OK, the title is a little inflammatory just to get attention. And technically it doesn't belong in the Big Bore Forum, BUT, this is actually another 375 Ruger thread!!!!

The 375 Ruger is my chosen "African Elk Cartridge". I think its just what the Doctor (not referring to RIP ) ordered for an all purpose elk gun (unless shooting x-canyon is your idea of elk hunting).

So, I was admiring a 375 Ruger cartridge last nite...comparing it to my (meager) cartridge collection. Its a great looking cart...looks great next to a 416 Taylor...reminiscent of a beltless 375 Taylor (of course).

Anyway, comparing it to other great elk cartridges (the 338 Win Mag, 35 Whelen, 9.3x62, etc, etc) it dawned on me....why the heck would anyone build/or buy a new 9.3x62 (in NA anyway) with the 375 Ruger available??

What does the 9.3x62 offer that the 375 Ruger can't match or better?

Especially if there is a chance that you might want to hunt cape buffalo with it down the line (it will be legal in places where the 9.3 is not).

I have always wanted a 9.3x62 but came to the realization that the 375 Ruger has made it redundant for me. Just wondering if this is a common sentiment?

Cheers,
Canuck

A well established track record of availability and a reasonable user base. The .375 Ruger might well become the next standard cartridge in its size range; on technical merits it probably should. But for the time being, the 9.3 and the .375 H&H are the standards.

Finally, most standard magazines for the 9.3 will hold 4 or 5 rounds without modification. If you are shooting solids where the additional energy of the Ruger is moot, the 9.3 is actually a better choice, if only for that single reason.

The .375Ruger is the worlds best cartridge in America...

quote:

I have always wanted a 9.3x62 but came to the realization that the 375 Ruger has made it redundant for me. Just wondering if this is a common sentiment

nope! still getting a vz chambered in the 9.3 x 62 - how can one ignore its reliability and history?

quote:

Originally posted by analog_peninsula:
A well established track record of availability and a reasonable user base. The .375 Ruger might well become the next standard cartridge in its size range; on technical merits it probably should. But for the time being, the 9.3 and the .375 H&H are the standards.

Finally, most standard magazines for the 9.3 will hold 4 or 5 rounds without modification. If you are shooting solids where the additional energy of the Ruger is moot, the 9.3 is actually a better choice, if only for that single reason.

Well said, I will second those comments.

Canuck, I don't agree!

While I don't have a .375 Ruger, I do have both a .375 H&H as well as a 9.3X62 Mauser. I have really come to prefer the 9.3 over the .375. Like the .375 Ruger, the 9.3 makes up into a nice, light portable rile but it has a greater magazine capacity and I believe that it will dispatch game just as well as the more powerful cartridge but with much less recoil. This should be especailly true with the high quality modern bullets that we now have available for the 9.3 from the companies like Woodleigh, Swift, and Nosler. If you don't believe that, just read some of the posts here and on the internet by Ganyana who has had wide experience with the 9.3. Despite what you have been lead to believe, prior to WWII the 9.3 was far more popular in Africa than the legendary .375 H&H. For me anyway, given the choice between a .375 Ruger and a 9.3X62, I would select the latter cartridge and I wish the Ruger had chambered it instead. However, I also understand that bigger and faster, while not always desirable, it what sells nowadays.

Dave

Well, I think it's the Swan Song for the 9.3x64. As for the x62, it has it's own niche in life. It'll be around for a while yet. Less recoil and "bang flops" will keep selling it.

Good stuff guys. My intent here was just to stimulate more discussion. Please keep in mind that I am not 'dissin' the 9.3x62! I am a fan. Just, if the 375 Ruger catches on and is chambered widely, etc, etc, with the exeption of the extra cart down in standard rifles, it can do EVERYTHING the 9.3x62 does and more (including low recoil). It won't prevent the 9.3x62 from doing all the things it always did, but (again, provided it gets a following and becomes a stable factory cart in a few years time) it sure fills the same niche plus.

If I get a chance, I'll take a pic of the two carts sidexside.

Cheers,
Canuck

Canuck,
I agree with you, as far as the average person. Now rifle loonies are a whole nother breed.

The 375 Ruger is a go everywhere, do everything cartridge. Just makes sense to me. The choice between it and and H&H is very simple for me.
The rifle that it can be housed in is the big difference.

The main problem I see, is the simple fact that owning a 375 Ruger and another rifle in the 270-30 caliber range is all one would need.

Saying that, I am probably going to have a 9.3 x64 Brenneke built. I want a European style rifle to go with my hogback 416 Rigby. The Brenneke is a classic choice for that style of rifle.

