quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
A straight wall case gives you all the neck you want.

id 10 t -- BOLT GUN, and .510 bullet .. means either a 20K heym or a 500 linebaugh ..

You ahve no expereince in the matter, but that's never stopped you from posting your depth og inexperience

linebaugh??? what's that? All I am saying is that I would choose a double rifle chambered for a straight wall 500,like the 500 Nitro Express, over any 500 bolt gun.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
linebaugh??? what's that? All I am saying is that I would choose a double rifle chambered for a straight wall 500,like the 500 Nitro Express, over any 500 bolt gun.

That's NOT what you said .. that may have been what you MEANT, flinchy, but what you said is straight case

That you don't know these things speaks VOLUMES of your ballerina act .. don't know what a linebaugh is? haven't shot a 375? Think that a 458 barrel is shot out in 100-200 rounds? All of these things point out that you try to present yourself as an authority and are sadly missing the mark.

We are all looking forward to your shooting videos of you with a 500 NE in a merkel...

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
linebaugh??? what's that? All I am saying is that I would choose a double rifle chambered for a straight wall 500,like the 500 Nitro Express, over any 500 bolt gun.

That's NOT what you said .. that may have been what you MEANT, flinchy, but what you said is straight case

That you don't know these things speaks VOLUMES of your ballerina act .. don't know what a linebaugh is? haven't shot a 375? Think that a 458 barrel is shot out in 100-200 rounds? All of these things point out that you try to present yourself as an authority and are sadly missing the mark.

We are all looking forward to your shooting videos of you with a 500 NE in a merkel...

A 458 will shoot out and cause really large groups, in that many rds, if you are shooting monometals or solids or if you start out with a cheap barrel.

No, it won't, and you have no proof .. this is you utter unsupported opinion .. not even a parker hale, with their VERY soft barrels, shoots out in 100 or 200 rounds, even shooting steels .. and son, steel makes brass seem as soft as butter

Look, flincy -- surface area to bore diameter ratio goes UP with smaller rounds ..

SO, the village is loking for you .. if there was a wear of bullets on barrels based off bullets, then the 308 whooting FMJ's would be shot out FASTER than a .458 .. and, if you are foolish enough not to understand that, it's the cube/square rule .. as the surface area squares, the volume CUBES ..

further, even thinking for an instant that the larger bores wear faster (WRONG) thent he 50 BMG< shooting steel jacketed bullets, would wear out in LESS rounds than a .458 ...

Of course, you ahve no expereince with the matter, and feel that you can run your mouth without recourse, and try to present you (in) experience as authority.

You still shooting at the wrong target to get your shots on paper?

Snow mobile helmut to shoot with?

One ring on a 458?

being a ballerina this weekend? tutu and all?

In my book,a barrel that shoots 3 or 4 inch groups at 50yds is shot out.

I see no use for a 500 MBOGO as there are several other "standard" options available. The 500 AR is at least practical if one wants a standard length action and is afraid of the extensive modifications required to fit a 500 Jeffery into one (std action that is). In a single shot I would probably opt for a 500 NE either 3" or 3.25" over any of the rimless rounds.

I have shot out a couple 458 WM barrels over the decades, if one considers shot out to be extensive throat erosion. I must admit though that it took a hell of a lot more than 100 - 200 rounds (it took more than an order of magnitude more).

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
In my book,a barrel that shoots 3 or 4 inch groups at 50yds is shot out.

I can shoot 308s in a 358 and get groups that good, bub...

3 to 4 inch groups at 50 yards is more than likely shooter error more than barrel wear. My old Krag would print better than that while printing perfect bullet profiles on the target (aka awesome keyholing)!! Now that barrel was TRULY shot out, heck is was practically a smooth bore!! I wish I had rebarreled that old soldier instead of selling it all those years ago like a dumbass!!!

Also,IMO,a bottled shape magnum case will wear the rifling out in front of the neck prematurely compared to the rest of the bore.

