quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
The H&H fans are still pissed about the 300 Win mag supplanting the 300 H&H and are makeing a last stand, and vainly hoping for different results, with the 375.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the ancient H&H round. It is as useful as ever, and will be with us as long as ther are hunters who favor nostalgia over more modern cartridges.

quote:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the ancient H&H round. It is as useful as ever, and will be with us as long as there are hunters who favor nostalgia over more modern cartridges.

Another truism…and basically the bottom line of the argument…

Very few people have killed anything with a cartridge case----------

its the bullet and velocity that does it.

Where am I wrong?

You're not wrong Sean.

But hey, it's late winter and folks just have to have something to argue about... And towards that end - the larger capacity case can deliver a higher velocity with the same bullet...

quote:

I can hardly wait for a brass manufacturer to produce 2.85" rimless basic brass with a .532" body and rim diameter.

I'll take one!

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

I also think that the new buyers like the idea of a beltless case. Most guys who don't yet have a 375 are the "new generation" and they have been sold the beltless design just as we were sold the belted design years ago, whether or not we all subscribed to it.

This pretty much sums up the issue...except that we were all sold a bill of goods regarding the need for a belted case. Only cases where belts are useful are ‘shoulder-less rimless’ cases.

I can hardly wait for a brass manufacturer to produce 2.85" rimless basic brass with a .532" body and rim diameter. A nice improved case design – say basically a stretched .375 Ruger case design – guess it could be called ‘375 Ruger Long Magnum aka: .375 RLM’ – just dummied one up and it’ll clean up the .375 H&H and .375 Weatherby chambers with a +9grs greater case capacity than the Weatherby. Yep, that'd really cause the arguments to run rampant.

Jim, that would be an interesting round, similar to the Jeffery-Saeed that RIP loves, and the RUM. However, it also raises the question about optimum hunting rounds. At what point is case capacity better put into more bullet diameter? And if one goes with more bullet diameter, at what point does one want to increase the diameter of casehead, too? African hunters are pretty much split on the .375". Some say that it is enough, and more speed is even better, while others say that over-40 is where things start getting interesting.

That is why I raised a poll several months ago, looking at optimum cases for hunting in relation to bore.
I think that the .532" beltless case is about optimum for the 30 calibres (30-37). The .473" is great for the 24-30 cal. (Yes, there is overlap, isn't there?) 37 calibre is at another margin. For long-range elk one could justify a 100+ grain case .375. However, the RUM already exists for those who want the long magnum magazine. For an ordinary elk gun, the 375 Ruger, 338 WM, and 338 based on 375 Ruger are pretty ideal, and all could work with 375 Ruger brass. Where Ruger Co. is missing out is in the .338". Their Compact Magnum is only a 338/06 when it could have been a standard action equivalent of the 340 Weatherby! And if you went with 2.85" Ruger brass, you would even have a round in league with the 338 RUM, Lapua, Norma. I'm not sure there is enough market at that level for another cartridge, but it is a nice tool to have.

And while praising the 375 Ruger for its niche and level, when I step up to a .416", I want more powder, too, so I still like the handloaded 416 Rigby for knowndown punch AND longrange. It's right on the edge of comfortable shooting, too. Perhaps a 2.85" Ruger brass would work for .416"? Maybe in the 5500-6000 ftlb range?

Well, since sarcasm seems to be wasted on some individuals, moving right along, every time some new super fantastic wonder cartridge is developed people will jump on the band wagon, sing its praises and suggest that all the older cartridges be tossed in the dumper.

It seems strange to me at least how on one hand people can list why the various new wunderkinds and yet have comments like this in their signature:

quote:

Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't the .30-06 been around longer than the .375, with the .45/70 and a couple of the metric cartridges having been around longer than the .30-06.

Rifles are still chambered and sold and used in those older rounds and people still use them. I think it is great that new offerings are being developed. Personally if I decide I want something more than my .375 H&H, I will invest in a .375 J-S. The world would be a really dull place if humans/hunters were limited to only a handful of cartridges and the rifles for them.

The reality is however, the old standbys remain that way and probably always, long after most of us are setting in that hunting camp in the sky.

The .375 Ruger does offer advantages over the venerable .375 H&H.

First, it allows high volume, assembly-line rifle manufacturers to offer a .375 caliber in a rifle with a short action. The result is that they save in manufacturing costs. They can use the same assembly-line action, same assembly-line stock, and same assembly line shipping boxes. Additionally, they get to assign their name to the cartridge. They get additional press coverage and enhanced name recognition for their products.

