I am contemplating a rifle for a Cape buffalo hunt in the more or less distant future. Just returned from my second plains game hunt, after which I had a chance to see and observe Cape buffalo and now I'm thinking I need to save up and make a plan for a hunt in 5 or 6 years. Which means I need to figure out the rifle this winter (it's winter! what else am I going to do?).

Biggest thing I currently own is a Ruger No. 1 in 9.3x74R, which is cool and what I used for plains game 2 years ago when my 35 Whelen's scope got to Namibia DOA (I took 2 rifles; Whelen went this year alone and worked wonderfully). But a single shot with a marginal cartridge isn't what I want for buffalo.

I've got a later manufacture CRF Winchester Super Grade in 300 WM that I think I want to convert to 416 Taylor. I started out thinking 375 Chatfield-Taylor and then 375 & 416 Ruger but kind of like 416 Tyalor cool factor, plus the parent brass may well be around longer than the Rugers. I will reload.

The M70 has a pretty dense stock and good weight, so it won't be a lightweight with a 416 barrel on it. I do plan to add a second crossbolt and have everything bedded. Thinking 23" barrel - clean, no sights (can't see the damn things anymore anyway) - and DG-type low power variable Nikon or Leupold scope, 1-piece base, dual dovetail rings.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Additions?

Thanks. -Scott

I'd get a new M70 Safari Express in .375, .416 or .458 and leave your .300 alone. If you want a little; or make that a lot lighter .375 find a Walnut Alaskan.

Take the .300 Supergrade along as a companion piece.

Nice to contemplate preparations for a buffalo hunt.

I would agree with the preliminary advice: leave the supergrade M70 300WM alone. Likewise, plan on a bolt-action rather than a single-shot.

Since the hunt will be a dedicated buffalo hunt, plains-game by opportunity, you would do well to think .4" calibre and above. Personally, I can't think of a reason to do a wildcat 416Taylor when factory cartridges are already available with more capacity.

Bang for buck you can't beat the 416Ruger. it has more capacity than the Taylor and you probably want to use all of its capacity. If you want an M70 to match the 300WM, then a 416Rem in M70 would be a nice choice. If you want handloading flexibility then a 416Rigby in CZ550 is a great hunting rifle. (I've owned 3 of the latter and all handled over 6000ftlbs without a problem.)

For more diameter, you could go 458Lott in a magnum action rifle. For a shorter rifle the 458B&M are nice but typically run about $3k and up because of the nice stocks. If you are building the rifle, then I would consider the 450Rigby as providing wider handloading flexibility.

For additional diameter you can consider the 500Jeffrey or 505Gibbs in CZ550 or else build a shorter, lighter 500AccRelNyati on a Ruger action. The latter can match and better the factory loads of the Jeffrey or Gibbs, so you are not giving up any power, just gaining manueverability.

There are a lot of options, but you should start soon so that any building can be finished within the next year or two.

If you are going to shoot a bolt gun I'd go with the 416 Remington as first choice and 375 H&H as second. The reason I say this is most camps have both calibers. PHs love extra ammo when you leave and if your ammo gets lost you should be able to find those common calibers. You take a wildcat and you might end up using a borrowed gun. The main thing is use a GOOD bullet regardless of caliber.

The 9.3x74R is not marginal and will do the job well if you want to use it.

Re a bolt rifle, I agree, leave the Super Grade alone. A matching 416Rem would be an ideal choice, or a 375H&H. But put open sights on either choice and use a Tally or other pop up aperture (peep) sight on the receiver. An aperture sight works well and is a cure for aging eyes.

If you insist on using the 416 Taylor it will do the job well, but find another donor rifle!

As srose writes, make sure your bullet choice is up to the job. A Frame, TBBC, North Fork, Partition would be great choices in 400grs. A little lighter, about 350grs, for TSX or other mono metals would be good too.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
... For a shorter rifle the 458B&M are nice but typically run about $3k and up because of the nice stocks. ...

If one is contemplating a Cape Buffalo hunt I doubt the 3K would be an issue. One other thing about the 458B&M with an 18" barrel is that one can run a 450gr solid, 420gr hollow point and the 250gr Socom (@2900fps) at more or less the same point of impact at 50 yards.

So, you get a DG rifle and a 300 yard PG rifle without making any adjustments to your sights.