ANY case will, flinchy .. that's where WEAR occurs .. a 38 special lever gun will do it in the same place.. over about a million bullets.

It didn't do it with any of my 458s.I am not a gunsmith but I think any rifle will if it's chamber is cut out of line with its bore axis.

Ralfboy....you opened up a BIG can of worms here. Everyone on this thread is overloaded with testosterone and are TOTALLY into PAIN...

It really boils down to how big your wallet is, how much thump you are willing to take, what you expect to do with your cannon and how heavy into bragging rights you want to go...or whether it is a DGR or push feed rifle. Hahahaha

You can do a 510 Gibbs...nothing more than a 505 necked up a bit...dies are available, brass is easy to do. As been suggested...just buy a 505 Gibbs CZ and stick on a 0.510" barrel and go do your thing.

The 500, A-SQUARE, 500 AH, 500 AHR, 500 Jeffery, 500 Mbogo are all excellent, useful and fit different appetites AND receivers.

There are simpler ways to handle the rim other than adding a screw on part...I know some don't like "rebated rims" but you don't have to rebate the Gibbs rim much to fit just about ANY LA receiver...or not...bolts can be modified simply enough...and again...pick the right receiver and you don't have to mess with that mod.

I can't afford or "need" another cannon but I'm playing with a Savage 110 LA anyway...I can make a modified magazine...already did some simple milling to the receiver and it handle (almost) a 4" loaded cartridge through the mag . I initially picked the 505 Gibbs case because it was near but not beyond the capacity of the Savage. There is also the Savage bolt shotgun that Ed Hubel is working with.

I can also single feed a 50 BMG by seating the bullet slightly deeper in the case, although because of the 50 BMG base OD you need to use a 1.5" barrel blank and would be walking on the wildside if you loaded to normal 50BMG pressures...or simply pull the bolt and drop the full length cartridge down the hole.

There is also the 12GAFH to consider if you REALLY want a nutbuster.

There are just a whole bunch of very neat cases and calibers to choose from in the 50 cal and larger arena. Some are erotic dreams, some are just very good for their purpose.

I've looked at all of the RUM, Rigby and Gibbs based wildcats and they ALL have something good going for each of them...some have "cool" names...some are time tested...some are new but take advantage of the newer, larger cases and have very good balistics.

I'm having a hard time deciding which one...if any...I will build. It won't be a DGR...most likely the Sav LA I'm playing with now and probably toward the large case end because I want to shoot milsurp bullets at a decent velocity and still be able to mag feed a shorter bullet.

I also looked hard at the 50-140 on a NEF SB-2 action.

The combined knowledge of big bores from all the participants on this forum is massive...but is it "tainted"(no flame intended) by each ones dreams, wants and desires...it is hard to get a non-biased opinion ...but the information you DO get from Jeff, RGB, ED, Macifej, Boom stick, Rip is excellent and you need to listen to it before YOU decide which one fit YOU the best. Buliwyf hits the "go standard" argument dead center.

This is YOUR rifle, to fit YOUR wants and needs...make a good, informed decision and don't look back.

Jeezzz...I wish Lady Luck would pucker up and slap a big smooch on me instead of just slapping the ********* outa me. Hahahahaha

Luck on your quest.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
GS: Ho hum.

It's either the 500 Mbogo in a bolt action,
or the "577/500 Nitro Express Longer-Is-Better" in a double rifle.

Rip has spoken.
Good bye.

Well, at least I call the .510 Wells by it's proper name.

It is the most sensible big bore, if you don't like lugging a magnum action around.

That's what's neat about the .510 Van Horn, short action.


This thread needs more art:
The 'lil' cartridge in the middle is a .500 Linebaugh. The gun is a .500 Linebaugh Maximum. The bullets are a 700 grain, .510 cup point, and, the cast 750 grain .510 BMG bullet it was cut from


The next picture shows 4 .510 Van Horns with Barnes 600 grain solids at 2150 fps, easily, 50-110, .50 Alaskan, and the .500 Linebaugh. Up in the right corner, 458 Lott, 500 grain solids 2300 fps:


Here's Shawn shooting his .500 Nitro Express: EASY to shoot:

570's at 2015 fps, IIRC.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
In my book,a SHOOTER that shoots 3 or 4 inch groups at 50yds is shot out.