And, because the Ruger cartridge is only available in modern rifles, it can be loaded to higher pressures than the H&H round, a round that is often used in old and very old rifles. SAAMI maximum pressures are just that, maximum pressures. In reality, the H&H cartridge is regularly loaded to lesser pressures than the Ruger round.

However, I will not be misled by a media driven by advertising sales to big assembly line rifle makers. I know that the main reason the .375 Ruger exists is so Ruger can make rifles cheaper and easier, and that the medial frenzy is only to serve the purpose of selling the idea of their lower cost of production rifles to the public.

Further, I have no desire to shoot a cartridge that is loaded to higher pressure than the well proven cartridge just to eek out a few dozen more feet per second velocity. That leaves little or no room for factors that increase pressure like high temperatures, loading inconsistencies, or a dirty bore.

For me the blossom of the .375 Ruger has not wilted. No. For me the .375 Ruger just never bloomed in the first place.

quote:

That [higher pressure in a 375Ruger] leaves little or no room for factors that increase pressure

That is not relevant to this discussion.

1. The 375Ruger can duplicate 375H&H loads at slightly less pressure due to its slightly larger case.

2. Modern rifles at pressures under 65k are relatively safe, which is why so many cartridges are loaded to 60-65k psi.

Now if you already own a 375H&H I would agree that there is little reason for you to consider buying a 375Ruger. I wouldn't.
But if you are weighing the two cartridges, then it must be done fairly to both cartridges.

Just curious; Can you get 3 down in the box with the Ruger cartridges (375 or 416) in a Ruger rifle? Sometimes the short/fats reduce magazine capacity.
Hope you would not need it but you can 5-6 down in a CZ with the 375H&H.

I agree with Grenadier. The Ruger .375 only benefits Ruger or possibly those that just have to have a Ruger bolt gun in this caliber. To me it seems a pointless derivative. I own two Sakos in .375 H&H. They take 4 down quite comfortably. My 2cents. Paul

I have a number of 375H&H's, CZ's and a Jeffrey.

Would I sell them and buy a Ruger ? No

If I was buying a 375 cal for the first time,
would I look at 375 Ruger ? Yes, especially
in Stainless Plastic like the Howa.

Short action is useful but not as much
as people say IMHO.

It was also designed as a cartridge to sell
the Ruger name and Ruger + others guns.

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
Just curious; Can you get 3 down in the box with the Ruger cartridges (375 or 416) in a Ruger rifle? Sometimes the short/fats reduce magazine capacity.
Hope you would not need it but you can 5-6 down in a CZ with the 375H&H.

You can get 5 375 Ruger's down in a CZ also, but only 3 in the standard Ruger, Howa and Mauser.

I have a Ruger M-77 that Bill Ruger's personal gunsmith modified to handle 375 H&H and it too only holds 3 down.
Like most things on these forums, folks like to throw in as many variables as possible to augment their opinions.

The fact is that the 375 Ruger is very popular in this state [ where many people actually use them, rather than simply argue about them ] and vastly outsells the H&H version. Just as the 300 Win did when compared to the 300 H&H -- and for the very same reasons.

quote:

The fact is that the 375 Ruger is very popular in this state [ where many people actually use them, rather than simply argue about them ] and vastly outsells the H&H version. Just as the 300 Win did when compared to the 300 H&H -- and for the very same reasons.

Slightly off topic, but curious:

what is the ratio of 416 Rugers to 375 Rugers in Alaska? I would guess that four or five 375Rugers are sold for every 416Ruger, but I can see the 416 Ruger as being very useful where brown bears roam and would handle moose, too. I wonder if a similar ratio occurs in South africa?

Ruger did something right with those two.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

That [higher pressure in a 375Ruger] leaves little or no room for factors that increase pressure

That is not relevant to this discussion.

I believe it is relevant to the discussion. The 375 Ruger vs 375 H&H argument usually concludes with the Ruger round producing more velocity and that it is, therefore, the better of the two. But to get any significantly higher velocity the Ruger cartridge must be loaded to significantly higher pressure. And though a modern firearm may be "safe" for maximum pressure loads, loading to maximum pressure also means there is less margin for safety for any additional pressure caused by variables like high temperature and a dirty bore.