If I was having an American style rifle built, it would definitely be chambered in the Ruger.

I may change my mind yet. But the decision is coming down to 375 Ruger or Brenneke.

Anyone considering throwing away their 9.3x62, just throw them my way.

Same old stuff ... you can't get something for nothing. Bigger case for the Ruger begets you lower magazine capacity, etc.

Save your trash bags. Next year it will be some other miracle cartridge (like the 400 Tembo, the Ripper 396, the 407 mumbo-jumbo ) and you'll have to chuck the Ruger!

I wonder if the 375Ruger will ever make it to its Centenary?

Pete,

According to what I've read & am hearing on the .375H&HRuger...oh, sorry; the .375Ruger ammunition - is that it may take that long to get into circulation.

Well, here in Europe the 9.3Ruger....oh, sorry; the .375Ruger really will need to catch on in a big hurry 'cause most of the Large Game Driven Hunts I attend in the Fall are about 40% 9.3x62, the remaining 60% split between 8x57IS, .30/06 Sprg. and the odd 7x64, 7x65R or .308 Win. thrown in for good measure. Somehow I can't see that crochety group of old conservatives (Includes me!) running down to the local Gun-Mart to place an order for a new .375 Whiz-Bang.

At least for a while the 9.3x62 reigns pretty much supreme in Europe, where it's roots originate and still has a huge loyalty.

Having said all that "Tongue-in-Cheek" the company that Bill Ruger founded often went against the grain and set it's own trends, the .22 MK I's, II's & III's, the #1, the Model 77 and an entire array of single action revolvers that the Soothsayers of the time claimed would have a difficult time in the marketplace. I figure the Ruger company still has what it takes in this aspect and most likely has come up with a real winner in their new Whiz-Bang.

It will though; have a tough Roe-to-Hoe to weasel in between my purpose-built, short-barreled, Drive Hunt ready, Red Dotted 9.3x62 with it's EAW Pivot Mount and an extra Zeiss 8x56 for serious European night time work in the confined spaces of a High Seat and my Winchester Model 70 .375H&H for Africa.

Oh, yeah, I've taken the 9.3x62 to Africa and used the Winchester for Driven Hunts or was it Visa-Versa or Versa-Visa?

From the Fatherland - I wish everyone a big "Waidmannsheil" with their new .375Ruger's!

yeah, didn't we hear the same thing when the RUM series came out? Their greatest contribution to date is as parent brass for 404 Jeffries-based wildcats. I hear the 9,3x375RUM is a real humdinger.

Ditto for the WSM and WSSM cartridges...is anybody building rifles for those anymore?

I still make the odds 50/50 that 375 Ruger ammunition and rifles are in production in six-seven years.

Simple physics says that for more MV and ME the recoil has to be greater as well, and the H&H is about all the average Joe can tolerate and shoot accurately. This group is atypical, and our purchases don't amount to a popcorn fart each calendar year.

The next worthwhile step up in power is still the 416 Rigby, and the Ruger ain't got the horsepower to run in them circles.

JMHO,


Rich
DRSS

Let's put it this way.

I have two .375 H&H Magnums and two 9.3x62mms and no .375 Rugers. Although anything is possible, and I might one day own another .375 H&H or 9.3, I don't intend ever to own a .375 Ruger.

To each his own, of course, but that's my opinion, or more precisely, my taste in rifles.

And don't think that I'm just a hide-bound traditionalist. When I decided that I needed a .500 ( ), I opted for a .500 A-Square over the Jeffery or the Gibbs for reasons of practicality - brass and bullet availability and cost.

For me, decisions like this one really come down to striking a balance between taste and practicality, more than anything else.

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:
I wonder if the 375Ruger will ever make it to its Centenary?

Neither of us will likely be around to find out!


Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:
According to what I've read & am hearing on the .375H&HRuger...oh, sorry; the .375Ruger ammunition - is that it may take that long to get into circulation.

Surprisingly, it has landed in Canada already. Thats how I got my grubby paws on some. For those Canuck's interested, there is a pile of it at Russell's Sports in Calgary.

quote:

Well, here in Europe the 9.3Ruger....oh, sorry; the .375Ruger really will need to catch on in a big hurry 'cause most of the Large Game Driven Hunts I attend in the Fall are about 40% 9.3x62, the remaining 60% split between 8x57IS, .30/06 Sprg. and the odd 7x64, 7x65R or .308 Win. thrown in for good measure.

At least for a while the 9.3x62 reigns pretty much supreme in Europe, where it's roots originate and still has a huge loyalty.