Fixed.

Bent,
Let's not be silly about it then,
but let us seriously discuss your choice of 2.8500" for the case length of the 500/416 Rigby, American nomenclature,
or "416/500 Rigby" for the British.

I think 2.85" is too long, it would crowd the standard 3.60" box if you allow 0.75" for bullet nose length, which you must.

What purpose is there for shortening the 500 Mbogo, other than to make it fit in a .375 H&H length box, nominally 3.60"?

The Hornady DGX soft is about 1.270" long.
The nose length of the bullet is .75" to .76" if you seat it as deeply as you can and still crimp on the cannelure.

I made up a dummy 2.800" case by trimming down a 500 Mbogo and sizing it in 500 Jeffery dies.
Compare it to the 500 Jeffery with 2.750" case length.
Also compare it to the 500 Mbogo, with 2.950" case length as shown.





The Jeffery has a 0.328" neck length!
The 500/416 Rigby 2.800" Short, with Jeffery shoulder, has a neck length of 0.388",
but of course you could make that neck longer by setting the shoulder back.

The 500 Mbogo at 2.950" has a neck length of 0.442".
My brass can grow 0.050" to max, and the neck is then 0.492", as per previous discussion, see drawing.

Remember that even a caliber-length neck in .510-caliber, is still visibly wider (.532") than it is long (.510").
Loaded with the Hornady DGX 570-grain bullet, as shown,
the 500/416 Rigby 2.800" has a COL of 3.560".
That is enough length for a 3.60" box.
Trim-to 2.790" gives COL of 3.550".
Perfect.

The 500 Mbogo 2.950" with the same bullet has a COL of 3.710".
at full length of 3.000" brass, COL is 3.760".
That goes into a nominal 3.800" box.
Trim-too length of 2.990" gives COL of 3.750"
In fact, my CZ box is 3.840".
Plenty of room.
3.75" COL is a standard COL for the Rigby-based, full length cartridges.

I always hated wasting 0.100" of box length with the 500A2 (2.900" brass) in a true magnum box, with the available bullets.
I don't have to do that with the 500 Mbogo.

The bullet nose length shown was 0.760" crimped as deeply as shown.
0.750" is about as short as you can get with that bullet.
That is about as long as any 50-cal hunting bullet will be in the nose. Some bullets are less.

The 500 Jeffery COL is supposed to be 3.4681".
With a brass length of 2.7500", that allows for only 0.7181" bullet nose!

Even using the short-nosed, old Barnes RN brass solid, the COL of the 500 Jeffery as shown in my picture is 3.4850"!
Another handicap for the 500 Jeffery in a standard length action, unless the action is opened up a bit.

Here is that DGX 570-grainer,
and also the front sight of the 500 Mbogo.
I borrowed the bead and hood from another rifle, still waiting for the backorderd parts, required a little file and Dremel work :





BTW, the Hornady .510/570-grain DGX soft is truly .510" diameter.

Again, for QuickLOAD simulations, that bullet length is 1.270", approximately.

I am going to load my lightweight 500 Mbogo to 500 NE velocities with these 570-grainers.
Pressures will be lower than the 500 Nitro Express.
That is for starters, then work up from 2150 fps to 2500 fps..
I will see if I can grow the brass to at least 2.990", for
COL 3.750" with this bullet.

To simplify, a rule for sporting 500 "magazine rifle" bullet nose compatibility:

Box should be 0.800" longer than brass.

3.8" box: 3.000" max brass
3.6" box: 2.800" max brass
3.4" box: 2.600" max brass

Of course one can always trim the neck back if the box is too short.

