Gents,

After reading the 375/404 comparisons on recoil, which cartridge or load, is your limit?

Give us the round and rifle.

Roger QSL

Somethign close to a hot loaded Gibbs. 600gr bullet at 2400fps. Depends on what day it is.


Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
Somethign close to a hot loaded Gibbs. 600gr bullet at 2400fps. Depends on what day it is.


Keith

About the same for me. The 500 A-Square with 600-grainer at 2500 fps in a 10.75 rifle is more than enough for me.

When you feel an electrical shock down your arm and your trigger hand goes numb, you know you have jarred your brachial plexus enough for a while. Not conducive to rapid, well executed followup shots.

This is why I decided the .505 or .510 is big enough for me.

Still light enough to be easily portable.
Makes holes more than big enough to let the blood out fast enough.
Still fast enough with a good bullet to penetrate better than ALL of the bigger bores.
Recoil manageable at adequately penetrating bullet weight for caliber, if velocity is kept to the "perfect" velocity.

Saeed's hot-loaded .577 Tyrannosaur was about as much recoil as I ever care to absorb.

The .550 Express was nowhere near as obnoxious.

George

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
Somethign close to a hot loaded Gibbs. 600gr bullet at 2400fps. Depends on what day it is.


Keith

Same for me but the biggest I care to hunt DG with is a hot lott.

I have fired close to 4 dozen rounds of .577 Trex over the course of 3 weekends.

It was a scoped rig that weighed 14 pounds and had a muzzle brake.

After I learned to hook my left thumb over the top of the barrel and resist the torque with a death grip, the rifle quit flying off to the right side of the bench. Then I could shoot it to sub-MOA for 3 shots at 100 yards, with 750 and 900 grain loads at medium to maximum velocities. See Mitch Carter's load data on Saeed's .577 Trex load data page. That is what I was shooting.

It is silly to have that much torque and weight in a rifle to carry in the field, and less penetration than can be had for less shoulder punishment.

No muzzle brakes allowed.

No rifle over 12 pounds allowed.

See how silly anything over .505 and .510 caliber is?

Anything over .510 caliber is just a dud or sign of BORE ENVY.

OUCH!! to all of you.

The .500 A-Square with 600 grs bullets at 2400 fps was the heaviest thumper at the Rocky Big Bore shoot and I think that was just about enough for me. My right thumbs tried to embed itself in my nose permanently.

Frans

The most obnoxious rifle I've ever fired was a hot loaded .450 Rigby.

It seemed far worse than the .500 Jefferys (multiple) that I've played with.

After 5 rounds I started to get a severe headache but I wasn't smart enough to stop at that point. After 10 more rounds I actually started to see double and called it quits after that.

Me like, no have good smarts sometimes...

well, the 550s aren't as bad as one might think. My 550 express is a hair less than 11#, and a 700gr at 2130, well, it's a hand full, but with some practice, it can be mastered and shot at the speed of any other turnbolt...

the 550 magnum is about my personal top, for the ability to have an unbraked sub metric ton rifle.

However, the 470mbogo, at fullhouse loads, in a 9.5# gun WILL get your attention.

I think the "perfect" kickabout rifle, in a bigbore, is about 8.5 EMPTY, holds 3, can be scoped, and the recoil velocity is UNDER 25fps., with at least 2050fps with at least a .290 SD.... 21-23" barrel, and CORRECT FIT for the user.

it's fun that way

jeffe

IF! Bauska ever gets my barrel to me, I will have a report on my 550 Gibbs wildcat. I think about a 715-750gr bullet at 2400fps in a twelve-pound rifle with a mercury recoil reducer in the butt stock will find my outer limits. I just hope The Force is with me. Of course, it may be the Dark Side calling me. I enjoyed shooting a friend's 12lb 505 Gibbs. 600gr @2278fps

Rich
DRSS

.585 Nyati is as big as I would want to shoot.......................and for me it takes mental concentration, RIPs the .50 cals are about where sensibleness stops and stunts begin, but...................if I where to build my .585 Nyati again it would weigh 12.5 pounds be in African style and would be used for 750 gr at 2150 fps same as it was meant to be ie; .577 nitro duplicate.

