This is MY experience....

A friend and myself went on a hunt with Adam Clements Safari trackers aka Tanzania Bundu Safaris. We were in Mahenge North concession next to the Selous Game Reserve. Our licenses were for 2 Buffalo, Hartebeest, Nyssa Wildebeest, Impala, Zebra. I wanted the 2 Buff and a Wildebeest and my friend wanted one Buff and an Impala. It was a seven day hunt. Adam assured us no problem having chances at our animals. He told us there were lots of these animals available in Mahenge. We had PH Paul Horsley assigned to us. Second night there I had $3100+ of my equipment(Leica 1200 scan rangefinder, Leica binos, Sony digital camcorder, 1/2 my ammo, camera memory/batteries, redd oxx bag, etc) stolen from my tent even though a guard was posted to watch over the tent. This was reported to the Game Scout, Galapa, who went to his headquarters to report the theft with serial numbers of my items from my customs forms. After many calls and letters when I returned Adam gave finally gave me $2000 six months later and said that is all he and Steve Kauffman would do. My feeling is that when something like this happens you stand up and make it right with the customer which was not the policy of these guys so I lost out on over $1100.

I was supposed to get 2 buff but was LUCKY to get one. We spooked herds of buff every day, several times a day. Paul Horsley the PH was lazy and would not work around down wind even though Anton kept suggesting we do so to him. After I got my buff(125 yards in an open field 11am) the driver got lost with my friend Richard in the Cruiser. Our radio died and I walked 20 miles back to camp with the tracker, Anton. PH Paul GAVE UP half way to camp so we left him(6:30PM) and sent a truck to get him later(2:30AM). Anton and I arrived at camp 10:30PM. We were both dehydrated since we had no water since 10am before I shot my buff. I drank 3 liters of water and 2 beers when I got to camp. The next morning I pi$$d about 1/2 cup! The Game Scout found the Cruiser at the Selous border at 1:30AM.
All the buff in the skinning shed shot by prior hunters were young, soft bosses. My friend who went with me never even got to fire a shot and all he wanted was one buff and an impala. He came home with nothing. Adam and Mark Young lied to us about the quality and what animals were available. They really oversold this hunt! Adam's liason in DES, Matthew, scammed us for $100 each over ammo we brought with us and me another $50 when I got on the airplane when he bribed the SAA ticket agent. The driver and helper who drove us from camp confronted me angrily in the parking lot of the hotel accusing me of stiffing them on a tip. Adam had told us to leave the tip with Paul who would distribute it to the camp staff. We left two envelopes, one for Paul and one for the staff and that is what I told them but they were really PO'd!
I am an experienced hunter having been an outfitter in WYO for 27 years. I guided Bighorn sheep, elk, mule deer etc. I'm in good shape. This was my second trip to Africa.

I have waited to post this because I had hoped Adam would eventually make this situation right but now I know it won't happen.

If you need more info on Mahenge North, Adam Clements Safari Trackers or Tanzania Bundu Safaris just send me a PM.

This is me just before we left PH Paul to the lions. This is Anton walking with me in the dark back to camp.

These photos show the soot from burning the grass on my legs after I walked back to camp that night. I was black from my socks to my crotch.

PH Paul is on the right and I wouldn't go on a hunt with him if I were you. Anton is on the left and he was GREAT!!! The lost driver is in the yellow shirt. "Stuff" happens and I really didn't mind the hike back to camp. Made for more of an experience. We heard lions and hyenas along the way which was actually pretty cool. It wasn't like we thought of being in danger and Anton was a very jovial chap.

Here is my buff. PH Paul didn't even gut it so it spoiled by the time we got to it the following afternoon. Galapa started to cut off a hind quarter but is was rancid. BAD! The vultures were everywhere. The cape was lost so no trophy.

Sorry to hear about your hunt. A few weeks ago their was a hunt shown on TV organized by the same outfitter & it showed Paul the PH. The Buff hunter also came up empty only shooting an Impala. How would one feel going all the way to Tanzania & returning with only an Impala. I am surprised they even put this hunt on TV.

Reports such as yours are very important to help other hunters avoid some of these outfits.