For example, the 500 Jeffery, if made to fit into a 3.4" standard action box length, should be trimmed from 2.750" brass to 2.600" brass.
The neck will then be 0.178" long.
Otherwise get the gunsmith to open up the action in order to maintain full 0.328" 500 Jeffery neck length.

I still don't understand what would be so great about a 500/416 Rigby in a .375 H&H length action.

RIP,

quote:

I still don't understand what would be so great about a 500/416 Rigby in a .375 H&H length action. popcorn

Because you can simply turn the rim down to .532 and use a M700 that had previously been an UltraMag.

A 500 Jeffery Mini-Me?

Oh, I get it. That was a joke!

if it can chunk a 600 at 2150, or 570 at the same, its probably good enough to blow through anything that ever walked this planet ...

anything past that, its angels in the eye of a needle .. and entirely about CHOICE

thanks for reminding me, RIP .. i need to update the ammoguide and my website drawings.. 3.4 is good, but you can set at 3.35, which crimps more than enough to prevent the bullets from sliding back under recoil/impact

See what I mean, Ralfboy...

Those that are heavy into wildcatting...TO THE MAX...and can afford it, will do whatever it takes to get there...one of the great things about this sport and a hi-five to those experimenters, otherwise it would get mighty dull out there.

You can also see a few of the ways to fiddle a case to fit your purposes...or your bolt and/or receiver.

If you like to work for your pleasures, pick one of the stranger wildcats...I garoontee you will work diligently for each shot...

If not...pick one of the "standards", which, in many cases, are not far enough behind in ballistics to worry about and spend your time shooting.

I don't think you can go wrong choosing any of the Rigby based offerings(500 AR, AHR and Mbogo) or the Jeffery...they are all simple and quick to make cases for or available to purchase.

Or...any of the Gibbs based cartridges if you have a PH or Mag length receiver, or don't mind fiddling a bit with the case dimensions to fit a LA receiver...a simple matter of shortening the case neck and/or pushing the shoulder back a bit or a combination to fit the mag length and crimp point of the receiver or bullet you have or are going to use.

Of course, when I hit the lotto, I'll be so busy with projects I won't have time to eat, sleep OR post on the web...guess I could hire someone to do that, tho', couldn't I...huh???...the sleeping I mean. Hahahahaha

Luck on your quest.

FOOBAR,

One small correction, the 500 AHR is not Rigby based, it is an improved 500 Jeffery.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
To simplify, a rule for sporting 500 "magazine rifle" bullet nose compatibility:

Box should be 0.800" longer than brass.

3.8" box: 3.000" max brass
3.6" box: 2.800" max brass
3.4" box: 2.600" max brass

I still don't understand what would be so great about a 500/416 Rigby in a .375 H&H length action.

All good stuff, RIP!
As for the .375 H&H length... You might be right about that too.
But I do like a longer than caliber neck, won't back down on that one! :That 3" Mbogo would look so swell with a .600 neck, and still have all the room ever needed...

Bent,
Yep,
a .600-inch long neck would be sweet, but then it would not be the 500 Mbogo.
You are going to have to name that one!

Your right, Scott...missed that when proof reading...what I ment to say and was thinking, and what my fingers typed didn't quite match.

I've been thinking about doing a Jeffery because I can rent the reamer and using Waynes brass because it is much stronger..."500 AHR" has been on my mind the past several months....guess it just popped out...blame it on a senior moment or Alzheimers. Hahahahahaha

Plus I've been playing around with 2.75" - 3" lenghth Gibbs cases during the hot part of the day under the ol' A/C now that the sage rats are more underground than on top.

Luck with your projects.

.. I have been thinking of doing something possibly really neat and possibly pretty dumb .....an 8 lb 500 Acc Rel. . On a Ruger action and 20" stainless McGowan barrel ..Course a stainless action also .... shooting a 450 gr bullet @ 2400-2500 fps... . It is still a brain exercise at the moment ... It would be less expensive than building a 460 Whby or 475 A&M ..... Boomstick has a very good collection of points on the 470 AccRel tho .........

