It has finally come time for me to have a one, but which one?

I like the long necked Gibbs case, but would rather have the .510 bullet of the Jeffery. To add to the confusion, a small voice keep telling me "You really want a .500 NE." and my practical side demands I examine the .500 ASquare.

I really can't afford them all, so I ask which one?

Of those choices:

500 A-Square for a bolt action.

500 NE 3" for a double rifle or single shot,
or 500 NE 3-1/4" if you are adventurous.

Best 500 for a bolt action is a 500 Mbogo, of course. It is the 470 Mbogo necked up to .510-caliber, and case lengthened to 3". COL 3.75".

I am still building the only two in the world,
and am secure in the knowledge that I alone have perfected the cartridge for a sporting bolt action "500."
Ain't that special?
No, I don't mean special as in "Special Education."

Rip... I was kinda thinking the 2.85" version of the 500 AR(2.65")/500Mbogo(3")on a mod 70 would be slightly short of perfection but cool.
Kinda like perfecting the 495 A2
Would not do much more than the 500 AR and be less than the perfect 3" Mbogo but a tiny niche.
500 Mbogo 2.85"?

Of all the three options given my pick would be the 500 NE on a double!

boomstick,
I won't be swayed on the bolt action.
I am open to an improved 500 flanged.
What would be your pick for a flanged .510-caliber that could still fit into a Ruger No.1?
The .577 NE rim size is the max allowed.
No limit on length of brass.
Bigger is better for pressure let-off.
Damn the recoil and full speed ahead!

A 577/500 is classy...

There was a 577/500 NE 3-1/8"
and a 577 NE 2-3/4", 3", and 3-1/4".

We NEED a 577/500 NE 3-1/4", new, not done before!
What the hey! Why not a 577/500 NE 3-1/2" made anew, with thick-headed, thick-rimmed brass to compete with the 500 Mbogo?

With base diameter of .660" and rim diameter of .748", and rim thickness of .062", it will work in a Ruger No.1, and make a wickedly potent double rifle.

Might get the low pressure double rifle up to potency of the 500 Mbogo.
That is overkill enough for me.

The .500 A2 is by far the easiest .500 conversion to do, simply buy a CZ 550 in .416 Rigby and have it sent to AHR for rebarreling, smoothing of the action, new set of NECG sights, adding another recoil lug, etc.

In fact, I spoke with Wayne Jacobson of AHR about doing the conversion to one of my rifles and he chuckled at how simple it was.

Lot easier to deal with than the .505 Gibbs or .500 Jeffery, and if the times get tough you can use .460 WBY brass

The best part of all, the whole deal can be done for under $3,000

Probably the best big bore deal going!

There's already a 700/577 ... squeeeesh the neck to .510" and there ya be ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
There was a 577/500 NE 3-1/8"
and a 577 NE 2-3/4", 3", and 3-1/4".

We NEED a 577/500 NE 3-1/4", new, not done before!
What the hey! Why not a 577/500 NE 3-1/2" made anew, with thick-headed, thick-rimmed brass to compete with the 500 Mbogo?

With base diameter of .660" and rim diameter of .748", it will go in a Ruger No.1, and make a wickedly potent double rifle.

Might get the low pressure double rifle up to potency of the 500 Mbogo.
That is overkill enough for me.

The casehead of the 577/500 is .645" Gibbs basicly took the 577/500 and made it proprietary with a .505" bullet to make the 505 Gibbs.

Jack,
If AHR had a 500 Mbogo reamer, they could offer the 500 Mbogo as easily and cheaply as the 500 A-Square.
And it would be a better rifle, in many ways.

Macifej,
A 700/577 NE is interesting but ...
Gong!
Must fit in a Ruger No.1.
Might as well suggest a 12GaFH/500, that would be even bigger and badder!
700 NE is too big, and offers no savings in rifle weight or money!
Oh it would be better than any other flanged "500" but so would be a 577/500NE3.5".
Getting brass made for the 577/500NE3.5" would probably be cheaper than 700 NE brass.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
There's already a 700/577 ... squeeeesh the neck to .510" and there ya be ...