Thanks for the report. Sorry for your treatment but it will help others. Not many people can do a 20 mile hike, I guess those mountain legs came in handy.

Wow, what a bad experience and I can certainly understand why you're unhappy.

Let me preface this paragraph by saying that I don't know Adam Clements, and have no interest in protecting or defending him at all. That said, I'm not sure how responsible they should be for your lost equipment. I'm not sure what, if anything, was in the contract, but it seems to me they were pretty fair in paying over half of your loss IF they were not responsible for it which seems kind of doubtful to me, based on the information you have supplied. It sounds to me like they took reasonable precautions. If security was so bad that you knew they had guards posted on the tents while your were gone, maybe you should have taken some more active precautions such as taking the equipment with you. I'm not blaming you at all, but what I am saying is that thefts happen everywhere and it is not always someone's fault, except for the thief's. In this case, I wouldn't put it past your PH. Again, sorry to hear about your hunt and you certainly have plenty to complain about even excluding the theft.

Thanks for the report.

That was not a hunt - it was a fleecing.

As far as to what the contract may or may not say about stolen equipment, to me that is not what matters. What happened here sounds like the theft was perpetrated by someone in the camp. The "guard" provided a false sense of security, and I can just hear it now: "Don't bother lugging all that stuff around. It will be safe in your tent".

I dont see what reason you had to leave anyone a tip except maybe the staff that helped you. Sounds like you had a bad deal all the way around.

I am really sorry to hear about your experience.

Having things get stolen from your tent, and being lumbered with what seems to be a totally incompetent PH, sure takes the cake though.

I have hunted in several countries, and the only one I have seen guards posted by our tents was in Tanzania.

We have never had anything go astray.

But, I understand there has been occasions where visitors have come into camp and walked away with goods belonging to others.

The way I look at it, you are in a hunting camp far away from anyone, and the camp manager IS responsible for the security of the camp.

There is no two ways about it.

Is the client expected to have everything he has sitting next to him at the dinner table?

Generally, as a hunter comes back to camp, he showers, gets cleaned up, leaves his rifles and other equipment in his tent when he goes to join the rest of those in the camp to the mess tent.

We hunted Mahenge North the last year before Adam got it.

We had a great hunt, and shot all the buffalo we had licenses for.

Our Hunt Report On Mahenge North

Rumor had it that after we left, the concession got hammered. Especially the buffalo population.

That is a horror story and I am truly sorry to hear about it.

I generally don't like to comment before hearing both sides, but I will say these things.

First, yours is not the first extremely negative report on that particular PH that I have read on these forums and otherwise heard about. One bad report I can attribute to personality conflict. Multiple reports and I start thinking the guy's a loser. I would not hunt with him, I know that.

Second, no one should have to worry about theft of his possessions in a remote Tanzanian hunting camp. I am surprised that you were not made whole. IMHO, you should have been.

Third, the mistreatment of your buffalo trophy by the PH and his crew was stupid and inexcusable.

And finally, I would have thought better of Adam Clements and Mark Young, but your safari seems to have realized virtually all of the drawbacks of hunting in Tanzania with a suitcase operation on a sublet concession: unmotivated or unscrupulous contract personnel, unreliable equipment and overshot game.

If there is another side to this, I would love to hear it, but on the facts as you present them, I don't blame you for being upset and making this public.

quote:

Second, no one should have to worry about theft of his possessions in a remote Tanzanian hunting camp. I am surprised that you were not made whole. IMHO, you should have been.

I have never been concerned about security for my property in the bush. Where was the camp manager? PH? I would think this is the responsibilty of the Outfitter.

I looked hard at this exact hunt about a year ago. I was led to beleive, at the time, that Paul was top notch and that the area was "unhunted" and had plenty of buff and lion.

I am suprised at this as I believe Mr. Young was trying to represent this area as it truly is or was. I would be interested in hearing the other side of the story.

On a theft, no doubt in my opinion, the camp operator/agent is responsible. They are his people and it is his camp.