Yes, the Ruger round will produce slightly more velocity when loaded to the same pressure as the H&H round but who does that? Factory ammunition favors the Ruger primarily by loading it to higher pressures. And those who reload the Ruger invariable do the same thing and load it to the brim.

Consider, if you will, this bit of loading data from Accurate Reloading Powders :



Data like this is typical. So, in terms of velocity and pressure, where is the benefit of the .375 Ruger? Is it worth the extra 7000psi to get an additional 100fps ? I don't think so. And if you loaded the H&H and Ruger cartridges to comparable pressures the velocity difference wouldn't be anything to write home about.


458WIN wrote:

quote:

The fact is that the 375 Ruger is very popular in this state [ where many people actually use them, rather than simply argue about them ] and vastly outsells the H&H version.

I don't think any perceived advantage of the .375 Ruger cartridge has much if anything to do with the popularity of the rifles. I think that there are many people who want to purchase an inexpensive knockabout rifle. The Ruger is such a rifle and the Ruger in .375 Ruger allows them to have a powerhouse in a cheap platform. Don't get me wrong. There is much to be said for that and Ruger has addressed it very well. But I wonder how many of those hunters would be choosing the Ruger cartridge over the H&H cartridge if they were both offered in the exact same version of the Model 77 and at the same price. My guess is few.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
I think that there are many people who want to purchase an inexpensive knockabout rifle. The Ruger is such a rifle and the Ruger in .375 Ruger allows them to have a powerhouse in a cheap platform.

And that I believe was the goal. Using this criteria, it would seem the 375 Ruger is a success.

The rated pressues of the two rounds are only 2000 psi different. The 375 H&H is not a low pressure round. Many people believe it is because they look at the old CUP rating, not the PSI rating. Other data shows the pressures to be much closer at similar velocities.

Capacity of my 375 Interarms vs my 375 Ruger 98 is identical, 3 down. My CZ may hold more, but it is a much bigger rifle. In a 98, I prefer the Ruger cartridge since it leaves much more meat in the action than the H&H does. They both feed slick as can be so that isn't an issue.

Does this mean I am in a hurry to get rid of my H&H? No.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:

The 375 Ruger vs 375 H&H argument usually concludes with the Ruger round producing more velocity and that it is, therefore, the better of the two. But to get any significantly higher velocity the Ruger cartridge must be loaded to significantly higher pressure.

This is mixing too many variables and a straw-man argument. The Ruger capacity will produce "more" velocity, not "significantly more," BUT not at higher pressure. The extra five grains capacity can be expected to produce about 50 fps more velocity at equivalent psi, or similar velocity at lower psi. Obviously, 50 fps will be overshadowed by individual rifles.

quote:

And though a modern firearm may be "safe" for maximum pressure loads, loading to maximum pressure also means there is less margin for safety for any additional pressure caused by variables like high temperature and a dirty bore.

Please do not argue for water to flow uphill.
The higher pressure warning applies equally to the H&H and the Ruger. See data below. The physics of the cases, however, do not change.

quote:

Yes, the Ruger round will produce slightly more velocity when loaded to the same pressure as the H&H round but who does that?

We are agreed, then, on basic velocity.
As for the pressure argument, Barnes 4th edition did you one better, they loaded the Ruger to significantly lower pressures (or else had an exceptionally slow test barrel.)

quote:

Consider, if you will, this bit of loading data from Accurate Reloading Powders :



Data like this is typical. So, in terms of velocity and pressure, where is the benefit of the .375 Ruger? Is it worth the extra 7000psi to get an additional 100fps ? I don't think so.

You have misrepresented basic physics here. The extra 5 grain capacity of the Ruger, if averaged across enough rifles, would probably produce about 50 fps extra velocity, maybe 75, and they would do this at the same average pressure.

Again, the pressure "data" is not relevant to this discussion, and it actually supports the Ruger.
As mentioned:
1. The 375Ruger can duplicate 375H&H loads at slightly less pressure due to its slightly larger case. This assumes optimum powders for the case capacity.
2. Modern rifles at pressures under 65k are relatively safe, which is why so many cartridges are loaded to 60-65k psi.