Casehead of the 700 is .780" so can be made into a rimless version using BMG brass and stuff in a PH action whenever they come into fruition.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
There was a 577/500 NE 3-1/8"
and a 577 NE 2-3/4", 3", and 3-1/4".

We NEED a 577/500 NE 3-1/4", new, not done before!
What the hey! Why not a 577/500 NE 3-1/2" made anew, with thick-headed, thick-rimmed brass to compete with the 500 Mbogo?

With base diameter of .660" and rim diameter of .748", it will go in a Ruger No.1, and make a wickedly potent double rifle.

Might get the low pressure double rifle up to potency of the 500 Mbogo.
That is overkill enough for me.

The casehead of the 577/500 is .645" Gibbs basicly took the 577/500 and made it proprietary with a .505" bullet to make the 505 Gibbs.

You are referring to what evolved from the old 577 BP cartridge that was necked down to form 577/500 NE. Yes it had a .645" base.

I am referring to the later 577 NE, a true Nitro Express for the .585 bullets, which indeed had a larger base diameter of .660".

That is the one to neck down to 500 for something new.

Also squishing 50 BMG brass down to 700 NE base diameter of only .780" is a headache without a rim.

Flanged I say! Flanged!

The 500 Mbogo is enough for bolt action.

Need a flanged cartridge to compete with the 500 Mbogo ballistics!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
There was a 577/500 NE 3-1/8"
and a 577 NE 2-3/4", 3", and 3-1/4".

We NEED a 577/500 NE 3-1/4", new, not done before!
What the hey! Why not a 577/500 NE 3-1/2" made anew, with thick-headed, thick-rimmed brass to compete with the 500 Mbogo?

With base diameter of .660" and rim diameter of .748", it will go in a Ruger No.1, and make a wickedly potent double rifle.

Might get the low pressure double rifle up to potency of the 500 Mbogo.
That is overkill enough for me.

The casehead of the 577/500 is .645" Gibbs basicly took the 577/500 and made it proprietary with a .505" bullet to make the 505 Gibbs.

You are referring to what evolved from the old 577 BP cartridge that was necked down to form 577/500 NE. Yes it had a .645" base.

I am referring to the later 577 NE, a true Nitro Express for the .585 bullets, which indeed had a larger base diameter of .660".

That is the one to neck down to 500 for something new.

Since the 600 OK casehead is about 660 in front of the belt you could be making a 500-600 RLG rimmed. You could take the belt off the 600 OK case and neck to 577 or 510 to work in a CZ but seems you want a rimmed for the #1 sooooo
how bout reducing the rim of the 600 NE down to .750" and necking to 500? that gives you plety of headspace and a .697" casehead.

How big can the rim get on a Ruger #1 before radical changes need to be made?

I understand that some gunsmiths will open the action to accept a larger barrel shank. Is this some that needs to be done with a .500 NE, or will the starndard barrel shank be good?

Ralfboy:

Don't you read my posts?
.577 NE rim is the biggest usable in the Ruger No.1.

A 500 NE is an easy fit in the Ruger No.1.

If it will fit in the Ruger No.1, then the double rifle for it will also be easily portable.
Anything bigger is unwieldy.

.510 Van Horn?
Weatherby Brass, standard length, 600 grains Barnes solids at 2150-2200.
Do you really WANT anymore?

GS: Ho hum.

It's either the 500 Mbogo in a bolt action,
or the "577/500 Nitro Express Longer-Is-Better" in a double rifle.

Rip has spoken.
Good bye.

RIP

I was under the impression that it would take some serious reworking of the top of the block and alterations of the stety to allow a rim that big, that's why I asked. I started a new thread to dicuss the action seperately.

The .500 Jeffery has the advantages of a shorter case and thus easier fit into action. Because of the shorter case bullets can be seated further forward. Classic big bore repeater. The .510" 535 gr bullet cruises at 2400 fps. Good size case for modern powders and performs MOA. Rebated rim is a plus, not a negative.

how much do you want to spend?
mcgowen has the 500 AccRel reamers and such .. and will make you an EXCELLENT feeding, from ruger or cz or winchester rifle.

