RGB,

A new complete,[totally HG finished/in the white-on the shelf] authentic featured M98 action for $2k, Id like to see that happen,
...how many units would you require as a minimum order?

Re; SxS rifles....so you consider the extra cost of a side-lock is justified[over a box-lock], for hunting purposes?

By the way, Mr.Searcy values his bolt rifle offering at, $15,000.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
RGB,

how many HRS would it take you to produce an action identical in features and quality - to a complete H&W M98 action?
[making every component in-house] ...and what price would you sell them for?

Since SXS rifles are more elegant and more complex[more costly] to build...and thus more worthy of the prices charged,
it now makes me curious,..there are several makers of HQ sxs rifles based for e.g.; on the H&H side lock design,..but at vastly different base prices,
whats the most you would pay for a new high quality SxS based on the H&H side lock design?
How much is too much?....do you also consider them [like your H&W .375].. too valuable to use?

Seems rather obtuse to insist a custom high end maker build all the parts that go into their gun in order to keep high standards; some of the most successful action makers recocgnize and accept that some parts of the process are performed better by other sources that specialize; for instance- Stiller will tell you they have made bolt bodies for their Remington clones, can make them, and have the equipment. They'll also tell you they use Kiff's because he makes them better than they do! This awareness of limitations or specialties is very respectable in the industry. Just sayin.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
trax -A CNC version of a M98, possibly virtually identical to a H&W assuming a 3d scan was properly converted to G code should take a max of 20 hrs or probably $1500 to make, maybe less. a fair value would be NMT $2k in my estimation. 4k? A marketing guys estimation of what certain people might pay? I firmly believe that should I make such actions, even at $2k they would sit on my bench for years and years. Basically there just isn't the market you think there is. 99% of Big bore hunters and shooters won't pay that price for a custom action and are content using factory actions as the basis for their dream guns and I believe they are correct in that thinking.
With respect to SxS doubles, my max would be in the 15-25k range which is about where B Searcy guns average. I think butch charges a fair value for what he produces. How is it possible to charge $100k plus as does H&H , just because someone uses the technology of the 1800s? Yes they do nice work, but I'm not that interested in more safe queens and gag at the prices.

Dear Robgunbuilder:

I am curious, how do you solve the problem of scraping the receiver above the rails for the happy transmission of the bolt lugs without using a scraper? CNC can't do that, by the way.

Missing that cost in your quotation aren't we?

And on a sidenote, the hubris of actually discerning a "Bozo", and ridding the world of them smacks of a disorder, if you catch my drift. Your thoughts on that score are very effete.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Yale- Scrapper? Are you serious? Don't you mean a SHAPER? Where did you learn anything about machining? Google? Obviously you have no clue how actions are made. You really don't know what you don't know do you? Feeling a little dumb right now are we? BTW I actually have a Bridgeport shaping attachment on my manual mill that I have used in the past to make bolt raceways and guess what, shop time is $75/hr manual or CNC. Feeling even stupider now are we?
Obviously your an effete jerk and not worth any further communication with as you have nothing useful to add to this discussion.
Congrats on making the "bozo" list. I'm sure in real life your just as big an ass as you act here. Your another moron that just got put on "ignore" list. Its a wonderful tool to use when a "Bozo" reveals himself, so I don't have to read your unintelligent dribble. So just STFU!

Trax- Single square bridge or double? H&W profile or something else even more elegant? In the white? I prefer color case myself. When will you send the money? My basic rule is money comes in first then parts go out.
Remember just because someone asks a lot of money for something doesn't mean they sell many of them. This is a tough buisness and just imagine having to deal with customers like "yale" all day long, whining about how long things take and complaining about what they don't understand. Thats the main reason why gunsmithing is just a hobby to me and not something I need to do to make a living.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Yale- Scrapper? Are you serious? Don't you mean a SHAPER? Where did you learn anything about machining? Google? Obviously you have no clue how actions are made. You really don't know what you don't know do you? Feeling a little dumb right now are we? BTW I actually have a Bridgeport shaping attachment on my manual mill that I have used in the past to make bolt raceways and guess what, shop time is $75/hr manual or CNC. Feeling even stupider now are we?
Obviously your an effete jerk and not worth any further communication with as you have nothing useful to add to this discussion.
Congrats on making the "bozo" list. I'm sure in real life your just as big an ass as you act here. Your another moron that just got put on "ignore" list. Its a wonderful tool to use when a "Bozo" reveals himself, so I don't have to read your unintelligent dribble. So just STFU!