Here is the Barnes 4th edition data on both the 375 Ruger and the 375 H&H.
I had to delete most of the powder lines because the powders listed in the Ruger article only overlapped the H&BH article in one powder, R15, listed below.
Barnes 4th edition
.375 Ruger
235 grain TSX
powder charge velocity percent capacity
RL 15 -- 76.0 -- 2988 -- -- 93%
300 grain TSX
RL 15 70.0 2580 94%

.375 H&H Magnum
235 grain TSX
RL 15 - 80.5 - 3039 -- -- 103%
300 grain TSX
RL 15 - 71.5 - 2589 -- -- 101%

Barnes loaded up their H&H to compressed charges and left the Ruger at 6-7% under capacity. Either their barrels were radically different, or else they loaded the Ruger somewhat below its potential.
Either way, it proves nothing, since those are comparisons of individual barrels.

By the way, if someone adds powder columns to the discussion, then the Ruger might be more accurate than the H&H, theoretically.
I understand that the shorter column 308 is widely considered more accurate over the longer column 30-06. But this means nothing to hunters, because a few thousands of a theorectical inch is overwhelmed by real world barrel construction in any hunting rifle.

So let's kept the discussion factually on a level playing field.
Yes, the Ruger can produce slightly more velocity than the H&H at equal pressures, but the slight difference may be overshadowed by any individual barrel, positively or negatively.
Yes, the Ruger is available in inexpensive rifles that may broaden its appeal.
No, the Ruger does not suffer from pressure problems.
And the magazine capacity will largely reflect the individual rifle maker: both rounds have .532" as the maximum width.
The Ruger has an inherent 1/4" barrel length advantage. That is, a 22" barrel will have 1/4" greater working length in the Ruger than the H&H. (That was tongue-in-cheek, since a 1/4" length advantage will produce 6-8 fps., something below the error factor of common measuring devices.)

Myself? I have used the 375 H&H in Africa and found it adequate. I do not currently own one. I have preferred the 338WM as a lightweight plains-game gun. 7 1/2 lbs with scope, 24", is a nice carrying package. But I prefer carrying a heavier CZ 416 Rigby loaded for buffalo and long-range eland (350 grain, 2820fps). While I've considered a 416Ruger as a practical replacement, I haven't wanted to give up the significant velocity and power advantage (200 fps, 1000 ftlbs).
I picked up a 375 Ruger a couple of years ago, but that was to build a 500 AccRel. It handled nicely. Ruger has a winner on its hands, and the H&H is also a great, classic calibre.
Will I ever buy another 375 Ruger or 375H&H? I can't say. Maybe if I moved to Alaska I'd get a 416Ruger.
Or my wife might want a 375 Ruger. Her call.

I have another idea - lets start another thread titled - Has the blossom of the 375 H&H wilted ?
And I will go first - Yes, in this state, and according to sales of .375 rifles in this country, it apparently has

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I have another idea - lets start another thread titled - Has the blossom of the 375 H&H wilted ?
And I will go first - Yes, in this state, and according to sales of .375 rifles in this country, it apparently has

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
You have misrepresented basic physics here.

I have done no such thing.

quote:

The extra 5 grain capacity of the Ruger, if averaged across enough rifles, would probably produce about 50 fps extra velocity, maybe 75, and they would do this at the same average pressure.

I do not dispute this.

You missed my point entirely:

- One can argue that the Ruger round produces significantly more velocity than the H&H round but it only does so when loaded to a significantly higher pressure. If not loaded to a significantly higher pressure the Ruger round will not produce a significantly higher velocity.

- One can argue that the Ruger round produces the same velocities as the H&H round at lower pressures and more velocity when loaded to the same presure. But the velocity difference is not significant. When loaded to the same pressures the velocity advantage of the Ruger is only a 25 yard velocity advantage. Meaning that at any point downrange the velocity of the Ruger round will be about the same as what the the H&H round is 25 yards behind it. When using a 50 yard zero the trajectory of the Ruger cartridge translates to a whopping difference of about 3" less drop at 300 yards and, when using a 200 yard zero, it is only about 1" flatter than the .357H&H at 300 yards.

Therefore, whether one is arguing for the velocity benefits of the Ruger or the lower pressure benefits of the Ruger, those benefits do exist to a small degree but neither is enough of a difference to amount to a hill of beans.

I see the .375 Ruger as just another choice, the same as I view the .375 H&H. Why people feel the need to argue that the Ruger round is so much better than the .375 H&H is beyond me. Maybe it's part of that male envious thing that Freud wrote of.

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
I think that there are many people who want to purchase an inexpensive knockabout rifle. The Ruger is such a rifle and the Ruger in .375 Ruger allows them to have a powerhouse in a cheap inexpensive platform.