Rodney just had a 416 rigby rebarreled to 500 Ar .. and it can feed 700gr bmg bullets, single, but easy...

it's pretty cool.. and can easily make a rifle that kicks harder than you can stand .. with a LONG throat, to shoot milsurps

jeffe

I would prefer the one with a straighter case.I don't like bottle shaped magnum cartrides.I don't like the idea of firing into my barrel.This is why I like the 458 Lott.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I would prefer the one with a straighter case.I don't like bottle shaped magnum cartrides.I don't like the idea of firing into my barrel.This is why I like the 458 Lott.

that's yet another proof you are an idiot
you offer NO solution, just bullspit

I'd suggest the 500acrel or a plain ol .500NE throated long for .50BMG mil surp pulls. RIP's correct the biggest you can go in a Ruger no.1 is a .577 NE. You better consider recoil reducers in the stock,glass bedding and a muzzel break too. The 500a2 is always a great choice as the brass is easy to come by. I suggest you stay away from crazed wildcats because they will buy you only more grief than their worth.-Rob

Can't the 600 OK be done on a #1?
Also the 577 case necked up to 600

No sense in having a 500 in a bolt action, either.I would think that one cannot shoot a 500 the way he shoots a 375 so why use a bolt action? I'd go with the 500 Nitro Express and the 570gr bullet. I wonder if they make a 570gr A-frame? I would not consider a 500 anything if I were not planning to hunt elephant.

I like plug the Gibbs. The 505 Gibbs looks great and has an honest safari history behind it. Romance of a true British safari ctg. There are plenty of bullets available in 525 to 600gr range . All those 510 BGM bullets have little practical value. For cheep you can buy or make your own cast.

When you hold the Gibbs ctg it in your hand it will make you smile, and dream of another time.

Now if only we could get some Hornady factory load gibbs ammo.... ah

my 3.5c adjusted for inflation.

500AR on a standard lenght action. or a 495 A2 om a 3.65" action.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
I like the Gibbs.

Me too. Maybe not the most practical format but that is changing if the MRC PH action survives. I want a 505-510 and a 505-550 Magnum to go with my 505 Gibbs. But first a 500 AR.

boom stick,
Of course anything that is no bigger than the rim of the 577 NE can be put in a Ruger No. 1,
but the 600OK is not FLANGED, not cricket.
JDJ did his 600 on a 577 case.
I cannot vouch for how smart this is.

D'arcy Echols and a customer of his simply used 50-140 Sharps 3-1/2" brass, 50 basic brass, loaded it to higher pressure and called it the "510 Nitro Express."

Jamison has made 577 NE 3" and 3-1/4".
Jamison has made 577/500 No.2 (2-7/8") and
577/500 NE 3-1/8".

Maybe I just need a 500 Mbogo Flanged: 500 MF
With a screw-on rim, that might qualify as a "crazed wildcat."

The 500 Mbogo is cheap and easy on a CZ:





Sure beats a 500 Jeffery!

And the "special" SIMBA finish on another 500 Mbogo CZ:
Stainless Interrupted Matte Black Alternans

I gotta admit the 500 M'Bogo is a fine looker too.

tiggertate,
You got me thinking about a truly crazed wildcat:

A screw-on rim for the .505 Gibbs necked up to .510.

This will reverse engineer the 577/500 NE 3-1/8"!

Seriously:
Maybe I could live with the rimless .505/510 Gibbs in a Ruger No.1.
Just call it the 500 Gibbs.

If I ever get the screw-on rims it could be called the "500 Gibbs Flanged."

quote:

Originally posted by Ralfboy:
It has finally come time for me to have a one, but which one?

I like the long necked Gibbs case, but would rather have the .510 bullet of the Jeffery. To add to the confusion, a small voice keep telling me "You really want a .500 NE." and my practical side demands I examine the .500 ASquare.

I really can't afford them all, so I ask which one?

I shoot bolt guns, and so of the big 50's my choice is the 500 Jeffery. I'm happy with my 500 Jeffery.

I would only choose the 500 Nitro if I was buying a double rifle or single shot.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
tiggertate,
You got me thinking about a truly crazed wildcat:

A screw-on rim for the .505 Gibbs necked up to .510.

This will reverse engineer the 577/500 NE 3-1/8"!