You're right, pin dick, I meant shaper.

Funny, though, an amatuer like you actually knows what a shaper is.

Actually, a professional machinist in Lafayette, Colorado set me straight back in 2004 about that little expensive machine.

Still think that you can make 'em for $2,000.00 a pop?

Not too bright are we? Or should I say another internet fake gunsmith?

Bye, bye.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

I say, this has brought out the few, the faithful. Anyone out there got money down on any of these overpriced-pre-production monstrositious beauties from CorBon? We'd love to hear why and what.

No but I'm awaiting a Zastava commercial 98 and imagine it will clean up quite nicely and will go bang every time I press the trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by Stockbroker:


Seems rather obtuse to insist a custom high end maker build all the parts that go into their gun in order to keep high standards; some of the most successful action makers recocgnize and accept that some parts of the process are performed better by other sources that specialize;

If one had to create new custom M98 actions using parts thats RGB didnt manufacture himself, its highly unlikely the action could be purchased all HG-finished and ready to barrel & blue for $2k.

Ive seen several different brands of custom production M98 safety shrouds over the yrs, and none have ever compared to the fit and quality of machining found on the zoofall/Raybourne version.
If anyone can produce a shroud of that grade for the same price as a Dakota or other commonly available brand, id be very surprised...Its been 20yrs and I have not seen it done yet.

...and when it comes to custom BM, Id say Mr.Echols has about the best material and quality.

If anyone can produce a new HG M98 action with component quality equal to those above,....for $2k, id be rather impressed.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Trax- Single square bridge or double? H&W profile or something else even more elegant? In the white? I prefer color case myself. When will you send the money? My basic rule is money comes in first then parts go out.
Remember just because someone asks a lot of money for something doesn't mean they sell many of them. This is a tough buisness and just imagine having to deal with customers like "yale" all day long, whining about how long things take and complaining about what they don't understand. Thats the main reason why gunsmithing is just a hobby to me and not something I need to do to make a living.-Rob

To give you some idea, Id want;
- an action very much modelled from the GMA small ring Kurz [maybe even a SR-std M98 length version]
-8620 alloy
-C-ring
-Integral bolt handle
-integral square bridges
-solid left wall
-slightly longer tang [than orig. M98], with blind screw hole
-all fully HG-finished in the white, ready for barrel-up and blueing.

There could be some minor changes to final order specs, i.e. slight variation in square bridge dimensions, screw instead of pin in safety shroud,
but nothing major, which I gather you could easily cater to using your CAD system.

From when money arrives, how long would it take you to reliably have such available for delivery? [give a realistic honest figure so as not to give customers reasonable justified cause to complain should the action not be available in the time frame indicated]
Id prefer the maker over-estimate delivery time rather than under-estimate it.

What is the minimum number of units that you require to be ordered and paid for, .. for you to take on the task of producing such an action [as specified], for $2k?

Sounds like a Saterlee

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Sounds like a Saterlee

Satterlees are somewhat removed from what I would specify for an M98 design action.
Satterlee is pre-hardened 4140, GMA is post machining case-hardened 8620,they are also lower Rockwell than GMA,
GMA are based on the stdM98 screw spacing, Satt. screw spacing is more obscure,
most Satt. receivers have M70 design triggers,
integral BH feature on Satt. is optional-$$ extra.

Yale- You POS, so your stupid enough to admit you don't even know the difference between a scraper and a shaper? They actually are two different tools idiot! You wouldn't know how to properly make or sharpen a shaper tool for a bolt raceway would you dick head! Here is a clue, its not that easy, that and 100 years of technology is why no one does it that way anymore. there are faster and better ways.obviously you are unaware of them and I would not even try to educate someone as stupid as you are. I've forgotten more than a shithead like you will ever know. If you have a clue about what Im talking about, please post a picture! Come on asshole show us what you know! Let's see a picture of YOU using a SHAPER not a scraper to make a bolt raceway! Here is a clue, please show a picture of your set-up! What no pics available on Google ? Bet we see nothing from you. Embarrassing isn't it! Yup you qualify as a true Bozo and I really feel sorry for you! Yaley! Not posting the pics I demanded proves your a bullshit artist. No getting out of it!
Exposed you for the turd you are didn't I. You and I both know exactly what you are and thats a pitifull asswipe! Here is some sound advice! . Time to up your meds or STOP DRINKING , you've only succeded in embarassing yourself. -Rob

