Butch, PM in your box.

Jim

PMs answered.
Butch

Just wondering out loud..........
If I had the dough to buy 30 actions
from custom makers like Stuart, would I do
it, even if doing 30 got reasonable delivery time.
When same dollars..... 3-5 times as many actions from
MRC and guns from CZ or Ruger, to rebarrel
for big bores....ED

There are many reasons to enjoy AR, not the least of which is following a thread wherein knowledgeable, thoughtful men post on issues concerning bolt-action receivers that cost more than a NIB Ed Brown Express in 375 H&H...the whole damn rifle.[/I]

Good Lord!

Have fun with this, guys. Not my problem, and not gonna' be. I admire you, but no envy.

The point isn't getting money back, it is the cost.
Who else makes the equivalent of the MRC PH,
without the thing costing more than a
new car. They aren't worth that without being
plated with 4 oz of gold.....Ed

I dont see Timans responce as snob appeal.
Reality is, there are big buck folk out there with bucks to burn,and some want nothing less than an true premium M98,and will pay what ever it costs to get it,, even the most expensive of such is loose change to such people...Good corner of the market if you can grab it.

If one was to order an WR,H&H or Purdey bolt rifle, they wouldnt be considering one on an CZ receiver, would they??
Now, I dont mind a more budget minded rifle on an CZ,however,.. If im to throw heavy cash into a project, its going to be M98 based.

Trax,

I KNOW Rigby of London and Westley Richards have used many CZ actions to build rifles with! Those rifles cost as much as a new Corvette too!!

Yes I know, I think Ive seen the M70 used also somewhere by a British maker;
For me though,at that upper echelon,im not lookn to save money,
-Its M98 or nothn.

Another angle is for SATTERLEE to charge measurably MORE per action.

Maybe DOUBLE. Maybe loose 70% of his orders, but delays on delivery

would go way down, and the clear money to SATERLEE might be the same

as it is right now since profit margin would be MUCH IMPROVED.

BUT... Walmart proved you can make BILLIONS in profit if you sell

tons of stuff that is simply acceptable to many people for a very

small profit per item.

TRAX,

What you call HEAVY cash I might call a HOUSE!

Or what you might call HEAVY I might call just

a bit over blase'.

For me HEAVY is five thousand for one rifle. Up

to $1500, run of the mill, over 1500 but under

5000, I call decent to Quite decent, depending

on which end of that $3500 range we're in. These

adjectives are useless without honest numbers.

Satterlee gets a lot of money for his actions

and all I've heard is they are very, very fine.

I might very well go for one if it could be in

my hands today and have a complete rifle done for

another 3-4.5K, maybe in a kevlar stock. Like I

said, these estimates are honest for me.

Also when you say model 98 or nothin' do you mean

along the lines of:

http://www.golmatic.de/Waffen_...arf_en/system_en.htm

or just something with metal work done so it has

the classic Mauser looks, especially from the top and

bolt handle side?

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
Like ive stated we have never had trouble getting an action from Mr.Satterlee we placed our order sci reno in january client was getting upset placed a call and if memory serves me right I placed the call in may and in june we had it

Why is there no one commenting on this? This, and the fact that M98 can't get his paid for actions should be the focal point of this thread.

GUYS
after i got home this morning i rang Satterlee up , and asked why my actions are not ready...to cut a long story short we negotiated on the 19 th of December 2009 as the finishing date for my 3 actions.i will keep every body updated

Amoung the many other issues i had i asked stuart why was it that EXPRESS RIFLE ordered his action at SCI and got it in june after a call from EXPRESS rifle in May.....i got told by Stuart he has not heard of and does not know who EXPRESS rifle is, he said he never made a action for express rifle So EXPRESS RIFLE, if i can ask ,and if im not impinging upon your privacey , can you identify your self by your real name , so stuart can deny or admit to supplying to you a fully complete action within a 6 mounth period, while my self having paid in full 4 years ago , AND WITH THE PROMISE OF HAVING MY ACTIONS COMPLETED IN A TIME FRAME OF 6-8 WEEKS I STILL DO NOT HAVE THEM COMPLETED
Daniel

BFJ,

I mean authentic M98 feature&function receivers like; Prechtl,Satterlee,HartmannWeiss,Brno21.
In todays cost of living, I dont see Satterlee receivers as alot of money, specially when one considers the experience,skill & capital investment required to produce them.
To tell the truth I dont need any more guns, I can take them or leave them.
Id buy a Satterlee simply to support the trade,..individuals who go to such effort to produce such an item deserve support.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
Like ive stated we have never had trouble getting an action
from Mr.Satterlee we placed our order sci reno in january
client was getting upset placed a call and if memory serves
me right I placed the call in may and in june we had it

Why is there no one commenting on this? This, and the fact
that M98 can't get his paid for actions should be the focal
point of this thread.