650's at around 2650 fps gets your attention.

ruger No1 458 lott, shooting full power 500gr loads, my dentist loves .me..... thats my limit

Haven't hit the max yet.

My .500 A-Square with 600 grain bullets at 2,500 fps is still plenty manageable for me.

The recoil numbers for that load are impressive - well over 100 ft.-lbs. And I have pretty much mastered it. Of course, I have thought about going with a bigger bore from time to time.

But the thing is, I am a hunter more than a shooter. And after I literally paralyzed an elephant with my .500, using a 600 grain solid bullet at 2,300 fps, I just can't see any need to go bigger than that - and so I probably won't.

For me, nothing that produces more recoil than a .600 nitro loaded to original specs.
And that, in a properly stocked and weight rifle.
I've never been much for the "new stuff". Although it is intriqueing, and I've pondered the .600OK, and the .550 magnum, express, and the .500a-2. All of these have promise to be great cartridges. But, I simply like to stick to the old ones. I suppose I'm a traditionalist, and a little behind the times.
Even so, the .600 is my limit.
I'm not going to punish myself beyond that.
Bullet placement is key anyway.
I would be VERY tempted if a .577 t-rex rifle were in front of me to try it out, but I just really don't know if I'd try it. I would like to keep my flinch level steady at the .600 and under. I must admit, I've fired some big rifles, BUT, these new creations, those that push the limits of human ability; sometimes those seem too just, to my pshcy anyway, be, if-ok, sometimes they make my skin crawl-there, I said it.hehe Being as honest as I can be,--some of these new ones seem to be WAYYYYY over the limit of my small frame. This, and the fact that recovery time is of great importance. I don't want to make a first shot and have to take a nap, eat lunch, have an aspirin, and then come back to the same spot and finish a buff that is by some miracle of God still in full charge.

When much younger and dumber, while in the military, going to college, and working part time for a gun dealer in San Antonio, I would zero rifles for people after scopes were mounted. We sold a heck of a lot of .378 and .460 Weatherby magnums. I figured these were my limit. I'm not saying I wouldn't shoot one shot from someone's rifle, but no more. I don't need to develop a flinch, or have anything to prove by shooting monster guns. My current .375H&H is fun even with maximum loads. A .45-70 Marlin with maximum loads (or beyond, I was still young) really got my attention. If it does the job, I'm happy.

And furthermore, I have not had any surgery on my neck, shoulders or eyes, and would like to keep it that way.

My T-rex shooting with 14-pound braked gun and a Past pad: this made the rearward recoil a non issue even with Maximum loads.

It is still a problem with torque! Right hand twist barrel will jump to the right, besides the muzzle rise.

Shoot that buffalo charging at you from the north, and your rifle will be pointing east for the followup shot.

No good for fast shooting.

It seems that torque is a minimal thing with .505 and .500 max loads with bullets of 600 grains or less. Much more sensible. For many reasons.

With my CZ550 458 Lott has 74 Ft Lbs of recoil shooting a 500 gr bullet at 2266 FPS and I shot a three shot group that was 1.5 " at 100 yds off a bench with open sights.

What do you thing a 12g 1oz slug out of a 6# shotgun would be equal to. That is the hardest kicking gun i've had the chance to shoot and it wasn't bad at all, so i'm guessing i could handle bigger. Just wish I had the money to afford a big bore rifle. Then I could really test my limits.

Slugs out of 6# 12-gauges are decidedly painful. The recoil is about the same as a .460 Weatherby in a decent weight rifle.