Trax- I see no problems with anything you have specified. I actually like working with 8620 and have the facilities to heat treat and/ or color case harden it. I too like double square bridge M98 actions. Off the top of my head I would want to make at least 100 actions and would have to give careful consideration to the time for production. I agree with you that nothing is worse than over-committing and not delivering on time, i.e. the Montana Arms debacle. As I've said before, this is a hobby for me and not a buisness. When I fully retire in three years, if I really knew there was a market for 100 actions at $2k each, I would actually be very interested in taking on such a project as well as obtaining the necessary licensing. It would actually be fun and profitable considering that I have very little overhead , own the machines ,and my time is my own. I would have to estimate the materials costs but doubt that would exceed $10-15k.I'd have to figure that out carefully. What I'm not going to do is to make 100 actions and have them sitting on my shelf for the next 10 years, have to hound people for payment, or have to discount them to an unacceptable level to move them.That has always been my fear.-Rob

Rob
Would you make a large bolt action say .75" or maybe .95" for a 12 gfh ?
What would your arms company be called? Overkill Arms?
Would be cool to see the prints or specs of what you would design.
I think you would sell 200 pieces right here on AR.
Wishing you all the success in that endeavor

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Yale- Scrapper? Are you serious? Don't you mean a SHAPER? Where did you learn anything about machining? Google? Obviously you have no clue how actions are made. You really don't know what you don't know do you? Feeling a little dumb right now are we? BTW I actually have a Bridgeport shaping attachment on my manual mill that I have used in the past to make bolt raceways and guess what, shop time is $75/hr manual or CNC. Feeling even stupider now are we?
Obviously your an effete jerk and not worth any further communication with as you have nothing useful to add to this discussion.
Congrats on making the "bozo" list. I'm sure in real life your just as big an ass as you act here. Your another moron that just got put on "ignore" list. Its a wonderful tool to use when a "Bozo" reveals himself, so I don't have to read your unintelligent dribble. So just STFU!

You're right, pin dick, I meant shaper.

Funny, though, an amatuer like you actually knows what a shaper is.

Actually, a professional machinist in Lafayette, Colorado set me straight back in 2004 about that little expensive machine.

Still think that you can make 'em for $2,000.00 a pop?

Not too bright are we? Or should I say another internet fake gunsmith?

Bye, bye.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Yale, you have no idea who you are dealing with when you are chastising Robgunbuilder and his knowledge and capabilities.

I have dealt with Searcy, AHR, Lon Paul, and Ryan Breeding, and know several other reputable gun builders in the profession.

Robs machine shop is state of the art, with three Hawes CNC machines, computerized lathes, and various drill presses and milling machines.

I have shot with him on many occasions and I guarantee you he is the real deal. He has built and worked on my firearms and his knowledge from African rifles, Military rifles, Single shot big bores, full auto weapons, handguns and suppressed weapons is second to none.

You have led with your ego and should use him as a source, not an enemy.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Yale- You POS, so your stupid enough to admit you don't even know the difference between a scraper and a shaper? They actually are two different tools idiot! You wouldn't know how to properly make or sharpen a shaper tool for a bolt raceway would you dick head! Here is a clue, its not that easy, that and 100 years of technology is why no one does it that way anymore. there are faster and better ways.obviously you are unaware of them and I would not even try to educate someone as stupid as you are. I've forgotten more than a shithead like you will ever know. If you have a clue about what Im talking about, please post a picture! Come on asshole show us what you know! Let's see a picture of YOU using a SHAPER not a scraper to make a bolt raceway! Here is a clue, please show a picture of your set-up! What no pics available on Google ? Bet we see nothing from you. Embarrassing isn't it! Yup you qualify as a true Bozo and I really feel sorry for you! Yaley! Not posting the pics I demanded proves your a bullshit artist. No getting out of it!
Exposed you for the turd you are didn't I. You and I both know exactly what you are and thats a pitifull asswipe! Here is some sound advice! . Time to up your meds or STOP DRINKING , you've only succeded in embarassing yourself. -Rob

Dear Bobby the Bozo:

Oops, looks like I'm off your ignore list again.