And that I believe was the goal. Using this criteria, it would seem the 375 Ruger is a success.

The rated pressures of the two rounds are only 2000 psi different. [/b]The 375 H&H is not a low pressure round[/b]. Many people believe it is because they look at the old CUP rating, not the PSI rating. Other data shows the pressures to be much closer at similar velocities.

Capacity of my 375 Interarms vs my 375 Ruger 98 is identical, 3 down. My CZ may hold more, but it is a much bigger rifle. In a 98, I prefer the Ruger cartridge since it leaves much more meat in the action than the H&H does. They both feed slick as can be so that isn't an issue.

Very good exchange – I did however change one word and highlighted a very important tidbit of information.

There has always been a perception that USA manufactured rifles – are cheaply manufactured compared to (now) EU manufactured rifles. I agree that there are, and have been many, cheaply manufactured and assembled rifles from the USA but I would also state that is one of the perceptions of a high-volume assembly-line process vis-à-vis a low-volume hand-fit process. But I will also state that many of these high-volume assembly-line processes have been successfully modified with modern computerized and CNC processes to produce very close tolerance reasonably priced rifles – that with very little additional monies (at least with the metal work) can closely rival the fit and finish of the low-volume hit-fit process abet with parts that are interchangeable between same manufactured rifles with little to zero need to ‘refit’ the parts to properly function. Much of this same computerized CNC process has also overtaken the production of rifles within the EU leaving the low-volume hand-fit process to only high-end to very high-end (cost wise) rifles.

And regarding the loaded pressure of the .375 H&H Magnum vis-à-vis the .375 Ruger – also as noted by z1r… And to emphasize this tidbit of information, here you go:

Measurement Method: Piezo SAAMI or Piezo CIP
(PMap = Piezo Maximum Average Pressure)
.375 H&H Mag – 62366 psi PMap / 4300 bar PMap (CIP)
.375 Ruger – 63817 psi PMap / 4400 bar PMap (SAAMI)
And for comparison
.300 H&H Mag – 62366 psi PMap / 4300 bar PMap (CIP)
.300 WinMag – 62366 psi PMap / 4300 bar PMap (CIP)

And now the anomalies; i.e., standards issued by both organizations:
– 65000 psi PMap / 4482 bar PMap (SAAMI) &– 62366 psi PMap / 4300 bar PMap (CIP)
.270 Winchester (yes the old 1923 design)
.270 WSM
.300 WSM
.300 RSAUM
.325 WSM

And for grins and giggles:
8 x 57 Mauser (.323 caliber)
– 35000 psi PMap / 2413 bar PMap (SAAMI) &– 56565 psi PMap / 3900 bar PMap (CIP)

As can easily seen from this prospective, there are differences between the PMap of CIP and SAAMI certifications but there is only a 1451 psi PMap difference between the .375 H&H Magnum and the .375 Ruger – and remember, this may only be a .5gr to a 1.5gr difference in loaded powder capacity for the difference in pressure depending upon the powder used.

Also, I believe most argue that the .375 Ruger can match or exceed the .375 H&H at a similar PMap.

quote:

Therefore, whether one is arguing for the velocity benefits of the Ruger or the lower pressure benefits of the Ruger, those benefits do exist to a small degree but neither is enough of a difference to amount to a hill of beans.

I see the .375 Ruger as just another choice, the same as I view the .375 H&H. Why people feel the need to argue that the Ruger round is so much better than the .375 H&H is beyond me. Maybe it's part of that male envious thing that Freud wrote of.

This is very true. Unfortunately the AR threads initiated shortly after the introduction of the .375 Ruger followed much along the same lines as the .416 Rigby vis-à-vis the .416 Remington - basically the beloved historic cartridge does everything that the upstart new 'high pressure' cartridge does without the 'high pressure'.

In the case of the .416 Rigby this was true - however it does require the longer and heavier magnum-length action vis-a-vis the standard-long length action to accommodate the cartridge.

In the case of the .375 H&H Magnum not so much – their PMap is within 1.5K of each other – the action also not so much as the H&H only requires a standard-long length action whereas the Ruger only requires a standard length action but most modern manufacturers utilize the same action to accommodate both.

Something that is touched upon by many .375 H&H Magnum aficionados is that using this round in the CZ 550 Magnum action allows them to handload to a longer COAL which greatly enhances performance without increasing the PMap of the cartridge. This same argument could be used with the .375 Ruger by chambering it in a standard-long length action with would also allow a longer COAL and therefore enhanced performance without increasing the PMap of the cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I have a Ruger M-77 that Bill Ruger's personal gunsmith modified to handle 375 H&H and it too only holds 3 down.