Over the course of about 2 dozen hunting trips away from my home state I've been blessed to have only a very few problems on any of them. I directly attribute that to not going with any company or use any agent that trusted friends haven't employeed first. I would never book with an agent whom picks up his client base from someone else's message boards.
As for the stolen items IMO whomever you hunt with should be responsible for a fair reimbursement. Their posting a guard in camp is proof enough they felt either your safety or that of your belongings was in jepordy if they hadn't.
I'v hunted the Selous at times when I saw hundreds of buff an at others where I killed the only bull I saw in 10 days of tracking.

Man that's terrible. I saw that same episode on TV too, I couldn't believe it! What a way to crush someones dreams of a hunt of a lifetime. Hope you can get passed it. Unfortunately, there are a lot of crooks and bums in the world.

Bobby: Sorry to hear the outcome of this event was so poorly handled. You did get some coverage on the lost gear, but not nearly as much as you deserved. Thanks for letting others know how you were treated and it turned out; I know you have been working thru this for quite a while.

Hope this next hunt you've got planned makes up for it, and you have a great trip!

Boy, that hunt does indeed SUCK. Your PH's a total loser from the looks of things. Too bad the CATS didn't get to him as they seem to be lurking about.

I am surprised at the treatment received from the outfitter though. I'm very disappointed & surprised in that regard as well. jorge

Edited....

Sounds not like a PH, more like a UH = Unprofessional Hunter

WOW ... what a disaster. Everyone has a bad day from time to time, but you had yours all at once.

quote:

We left two envelopes, one for Paul and one for the staff and that is what I told them but they were really PO'd!

Did you actually Tip the PH?

Native PH bullshit, outfitter and booking agent bullshit, sounds like a hell of a good time.

Folks,

I'll leave adressing Bobby's comments one by one to Adam but I would like to say a couple of things.

First Bobby has called me a liar. In some circles that is a pretty serious accusation and not taken lightly. I think there are quite a number of members on AR that if they thought about it would dispute this.

Second the majority of posters commenting on this thread seem to be more than willing to beleive sometimes gleefully the very worst. Why is it so believable when provided with only one side of the story that the client was taken advantage of and the big bad safari company was only interested in getting his money? Nobody except Bobby and Adam Clements Safari Trackers has any first hand knowledge of any of these accusations.

Trial and execusion via internet. Gee whiz!

Mark

Well Mark you are right about hearing both sides ============= So lets hear it !!

The case for the prosecution seems damning, as such things tend to do.

Anything for the defense?? Are we being misled, the facts misrepresented??

Adam has only booked one hunt for me, in our dealings he was fair, honest and straight forward. Service was excellent. My trophies were well cared for and delivered within three months of my return home. I considered all of their Tanzania hunts and they of course pushed Masailand as their premium area, but also gave options on LU5 and Mahenge. They did not "over sell" Mahenge.

On the otherside of the coin, stolen equipment from your tent is unacceptable and clearly on Adams' feet in terms of responsibility for camp and staff.

It seems that Paul Horsley has had enough bad reports (JJ Miller and this event) to question his ability as a PH. Not worthy of the investment.

My opinion only.

Hugh

Silence speaks volumes...

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Folks,

I'll leave adressing Bobby's comments one by one to Adam but I would like to say a couple of things.

First Bobby has called me a liar. In some circles that is a pretty serious accusation and not taken lightly. I think there are quite a number of members on AR that if they thought about it would dispute this.

Second the majority of posters commenting on this thread seem to be more than willing to beleive sometimes gleefully the very worst. Why is it so believable when provided with only one side of the story that the client was taken advantage of and the big bad safari company was only interested in getting his money? Nobody except Bobby and Adam Clements Safari Trackers has any first hand knowledge of any of these accusations.

Trial and execusion via internet. Gee whiz!