Nope, I ain't no stinkin' machinist, but just an interested bystander.

My only interest in this matter is to explode an old fart riding his hobby too hard, and in doing that while proving that you act like an asinine prick to loads of people on this forum. Am I using language that you can understand at this point? Had to look up "effete" the last time did we?

I've watched you attack people on this forum in a completely classless fashion, and a few days ago I got sick of it. So, I did what I did best when I practiced law. I called you out as a fake.

You ain't no gunsmith.

Funny thing is, I actually did the work up in 2004 to produce an 1898 Mauser copy with the original thumb cut and clip charger in 4140 steel. I found that with the professional advice that I received at the time, some of it from Pete Grisel, who had actually gone into production at Dakota, that I could not meet a reasonable market price point without a minimum production run of over 2000 units initially.

I felt at the time, that my capital outlay would not be worth the tight margin, and that a 2000 unit initial run could leave me with a dusty inventory so to speak.

I fear that what I am discussing is way above your head at this point, so I'll quit.

Looks like I've speared another fake internet gunsmith.

By the way, Bobby Bozo, why don't you discuss your production run with a professional like Pete Grisel. You might learn something.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

quote:

Originally posted by 470drshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Yale- Scrapper? Are you serious? Don't you mean a SHAPER? Where did you learn anything about machining? Google? Obviously you have no clue how actions are made. You really don't know what you don't know do you? Feeling a little dumb right now are we? BTW I actually have a Bridgeport shaping attachment on my manual mill that I have used in the past to make bolt raceways and guess what, shop time is $75/hr manual or CNC. Feeling even stupider now are we?
Obviously your an effete jerk and not worth any further communication with as you have nothing useful to add to this discussion.
Congrats on making the "bozo" list. I'm sure in real life your just as big an ass as you act here. Your another moron that just got put on "ignore" list. Its a wonderful tool to use when a "Bozo" reveals himself, so I don't have to read your unintelligent dribble. So just STFU!

You're right, pin dick, I meant shaper.

Funny, though, an amatuer like you actually knows what a shaper is.

Actually, a professional machinist in Lafayette, Colorado set me straight back in 2004 about that little expensive machine.

Still think that you can make 'em for $2,000.00 a pop?

Not too bright are we? Or should I say another internet fake gunsmith?

Bye, bye.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Yale, you have no idea who you are dealing with when you are chastising Robgunbuilder and his knowledge and capabilities.

I have dealt with Searcy, AHR, Lon Paul, and Ryan Breeding, and know several other reputable gun builders in the profession.

Robs machine shop is state of the art, with three Hawes CNC machines, computerized lathes, and various drill presses and milling machines.

I have shot with him on many occasions and I guarantee you he is the real deal. He has built and worked on my firearms and his knowledge from African rifles, Military rifles, Single shot big bores, full auto weapons, handguns and suppressed weapons is second to none.

You have led with your ego and should use him as a source, not an enemy.

Really?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Yale,
That is Robgunbuilder's hobby: gunbuilding
I believe his trade might have something to do with patent rights on immunotherapy pharmaceutical agents due to his work as a PhD in biochemistry.
Rob has minimal secondary gain in his opinions on rifles or rifle parts sale prices, unless he is looking to unload some of his accumulation.

Dear RIP:

Sorry, I missed your post prior.

Yup, hobby, not a profession, so he can treat people publicly with disdain, and not have to worry about future customers.

Me thinks I smells an old fart, who thinks his word is the last word in knowledge.

Thanks RIP for the post.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Trax- I see no problems with anything you have specified. I actually like working with 8620 and have the facilities to heat treat and/ or color case harden it. I too like double square bridge M98 actions. Off the top of my head I would want to make at least 100 actions and would have to give careful consideration to the time for production. I agree with you that nothing is worse than over-committing and not delivering on time, i.e. the Montana Arms debacle. As I've said before, this is a hobby for me and not a buisness. When I fully retire in three years, if I really knew there was a market for 100 actions at $2k each, I would actually be very interested in taking on such a project as well as obtaining the necessary licensing. It would actually be fun and profitable considering that I have very little overhead , own the machines ,and my time is my own. I would have to estimate the materials costs but doubt that would exceed $10-15k.I'd have to figure that out carefully. What I'm not going to do is to make 100 actions and have them sitting on my shelf for the next 10 years, have to hound people for payment, or have to discount them to an unacceptable level to move them.That has always been my fear.-Rob

your requirement is to have an order of 100 units for it to be available at $2k.