Seriously:
Maybe I could live with the rimless .505/510 Gibbs in a Ruger No.1.
Just call it the 500 Gibbs.

If I ever get the screw-on rims it could be called the "500 Gibbs Flanged."

I'm way more nuts than you. I bought a used 505-416 reamer 'cause it was a good deal. So now I have to build a 505-416 Gibbs wildcat to justify buying the reamer. Not such a cheap reamer at that.

If that Mbogo had the neck of the Accrel, well hell, I'd be sold....

Bent,
jeffeosso and I worked independently on our designs since early 2006, though the fat was chewed here on line several times.
My reamer was born on 3-26-07 with Dave Manson in attendance for the delivery.

The 500 Mbogo has a longer neck than the 500Accrel.
Let's compare:



and:



500 Accrel: neck1 = neck2 = 0.534", neck length = 0.456"

500 Mbogo: neck1 = neck2 = 0.532", neck length = 0.492"

Very little difference.
500 Mbogo is closer to a full caliber-length neck.
The 500 Mbogo brass is 0.35" longer than the 500 Accrel brass.
The neck diameter is .002" smaller (.001" per side) because of the extra taper of traveling that last .35" of the extra brass length.
Just long enough to make 3.75" COL with most .510 bullets having a nose length of .75" or less.
The CZ box is over 3.8" long.
The 500 Accrel allows for COL of 3.350" and bullet nose of 0.700".
The 500 Mbogo allows for COL of 3.750" and bullet nose of 0.750".
That makes the COL of the 500 Mbogo 0.400" longer than the 500 Accrel.

Of course many standard action boxes may be + 3.400"
and most magnum boxes are +3.800" like the CZ at about 3.840".

The 500 Mbogo may be less crowded in a magnum box, certainly no more crowded, than the 500 Accrel is in a standard box.
3.75" COL in +3.80" box vs. 3.35" COL in a 3.40" box.

The brass is from Qualcart, dies from Redding, and reamer from Manson ...
All work in flawless harmony.

Admit it.
The 500 Mbogo neck is better.

The 500 Mbogo is bigger in capacity than a 500 Nitro Express 3".

It can be loaded to 500 NE3" ballistics at lower pressure than the double rifle, using full case of appropriately slow powder,
or nearly the same loads of faster powder and filler,
as the 500NE3".

One can also load the 500 Mbogo to 50% higher pressure than the 500 NE3", and use any .510 bullet you want.
With the 500 Mbogo case capacity being nearly identical to the 500 Jeffery,
but not crippled by an undercut short action or bolt thrust limitations, or rebated rim, or short neck,
the 500 Mbogo is just "King of the 500 Hill."

The .505 Gibbs is not a "500."

That Ron Berry feller sure does draw pretty.

Has this round left the homage stage?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
....Very little difference.
The brass is from Qualcart, dies from Redding, and reamer from Manson ...
jeffe said- Qualcart brass and manson reamer, 500 AccRel dies aren't exactly mouldy cheese, and are all of $125, and there's about a dozen sets in the field and 2 in my stock,All work in flawless harmony.

Admit it.
The 500 Mbogo neck is better.
jeffe said - The only difference is CHOICE made by the rifle owner, the animal will never know the difference

We did forget one thing .. spec brass can be made from the 416 rigby case for the 500 Accrel, one must order CUSTOM LENGTH brass to get the full 3" of the mbogo, otherwise you are a bit short. Fireform a 416 rigby case in an AR chamber and trim, you are done. Do the same with a 500 Mbogo, and the case is short. Its a fact, and just is such a tiny minor trival thing that is probably beneath contempt and unworthy of notice .. however, since we seem to be picking flyspecs out of the pepper, its "topical"

Of course the 500KX is identical in concept to the 500 Mbogo, though Rich doesn't talk about it much. The KX was shooting before Ron or I got off our duffs and got these rolling.. Its just a wells with no belt.

Its all in fun, fellas

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:



Sure beats a 500 Jeffery!

So are theese the full length Mbogo or made from the Rigby case? Cause the neck looks awfully short....?
Debating whitch one is the better is somewhat silly, as the 2.85 version with the full caliber neck would beat them both!!

A straight wall case gives you all the neck you want.