Mark

Mark you way oversold the area to us. After a few times talking with you on the phone and how pushy you were with us I wanted to deal directly with Adam. You know there were other guys on here who were considering going on this hunt with me and they didn't go partly because of you just so you know. I trusted Adam Claments reputation before I went on this trip. I even went to SCI in Reno to talk with him personally at the booth. You did tell us the size of the Buffalo correctly and we had no problem hoping to get 36-38" bulls. We saw NO impala and 6 wildebeest cows. Those were the animals we wanted. We made no criteria nor did we have high expectations set for large trophy sized animals...just mature specimens. I was not a lone hunter in camp since my friend Richard M. was also on the hunt as you know so it is not just a "I said...he said" situation. Richard never even had a shot opportunity the whole trip! Adam wasn't there in camp but he is responsible for providing a safe environment for his clients. I did not go to camp expecting that I should have to watch my belongings every moment of the day. I thought it was odd to have the guard posted and Paul assured us that the camp was safe. He said other camps had problems but they had not so it was just a precaution. Anton actually tracked the two theives movements, where they walked, where one stood watching and where one leaned against the tree next to the tent before he entered it. We also should have been warned to stow our valuables better if they knew they might not be safe. I didn't even make a huge deal of it at the time because I didn't want our hunt ruined by this event. I could have thrown a big hissy fit as some might but they were all things which could be replaced. Heck I didn't even turn in an insurance claim and "Blank" knows my agent too.

I'm not going to get in a big pi$$ing contest with you. I posted MY experience with the company you represent. I see you always posting if a hunt is discounted to "beware" or when someone here has a poor hunt that they "should have [gone with you guys] instead" to have a good hunt. In my experience with you guys was pretty poor.

It took Adam 6 months to finally get me the money back that he did. I was figuring I was getting blown off after the 4-5th month. I waited a whole YEAR to post of my bad experience with Adam Clements' company. I didn't just come home and start posting bad things about our trip. I'm a pretty calm person and I was giving Adam the opportunity to make things right. Richard really got the bad screwing! (and he's more mellow than I am!)

quote:

Originally posted by DC300:
Silence speaks volumes...

I was kinda thinking the same thing.

I was in camp with your ph. I was hunting with his brother Charles Horsley. I also saw the TV show where the hunter did not get his buff. Every thing I saw of Paul he was honest back in 05. I never hunted with him. I think the world of his brother Charley.
Adam: I was sold a leopard hunt in Zim by Adam in Oct.03 It was also oversold, 110 degrees. We got nothing. I was promised one PH got the 3rd string guy. I later learned that is the worst time of the year to go. I was told go back and if you don't shoot one its free. The problem Adam never told my ph Wayne Clark. We did not get a cat but I paid Wayne, he had no clue of Adam's promise.
I also booked a cancel lion hunt with Wendell at Bundu before Adam took over. Adam came to came while I was there, demanded Charley Horsely come to camp in the middle of the day and he inspected the truck to "make sure we did not take the truck off the road" Adam did everything is his power to make it difficult for me to get my lion so he could sell it. There are many other issues that I will not go into but I will NEVER BOOK WITH HIM AGAIN!!!
By the way once Adam was gone Charley paid no attention to Adams bull shit rules and I GOT MY LION THANKS TO PAUL'S BROTHER CHARLEY. We took that truck everywhere. Adam fired Charley after the hunt, I guess because we got the lion he wanted to sell to someone else

I am truly sorry you had these problems maybe Paul has changed his colors I don't know.

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:

quote:

Originally posted by DC300:
Silence speaks volumes...

I was kinda thinking the same thing.

To be fair we should allow some time for all parties concerned to weigh in, it's a mite previous to be measurin' out rope.

My only experience with Mark and Adam is when I booked my first Africa hunt with them two years ago, for Nov 2008. When I decided that my savings plan was not keeping pace as I had planed. I also decided that I wanted my kids to come with me. So I started to look in to a less expensive plains game hunt. When I informed Mark of my wish to change plans, he became pushy and rude. He tried to keep pushing hunts on me that cost the same or more than the Tanzania hunt. I only had the hunt booked for a few months and when I pulled out completely they insisted in keeping $1700.00 of my deposit for office and paperwork fees. I found it hard to believe they had that much into it; my hunt was still two years out. But I let it go and moved on.
Turns out that I should have had more patients with my savings plan, it worked out great. And I just got back from an incredibility fun adventure with my wife and kids. We made some genuine life time friends in Namibia. I will post a hunt report very soon. My gut instinct was telling me to move on away from Mark and from what we read here I am glad I followed it.

I did call about 6 of their referances. They were all positive. I will give them that.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Folks,

I'll leave adressing Bobby's comments one by one to Adam but I would like to say a couple of things.