Your not interested in doing a lower number of units[prepaid] production run?

If you did a production run in a lower number of units, perhaps the number of units H&W do in an M98 run ,
what would be your price per unit then?

have you ever made a complete high-grade action before?

Ive seen and heard enough people claim what they can do in regards to building a HQ-CRF action,
but very few ever actually attempt or achieve it.

End result: mostly more disillusioned washed out failures,or scammers,than anything else.
...followed by a trail of disappointed customers.

You may think that other actions on the market are way overpriced, but when a maker only takes a customers money when the product is complete and ready for delivery, it instills one to have faith and confidence in that maker,especially when its not the first time they have operated in that manner...also taking into consideration the other action makers who have taken peoples money upfront, only to result in endless delays, or no delivery at all,
-and sometimes to add insult to injury, customers lost monies as well.


The CNC Trap. ....

Dear Trax:

You are wasting your time with Bobby Bozo.

If you want a sweet action, and want to spend some bucks, then look at Stuart Satterlee's piece.

Getting back to Stockbroker's initial question, I really have no opinion on the Cor-bon action, other than the tired joke that I used about 25 posts up.

By the way, thanks for the link to the article entitled, "The CNC Trap". It was quite informative.

This brings up another point when I initially wanted to produce an 1898 Mauser copy in 2004. After speaking with Pete Grisel at great length about the production difficulties in the early stages of Dakota Arms, we discussed the limitations of CNC production. Your linked article reminded me about those difficulties.

I learned a long time ago, when someone feeds you an absolute, they haven't really or thoroughly thought about the problem at hand. That became quite obvious from some of the posts above.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Wow, at last a reference to the origin of the discussion! THanks all!

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Trax- Single square bridge or double? H&W profile or something else even more elegant? In the white? I prefer color case myself. When will you send the money? My basic rule is money comes in first then parts go out.
Remember just because someone asks a lot of money for something doesn't mean they sell many of them. This is a tough buisness and just imagine having to deal with customers like "yale" all day long, whining about how long things take and complaining about what they don't understand. Thats the main reason why gunsmithing is just a hobby to me and not something I need to do to make a living.-Rob

Rob, you are obviously a very talented rifle maker. Do you have any photos of your work or can you snap a couple. I'd like to see them. Thanks.

Com'on y'all, anyone with any experience around here knows Rob's gunbuilding hobby is sort of like Tony Stark's Ironman hobby.
We have seen the pictures before.
Seriously now, no offense meant by the comicbook movie reference (Avengers), but there is just no better analogy,
for those who disdain a hobbyist as amateur.

I tried the Satterlee route for a stainless magnum Mauser 98 action once upon a time.
Luckily, I got a refund eventually, and I will never try that again.
It will have to be in my hands before I part with cash for an action again.
I will happily add the cost of travel for personal pick up.

It will also have to be stainless, just to be significantly different from many other options.

No mention of Prechtl yet?
I once picked up a complete rifle, brand new, SIGArms/Blaser/"Mauser Banner" M98 Magnum at the Cabela's Sidney, Nebraska store for under $6K.
It was in 450 Dakota with a 14.75" LOP so they must have had it languishing too long in the rack. Suited me fine, just 1/4" too long in LOP.
That rifle did not "start at $40K!"
That rifle used a Prechtl action.
Mr. Prechtl signed the test target that came with the rifle.

I had to unignore Trax to see the article Yale is referring too.
That article has the tone of Terry Wieland, but not the supercilious grammar. Who is the author of "The CNC Trap"?
It is slanted by an agenda, misleading here and there, just like with Terry Wee-wee-land.

Rob: Try to keep it on ignore, and get back to the superhero-hobbyist gun building.
Somebody has got to make a stainless M98 Magnum action available sooner than 5 years (or never) after order date.
Better yet, keep it a secret until it is on the shelf ... Mission Impossible?