Thanks all. I'm not especially looking to create a do-all rifle, just one suitable for buffalo that doesn't kick too hard and looks good. That takes the 45-and-up candidates off the table for me. I will never be hunting elephant so one of the 416's was/is definitely my thinking.

A new (or used I suppose) DG rifle in one of the factory 416 chamberings probably makes the most sense and might end up costing less. But the very fact that they are more common makes me want to have something different. Like I said, the 'cool' factor has some bearing for me, as does the Taylor's history as one of the bridge cartridges between the 375's and 458's before the factory 416 came on the scene. From what I've read I can expect to see 2300-2400+ fps with 400 grain bullets from a 23" barrel, which is right there with the factory 416's.

As for cost, I spoke with a gunsmith yesterday evening who's going to get me some numbers by end of next week, after which I may re-think the factory DGR alternative. Tanks: Your "doubt the $3K would be an issue" made me laugh! (no offense meant) The reason I'm talking about a hunt 5-6 years out is that it matters a good deal. If $$$ were less of an object I'd be going in 2015 (or would have already been and you'd be reading my breathless account in the hunt reports). No, I'm planning to sell maybe 5 safe queen rifles and one shotgun, plus an antique tractor, to fund at least a portion of this project and hunt.

I was surprised by all the "don't sacrifice the Super Grade" comments. Do you not think it an adequate platform for a DG rifle? Or just sacrilege to hack a Super Grade? Would it help to know I already had the barrel cut down to 24 inches, and so am already guilty? I actually bought that rifle with every intention of turning it into something else. I always wanted a a Super Grade but the standard chamberings were either ones I already owned or uninteresting (the 264 WM is the exception). For years I wanted an SG 35 Whelen but never came across one in 270 or 30-06 at the right price/time to have re-barreled. Then I found this one a few years ago and grabbed it but didn't know what it should turn into. Until the Cape buffalo bug bit I was leaning hard toward a 9.3-338 WM (366 Alaskan) wildcat but never did more than talk and think about it. So now the Taylor makes the same sense for ease of conversion.

JPK: Thanks for the pop-up aperture suggestion, I'm going to look into that (honestly, I couldn't think of a way not to make a bad pun).

Stay tuned. Thanks. -Scott

wsj

If you want a 416 Taylor, then go for it-I was real close to building one myself, but I ran into Michael458 and ended up with a 416 B&M- Which I absolutely love.

The whole key to the matter is--its your rifle for your hunt--do what makes you happy(as long as it works)

SSR

Scott
For about $1000.00 you can turn that model 70 into a 375 or 416 Ruger. I converted a 300 win mag to 416 Ruger and it is one of my favorite rifles. I had Wayne a AHR do the work for me would highly recomend him
Chris

never hunted a dangerous animal,
So feel free to toss my advise out the window.
1st to build a rifle on your 300, will not save much when compared to buying a new one. CZ or model 70.
2nd i would opt for the most power you can shoot well. Nothing smaller than a .375. Pondo Taylor said a .416 Rigby was enough for anything !
A wildcat in a far off country could mean borrowing a rifle !...tj3006

For about 800.00 buy Ruger rifle in 375 or 416. My son shot a cape buffalo and elephant with his 375 Ruger African one shot kills.

wsj--

I think I'm hearing you.

You'd like "cool" rather than simple, fair enough. However, when comparing numbers on expected ballistic performance, case capacity will give the truest expectations. Basically, the 416Ruger provides an extra 10 grains of capacity and the 416Remington gives an extra 12 grains. That means that the Taylor gives up about 100fps on average.

For cool factor, one might leave all the new 416's aside and go with Selby's workhorse, the Rigby. It's quite comfortable at 5100ftlbs. And a person can learn to rock with 6000ftlbs pretty easily, or anything in between.

However, the Rigby likes to have up to 3.75" COL/magazine capacity, which is probably more than the M70 is ready for. You will need to ask a gunsmith.

If you really want a wildcat and want to take full advantage of the M70 platform, then maybe consider the .589" case head in a case that is only 2.7" long or shorter, a short 416Rigby, or a necked up 416/338Lapua. It would probably offer 110-115grains capacity and still far outperform the very-low-pressure, factory Rigby loads.