I remember when I was a teenager, I had a 6# Stevens with a 3" chamber. I fired a slug from a squatting position and ended up in a standing one from the recoil. When standing, I had to put my left foot forward and it would still be lifted off the ground.

"Low brass" 1 ounce to 1-1/8 aren't bad in that weight gun. About the same as a .30-06. High brass 1-1/4 feel about like a .338 or so. When you get up into the 3" magnums, you move up into big-bore recoil fast with increasing shot weight. Also try some 1-7/8 ounce 3" shot shells for a real eye opener.

I can probably shoot any hand held cannon that is of an authorized caliber, but that is not the problem.

The problem is which one can I shoot with the same degree of thought as I can shoot a 223 Remington.

That would be a 404, 416 or even a .470 at the far end perhaps.

The .470 is starting to bother me on the range but not in the hunting field..

If I have to concentrate on the gun, saying to myself it won't kick much, then its probably not worth my hunting with it.

Therefore I am going to be true to myself and call the 40 calibers my intelligent limit, I enjoy shooting the 404, 416 and 450-400 and I can shoot them all day long as many times as I want, not so with the larger calibers.

as far as felt recoil, i guess that my .338 win mag m70 feels greater than my .416 rem mag , my .375 h&h, or my .458..... the .458 with 510 gr sp's gets your attention, when shot from the bench... but is quite tame shot standing....

I have shot the 700 nitro, the 600 overkill, 585 wells magnum and a 600 nitro pistol. The pistol is approaching the limit with the full house loads. I have not shot the 600 overkill at 2400 ft/sec,but I would say that has to be close to my max.

I'll limit my my discussion to those calibers suitable for hunting big game up to and including elephant. I can shoot a 458 Lott loaded with 550 grain bullets at 2,150 fps from the bench but it takes all my will power to do it accurately and it does cause a flinch to develope if I shoot more that 10 rounds. I find "that" flinch is a very difficult one to get over. I have not had any problem with it when I have used it in the field on elephant or buff. I really don't care to try to go higher to find one that will make me flinch in the Jesse.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by The Maz:
Slugs out of 6# 12-gauges are decidedly painful. The recoil is about the same as a .460 Weatherby in a decent weight rifle.

...

I hear these things several times, and , well, it's just not even close.

my stoeger coach gun is just a hair under 6.4#, and shooting the winchester 1950fps slugs in them is NOTHING like shooting a 460. Perhaps like shooting a 450 marlin (which it more or less is) in a light gun, but it's still in the 375HH to 416 rigby (depending on load)


There is ZERO comparison between any 12ga COMMERICAL ammo, in any weight gun, and anything larger than a 458 winmag.

jeffe

I don't know what my limit is. I just got my first double, a Merkel in 470. After my first range session I though I had meet my match.
I walked away bleeding and dizzy. I had put on a slip on recoil pad. It made the stock to long. Even standing it rocked me back, the pad was too soft, the rifle would get a running start, it would slip out the pad hitting my hand with that extra sharp trigger guard and very sharp double triggers. (Why would any maker of a $10,000 dollar rifle let it out the shop with edges that feel sharp from machining.)? I went home with my hand bleeding in two spots. The first thing to consider is how friendly is the rifle. Are there any sharp edges, is the weight ok for such a load, and is the scope set up to allow max use of eye relief. Is the LOP right. I have a 416 Rem. mag. on a mark X. I had put a Burris euro 30 mm scope on it. It has such a long rear eyepiece I could not slide it forward enough to make use of the 4" of eye relief. The LOP was right. I went home bleeding more than once. I changed the scope no more problems. LOP has to be right. Too short you can't get away from the rifle, too long you give up to much leverage and can't hold the rifle down during recoil (you can't hold it steady either). The rifle has to balance and point right. If you add weight to the rear of the stock and get it out of BAL, you will feel less recoil on the shoulder, but the muzzle will flip up a little more and you may feel in more on the face. Straight stocks respond better to this than those with a lot of drop at the heel. My Merkel was muzzle heavy, with the slip on pad I noticed that the butt of the stock came up and off my shoulder to the right. I put a mag past pad on, with the extra long lop and soft slip on recoil pad the rifle just got a longer running start at me. I could not mount the rifle (there was more bleeding). Drop at heel is very important to how a gun feels in recoil. Straight stocks push the shoulder; drop at the heel slaps the face. The faster a rifle shoots it bullet, the faster the rifle recoils backwards,
The more I like a straight stock. I weigh 240lbs and notice a slap to the face more than a punch to the shoulder. The angle between the drop at the comb and at the heel is what it is all about, get it right the rifle comes up fast, the rifle sights are there, you don't have to hunt for them, you get a balance of push and slap. The drop at the comb sets it up for irons or a scope; the angle determines how it feels. Cast off, either sand it in or bend the stock to get what you need it. You don't want to try to bend your body to a hard kicker; the rifle has to come to you. I want enough cast off so the sight /scope align, I have a thick chest so I need a little extra at the toe (I just sand it in}. Your head should be straight up and down not bent over the stock.