I've sent a PM to E. R. to ask about this, NO RESPONSE!

By the way TRAX, Prechtl is
http://www.golmatic.de/Waffen_...arf_en/system_en.htm
as I posted above. Thanks for your answer.

BFJ,

There is a German action manufacturer whom I had posted about on the Nitroexpress Forums, who manufactures Mauser actions from scratch the traditional way: http://www.fzh-gmbh.de/root/fzh-ws.pdf The actions are used by some of Germany's top gunmakers including Theo Jung, H J Walther and Mark Ganske AFAIK and they may be one more option for you to consider if you are planning to go to the length of importing an action. Also, Remier Johannsen now produces his own actions in Germany http://www.johannsen-jagd.de/d.../katalog/katalog.php and does not get them from Prechtl like he used to. There are other manufacturers in Europe in Italy, Germany, Norway etc al making good stuff and at prices that are comparable to what is available in the USA for custom actions. You won't have a problem finding something to make you happy if you look.

Good hunting!

22WRF
WRONG WRONG WRONG
Daniel

MEHULKAMDAR
i was in europe two years ago. and went to a lot of the top gun makers like prechtal H&W JOHAANSON etc etc, there actions are good real good but still not in the class of what satterlee makes
Danel

MEHUL,
Thanks alot! As usual you've contributed in a beneficial way.

22WRF,

Your above post about an order of 30 actions makes sense to me.
BUT... there is a track record established by SATTERLEE that he
now needs to overcome. As I've said in the past MY CREDIT RATING
IS STRONG. I'd put money into an escrow account and agree for it
to be released to SATTERLEE when my action was in my hands or my
rifle maker's hands. You project we could have actions in hand
within a month or two. I'm game.

22WRF
you need to work within your limitations , build your capital up slowly but on good footings, you dont become a millionare over night , you need to build up to it, the same with a business build up your business, and honesty is the first prerequeste.....need i say more
Daniel

You can do what I had to do when the wolves were at the door several years ago. I tightened my belt and worked harder. I had 2 full time jobs and mowed lawns on the weekend. Was it fun and did it stoke my ego, NO! I did work with my creditors and got caught up.
Butch

If 30 guys collectively put about 100K into an escrow account at a given bank. And

the bank was told the money was to cover a 95K loan to SATTERLEE that would

be payable in 90 days or less, because SATTERLEE IS GOING TO MAKE AND DELIVER

30 actions within that time, that idea would not fly? I'm just asking, I've been in

public employment my whole life and I don't know business. But if a bank can see

SATTERLEE has the machines needed and he shows his past clients testimonials about

quality and satisfaction, and there's 30 orders in hand, and the money has been

put up already by the buyers, where's the grounds for the bank to deny this plan?

They'd make over 5% profit [5K] within 90 days? I've allowed for $3,166.66 per action

to SATTERLEE.

I would quess that the yearly output at best is 30 actions a year and that is optimistic guess.

quote:

Originally posted by J_Zola:
I would quess that the yearly output at best is 30 actions a year and that is optimistic guess.

People are saying SATTERLEE contends for the world's TOP SPOT quality wise!

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Very few people are going to get one of Stuart's actions unless he gets a considerable number of orders at one time....

Is this something Stuart has told you, or just your own hypothetical working model?
the idea of one man producing 30 complete premium actions ready to go in 90 days, is surreal.
There are necessary time involved tasks that economies of scale just cant overcome.

quote:

the idea of one man producing 30 complete premium actions ready to go in 90 days, is surreal

BigFiveJack,that quote is my point. He would need at least a year to get it done.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
...with that, I bid you all good bye as I'm all finished with A/R.

This place so chucked full of antagonists it's not even funny, not to mention a huge waste my time.
Maybe catch some of you on the flip side.
Later on.
Stuart Satterlee/ Aka/ Timan

Stuart,

Do you find it even remotely interesting that your most vocal antagonists are the very people who have paid you considerable sums of money for goods and services you didn't deliver? These folks (myself included) didn't cause your problems, YOU caused your own problems. These antagonists were people who trusted you and wanted to see you succeed, they ponied up money to give you a chance and you repaid them with lies.

You find yourself dogged by antagonists because you're dishonest, lazy and stupid. When you talk yourself into a corner you leave it up to your wife to apologize and make excuses; so I guess you're also a coward.