Personally, I just like the feel of a 416Rigby round in my hand, as is. It feels like Africa. It's pretty cool, but folks here just call it nostalgia. For modern and practical, we come back to the 416Ruger.

quote:

I was surprised by all the "don't sacrifice the Super Grade" comments. Do you not think it an adequate platform for a DG rifle? Or just sacrilege to hack a Super Grade?

In my case the "leave the Supergrade alone" is just dollars and cents. When your thinking 5-6 years out for the hunt, building a rifle that doesn't need building doesn't make sense. For most of the time the .416 Rem has been on the market its been plagued with high pressure and low velocity complaints. Why spend the price of a rifle to make something that's oddball and less than what's available? It doesn't take a modified or custom rifle to kill a buffalo, just something that works every time and is somewhere around .375 or up.
Guys spend too much on rifles and not enough on plane tickets. Some don't have to chose but some do, and still get it wrong.

wsj,

You are welcome regarding the pop up apperature suggestion. Here are two options:

Brockman pop up for Model 70 - to me the better of the two options since it is always on the rifle. The price is $150, but that includes scope bases and rings too: http://www.brockmansrifles.com/sight_options.asp

The other option I know of is the Talley removable apperature. It works, but you may loose the apperature since it fits to the rear base when the scope is removed and resides in your pocket when hunting with the scope. I'd show you a photo, but I have misplaced mine!
http://www.talleymanufacturing...ight/Peep-Sight.aspx

As for the 416 Taylor, it is more than sufficient for cape buffalo, in fact, it would be more than sufficient loaded to 450/400NE levels of performance which runs from an (overly) optimistic nominal of 400grs at 2150 to the more realistic, real world performance of 400grs at 2100fps for the 3 1/4" case or 2050fps for the 3" case. And - citing your goal of manageable recoil - 400grs at about 2100fps offers reduced recoil compared to either max loaded 416 Taylor loads or factory loads, let alone enhanced loads, for any other 416.

The very successful century plus history of the 450/400's in Africa proves without a trace of doubt that a 400 caliber bullet at 2050-2100fps is more than adequate, of that there is no doubt. John "Pondoro" Taylor (not related to the 416 Taylor developer) would likely argue it is the ideal buffalo prescription, in fact he did in one of his books.

At about 2100fps or so, the Woodleigh soft points would work very well, in addition to the bullets cited earlier. And the Woodeligh solids would work well for second and subsequent shots too.

Since the Super Grade was purchased with a conversion in mind, it makes great sense to use it as the donor rifle, and "minimal" work will be required to meet your goals.

FWIW, you might do a search here on AR looking for Will's post. He has some excellent video too. Will is a curmudgeonly old fart who still posts from time to time and who has used the 416 Taylor extensively in Africa, mainly on elephants. He is a fan of too light rifles and loaded his Taylor to the max, iirc, 2350fps for a 400gr solid. More than enough, maybe too much in his light weight rifle since he reported stiff recoil. He stopped a couple of elephant charges at "end of barrel" range though.

When it comes time for your hunt - and consider this when you are planning for it - do yourself a favor and work for close range encounters with buffalo and with the trophy you decide to shoot in particular. Some hunting locations allow for close range hunting, some don't. Hunting buffalo up close is great, exhilarating, challenging fun, but shooting them at range is about as exciting and as challenging as shooting Betsy on the back 40.

JPK

If I were in your position, I'd rebarrel the 300 WM to 416 Rem Mag (107 grs. H20 capacity), and keep the 300 WM barrel to screw back in, if needed, after finishing the DG hunt.

416 Rem Mag ammo is fairly common in Africa, and should you become separated from you ammo because of baggage problems, you should be able to acquire some 416 Rem Mag ammo from your outfitter.

416 Ruger (102 grs H20 capacity) is another option, but not quite as powerful and ammo - in my experience - is not as readily available in Africa.

The 416 Taylor is uncommon and not that cool, and will be harder to sell - if required.

I went and found a Mark X in 3 Winnie at a local pawn shop. Had a Smith turn it into a 416 Taylor. Waters has load data, Quality Cartridge has brass (or you can get Hornady basic brass).
I'm happy and confident that it will handle a dagga boy.