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:

quote:

Originally posted by 470drshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Yale- Scrapper? Are you serious? Don't you mean a SHAPER? Where did you learn anything about machining? Google? Obviously you have no clue how actions are made. You really don't know what you don't know do you? Feeling a little dumb right now are we? BTW I actually have a Bridgeport shaping attachment on my manual mill that I have used in the past to make bolt raceways and guess what, shop time is $75/hr manual or CNC. Feeling even stupider now are we?
Obviously your an effete jerk and not worth any further communication with as you have nothing useful to add to this discussion.
Congrats on making the "bozo" list. I'm sure in real life your just as big an ass as you act here. Your another moron that just got put on "ignore" list. Its a wonderful tool to use when a "Bozo" reveals himself, so I don't have to read your unintelligent dribble. So just STFU!

You're right, pin dick, I meant shaper.

Funny, though, an amatuer like you actually knows what a shaper is.

Actually, a professional machinist in Lafayette, Colorado set me straight back in 2004 about that little expensive machine.

Still think that you can make 'em for $2,000.00 a pop?

Not too bright are we? Or should I say another internet fake gunsmith?

Bye, bye.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Yale, you have no idea who you are dealing with when you are chastising Robgunbuilder and his knowledge and capabilities.

I have dealt with Searcy, AHR, Lon Paul, and Ryan Breeding, and know several other reputable gun builders in the profession.

Robs machine shop is state of the art, with three Hawes CNC machines, computerized lathes, and various drill presses and milling machines.

I have shot with him on many occasions and I guarantee you he is the real deal. He has built and worked on my firearms and his knowledge from African rifles, Military rifles, Single shot big bores, full auto weapons, handguns and suppressed weapons is second to none.

You have led with your ego and should use him as a source, not an enemy.

Really?

REALLY!

Rob has designed the 600 OK cartridge and built several rifles in the 600 OK cailber. Jamison brass has put his initials on the headstamp of their brass, and AHR is now manufacturing rifles in this caliber.

He advises gun makers on how to utilize their CNC machines and has many friends who are professional machine shop operators.

I would trust his expertise and experience over any of the current custom rifle builders that are currently building custom firearms.

He does it on a hobby basis because his profession is of a micro-biologist, and the money is much better than a gunbuilder.

You challenged one with much more technical knowledge than you possess.

Correction: Robgunbuilder's PH.D. is in ORGANIC CHEMISTRY.
He got that about the time I finished pre-med.
Organic Chemistry was the traditional weed-out course of pre-med.
I got an A for first semester and a C for second semester of organic chemistry in pre-med. Boring as hell.
They still let me into medical school because I had a 99th-percentile score on the science section of the old MCAT, "Medcat."
Anyone weird enough to get a PH.D. in organic chemistry has got to be cut some slack on social interactions,
especially one who has been involved with the development of 17 different pharmaceuticals and medical devices.

Application of genius: Getting your paycheck from a trillion-dollar industry, and having hobby fun with guns makes a lot more sense than vice versa.

When it comes to building a new M98 action, talk is extremely cheap. My advice would be to build one, offer it up for third-party inspection and then decide how much money you would want to build the next one.

All the degrees in the world and all the milling machines money can buy don't mean jack until the first action is produced.

quote:

Originally posted by 470drshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:

quote:

Originally posted by 470drshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Yale- Scrapper? Are you serious? Don't you mean a SHAPER? Where did you learn anything about machining? Google? Obviously you have no clue how actions are made. You really don't know what you don't know do you? Feeling a little dumb right now are we? BTW I actually have a Bridgeport shaping attachment on my manual mill that I have used in the past to make bolt raceways and guess what, shop time is $75/hr manual or CNC. Feeling even stupider now are we?
Obviously your an effete jerk and not worth any further communication with as you have nothing useful to add to this discussion.
Congrats on making the "bozo" list. I'm sure in real life your just as big an ass as you act here. Your another moron that just got put on "ignore" list. Its a wonderful tool to use when a "Bozo" reveals himself, so I don't have to read your unintelligent dribble. So just STFU!

You're right, pin dick, I meant shaper.

Funny, though, an amatuer like you actually knows what a shaper is.

Actually, a professional machinist in Lafayette, Colorado set me straight back in 2004 about that little expensive machine.

Still think that you can make 'em for $2,000.00 a pop?

Not too bright are we? Or should I say another internet fake gunsmith?

