quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

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Originally posted by Wink:
Since I've already got a rifle in .375 H&H, why would I buy a .375 Ruger?

Since I don't have a .375 and want one, why would I buy an H & H.

Very good question. So H&H lovers what's the sell?

Recently I wanted another 375. I already owned a Model 70 Right hand gun. Being left handed I wanted a LH rifle. After looking at Ruger's offering I ended up buying a LH CZ550 in 375 H&H. Had AHR upgrade the rifle. The total price was close to 3 times what the Ruger cost. (CZ is overcharging for the LH models)

Why? it is a classic cartridge, it has performed for nearly 100 years. Nothing wrong with the Ruger. Those two reasons justified spending an extra $1800.00. I do not care about 100 FPS either way.

In 2010 I will return to Zim with a 470 Nitro Double, a CZ 375 H&H, and a 7 by 57 Mauser. That will be a classic battery.

See, that logic I don't get. Why spend 1800$ more? That could have been more trophy fee's, or an extra day or two in the field instead of buying an already higher priced rifle, then having it worked over. Classic is nice and all...but so would a few extra animals or an upgrade on the plane.

Cannot explain the logic, it is how I feel. Again I am not bashing the Ruger, as I will probably buy one. Fortunately I can afford the extra cost, if not maybe the Ruger would be in the safe.

If I looked solely at cost there is a huge difference between my double and my Lott. The lott is stainless, synthetic stock, more powerful, carries more rounds. But I still own the double. It is what I enjoy.

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Why? it is a classic cartridge, it has performed for nearly 100 years.

Hopefully this is not the sole selling point...

For me it was enough. What I do not get is bashing the ruger round because it new or not needed, likewise bashing the H&H because it requires a longer action even though they have worked all these years. For me there is not enough difference in performance to sway me either way.

I have owned several .375 H&Hs. I have never owned a .375 Ruger. After I "discovered" the 9.3X62, I lost all interest in the .375 and sold my Ruger Safari Magnum in that caliber. When I want something that shoots fairly flat, I shoot 250 grain TSX bullets. Everything else gets a 286 grain Woodleigh. My Blaser loaded with a scope weighs in at less than eight pounds and has very little recoil. This is the cartridge I wish Ruger had picked up rather than "invent" a new .375 cartridge. Pair a 9.3X62 with a good heavy caliber double and you can hunt the world.

Been considering buying a DG rifle for awhile as I'm planning a trip to our "top end" to hunt buffalo . Nothing much new or used that I'd want to buy in .375 H & H or bigger under $2000 .
For less money I can buy a Ruger with a quality scope , bedding and trigger job and a better pad if it needs it.
More money to spend on my guided hunt and perhaps a bigger trophy.

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I can buy a Ruger with..., bedding and trigger job and a better pad

You can get a new Model70 or CZ550 both for around 1000 bucks in a true classic 375HH. Ammo available anywhere in the world. The M70 should be good to go right out of the box (as the ruger for that matter) but if you enjoy spending a few $$$ tweeking a gun than CZ should be your choice, 6 shots in the magazine. Try that with a Ruger.

OK, here's the deal. The Ruger comes in a shorter, handier package. The Winchester is a great rifle, but it is longer, and the H&H needs that extra barrel length. The CZ has all the right stuff, but is a tank; better suited as a anchor for a small sea craft.
The value of the Ruger is it's compact size and weight, coupled with a cartridge with the capability of the great H&H, but in a fast handling package. Which at least where I hunt as very important.
I also see a pattern of those that are condemming the Ruger, have not used the Ruger.
I was a supporter of the H&H, but have since used both, and now prefer the Ruger for the above reasons.
If I were building a classic rifle with nice wood and blue steel, it would be an H&H for sure. Then I could show it off to everyone and feel the nostalgia it has held since 1912.
But these days, when I go trompin around in the wet rain forrests, and sliddin down a steep cliff after big game, I will be packin my light weight, plastic stocked, stainless steel, camo painted Hillbilly rifle in a .375 Ruger, and not get too upset if I happen to stuff the barrel in the mud!
O' and here's an open invitation for any of you guys to come on a Elk or Bear hunt with me in the wet brush and deep blow down, with your very nostalgic and beautiful Westley Richards, chambered in .375 H&H.
Between the Ruger or H&H, I think there's a place for both.

Hell, are they still making that .375 Ruger? I would have thought it would have faded into obsolescence by now

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Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Hell, are they still making that .375 Ruger? I would have thought it would have faded into obsolescence by now

So, three years later.......