.. So many rounds , so little time ...

Everyone needs a break action to go along with
there other 500s. Get a NEF S&W and We'll have reamer
for my 499/500 HE long case in few weeks. .500" bullet.
No barreling, just a inexpensive gun, just lengthen
chamber, add weight and thick pad.Good for deer and hogs,
of which more guys hunt, than thick skinned African game.
Good supply of 300, 325,350, up to 500gr bullets.
Cases made from rimmed 475 #2 brass, gets super velocities
at much lower pressures, even lower than NE cases.Ed.

Ahhhhh Ed...you can always be counted on to come up with the neatest things.

I've been eyeballing that very thing, but using the 50-140 cartridge and have CH4D cut the sizer for the smaller bullet...but thought it was a bit too long, tho', for a 22" bbl and haven't found a used 500 S&W barrel...or gotten around to sending in my SB-2 action for a re-barrel...so there it still sits while I futz around with the thumbhole stock, larger forearm and additional forend hanger. I also wanted a longer barrel...????

I guess in my present predicement and squashed wallet, your way will be the quickest and least expensive to get my little toe into the "500" club's door. Hahahahahahah

Will you be offering dies or???? Buffalo Arms sells the 3.5" case for $118.00/20....OUCH...but I would guess at the low velo and pressure a case would last forever.

You're a prince among men.

Luck on your projects.

A thread like this makes me REALLY appreciate the "Ignore" button.

Every now and then, I "Show Post" on one of the ignored folk and "whammo" I am reminded of why I "Ignored" them in the first place.

Good for comic relief, though.

..CCM , I got amazed at someone I had on ignore , so much so I took them off ignore.........

quote:

Originally posted by Ralfboy:
It has finally come time for me to have a one, but which one?

I like the long necked Gibbs case, but would rather have the .510 bullet of the Jeffery. To add to the confusion, a small voice keep telling me "You really want a .500 NE." and my practical side demands I examine the .500 ASquare.

I really can't afford them all, so I ask which one?

I have to ask: What's your recoil level, and, how practical do you want the gun? I agree with the .510 bullets, but, I have a .510 pistol, so that helps.

It also raises the issue are some of these new wildcats worth doing? The .510 Wells Express/.500 A2 has been around awhile, and, Pac-Nor has barrels readily avaliable.

quote:

Originally posted by Ralfboy:
It has finally come time for me to have a one, but which one?

I like the long necked Gibbs case, but would rather have the .510 bullet of the Jeffery. To add to the confusion, a small voice keep telling me "You really want a .500 NE." and my practical side demands I examine the .500 ASquare.

I really can't afford them all, so I ask which one?

You, as I have often done, are making this much harder for yourself than it need be.

You never want to be in the position of saying "I shoulda..." (which means "I could have but didn't" rather than "I wish I could have but can't" - often a function of money).

Don't get the 396 when you really want the 427 '69 Vette (or 440-6 instead of the Hemi in a '71 'Cuda).

Forget practicality - if I were practicle, I'd have a .223, 30-06 and 375H&H and be done with it. When you're speaking of this side of .500, it matters more which floats your boat.

So:
Heft a cartridge of each in your hand - which one makes you smile and think "Yeah baby, that's the one!"

If you can't hold examples of the rifles you are thinking about, look at the pictures posted by members here - we've all posted plenty of good pics of toys. I am sure you will see one and point like a two year old in a toy store and think "Yeaaaaahhhhhh - that's the toy I want!"

This kind of decision is entirely visceral - every suggestion here is a great one for the reasons posted but in the end, you must not walk away ever thinking "I shoulda ..." UNLESS that serves as the reason to get a second >.500 toy

Even simpler(maybe)...use a standard set of 505 Gibbs dies and reamer...what's 0.005" between friends...this being as far from a benchrester as you can get. I have/had factory rifles with more slop than that amount in the neck that shot minute of deer all day long.