Bye, bye.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Yale, you have no idea who you are dealing with when you are chastising Robgunbuilder and his knowledge and capabilities.

I have dealt with Searcy, AHR, Lon Paul, and Ryan Breeding, and know several other reputable gun builders in the profession.

Robs machine shop is state of the art, with three Hawes CNC machines, computerized lathes, and various drill presses and milling machines.

I have shot with him on many occasions and I guarantee you he is the real deal. He has built and worked on my firearms and his knowledge from African rifles, Military rifles, Single shot big bores, full auto weapons, handguns and suppressed weapons is second to none.

You have led with your ego and should use him as a source, not an enemy.

Really?

REALLY!

Rob has designed the 600 OK cartridge and built several rifles in the 600 OK cailber. Jamison brass has put his initials on the headstamp of their brass, and AHR is now manufacturing rifles in this caliber.

He advises gun makers on how to utilize their CNC machines and has many friends who are professional machine shop operators.

I would trust his expertise and experience over any of the current custom rifle builders that are currently building custom firearms.

He does it on a hobby basis because his profession is of a micro-biologist, and the money is much better than a gunbuilder.

You challenged one with much more technical knowledge than you possess.

Great! Do you have any pictures?

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
When it comes to building a new M98 action, talk is extremely cheap. My advice would be to build one, offer it up for third-party inspection and then decide how much money you would want to build the next one.

All the degrees in the world and all the milling machines money can buy don't mean jack until the first action is produced.

Im with you, it would be beneficial to produce a sampler [or small handful of actions] to demonstrate what one is capable of and the quality one was intending to deliver, should one decide to take on further production.

I cannot understand RGB quoting on 100 units when RGB honestly believes[fears!] that there is no such market for that many actions, that they would just sit on the shelf for 10yrs, because no one wants them at $2k per unit.
Its sound like RGB would not really want to venture into making that many units, so the $2k price estimate, seems rather meaningless.

Maybe RGB can be kind enough to quote-$ on a scale of production more realistic-relative to a skilled hobbyist action-maker and product demand levels that he has actual faith in,...perhaps something like 3,5 or 10 units?, then more if demand establishes itself......I reasonably gather that they would be priced well above $2k.

and that may help explain why GMA,FZH,Prechtl,H&W- are priced the way they are.

Well, I assume at least one of these has been produced, and all the crude circular milling /tooling marks left on it below the wood line of the action
are there so as to give it some bite into the glass bedding or wood bedding?
Cruder than a CZ. CZ uses some obviously intended serrations/texturing on the bottom of the action.

Trax- I would have absolutely no interest in making less than 100 actions period. You asked and I told you. If you dont like that answer tough. I have all the actions I need and am not interested in making samples.
Go buy the CorBon, H&W etc. Knock yourself out and let us know how you make out. Your circuitous arguments are wasting my time and getting nowhere fast. If you can't fork up the money Dont waste my time.It certainly had flushed out some new bozos though! -Rob
Rob

Personally I like ruger MKII actions.

With a new trigger some smoothing up they work really well.

I don't think smiths like them because they can't charge a arm and leg for them.

Like they do to bring a 98 up to modren standards.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Personally I like ruger MKII actions.

With a new trigger some smoothing up they work really well.

I don't think smiths like them because they can't charge a arm and leg for them.

Like they do to bring a 98 up to modren standards.

Oh Dear; a turn for the worse- Rugers? Really? Did you have to? No, I reckon thanks for pitching in...I think-(shudder...Ruger...)

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Trax- I would have absolutely no interest in making less than 100 actions period. You asked and I told you. If you dont like that answer tough. I have all the actions I need and am not interested in making samples.
Go buy the CorBon, H&W etc. Knock yourself out and let us know how you make out. Your circuitous arguments are wasting my time and getting nowhere fast. If you can't fork up the money Dont waste my time.It certainly had flushed out some new bozos though! -Rob
Rob

If anything is wasting time, it would be when a person like you has expressed interest to make something he clearly believes the market will not purchase...You figured a price of $2k based on a production number[100 units] that you also said you don't believe is worth producing because of your belief[actual fear] that there is no demand for such quantities.