I still have the article Dave Scoville wrote detailing this rifle. I bought a Ruger 375 H&H magazine box and follower from brownells thinking I would convert a M77RS in the exact same way that Bill Atkinson did with Dave's (Now Phil's) rifle. Care must be taken, but this is a relatively easy conversion. It seemed like a much lighter and handier CRF alternative to the Model 70. I still haven't got around to it, and now think that it would be superfluous considering the introduction of the 375 Ruger. I am one of those afflicted with nostalgic sentimentality towards "classic" rifles and cartridges. However, the utilitarian practicality of the 375 Ruger is absolutely undeniable, except for the Nostalgically obtuse.
Matt

quote:

Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:

the utilitarian practicality of the 375 Ruger is absolutely undeniable, except for the Nostalgically obtuse.
Matt

+1 I have a .375 flanged. If I was looking for a .375 bolt rifle, it would be a .375 Ruger.

The 375 H&H that Bill Atkinson built on a standard M-77 is a slim, lightweight rifle and a great favorite of both myself and my guides.
Yes, I still like and use the H&H as well as the Ruger and am intimately familiar with both of their strengths and weaknesses.
And you are correct that it still retains the quick, lively feel of a standard length action. The one potential weakness I see, and am sure the Ruger engineers did as well, is that the bolt stop has been cut back so much that it is less than half the thickness and strength of the original.

To each his own. I simply like the tapered cases and long necks so for me the H&H is more preferable choice.
However for me the ideal Alaskan cartridge is actually the 350 Rigby (loaded with 270 - 280gr bullets).

CZ

I have a few of each H&H and Ruger. Both seem to multiple in my gun safes. I confess, I really like the H&H cartridge. But, having been hunting with the Ruger for the past few years and again will this year.
Hey Phil, I almost have those two Ruger 375 "Customs" squared away. The ones you seen a few years ago, the Anchorage butcher jobs by what's their name Wild moorons or something like that. I hear they are televised comedians now. Anyways, after a couple of years in the back of safe, I had them both correctly Re-stocked at McMillan. More on that story a bit later.
Larry

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I have another idea - lets start another thread titled - Has the blossom of the 375 H&H wilted ?
And I will go first - Yes, in this state, and according to sales of .375 rifles in this country, it apparently has

The real benefit of the Ruger is that it performs so well in a barrel of only 20 inches. It makes up into a really nice little package.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.

Now there's a quote to live by!

------------------------------------------------



This thread is another stupid argument, kinda like pissing into the wind. Doesn't make any sense. Buy whatever floats your boat.


FWIW, I just took delivery of a Winchester M70 Safari Express in .375H&H.
I bought the H&H cuz that's what I wanted.

I needed the rifle like a hole in the head, as I already have a .458Lott and a .416RM.

Whatever...

If I'm shooting at ranges or in "situations" where the differing
performance of the Ruger and H&H make any significant difference, I've already made a big mistake.

I have an ZG 47 system which was lying around for some years. While I am a big believer by track record in the 375 H&H I consider making up a custom 375 Ruger as I can get an excellent Heym barrel for it and as I can get the components easily here. What I really struggle at the moment is the ideal barrel length/ contour. Having at least the performance of the H&H is mandatory but I would like to keep it as short as possible also. Ideas appreciated, thank you.

I see that this thread started over three years ago...Not a really long time; however, the .375 Ruger appears to be still going strong based on new sales and rechamberings of other calibers...

quote:

Originally posted by jaegerfrank:
I have an ZG 47 system which was lying around for some years. While I am a big believer by track record in the 375 H&H I consider making up a custom 375 Ruger as I can get an excellent Heym barrel for it and as I can get the components easily here. What I really struggle at the moment is the ideal barrel length/ contour. Having at least the performance of the H&H is mandatory but I would like to keep it as short as possible also. Ideas appreciated, thank you.

Frank,

The last 375 Ruger I built used a 23" barrel. It was the perfect length according to my customer. According to him, velocities exceeded his 24" barreled Whitworth H&H.

Frank,

Recommended length is somewhat dependent upon 'how' you intend to use the rifle. I personally like rifles with 'carry' length barrels in the 22"-24" range but I also enjoy short carbine length rifles for tight quarters use.