Since you have plenty of time I would go 416 Ruger in a Hawkeye African. It's the most affordable and is a really quick handling rifle. Run it through it's paces for awhile and see how you like the 416 class. If after that you want to invest in a more expensive rifle you will have a better idea of what you want and will have had ample trigger time in a larger class. I doubt you would have any trouble selling the Ruger for about what you paid for it. I bought an African from CDNN because it was on closeout for $699. I love that rifle and have a Mod 70 and CZ 550 to compare it with. It was a very pleasant surprise for the money.

quote:

Originally posted by Sean Russell:
...

If you want a 416 Taylor, then go for it-I was real close to building one myself, but I ran into Michael458 and ended up with a 416 B&M- Which I absolutely love....

Yeah, that Michael guy is bad influence. I was going to build a 450 Rigby and after talking to him I ended up with a 500MDM and a 416B&M. Used both in Africa last month.

My "cool" rifle for my Buff hunt was to re-barrel a new mod 70 375H&H to a 400H&H.
400gr bullet 2400fps.

quote:

The 416 Taylor is uncommon and not that cool

Ouch. Stop being so practical - I'm romanticizing here!

However there's probably no getting around the fact that "for modern and practical, we come back to the 416 Ruger." The only potential downside is if the Ruger becomes obsolete, which wouldn't matter much if I have a stock of brass.

I think the Rigby's out, at least as a conversion possibility with the M70 as a donor rifle, leaving the Remington or Ruger.

Dogleg: What's the basis for your comment on the Remington's high pressure/low velocity complaint? I've read that about earlier 458 Win ammo but not about the Remington 416.

JPK: Going a different direction, you said the 9.3x74R was not marginal. Have you had a chance to use or observe it used on buffalo? I took mine (Ruger No. 1) out of the safe this afternoon and is really is a sweet little rifle but I have to confess it didn't scream, "Cape buffalo rifle." A friend suggested this year's No. 1 in 450/400, but the single shot aspect still weighs against it I think.

Your advice on trying to ensure my future hunt is up close and personal is right on the money. I'm a hunter of thickets by nature and watching buffalo a few weeks ago at close range in the thickets along the Kwando and Okavango rivers is what made me think I want to hunt them. I absolutely want to book a hunt that's not a long range proposition.

I spend a heck of a lot more time reading, researching, and thinking about cartridges I want to own a rifle for than I do hunting with them. Been a lifelong hobby, at least since I started reloading and reading about cartridges, their development and use almost 40 years ago. John Taylor, Col. Charles Askins, and Frank Barnes are all well-thumbed on my bookshelf and are probably responsible for most of the guns I learned I really "needed" when in fact I could have shot everything I've ever hunted with one or the other of my first three - a 22 rifle, a 12 gauge pump, and a 30-06. I guess it nicely meets the definition of hobby. That's why when I decided I should try to do a buffalo hunt I started with the cartridge and rifle.

-Scott

quote:

Yeah, that Michael guy is bad influence. Wink I was going to build a 450 Rigby and after talking to him I ended up with a 500MDM and a 416B&M. Used both in Africa last month.

Yes, I asked him about a varmint rifle, and ended up with my 500 MDM!

With G S Custom, North Fork or CEB bullets at 410
grains, a .458 bullet at 2200 FPS will have plenty
of penetration on any buffalo. The science behind
these new bullets is detailed in michael458's book
length thread. That said, I vote for a .458 Win. Mag.
as your caliber choice; it's recoil will be like a 416
Taylor.

I love the grain in that stock Biebs. Very nice looking rifle indeed.

Pics from Namibia 3 weeks ago. This how I hope to see them when hunting.

Like me, recoil is a concern for you. You might take a look at the pressure generated in a 416 Rigby as contrasted with a 416 Rem, or pretty much anything else you are considering. AHR can build you one.

I hope in 5 or 6 years you will be able to hunt buffalo in Africa. I have real concerns about the future of African hunting. In 5 years hunting in Africa may be with "loaner" guns supplied by outfitters. I would not worry about the gun and try to shorten the time till you can go hunt buffalo. Your 9.3x74 will work and most likely an outfitter you select will have a 458 to use if needed.
I regret feeling this way. I cherished every second in Africa and truly enjoyed preparing a proper gun. I really hope I am wrong!!!!!

If you want to go "cool", go with a 416 Hoffman or 416 UltraCAT (aka., 416 Remington Ultra-Magnum).

Go with 416 Taylor. It's what you want. And they are cool. I have a bunch of load data if you want it.