Yep. That is for sure. That's why I specified NA in my comments above. Displacing the 9.3x62 in Europe would be like displacing the 30-06 in the US.

Consider our ties to Europe, you'd think the 9.3x62 would be more popular in Canada, but you know, you don't find 9.3x62 rifles very often and finding ammo is a rarity. You have to know where to look to get it.

Displacing the 9.3x62 in Canada could be practically instantaneous. A box of rifles and a crate of ammo and you'd be halfway there.

Cheers,
Canuck

Canuck,

You really know how to light a fire

I own two .375 H&Hs, two 9,3x62s and a 9,3x74R. I frankly have not been that impressed by the .375s in the field.

The 9,3x62 at medium ranges has been very impressive for its size. Makes for very nice, handy rifles.

You're welcome to the .375 Ruger (or any other caliber you want to carry in the field), I see no need for it given what I already own. At this point, I might even get rid of the .375s altogether in favor of .416 and .458 caliber DGRs.

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
Canuck,

You really know how to light a fire

I don't do it very often.

I am just very impressed by the Ruger case, now that I got my hands on it. Thought this might be a fun discussion. Well, if we can get past the "fixing what ain't broken", "I got that niche covered so keep your new 375", "nostalgia rules, progress drools", "this is exactly like the WSM, RUM, WSSM and they failed", etc, aspects and dwell on the merits of this new design versus existing options, it could be.

Cheers,
Canuck

While I agree that the 375 Ruger has potential, the reality is that rounds in calibers larger than 30 are a very small portion of the market of hunting rounds. And those over 30 that will be supported over the long haul are very limited.

In fact, there are really only 3 very popular over 30 rounds, and those would be the 9.3X62, 338 win mag and 375 H&H. Two of those rounds have been around nearly 100 years, and the other about 50 years.

The list of those that haven't stuck around is long indeed. I would say odds are in favor of the 375 Ruger joining that heap rather then becoming one of the few accepted standards.

If I didn't have a 350 rem mag and 350 Rigby mag, I'd take the 9.3X62 over the 375 Ruger.

I think that if you look at it in terms of market share, the .375 Ruger is going to take away from the .375 H&H more than the 9.3x62mm.

Here's why, the Ruger can be had in a shorter-handier action than the H&H, reloading should be simpler than for the slope-shouldered and belted H&H, magazine capacity is the same, it has more case capacity than the H&H, and its something new. New shooters looking for their first "big bore" may well gravitate toward the modern version of the .375 bore. I'm sure a plethora of manufacturers will begin chambering rifles for it - I can even see CZ chambering their medium action for it. If I didn't already have a Model 70 .375 H&H, the Ruger would be at the top of my list.

Now for the other side of the pancake, the 9.3x62; it has been reinvigorated by rifle looneys in general and I don't see that changing. What else gives you near "big bore" status, along with legal status for big game in most of Africa, by a simple rebarrel of a surplus Mauser action (or J.C. Higgins, or Remington 798, or Browning Safari, or just about any other 30-06 or .270 Win). You get near .375 H%H performance, a little less recoil (there are going to be plenty of .375 Rugers on the used market because their new owners can't handle the recoil - I've already begun to see them), a very handy rifle, and 5 down in the magazine.

I've got a surplus action, with a turned down bolt and Beuler safety, drilled and tapped for Weaver mounts, that I got for less than $200 bucks and it's just sitting in the closet waiting on the extra funds so it can be sent off for the conversion. A little bluing and a new stock and bam-mo!, I've got a handy big game game rifle with a thumb cut and Nazi markings. Where can you buy new that kind of classic panache'? If you want something newer, plunk down less than $600 for a brand-spanking new CZ and start putting large bullets in tiny groups right away. Then take it to Africa and start putting large animals on the ground right away.

Simply put the interest in the .375 H&H will slacken (that loss will be the .375 Ruger's gain), and the 9.3x62mm will remain essentially the same or slightly increasing.

The .375 Ruger will be the most wildcatted case since the .284.....and Ruger/Hornady will be making them all factory rounds!

VAPO PREDICTION!

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:

Anyway, comparing it to other great elk cartridges (the 338 Win Mag, 35 Whelen, 9.3x62, etc, etc) it dawned on me....why the heck would anyone build/or buy a new 9.3x62 (in NA anyway) with the 375 Ruger available??

What does the 9.3x62 offer that the 375 Ruger can't match or better?

I don't have a .375 Ruger but I do have a CZ 550 in 9.3x62 and a Ruger M77 Magnum in .375 H&H. I find the recoil from my 9.3x62 to be milder and more pleasant than from my .375 H&H. And remember, the Ruger Magnums in .375 H&H are on the heavy side which would help reduce recoil compared to a lighter weight rifle.

