one permit for buffalo—this was supposed to be a two buffalo hunt – after several phone calls by Paul he assured me all was resolved and I had the go ahead for a second buff – not that I would come to discover that would be an issue --- silly me! I would say that the tent camp was new, reasonably well appointed, good food but a bit overstaffed in my opinion for only one hunter. I did question the need for obvious guards and was advised by Paul that they were there to protect me from bandits and poachers---hmmmm!

The remaining six days were spent in marathon walks chasing buffalo. Simply we did not find a shooter bull no matter what. We did encounter several herds of cows and calves – just nothing we could let the air out of. We also encountered local hunters driving around in their Toyota pickups with multiple armed individuals hanging out of the truck bed—small wonder any critters we did see from the vehicle were on high alert. I never was really given an explanation of what they were doing in the area other than they were not suppose to be there.

With regards to Paul Horsely – during my hunt he acted in a reasonably professional manner and by all appearances gave it his all. The only negative would be several times when we were closing on a buffalo herd, I would have played it a bit different similar to what dukxdog noted. In retrospect I would say that any negatives on Paul’s part was due to being stuck in a lousy hunting area with little to no game. He could not put me or anyone else on game that did not exist. Also as noted by dukxdog the tracker Anton did an excellent job----------when there were tracks to follow. I could tell Paul was as frustrated as I was over the situation but there was nothing he could do about it.

At the end of my hunt I was to be driven back to Dar by one of the drivers which did not speak any English. I did not think this was a huge issue until we stopped in a village and he made a phone call to Paul back in camp. He then handed me the phone to talk to Paul. Paul advised that the truck was broke and they would have to send another one, which would take several hours to reach me for my continued trip back to Dar. At that point my driver basically disappeared and left me sitting in the truck by myself. About an hour later he reappeared -- slightly moved the truck a bit into the shade and thence disappeared again to parts I have no clue. I simply sat there until Paul showed up with another truck. My stay in the village was a bit unnerving as I was the only white honkey to be seen – any where. Numerous children took great delight in sneaking up on me and would then laugh giggle and run away. It all worked out ok but was a bit marginal for this country boy for awhile as I was obviously the talk of the town as so to speak.

My additional comments in bullet form as opposed to trying exceed the amount of pages as established by War and Peace†are as follows.

• I did not have an issue with Paul Horsely’s performance given the lack of game in the concession. He did what he could with the hand he was dealt as so to speak. I am honestly surprised that dukxdog had a significantly different experience with Paul.

• I am greatly disappointed in Mark Young and will never ever book anything with him again. As previously noted I thought I could trust him and took him at his word as to the quality and type of hunt I should expect. In retrospect it would be reasonable that Mark was selling a hunt based on what he had been told by Adam Clements and did not have a clue as to the actual conditions in that area. I was further disappointed with Mark’s attitude when I returned to the US -- I immediately contacted him and versed my concern over the lousy hunt. In various forms Mark turned his back on me and told me he only sold the hunts and I would have to talk to Adam.

• With regards to Adam Clements—I emailed him several times as directed by Mark as to issues of a hunt that was far from what I had been sold. In one response Adam said that I had been on the sticks for a 40†buff but turned it down – that was a total lie and I am clueless as to why he said that. In another email he said that the party which followed me into the area had filled their tags in short order. Well excuse me but that party happened to consist of two AR members and they also returned with no buffalo --- another Adam lie to say the least. To this day I cannot even fathom as to why he would make such totally incorrect statements of what actually happened. In short order Adam blew me off with a fatherly type communiqué of sometimes hunting trips don’t always go the way you want them. Well excuse me -- but the hunt provided was not even remotely close to what was unconditionally portrayed by Adam himself. I have been hunting way too long not to understand that this is hunting and not shopping -- but the area was basically void of wildlife. Out of frustration at Adam’s response to my emails and lack of returned phone calls I wrote a letter expressing my concerns with the hunt—including lost day of hunting – extra cost to me for an additional overnight at the Sea Cliff and lack of game in the area which was diametrically opposite of what he had portrayed. I have never received the courtesy of a response --- of any kind.

• Mehange North — It would appear that Saeed --- with Walters assistance and guidance --- killed all the buff in this concession during his 2005 hunt !!!! In reality I am now aware that many many buffalo were harvested in the area following Saeed’s hunt there. I later happen to connect with several individuals and outfitters that were quite knowledgeable about the issue. I was advised that at least 70 buffalo --and quite possibly as many as 100 – had been shot by other hunts, locals and some of the game scout people themselves. I can only recount what I have been told with regards to the issue - which would seem to relate to what I observed while there and I do realize that as a border area to the Selous animals move in and out. The point being that any reasonable outfitter such as Adam Clements should have known this before he started selling hunts.


In retrospect I am guilty of buying a cheap hunt that was portrayed and presented as otherwise – my bad. But--- was I treated fairly – debatable I am sure --- did I get the hunt I bought based on what I was told –not even close. Will I book with Mark again/ -- never --- as by his own admission he represents his outfitters over his clients. Do I have a positive opinion of Adam Clements dba Safari Trackers Inc. ?? that -- goes without an answer.