Running a business takes multiple talents you obviously don't have. Self discipline is key. It's time you did everyone (your family, your customers and yourself) a favor and find a real job.

Catch you on the flip side.

Forrest

"It's time you did everyone (your family, your customers and yourself) a favor and find a real job."

I disagree.

Its time Stuart did everyone (his family, his customers, and himself) a favor and finished the actions that people have paid for, and then make quite a few more for those who would like to own one.

quote:

Originally posted by M 98:
GUYS
after i got home this morning i rang Satterlee up , and asked why my actions are not ready...to cut a long story short we negotiated on the 19 th of December 2009 as the finishing date for my 3 actions.i will keep every body updated

That is great news! The will be ready this week, correct?

I can't wait to see the finished product.

quote:

Me TOO imp.

Nice going BigFive, My wife saw the abbreviation and started using it. As if that was not bad enough, My 26 year old daughter picked it up.

Could be worse, she could call me the same names my first wife did !

Is 22WRF really Stuart?

I kind of doubt it, look at the difference in the grammar,verb usage and spelling; they are both highly distinctive. You never know though.

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
Is 22WRF really Stuart?

You have to be kidding me.

Stuart is Stuart. My name is Kevin.
I am just a fan of Stuart's actions and would like to buy one from him. Can't if he isn't in business anymore.

quote:

the idea of one man producing 30 complete premium actions ready to go in 90 days, is surreal.
There are necessary time involved tasks that economies of scale just cant overcome.

I agree, even surreal does not do the concept justice.

The machine work could probably be done at the rate of one per week, but there is heat treating, polishing, feeding, then final assembly. Working this close to maximum output is fraught with hazards. One would have to be incredibly good at project management to turn out one action a week indefinitely .
I know what goes into making an action from billet instead of castings; believe me, it is a lot of work especially if you are working by yourself; you can not babysit three, possibly four machines at once. To achieve a sustained output of one action per week would require time management and logistics skills far beyond what most of us have. The only way to do this is to hire someone or outsource parts; both of which require money. If you do not have money, it is exponentially harder to make more money quickly. This is why the custom action makers we see start up are likely to grow slowly, if at all. Refer to my earlier post with the production requirements to result in a $30K salary.

I feel the absolute best an individual could hope for would be an average output of one per 10 days with chunks of money coming in about every 90 days. Not many individuals starting up have pockets that deep. So one takes deposits to make up for shallow pockets and wagers that none of the tooling is going to break, none of the machines are going to malfunction, the heat treating service will be prompt, sickness will not happen, and none of the other little things Murphy does will keep you from meeting your goal.

This works until something happens. Since you are already at maximum output, and up against the wall monetarily, your schedule leaves no room for error, it is impossible to expand production, and don’t even think about shutting down for preventative maintenance- which sets you up for failure in the future. To make matters worse, since you do not have the capability to increase production, once you are behind, you will never catch up; it is impossible , you are already maxxed out – as my grandfather used to say “the hurrider I go, the behinder I get [sic]”. I suspect it is the same in all businesses, not just custom action building.

Unfortunately most businesses fail because of poor management; I mismanaged two before I was 21 and then realized I was not cut out to run a business. Go look at the figures posted on the IRS site and see the staggering percent of SBA loan financed business that fail JUST for falling behind on 940 or 941 taxes ( payroll taxes). Talk about being a high-stakes gambler; too rich for my blood! For most, the only way to go is OPM (Other People’s Money) whether it be a SBA loan or taking large deposits; sadly, neither seem to have a good track record of success.

My hat is really off to those of you that make it work and have satisfied customers; you are a better man than I.

quote:

Originally posted by impingement:

quote:

Me TOO imp.

Nice going BigFive, My wife saw the abbreviation and started using it. As if that was not bad enough, My 26 year old daughter picked it up.

Could be worse, she could call me the same names my first wife did !

I got a very healthy laugh from that post IMPY!!!

quote:

I got a very healthy laugh from that post IMPY!!!

Yeah, I just got an email from my wife, she has changed my my name in her address book to "Mr. Imp Etuous"

I guess you have to laugh, I am.

Just be glad she didn't change it to "Mr. Imp Otent".

Ouch!!

Rich

X2

I would have to buy more clothes if that was the case; I would have to look impotent!

oops! meant to say "the lustrous Pote Ntate".

Rich
it's Monday, don't ask for too much

quote:

Was your post aimed at me Stu?
Butch

Probably me Butch, oh well,