Just going by the specs for the African model on Ruger's web site, the Hawkeye in .375 Ruger weighs about 7.75 pounds out of the box. Add a pound for rings and scope for roughly 8.75 pounds total. My CZ 550 in 9.3x62 weighs 8.75 pounds with scope.

9.3x62 - 8.75 pound rifle, 286 gr bullet at 2400 fps
.375 Ruger - 8.75 pound rifle, 300 gr bullet at 2660 fps

Obviously, the .375 Ruger is going to kick more.

Now, I have some kickers like a Ruger M77 in .416 Rigby and a Merkel double in .470 Nitro Express so I'm no stranger to recoil. But, I just find my 9.3x62 to be a very "friendly" shooter. The recoil is just a nice push. Of course, the .375 Ruger could always be slowed down a little with handloads if full power loads weren't needed.

That said, other than magazine capacity, the level of recoil is about the only "advantage" I can think of for the 9.3x62 compared to the .375 Ruger. Personally, I think the .375 Ruger and the Hawkeye rifles for them are a very neat concept.

My two cents....
-Bob F.

quote:

What does the 9.3x62 offer that the 375 Ruger can't match or better?

I would ask the converse. There are tens of thousands of 9.3's out there with no justifiable reason to buy a different gun such as the 375 Rooger.

Are the 9.3x62's days numbered?
Yes!
They run from the years 1905 to 2007 I don't know how many that is, but it's lots.

I'll bite.

I find a 9.3x62 in a slim and trim Mauser to be on the same cosmic plane as sliced bread, air-conditioning and the indoor toilet. It's just right and there's no makin' it better.

Now on the practical side; the 375Ruger is indeed a marvel. There is no way on this green earth that if the 9.3x62, the 9.3x64, the 375H&H and the 375Ruger were all introduced at the same time and peered reviewed that any of them would survive but the Ruger. If the 375H&H were invented today and was new using todays powders, probably every gun rag would make fun of it and the H&H would crash and burn like the latest "Immigration Bill".

The 375Ruger has peer reviewed exceedingly well because it actually works exceedingly well. It is indeed brilliant w/ todays powders and todays standard rifle designs. It has opened many doors w/ the potential of a plethora of numerous wildcats.

The only thing the others offer over the Ruger is tradition and availability, nothing more.

GVA

P.S.,

I currently am building both a 375H&H as well as a 9.3x62, because, I'm not practical and I indeed love the history and tradiion of both cartridges. So, I'm not a 9.3x62 nor a 375H&H basher.

Canuck,

Others may look at this thread as an attempt to flame. But, I for one take my hat off to you. I take your intent as having nothing to do w/ bashing. I find this thread to have the intent to intice and inspire an open and above board discussion of views on this topic from many angles. Give yourself a pat on the back.

GVA

I agree with you.

quote:

What does the 9.3x62 offer that the 375 Ruger can't match or better?

HISTORY!

Assuming of course that this is important to you, the end user. For me it is, for others it might not be - to each their own.

I don't get the warm fuzzies about any modern cartridges - RUMs, SAUMs, WSSMs, WSMs - they are all the same, pretty much. Gun writers review them and say they are better than anything in history as they use them on a free trip - until the next cartridge comes out. That is why I would never give up my old guns - even if something newer and more versatile does come up, they still work for me.

Like I said, to each their own... but when you get ready to toss your old Mauser guild rifles and commercial sporters, please call me!

Todd

I already have a 375 H&H and just built a 9.3x62 as well. Both are extremely accurate, not finicky and who could need more power.
Who needs a .375 Ruger anyway?

What Snellstrom said. Kudude

Canuck,
Thanks for

The 9.3x62mm is a cool little dynamo, as old and nostalgic as the runt fraternal twin of the 404 Jeffery. I own a token 9.3x62mm, like a good sheeple.

However, there has been no new cartridge so applauded as the .375 Ruger in the last 30 years that I have followed closely the comings and goings.

More wrinkled up their noses at the WSM's and SAUM's than welcomed them. There is no comparison at all to the .375 Ruger in this regard.

The .375 Ruger is a 9.3x62mm with no inferiority complex. It falls smack dab in the middle of the .375 H&H to .375 Wby power spread,
but it can be made up in a trimmer packaged rifle, just as trim as a petite 9.3x62. That would make it an outstanding "African Elk/Sheep Rifle" and 3 down in the box plus one "up yours" is plenty for that.

Long live the .375 Ruger. It will be here forever, no worries. Coming soon: .395 Ruger Max.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

What does the 9.3x62 offer that the 375 Ruger can't match or better?