The 475 NE#2 and 505 Gibbs have about the same case capacity, and the Gibbs cases are half the cost of the 475...that makes this cheapo fat boy happy as a "hornytoad" eating ants. Die prices are the same for both the 505 and 475 NE.

I'm guessing Ed already checked out the Gibbs case and picked the rimmed case for a number of reasons...it would make fixing the ejector a bit simpler along with setting the headspace.

I did crunch some numbers for a "500 Gibbs"-499/500 HE, 22" bbl, Hornady 500gr FB XTP bullet...an EZ 2400fs at ~44kCUP...with several powders.

Who can fault that...this is WILDCATTING at it's BEST...but you have to have freedom of thought to participate....you get stuck in the rut you miss out on all that "comic relief".

Ed...your 585 case necked down would make an AWESOME banger also...on both ends...~2550 at ~44kCUP...Hahahahahah

I'm betting I can come up with a cheap usable solution for a NEF and 500 S&W barrel...don't care if you don't like it or not...so there...thhhzzzzzpt (raspberry)
...hahahahahaha

I'm packing up my 12GaFH SB2 frame within the hour...the 12 ga is wanting a brother to play with.

Luck with your projects.

Rip
Thanks for the education on the case length of 2.85" VS 2.8"
I wondered why the 495 A2 was 2.8 and now I know.

I like the idea of a long neck 510 on the rigby case and I thought a while back about a long neck 500 Acc Rel.
if you lengthen the neck of the 500 Acc Rel to 2.8" you get an old school neck length look.

It would be a sweet round for a 375 HH length gun

500 Acc Rel long?
Needed? no. Cool? Maybe





here is what a 2.8" long neck 500 Accrel would look like with a more of a 416 Rigby neck to caliber ratio. Would be a tad larger than the 495 A2 in capacity

Neat Boomy...and I always appreciate what Rip has to say...

As I've said many times and will probably say a few more times...this wildcatting thing is NEVER really about "need" per se and ALWAYS about "cool" and "gotta see what's over the hill".

I don't "need" another cannon of any caliber, I have several that will do the job several times over...not quite as many as the big dogs... but "need" the mental gymnastics of solving problems and/or having something no one else has...doesn't matter whether it is nothing more than a minor change in some dimension...I DID IT and it's MINE...mistakes, scoffs, whizzing and all.

It is so very cool to have all the tools to do, in a very short time, what took the cartridge inventors of the past many months or even years to complete, and without the internet who would know unless some factory happened to it up and produce it commercially.

Having a computer, software, time and money enough to do most of the projects I want and the ability, once a cartridge is morphed into what fits me within my parameters, to actually MAKE the rifle, however humble...totally amazes me every time I do it. Once those childish qualities cease to exist then it's time to do something else.

Luck on your projects.

Foober...
Yes, but sometimes wildcats don't die and live on to become popular like the Lott ect...
I think the 458 Accrel could live on beyond this forum.
The long neck on the 500 looks kinda cool eh...
Amazing what 2 min on Photoshop can do

Boom, I didn't notice the photoshop work but it does look OK, how about the same thing but with an extention of the body instead


Gents

The 2.65 500 AccRel is NO slouch in the velocity and recoil deparment

I developed a load in my 500 AccRel
535g Bertrum Bullet , 102g of AR2206H (H4895) for an average of 2468fps / 7239sfp and there is still room in the case, primers are NOT flat. Rifle weight including scope about 9.75lb

Impressive little wildcat if you ask me and fits straight into a Ruger M77 7mm Rem Mag with minimal mods.

NO PH action needed here, you can spend the extra $$$$ on your hunt.

regards
S&F

S and F
Yes the 500 Accrel on the Ruger MKII is a potent shootable package that is lacking nothing. I think everyone should try it to see the smile on yer face after shooting it.

Rip did one that is a longer body dummy here in between the 500 Jeffery and 500 Mbogo

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

Hells Bells, Boomy! That is exactly my kind of neck!! Can you make one like that on the Mbogo too? (3", longer neck, shorter body?)