You don't want to produce a lesser number,fine, thats your prerogative,.. Yet you disparage the price other premium action makers charge for a product they actually produce & deliver in the real world, not simply in their mind like you have.
Nor will you indicate what you would charge if you did a more realistic-substantially lower number of units production run, much like the other reputable premium action manufacturers do.
I suspect your price would then be much nearer to the other reputable established manufacturers prices....Yet they don't require-demand payment up front.

Your self aggrandising hypotheticals on how much more efficient you are than other successful real world M98 action manufacturers, don't hold much substance to sensible down to earth folk.

If im correct, you have never actually made such an action, and intentionally quote based on unrealistic high unit production figures, knowing full well that such a large order will never eventuate...I suppose that conveniently gets you off the hook from having to live up to what you claim you can do.

In order to be taken seriously, a more rational person, realistic to market demand, would indicate how much they would charge for such an action [vs the other established individual manufacturers], on the basis of producing a substantially lower number of units than 100.

Another point, If you have never even made one such unit, why would anyone trust you enough to forward you $200k to make 100 units?

...now be honest, who's the real bozo?

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Trax- I would have absolutely no interest in making less than 100 actions period. You asked and I told you. If you dont like that answer tough. I have all the actions I need and am not interested in making samples.
Go buy the CorBon, H&W etc. Knock yourself out and let us know how you make out. Your circuitous arguments are wasting my time and getting nowhere fast. If you can't fork up the money Dont waste my time.It certainly had flushed out some new bozos though! -Rob
Rob

If anything is wasting time, it would be when a person like you has expressed interest to make something he clearly believes the market will not purchase...You figured a price of $2k based on a production number[100 units] that you also said you don't believe is worth producing because of your belief[actual fear] that there is no demand for such quantities.

You don't want to produce a lesser number fine, thats your prerogative,.. Yet you disparage the price other premium action makers charge for a product they actually produce & deliver in the real world, not simply in their mind like you have.

Your self aggrandising hypotheticals on how much more efficient you are than other successful real worldM98 action manufacturers don't hold much substance to sensible down to earth folk.

...now be honest, who's the real bozo?

On that note Trax :

Rob has a known name and address----

So who are you and where are you?

Ante up big shot--

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:

On that note Trax :

Rob has a known name and address----

So who are you and where are you?

Ante up big shot--

SSR

Others on AR know I'm real, because they have accepted my money through business conducted via the AR forum.
If ever you do business with me, you can have my details. In the meantime, you will have to continue suffering your usual situation of remaining mostly insignificant.

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Trax- I would have absolutely no interest in making less than 100 actions period. You asked and I told you. If you dont like that answer tough. I have all the actions I need and am not interested in making samples.
Go buy the CorBon, H&W etc. Knock yourself out and let us know how you make out. Your circuitous arguments are wasting my time and getting nowhere fast. If you can't fork up the money Dont waste my time.It certainly had flushed out some new bozos though! -Rob
Rob

If anything is wasting time, it would be when a person like you has expressed interest to make something he clearly believes the market will not purchase...You figured a price of $2k based on a production number[100 units] that you also said you don't believe is worth producing because of your belief[actual fear] that there is no demand for such quantities.

You don't want to produce a lesser number fine, thats your prerogative,.. Yet you disparage the price other premium action makers charge for a product they actually produce & deliver in the real world, not simply in their mind like you have.

Your self aggrandising hypotheticals on how much more efficient you are than other successful real worldM98 action manufacturers don't hold much substance to sensible down to earth folk.

...now be honest, who's the real bozo?

On that note Trax :

Rob has a known name and address----

So who are you and where are you?

Ante up big shot--

SSR

Maybe Rob should with a picture? He seems to be ignoring me.

And just because youve sent money does not mean you cannot embelish such a lavish lifestyle .this is the internet anyone can be anything they want.

Much of the embellishing on these forums has come from the [supposed] riflesmiths who repeatedly don't live up to their claims and legal obligations....and its not unusual for them to get support from those with the same lack of scruples.

I am not the market for a $5000 enhanced M70.

Honestly even if I had $20,000-50,000 that wasn't tied to anything and I wanted an new custom rifle I would buy one based on a new production Mauser 98 with integral mounts.

Whilst I prefer the lines of a M98 over that of the M70 are there any plans to utilize some kind of integral ring or rail system for a scope mount?

Can the same action be had with a 90 degee bolt?

How many does it hold in 500 Jefferies?