I would ask the converse. There are tens of thousands of 9.3's out there with no justifiable reason to buy a different gun such as the 375 Rooger.

The question was about someone buying or building a new rifle, that would have been interested by something in that calibre range (ie. 9.3/375)....not about people that already have a 9.3x62.

Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by GaryVA:
Canuck,
I find this thread to have the intent to intice and inspire an open and above board discussion of views on this topic from many angles.
GVA

Thanks for noticing.

I was hoping we have moved past the petty squabbles on the topic (as displayed by early threads about the 375 Ruger, before it was in the hands of many and proved the claims) and can actually discuss the merits/downfalls of the new cart. Of course I knew the 9.3x62 angle would get some attention, but I do mean what I said. Looking at this cartridge next to the other tried and true elk carts really got me thinking about its pretty ingenious design and why it shouldn't fade to obscurity if that gets recognized.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

9.3x62 - 8.75 pound rifle, 286 gr bullet at 2400 fps
.375 Ruger - 8.75 pound rifle, 300 gr bullet at 2660 fps

Obviously, the .375 Ruger is going to kick more.

True, but it doesn't have to. For the recoil conscious/sensitive, it can definitely be downloaded. Wouldn't be surprised at all if Hornady made a "Light Magnum" type load for it, or eventually Remington with their low recoil line.

Cheers,
Canuck

You guys are too much! I will make a prediction that the Ruger is not only here to stay, but will turn out to be one of the most popular cartridges for those that are Really going to use them for DG. I talked to my friend and fellow hunter with African experience who is also the General Manager for a local gunstore that has four large stores in the Houston area. We were talking about his next hunt in Zim that several friends are going along on as hunters. We like to hash out loads, guns and all the stuff that most of us consider a big part of why we hunt, and what makes planning a hunt half of the fun. When he told me that three of the hunters had not even bought their DGR's yet, and had not even settled on caliber yet(hunt is only 2 months away) and I expressed wonder and disbelief, he told me, "Lee, you and I like guns and hunting and working up our own loads to take game, the average, overwhelming majority of customers that buy guns at retail, even the ones going to Africa, have no interest in all the details and specs and perceived advantages of one rifle or cartridge over another, they just want to buy something they can use for the hunt they are going on!" Folks, we are but a tiny minority of the people that purchase guns. Virtually every gunmaker out there has a rifle that will work with the 375 Ruger cartridge without retooling the whole line. It will be cheaper than the "Safari Rifles" and readily available throughout North America, which constitutes the biggest market in the world, period, for firearms. We can wax poetically all day over the virtues of the 9.3, but it a'int legal in most African countries for DG and that alone kicks it out of contention. The fact that the Ruger is chambered for "375", a universally recognized bullet size, gives it a leg up for the relativley uninformed masses. "I'm going to Africa to hunt!" what are you using? "I'm using a .375!" (knowing nods from the assembled masses) Can you imagine the same scenario with our intrepid hunter saying"I'm taking my 9.3, of course!" mass confusion! The facts are that the rifle and round will do well despite what all of us Afficianado's say, and truth be known, it is a cartridge whose time has come. Will it replace any of my personal .375's?, Hell No! But the reality of the market says it will do just fine, and if it is good for the gun industry, then I am all for it! Lee.

Just for reference, since there seems to be a lack of 375 Ruger pics around...



Cheers,
Canuck

The .375 Ruger is a slick idea, but it has to move a long way from the gunwriter and advertising realm and out into the shooting fields and the shops in the outback. Right now, you can readily purchase .375 H&H and 9.3x62mm if you need to in the game fields, meaning Africa, try to do that with .375 Ruger, or the SAUMs and RUMs. It takes a lot to move a cartridge from a regional standard to a world wide standard.

LLS

Just go to your local US hunting shop and ask for a pack of 9.3x62mm ammo? Sir, 9..... what?

quote:

Originally posted by Paolo9,5x73:
Just go to your local US hunting shop and ask for a pack of 9.3x62mm ammo? Sir, 9..... what?

That's what its like here in Canada. I mistakenly assumed it wasn't much more popular in the US. Based on some of the responses above (one of "only 3 very popular over 30 rounds", "tens of thousands of 9.3s out there"), I was starting to get the impression almost everyone has a 9.3x62 in the gun safe in the US!

Cheers,
Canuck

I looked at nice 9.3x62 CZ550FS at last the last gun show. If it was chambered for .35 Whelen I would probably have brought it home. Why? That's because I could pick up couple boxes of Remi ammo at local retailer.