Anyone change their opinion on the 375 Ruger?

Check out the D'Arcy Echols blog showing Athol Frylink, the Zambian PH, who has already brought his 375 Ruger back for a new barrel.
The Ruger offers many of the same benefits of the 9.3x62 with the same power benefits of the old H&H round.
Ruger has already sold more 375 Rugers in the last five years than H&H has sold of their 375 rifles in the last 100 years !

Wow, 4 years after the prophesies of early demise, it is still selling like crazy here in my neck of the woods. Sold both my H&H's last year and will NEVER look back.

Quite a few see service as moose rifles here in my neeck of the woods.
Ammo and loading components are no problem.

I took mine to Namibia in 2011 and it did really well.
My PH fell in love with the light and handy rifle, and factory ammo was actually available in a gun shop in Windhoek.

Great rifle the African, great cartridge and I load mine with eighter Woodleigh or A-Frame.
Accuracy is also good, so what else is there to ask for ?

The H&H fans are still pissed about the 300 Win mag supplanting the 300 H&H and are makeing a last stand, and vainly hoping for different results, with the 375.

I just read the Dec 2012 issue of Successful Hunter magazine and it contained an article titled RIFLES IN ALASKA. It says "among guides and bear hunters, the new 375 ruger is rapidly supplanting the 375 H&H". It was written by some guy named Phil who lives up in that country. It was an interesting read.

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Originally posted by JCS271:
I just read the Dec 2012 issue of Successful Hunter magazine and it contained an article titled RIFLES IN ALASKA. It says "among guides and bear hunters, the new 375 ruger is rapidly supplanting the 375 H&H". It was written by some guy named Phil who lives up in that country. It was an interesting read.

He who uses a 458 Win Mag !!! LOL

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Originally posted by 505G:

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Originally posted by JCS271:
I just read the Dec 2012 issue of Successful Hunter magazine and it contained an article titled RIFLES IN ALASKA. It says "among guides and bear hunters, the new 375 ruger is rapidly supplanting the 375 H&H". It was written by some guy named Phil who lives up in that country. It was an interesting read.

He who uses a 458 Win Mag !!! LOL

I am not immune to the charm, and benefits, of the 375 as an all around bear rifle, but over the past third of a century I have been in a few too many close range dust-ups with really big bruins to completly quit my 458.

Phil,

In light of your adventures with Old Ephraim, it would be particularly interesting to hear you describe what a brown bear charge is like.

Phil

Having read a few of your poss, I know,
hence the LOL at the end.

Multiple guns in multiple calibres
for different situations.

The ironic thing is, most of my charges
from Buffalo or Scrub Bulls have been
with a 338WM in my hand !!! Just the
luck of the draw.

If I ever get a 375 it will be a 375 Ruger.

I load for all my rounds so I don’t really care if I can’t get factory ammo

The one thing that worries me is how long will they honor the round?

They have been in and out and in again for the 480R and then the 450 Marlin...

I hate to pick another orphan

Snake

quote:

Originally posted by temmi:
If I ever get a 375 it will be a 375 Ruger.

I load for all my rounds so I don’t really care if I can’t get factory ammo

The one thing that worries me is how long will they honor the round?

They have been in and out and in again for the 480R and then the 450 Marlin...

I hate to pick another orphan

Snake

I think you'll be pretty safe with the Ruger. It is one very nicely designed cartridge.

As for rifles with a long "H&H" magazine and bolt, they can be produced for the great Rigby cartridges or Weatherbys, assuming proper boltface.

Ruger case for 30 cals, Rigby case for 40's. Isn't that easy?

So when will they do a 338 Campfire/fulllength 338 Ruger?

The Ruger sells to the masses because it is a economical package. Many folks are going the "beater" path these days as they do not want to take the time to care for their guns (simply a tool). Makes a lot of sense in a Alaskan environment.
The Alaskan model has a 13.5" LOP which I suspect is a bit short in design as to make space for heavy clothing being used in its intended environment. Too short for a lot of people (LOP) including myself.
Used to be that a nice 375 H&H was a expensive proposition directed towards the well to do.
Ruger provided an offering to the general public. There are a lot more folks in the general public than the well healed these days.
McDonalds out sells nice steak houses...
I have a H&H and a Wea. so I will likely not puchase a Ruger however there is nothing wrong with it as long as it shoots straight.