I do have a friend in Oregon, USA who cut the 20" barrel of his M77 Ruger .375 Ruger to 17" length for greater portability in the Oregon woods; also replaced the somewhat wobbly newer Ruger synthetic stock with an older-stiffer Ruger synthetic stock. I was with him when he chrono'd his preferred 300gr Hornady RN SP bear loading, a mild pressure loading, at an average 2304fps from the 17" barrel. Later in the day the same loading grouped within 8" at 325yds in cross-canyon shooting from a field sitting position. The bark is definately loud with factory Hornady 270gr Superformance ammunition (designed to shoot in 20"-23" barrel length) but it was a joy to shoot with the handloaded ammunition; loud bark was also missing with the handloaded ammunition...

Matching .375 H&H performance - I seriously doubt that factory loaded 300gr RN SP .375 H&H ammunition would have exceeded the 2304fps of the .375 Ruger if fired from an identical 17" barrel length.

So match the barrel length to the style hunting you'll primarily be doing then handload accordingly with a powder that'll give you optimum performance and 100%powder burn. You'll be very happy.

I just saw a Nosler ad that they will be include the chambering of their rifle in
. . . drum roll . . .
375 Ruger.

Sounds promising for the 375 Ruger.

Thank you for he good advise. I guess I will go for 22". I like my Win 70 in 375 but I really want something shorter. I have always been very very happy with the A Frames but maybe nowadays with a modern cartridge it will not hurt too much to move to 270 so the lower bullet weight might make up for barrel length anyway as velocity is concerned. And with a mild load it might be even nice for driven wild boar- not sure about the feeding design of the sharp shouldered Ruger though.

I have 375Rugers with 20" and 23.5" barrels, both in McMillan stocks. I like both. My son has one with a 22.5" in the same McMillan as my 23.5". I actually think his 22.5" is about perfect.
The barrels were suppose to be 22" & 23", a gunsmith issue with the extra .5". I would be very satisfied with a 22". My bullet of choice is the 270 TSX for all.
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quote:

Originally posted by jaegerfrank:
Thank you for he good advise. I guess I will go for 22". I like my Win 70 in 375 but I really want something shorter. I have always been very very happy with the A Frames but maybe nowadays with a modern cartridge it will not hurt too much to move to 270 so the lower bullet weight might make up for barrel length anyway as velocity is concerned. And with a mild load it might be even nice for driven wild boar- not sure about the feeding design of the sharp shouldered Ruger though.

I took an old Whitworth Mark X in 7mm Remington and turned it into a 375 Ruger the week after Douglas made barrels available. I like the idea of a non-belted mag and the standard length action. Once I got the barrel in and blued, I was a bit upset because it never shot the best.

Then right before the winter set in last fall, I swapped the custom wood stock with a no-name synthetic and threw an old Weaver straight 3x on it and went to the range. I was only able to shoot it at 50 yards, but I put all 3 rounds in the same hole with 250 Sierras and 74gr of RL-15. That was the turning point.

I saved all my pennies over the winter and put a Vortex Viper HS LR on it, loaded up some 260gr Accubond test loads, and took it to the range on Saturday. Once I got it on paper at 100 yards, I was able to put the first 2 shots through the first hole and the third shot about 3/4" higher.

Now I'm wondering what I should do with my 300 Weatherby? I might just sell that and keep the 375. What do you guys think?

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Did you epoxy-bed your new stock, or the old one, for that matter? Be sure and keep the action screws tight, it sounds like you might be getting the slightest bit of movement.

I have built and sold several 375 Rugers and 416 Rugers and 2 404 Ruger wildcats by necking up the case to .423..I tested them all for velocity, and accuracy, and they passed the test in flying colors.

The Ruger case is a modern case and in all cases it gave a tad more velocity than the 375 H&H and the 416 Rem, Its a grand case and will be here a long long time. It has earned its wings.

That said, I still shoot my old wore out 300 H&H and the worthless old .375 H&H and I can handload the 300 H&H to all but the RUMs, the Wby and that class of real hot shots that btw only beat the handloaded H&H by about a 100 or so FPS..could do the same with the 375 except I prefer 2550 FPS with 300 gr. bullets for all DG animals in a .375 of any kind, damn!

Then again I'm old, my horses are old, my pickups wore out, so its only natural my guns would be also..yet I have no complaints on any of them, not even the newbies.