First Bobby has called me a liar. In some circles that is a pretty serious accusation and not taken lightly. I think there are quite a number of members on AR that if they thought about it would dispute this.

Second the majority of posters commenting on this thread seem to be more than willing to beleive sometimes gleefully the very worst. Why is it so believable when provided with only one side of the story that the client was taken advantage of and the big bad safari company was only interested in getting his money? Nobody except Bobby and Adam Clements Safari Trackers has any first hand knowledge of any of these accusations.

Trial and execusion via internet. Gee whiz!

Mark

Mark,

The Internet works both ways.

You seem to be quite happy to use the Internet to sell your hunts, and enjoy it when a client comes back and raves about his experience.

So why are you upset that someone - who seems - by all intents and purposes had a night mare hunting with you.

Would it not be better to address his points one by one?

Problems can arise on a hunt, there is no doubt about that.

What differentiate a good outfitter from a bad one is how these problems are solved.

How many times have we heard it here that one should use an American outfitter just to guarantee they keep their words?

How many times have we heard it that some American outfitters do not pay their PHs for months after the hunt has been concluded?

This despite the fact that they have received all the money up front?

So if you think this report was not correct, both you and Adam are free to post your answers.

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:

quote:

Originally posted by DC300:
Silence speaks volumes...

I was kinda thinking the same thing.

Well, probably not since as of graybirds post, less than 24 hours had passed since the begining of this thread. As if I would know what he's doing, but I'd suspect Adam and the PH in question are currently hunting in Africa and probably don't have AR readily available on their computer screen.

Even here in back water Dillingham when a relationship goes bad, there is usually one side of the story that dramaticallly opposes the other side of the story, and the truth,......................well, this is Dillingham or maybe even the internet, whats truth got to do with anything!

I don't know anything about Adam Clements or his hunting company, but I do know Mark fairly well and have found him to be honest and honorable. I trusted him enought to pay him to book my first safari last year and had such a wonderful experience I booked again thru him to hunt in Africa one year from now.

Duxdog's experience? Well I of course just couldn't comment as I wasn't there. As a reasonable and somewhat experienced adult I'd think it foolish to assume anything other than what he related is his side of the story. Hard to imagine that Adams side would not wildly differ if for no other reason than thats how it usually goes.

Hey, since we're prone to taking one side of the story as Gospel, this past June I caught no less than a Bakers Dozen 114# King Salmon, married the entire years supply of Playboy Playmates, (yes I am a Poligamist,) shot, tagged but didn't enter into the record book my 35"skull 14' square brown bear, (had a rug like a Mink,) and I have a guaranteed opportunity on a 97" spread bull moose for this fall.

Hey Dux, I don't mean to slight you, I am very sorry you had a rotten time. I hope you go again and have the time of your life. I find the posters that say, "You've had 5 minutes, we demand a rebuttal!" to be a little full of themselves, thus my sarcasm.

I hunted that area with Paul in 2006. Have posted a hunting report.

Some small comments ... not saying that this hunt wasn't a problem as it obviously was ... but perhaps a different perception.

Security was provided in the camp. There was a fella in a tree stand maybe 50 feet from my tent. Didn't bother me ... we had lion and hyena in camp different nights, and it was reported that there had been buff very near the camp the previous week. Security made sense to me.

The area near the Selous was where I took my buff. We popped off the road and parked when we saw the tail end of a herd going into the trees on the right side. We parked and tracked the herd on foot. There was a radio dead zone between us and the camp. We could talk to the second driver in the truck but not the camp. The driver and game scout in the truck could talk to the camp but we couldn't.

Anton (who really is the real deal) walked back to the truck along with Paul from where we took the buff. We had a "visiting" PH with us as well and he and I stayed. Darned sure took a while.

Paul strongly suggested that the tipping process be done face-to-face with me giving each person his or her due. He did not want anyone on staff to feel that his hands had been in the till.

Your hunt was different from mine.