I am so sorry,but in reality I fully believe the excact opposite is occuring.
The 375 Ruger is rising quickly, and the H&H will slowly go the way of the 416 Rigby.
Contrary to people on a board specializing in big bores such as this percieve even today the Rigby is almost unknown to 80% of hunters.
In 30 years I have never seen a factory box of ammo and only one CZ rifle.
This is what will eventually come of the H&H.
The Ruger,here in PA they cannot keep on the shelves. I have seen more factory Ruger 375 rifles in 1 year than factory 458's in 20 years.

What is considered the ideal barrel length for a 375 Ruger? Is it 20"?

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Originally posted by Scott King:
I'm just curious what "One of Us" thinks. I own the .375 Ruger and H&H, and for no particular reason I have completely lost interest in the Ruger.

My Ruger shoots accurately, I have no doubt it'd perform on par with the H&H, and is even CRF as opposed to my Remington H&H.

I had the option of taking either to Zimbabwe this year, took the H&H. I had the option of taking either moose hunting this year, took the H&H. Later this month I think I'll go with a friend to fill his winter moose tag and again will take the H&H.

Seems like about a year ago this forum was full of predictions of the death of the H&H due to the superior Ruger cartridge, your thoughts?

I didn't realize it ever had a blossom! Juat a way to sell some guns

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Originally posted by Colt Commander:
I am so sorry,but in reality I fully believe the excact opposite is occuring.
The 375 Ruger is rising quickly, and the H&H will slowly go the way of the 416 Rigby.
Contrary to people on a board specializing in big bores such as this percieve even today the Rigby is almost unknown to 80% of hunters.
In 30 years I have never seen a factory box of ammo and only one CZ rifle.
This is what will eventually come of the H&H.
The Ruger,here in PA they cannot keep on the shelves. I have seen more factory Ruger 375 rifles in 1 year than factory 458's in 20 years.

Only seen one CZ 416 Rigby in 30 years? Seen more Ruger 375's in a year than factory 458's in 20 years? Hmmm ... somehow I don't think your sampling is very extensive. I've OWNED more factory 458s than I've SEEN 375 Rugers. I also own a 416 Rigby! A CZ no less!!

I think there is some wishful thinking going on in terms of long term popularity of the new cartridges over the classics. The new latest and greatest always rides a wave of popularity for awhile. That "awhile" is longer for some than others. WSMs come to mind! The Rigby and H&H offerings have stood the test of time and there really is no reason for them to fade now. Classics will always be in demand.

Not too long ago, there was a poll conducted here on AR regarding the popularity of the medium bore DG rounds. 416 Rem., 416 Rigby, 404J were compared. Guys lined up on the classics vs utility sides as expected. Even today, with the 416 Rem. having been well established on the market, the Rigby edged it out, albiet slightly. When putting the two classic calibers together, 404J and the Rigby, the Rem was well back.

There was a time when double rifles the likes of 470NE and such were pronounced Dead and Gone because of the new fangled 458 WM and its inexpensive platform and accompanying utility. The 458 is still going strong, especially in its "improved" version, the Lott, but the 470, and double rifles in general, are anything but Dead and Gone! Funny, the classics may not always wear the championship belt, but they have this way of putting it back on from time to time as challengers come and go! I'll stick with the Rigby and the H&H.

To an earlier post comparing the number of 375Rugers sold to the number of 375H&Hs, specifically in Holland and Holland rifles, I would respond that Honda has sold more Accords in a year than Rolls Royce has sold cars since it opened its doors. Both cars will get you down the road, but its not the same experience. Not an apples to apples comparison.

I book quite a few hunters on their first DG safari every year. During the bookng process the subject of appropriate calibers often comes up. My recommendation is almost always a 375 H&H. I don't recall one client since the Ruger version came out saying I think I'll try the 375 Ruger instead of the H&H. Maybe that is coincidence but I don't think so. The H&H screams Africa and for many many years has been a part of the traditional African battery and for that reason only I don't expect to see it go into obsolescence anytime soon.

Having said that other than the lack of availability of ammo in Africa I can't think of a reason to not use the 375 Ruger. Ballisically it mirrors the H&H and the rifle is safari ready right off the rack in a very utilitarian version that I like very much.

Mark

I've posted on another thread here at AR that I am not a particularly large man at 5'7" and 160 lbs. I also have very small hands even for my size. I wrote on that other thread that I carry a Dakota Safari in 458 Lott that weighs exactly 8.5 lbs. Its size is greatly appreciated by my small frame over other Lotts that typically weigh 9.5-10.5 lbs.