The next thing to consider is the shooter. If I am in shape and have been weight training I can handle more recoil. How many well-aimed shots are required?
If I am shooting a 2- day 80 round per day match give me a 260. If you just need two or three well aimed and executed shots bring what you got, if it is a user-friendly rifle that fits me fairly well.

I have adjusted the LOP on the Merkel, installed a proper pad. I added two recoil reducers instead of dead weight that was supplied with the rifle. I added a little more weight to the rear of the stock (4 oz). The balance is just right. I took out a little down pitch when I installed the pad. I adjusted the trigger down to 3 3/4 lbs. At 6 lbs the rifle was just hard to shoot well, I could not concentrate on my hold when I had to work so hard on breaking the shot. I polished all the sharp edges. Has it came it was no fun to shoot even with a light load ( 375 gr cast & 77 grs RL15). Yesterday range session was real pleasant. I shot 30 rounds yesterday 10 out of a 9.3X74 and 20 from the 470. 6 shots off hand the rest from the bench. I am a little sore, back and hands mostly. Time to go back to the gym. Sorry for the long post, it was either type this post or go to work. It’s amazing how much I know when I don’t feel like working.

JD

I agree, a slap in the cheek is by far worse than a hit in the shoulder, my shoulder is recoil proof..

I like a bit of drop on a stock, I like to seperate the recoil between backward push and the upswing of the barrel, a little of both seems to work for me.

I notice my English bolt guns are the easiest to shoot, the straight stock that is so widely touted drives a gun back into me a bit much in the big bores.

A lot has to do with your phyical build as to how you will like your stock shapped. The other thing about a straight stock is you cannot get down on the iron sights without an effort, and then it will kick you in the cheek...With enough drop in the stock I am fine and I can shoot irons or a scope just fine with that drop by lifting my head just a tad for the scope.

I learned to shoot a scope with the old pre 64 Winchesters that had low combs and about the only scope around was the new Weavers, few folks in those days thought a scope was worth a flip, and it was the sign of a person who hadn't hunted much?

Learning to shoot scopes on low comb rifles was the best thing that ever happened to me, and I think that 3 point position is optional, but certainly isn't the only way to skin a cat. All my guns are iron sighted with scope mounts.

An 8 pound 450 Rigby is all the fun I can take. I much prefer my 375 H&H. I am not afraid of it and stuff falls over with one shot.

You really really don't want to know! The survival instinct definately kicks in at some point for everyone 900 grs at 2400fps in a 12 lb gun is just about there. .-Rob

Rob, I shot my 600 O.K. with 900 grain bullets up to 2325 ft/sec on sat. No problems, by the way all of AHR's 600's have a 9 groove barrel now, mine too.

speaking of big bore recoil, how was the 600 NE pistol shoot Bigdoggy?