The concerned P H has a reputation which precedes him, what a scum and low life, fit for lion bait
Daniel

quote:

Originally posted by 458Lottfan:
My only experience with Mark and Adam is when I booked my first Africa hunt with them two years ago, for Nov 2008. When I decided that my savings plan was not keeping pace as I had planed. I also decided that I wanted my kids to come with me. So I started to look in to a less expensive plains game hunt. When I informed Mark of my wish to change plans, he became pushy and rude. He tried to keep pushing hunts on me that cost the same or more than the Tanzania hunt. I only had the hunt booked for a few months and when I pulled out completely they insisted in keeping $1700.00 of my deposit for office and paperwork fees. I found it hard to believe they had that much into it; my hunt was still two years out. But I let it go and moved on.

That's enough for me. I think that's outrageous.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Mark,

The Internet works both ways.

You seem to be quite happy to use the Internet to sell your hunts, and enjoy it when a client comes back and raves about his experience.

So why are you upset that someone - who seems - by all intents and purposes had a night mare hunting with you.

Would it not be better to address his points one by one?

Problems can arise on a hunt, there is no doubt about that.

What differentiate a good outfitter from a bad one is how these problems are solved.

How many times have we heard it here that one should use an American outfitter just to guarantee they keep their words?

How many times have we heard it that some American outfitters do not pay their PHs for months after the hunt has been concluded?

This despite the fact that they have received all the money up front?

So if you think this report was not correct, both you and Adam are free to post your answers.

Spot on.

There will always be some issues that crop up on any hunt - that is hunting. What distinguishes a good experience from a bad one is how these issues are dealt with.

And, I think there are more than a few people out there that do not bother to report bad hunts. A bad report does not make for great reading, first of all. Second, as we have seen here and other places time and time again, a bad report is inevitibly met with a response that absolutely trashes the hunter. His expectations were not realistic. He was not in shape. He hunts in stilletto heels.

There are those of us, like myself, who are still looking for our first experience hunting in Africa. And there are those of us, like myself, that will probably only have one opportunity to hunt Africa. Financial and job issues, family committments and obligations, health and physical limitations, are a fact of life for many, if not most of us, reading these boards.

So, there are more than a few people that will indeed count an African hunt as the hunt of a lifetime. One shot to soak in the entire experience.

Hunting Africa is a major financial committment, and most of us won't be able to say, well, we'll get 'em next time.

Is the one time hunter shuffled to the back of the priority list in favor of the wants of the guy that goes every or every other year? Is the repeat customer given preferential areas and game selection over the guy that will never come back?

Booking a safari in a place thousands of miles away with no kn owledge of the area or the personnel requires a MAJOR leap of faith. You are turning over years worth of savings to hunt with a PH and staff you don't know or barely know, and rely on these people to honor their word.

We don't know the areas. We don't know the game concentrations. We have an idea but don't really know the patterns and behavior of the game involved. For all that, plus our security and well being, we rely on people that claim to be experienced in such matters and know what we do not.

When someone "oversells" an area or a hunt, they are building unrealistic expectations and creating a phantom experience that is doomed to disappoint from the start. When even the minimal expectations of professionalism, safety and security are not met, the dream of a lifetime becomes a recurring nightmare.

So, when someone provides their honest assessment of a bad experience, it is vital information to most of us here. Most folks seem reluctant to talk about negative experiences, and based on the shoot the messenger tactic that is all too predictable, I can see why.

There was sufficient detail in the report posted here to set off the alarm bells. And it is timely information gieven the fact that there are those peddling this same area as "Tanzania on the Cheap".

People will read the other side when that response comes. But, if the "other side" does nothing more than trash the hunter and provides no credible detail in support of their response, any such response will only serve to further confirm the suspicions that already exist.

If you want to hoist yourself on your own petard, knock your self out. It appears to me that the groundwork has already been laid for this approach, with an accusation that the hunter called the outfitter a "liar". It is not a lie if that is the man's opinion. And from the sound of it, it is a valid opinion indeed.

Thanks Jim for eloquently capturing the situation. When I read the initial post, I couldn't help but think - this is a straightforward report, stripped of inflamatory rhetoric that provides useful information to any who are considering booking a similar hunt. Hunting in Africa IS dependent on word-of-mouth advertisement. The outfitter, PH and all other principals benefit directly and substantially from good reports - and SHOULD suffer the consequences from critical reports when things aren't done right.