I own three 375H&Hs and have killed more game in Africa with that cartridge than any other, so I have a soft spot for it. However, last year I bought a Ruger African in 375 Ruger, and I have to say, for me, that rifle fits my hands better than any of the other three. It has a very slim grip and forearm, and weighs only 7.5 lbs. exactly. What a joy to carry! My three other 375H&Hs weigh any where from 1-2.5 lbs. more than the Ruger African. Last week I just bought two more of them, the "old ones" without the new muzzle brake, and with the barrel band front swivels. I think I will be switching to the Ruger for future safaris.

Blah blah blah. 308 win. Blah blah 300 rum or wsm. Blah blah 458 Lott. Blah blah 30/378. Blah blah 8x57. Blah blah black powder cartridges. Blah blah muzzle loader. Blah blah sticks. Blah blah a real man doesn't need a rock he can hunt with his bare hands.

So, does this mean that I need to throw my .375H&H in the trash???? It is no longer capable of killing animals if the shots are properly placed????? Will there be anyone willing to buy the .375 bullets I have left???? I know that the recyclers will buy the brass since it is no longer useful.

I've never owned a 375 H&H but I had a 375 Ruger made up on an FN Mauser action (couldn't stuff the H&H into that) with Montana barrel, Boyd stock and Pachmayr pad. I've never had so much fun with a gun in my life. I got it just in case I draw a tag for northern bc bison (about 1 in 50 odds)never thought I'd shoot much with it beyond load development but I just can't shoot it enough. With 270 grain Hornady and 76 gr RL15 the recoil is not painful - in fact touching one off is a riot and I went through over 30 rounds one day wishing there were more (I will admit I also use a PAST pad but just the regular version not the magnum). Good accuracy with the scope but what I really enjoy is shooting it with the Talley aperture sight that goes on when the QD scope is removed.

Nosler brass will be available this year and I'll give that a try - although can't say anything bad about the Hornady brass.

So I guess the point is that for those like me who have no history, no fond memories with the H&H round the future will be with the Ruger.
Rick

correction that should be 73 gr RL15 for the above load.
Rick

I'm still in love with mine. 250 TTSX and RL 15 has been my favorite load of late, but have done some reading about RL 17 in both the 375 Ruger and 9.3x62 and looking forward to trying it in both of them. Just an excuse to play with them some more really.

I say welcome to the .375 diameter family. The more the merrier! I've got two H&H's but wouldn't throw a Ruger out on the street if it came my way.

Canuck I'm interested in your consideration of RL17,might have a look at that - been having a hell of a time finding RL15 these days.

I speak under correction, but I'd guess that more 375 Rugers (caliber) are being sold in South Africa than are 375 H&H at the moment.

I think the rifles are a bit cheaper and the Howa a lot cheaper than the alternative CZ or Win M70.

I also think that the new buyers like the idea of a beltless case. Most guys who don't yet have a 375 are the "new generation" and they have been sold the beltless design just as we were sold the belted design years ago, whether or not we all subscribed to it.

The marketing has been very effective around particularly the 375 Ruger. If I were looking for another 375 I'd do Ruger ahead of H&H in a flash, but the rifle would probably not be the Ruger.

Why are you so defensive.Nobody said anything bad about 375hh.Chill out and stop acting like such a baby.Your feelings get hurt too easy.Your mom just called from upstairs and supper is ready.

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
So, does this mean that I need to throw my .375H&H in the trash???? It is no longer capable of killing animals if the shots are properly placed????? Will there be anyone willing to buy the .375 bullets I have left???? I know that the recyclers will buy the brass since it is no longer useful.

quote:

I also think that the new buyers like the idea of a beltless case. Most guys who don't yet have a 375 are the "new generation" and they have been sold the beltless design just as we were sold the belted design years ago, whether or not we all subscribed to it.

This pretty much sums up the issue...except that we were all sold a bill of goods regarding the need for a belted case. Only cases where belts are useful are ‘shoulder-less rimless’ cases.

I can hardly wait for a brass manufacturer to produce 2.85" rimless basic brass with a .532" body and rim diameter. A nice improved case design – say basically a stretched .375 Ruger case design – guess it could be called ‘375 Ruger Long Magnum aka: .375 RLM’ – just dummied one up and it’ll clean up the .375 H&H and .375 Weatherby chambers with a +9grs greater case capacity than the Weatherby. Yep, that'd really cause the arguments to run rampant.