My max has been shooting diesel dude's 9 & 3/4 pound ruger #1 in 577NE - built by Dave Caboth of WF Hein fame .

Max load (that I shot) was a 750 grain @ 2385 - three of those and I would get a bit daffy in the head .

This is why I shoot a 500A2 - more sensible for me at 11# - 600 grains @ anywhere from 2250 up will handle anything I hunt.
Plus, as RIP noted, no shoulder surgery or torn retinas, etc.

It was a hoot to torch off

Grixxer, The shoot went fine. I posted a little bit under single shot pistol. I shot both the mild and hot load in the 600 nitro. I did better than the range instructor that the gun flew back on. And that was the mild load! I held on both times, but I had a clue as to what I was doing. Then kamakazzii shot the 700 nitro double, then I shot some with the 600 overkill. I have videos and am trying to get them posted.I do not know how, but Kenneth1 is going to help me. Overall a very good day of shooting. No one got hurt. The video of me shooting the 600 pistol is sort of non eventful. It does kick alot,but no "flying in the air" or getting hit in the face with it. Hopefully we can get it posted in a day or two. It did get the arenoline going right before the hot load shot.

KMULEin AK, wow! 9450 ft.lbs is a pretty good whallop. My 585 wells magnum will throw a 750 grain bullet 2500ft/sec. but it weighs 14.25 lbs.so recoil is tolerable.

At this point the 416 Rem Is all I want and then some.

I had the pleasure/pain of shooting an old Weatherby 460 mag, no brake, port, or pad. The first thing I noticed was how light it felt in my hands; I knew I was in trouble. The owner had a box of 510 grain factory ammo minus two rounds, (I think thats how many the previous owner fired before selling it). I shot it 5 times and thought it had killed me. My arm ached from my shoulder to my fingers and I imagined having a heart attack wouldnt feel worse. My head felt like I had gone two rounds with Mike Tyson so I handed it back to the owner and told him to shoot and he said Hell No, not after watching it almost kill you.
Thats my story,
Eterry

quote:

Originally posted by The Maz:
Slugs out of 6# 12-gauges are decidedly painful. The recoil is about the same as a .460 Weatherby in a decent weight rifle.

I can "vouch" on the amount of recoil a 12 gauge slug in comparison with the .460 Weatherby Magnum. I have an Ithaca Model 37 "Featherlite" 12 gauge pump with 20" slug barrel. A couple of yeas ago I mounted a scope on it and just fired it three time and my shoulder was black & blue and so sore I couldn't rase my arm for a couple of weeks!! The 12 gauge Ithaca M-37's recoil made me think the time when I fired a .460 Weatherby (Two Times) the recoil, of the two, was very similar, with the 12 being more painful due to the shotguns low weight and NO recoil pad.

Off all the shotguns I have shot for game the Ithaca Model 37 is the one that kicks the most. I think it is a combination of weight and load. I now have a bear buster that is a single shot Savage with a 16" barrel and no recoil pad. Shooting a 2,2/3 - 1 oz. slug I think it is the gun that has hurt me the most. Although I consider this a DG gun....I don't think it an apples to apple to compare a shotgun to a rifle.

I think my CZ 550 in 416 Rigby is my limit. I have never shot any of the .458s but I did shoot a Johansen in 505 Gibb. It is definitely over my limit.

Let's see..

12ga
the "hottest" slug load I could find is 1oz (438 grains)at 1760FPS, assume 40gr of powder and a 6# gun...

recoil is a measely 49ft-lbs

a 458 lott, 9.5# gun
500gr bullet, 2300fps, 82gr, 9.5#,
79ft-lb

take that to 460 weatherby
500gr
2600fps
110 gr
9.5#

110 ft-lbs



I'll be happy to let anyone bring their slugs along and shoot them in my stoeger, with it's hard pad, and then shoot my 500 jeffe... 6.4# and 9.5# respectively.