As critical readers, most forum members here are easily able to discern when lady luck frowns on us from those times when subterfuge or lack of preparedness creates bad outcomes.

I would hope that the complaints lodged would (at a minimum) spur a critical self evaluation of the process from top to bottom - and perhaps some corporate re-organization is in order...


Thank you Dukxdog, for laying it out.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Folks,

I'll leave adressing Bobby's comments one by one to Adam but I would like to say a couple of things.

First Bobby has called me a liar. In some circles that is a pretty serious accusation and not taken lightly. I think there are quite a number of members on AR that if they thought about it would dispute this.

Second the majority of posters commenting on this thread seem to be more than willing to beleive sometimes gleefully the very worst. Why is it so believable when provided with only one side of the story that the client was taken advantage of and the big bad safari company was only interested in getting his money? Nobody except Bobby and Adam Clements Safari Trackers has any first hand knowledge of any of these accusations.

Trial and execusion via internet. Gee whiz!

Mark

That does not strike me as the response of a falsely accused man.

I am culling you out of my herd of potential used car salesmen.

Greetings,

Interesting post.

Can someone define "oversold" - not sure what that means.

I must admit that most of these hunts that are being discussed are beyond my means however I have hunted three times in Africa and three times in Alaska.

Adios

Sport

It's always disappointing to hear stories like this. The financial and emotional investments we make in our safaris are much, much more than simply making a purchase. Most of us are investing in an experience. If we buy a TV that doesn't work, we can return it. A wonderful, life-long, dreamed-of safari is an experience that we take to our grave. So is a spoiled one.

Regrettably, many people in the hunt booking business don't understand, or have forgotten that. Certainly not all, but some.

I once found myself in the middle of an outfitter and agent over the agent's commission. I had made inquiry about the outfitter to the agent, who turned out to be of no help. I did my own research and went on to book a hunt directly through the outfitter. The agent resurfaced to demand a commission. Conversely, while working with an agent on a North American hunt, the agent refered me to another agent who represented an outfit he thought I might be interested in. I eventually booked with the original agent largely because of the interest he showed in me getting the "experience" I was looking for.

My safari experience is so far limited to 6 safaris in 3 different countries. A pittance in comparison to some of you. All but one have been wonderful. The single bad experience was eventually reconciled, but it took almost 3 years and a great deal of effort on my part to make it happen. In the process I was subjected to personal attacks and efforts were made to obfuscate and appologize for the acts and omissions of the responsible parties.

Thus far for my African trips I have used one agent for the first two safaris and had no problems. Since that time I have done extensive research and expended a great deal of time in attempting to understand what I need to know as a client in order to protect myself. I now book all my own hunts, and with the one exception, I've had very good luck and great trips.

I have made inquiry with a variety of agents in the course of my research. I am currently in communication with one about a Botswana trip and will likely follow up with him soon. A good product doesn't need to be hyped, pushed, or otherwise "sold". The good camps, PH's, outfitters and areas are booked and sold years in advance. "Deeply discounted" products of ANY KIND, be they hunts or hard goods should be viewed with a great deal of skepticism.

I have found that the safari booking industry is anchored, for the most part, by a few very fine, honest, professionals who aquit themselves and their industry with honor and integrity. And then there are the others. As clients we must be aware, and do as much as we can to learn the ropes and protect ourselves at all times. And we must also be good clients who keep our part of the deal.

As for the original thread, a great deal of credibility must be given to someone who has first made efforts to fight his own battle and is then willing to go onto the Intenet, with his picture, and simply state a pattern of fact that represents his experience.

As for the matter of the stolen items from the client's tent, Adam Clements Safaris owes this man a full refund. To take another position is indefensible.

And as previously stated, the silence from the other side is deafening.

Here's hoping your next safari is the best yet.........

From my own personal experience I am very surprised to read about Dukxdog's negative experience with Adam Clements and Mark Young.
It is an unsettling hunt report to me because I didn't have anything like that kind of safari. I don't doubt Duksdog's intergrity or perception but here are my own experiences.

I have known Mark Young for about 4 years now and can state that he has been honest to the core and openly frank about what to expect on safari. No, I don't have vast first hand knowledge of safaris (plural), only one, December 2006. He listened to what I wanted in my hunt of a lifetime and provided just what I asked and paid for. He was never pushy, but I relied on his African experience to make recommendations. He wasn't and isn't bashful about saying what he thinks. That is what booking agents are supposed to do, right? I discovered him off the internet and called him because we are neighbors down the road 140 miles away in Cody. We continue to talk hunting from time to time and I will continue to listen to what he might have to offer. Like most of you, I am always plotting, scheming, and saving for another hunt. Safari Trackers isn't his only company client.

Paul Horsley was my PH in Lobo concession on the Masai Steppe. We had one heck of an adventure and Paul was professional in every sense of the word. Since he's half Massai and half Irishmen, I felt I got a little different perspective on things west of Arusha. My hunt report is posted on AR for those interested. As any PH should, we stood shoulder to shoulder one one pissed off buffalo and a nasty snake in the long grass. I don't have any reason NOT to hunt with him again.

Per recommendations from Paul, Wayne Clark (the other PH), and Chantel, Adam's wife, I gave two envelopes to Paul the day we left for home. One was his tip and the other was to be distributed to the camp staff. I made individual tips to the trackers, skinners, and Tanzanian game scout. Every one parted company with peace and love in their heart and vows to keep in touch.

I met Charles Horsely, Paul's brother, in the chaos that is downtown Arusha and found him personable. He was fresh out of the Selous and getting ready to return. I knew that Adam had fired him, but until now, I have never heard an explanation as to why. Nevertheless, he didn't know that I was gazing at him with question marks behind the greeting, and did this mysterious flaw run in the family. At least for the next 10 days, the other Horsely did a good job and earned his tip. Never mind the pros and cons of the culture of tipping.

We had a Massai guard at night in the camp at Lobo. Scared the shit out of me one night as I was headed for bed. He was in the shadows but dressed in full warrior regalia. I thought it was to impress the middle aged fat butt bwana from the U.S. Never thought about theft. Mehenge may be very different in that regard. I have no way of comparing. However, The $1100 differential for equipment stolen is a pitence campared to the amount of ill will and poor public relations rising on the forum against Adam Clements and Safari Trackers. This wasn't a case of terminal stupidity by leaving it laying out at a restaurant, hotel, or airport. A client in a specific company's safari camp in the bush shoud not have to worry about theft. Wild animals and disease, yes. Social improprieties, no. PAY DUKXDOG FOR HIS LOST EQUIPMENT. Geez!

This is August, and no doubt Adam and company are in the bush hunting. But in this new and wonderful medium of the world wide web, I'm sure he seeing the dialog. I fully expect him to check in on this in due time with his side of the story.

I don't know Adam or Chantel well at all, but they treated me honestly and courteously. Ditto for Mark Young and Paul Horsely.

I'll weigh in here simply because I spoke with Mark more than 18 months ago about booking my trip to Zambia. He, of course, represents Johnny DuPlooy and his group and since I REALLY wanted a leopard, I did my checking and came to the conclusion that Zambia (and Johnny) was the way to go.
Since the beginning, I have been treated straightforward and professionally. I actually had to move my hunt up about 30 days due to some business comitments (this with 9 months before the hunt) and they were able to acommodate me. I cannot speak about Adam, as I met and spoke to him only once....all of my dealings have been with Mark and their office assistant, Jamie. Jamie is absolutely FABULOUS to deal with. All in all, I'm very happy.
Since I leave in less than one week, I will save my "return" comments for just that time.
I know there are 2 sides to every story and also that perception is not always reality. Obviously the gentleman thinks he was wronged and I feel that Adam and/or Mark should converse with him....privatly. I am a business owner and there have been occasions where not all of my clients have been happy. It was then my responsibility to sort that out to the best of my ability...and willingness.

The theft of belongings is VERY sad. I never gave it a thought when I was on previous trips to SA and ZIM.....maybe I'll be more careful this time.

I am satisfied, to date, in working with Mark and Jamie....should for any reason that change, I will post that experience also.

I hope and pray for a mutually respectable and satisfying closing to this situation.

Gary
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NRA Lifer
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