.600 Nitro.
Case closed.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by wsj:

quote:

The 416 Taylor is uncommon and not that cool

...

Dogleg: What's the basis for your comment on the Remington's high pressure/low velocity complaint? I've read that about earlier 458 Win ammo but not about the Remington 416.

JPK: Going a different direction, you said the 9.3x74R was not marginal. Have you had a chance to use or observe it used on buffalo? I took mine (Ruger No. 1) out of the safe this afternoon and is really is a sweet little rifle but I have to confess it didn't scream, "Cape buffalo rifle." A friend suggested this year's No. 1 in 450/400, but the single shot aspect still weighs against it I think.

...

-Scott

Dogleg is correct, there were early problems with the 416Rem ammo similar to the early problems with the 458wm ammo, though not so dramatic. I have read reports of bullets working out and of inconsistent velocity. However, the reports are from the past and Remington seems to have long ago fixed the issues (I suspect by dropping powder charge a little.) Nominal performance remains 2400fps with a 400gr bullet, and that is way beyond the proven 450/400's, so well beyond sufficient, even if in actual rifles it doesn't quite meet nominal specs.

I have not killed any buff with a 9.3x62 or it's rimmed counter part the 9.3x72R, however, several members of AR have and two who have plenty of experience with other, larger cartridges have and they report excellent performance. One is 450No2NitroExpress and the other is OzHunter. Moderator Ganyana, who is a Zim PH, uses a 9.3x62 extensively when hunting for himself, even for elephants, though when guiding he uses a 500/416. In addition, since I was looking for a suitable buffalo (and elephant) cartridge for my 14yr old son I asked some of the PH's I know. They all reported excellent results on buff, on par with the tried and true 375H&H.

[For my son I bought an excellent condition but bare barreled second hand 9.3x62 and had the rifle worked over by JJ Perrodeau (sp?) who added an ebony fore end tip, a banded rear express sight, a banded front sight and a banded sling swivel stud, and engraved my son's name on the rifle as well. If it comes together I will hunt elephant and he will buff and maybe elephant hunt with the rifle in 2016, and a great friend and his son of the same age will join us for buff and elephant as well.]

The 9.3's are the minimum legal cartridges for buff or elephant in Zimbabwe and the minimum most places - but not SA which requires a 375. FWIW, I think anything under a 450NE is light for elephants, but I will be there with my son in the event of any issues with aggressive elephants.

I agree that a single shot is not the ideal platform, in fact I am a double rifle affianado. All of the buff and elephants I have killed have been with a double rifle. Though I would NEVER hunt elephant with a single shot I would not hesitate hunting buffalo with one.

The benefit of using your 9.3x74R is that it is ready to go, and whatever $'s you would have spent converting your Super Grade or acquiring another rifle is already in the safari kitty, accelerating the date of departure!

A note on all Winchester bolt actions and other actions derived from the Model 70 - you should ensure that a sharp rap on the bottom of the bolt handle while the rifle is on "safe" doesn't lock up the safety. This happened to Keith Atcheson almost a decade ago while he, his wife Nicki and their PH were tracking a buff Nicki wounded. The buff charged, and Keith, who was, or at least might have been, in position to stop the bull couldn't get his safety lever to "fire." The PH killed the buff, but only after Nicki was gored. Thankfully she made a full recovery and returned to buff hunting.

I checked my rifles and discovered my 375H&H (my back up and "light rifle" for safaris) was prone to this issue and had JJ Perrodeau correct the problem.

Hope this helps,

JPK

quote:

However there's probably no getting around the fact that "for modern and practical, we come back to the 416 Ruger." The only potential downside is if the Ruger becomes obsolete, which wouldn't matter much if I have a stock of brass.

It's funny to think of the 416Ruger as potentially obsolete when being compared to the Taylor.

Hornady recognizes that they are on to a good thing with the Ruger brass series and they market Ruger Basic brass as well as 416Ruger brass. The 375Ruger is here to stay, so the 416 will always be around in the shadows, too.

However, I like the suggestion above about trying out a 416Ruger. For the money needed to rebarrel you can just buy a new 416Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan or African and practice loading and shooting a 416class rifle. Then you can approach the question again. Are you satisfied? Do you go bigger bore? Bigger capacity? (Down to my wife's 375Ruger? I hear they're becoming popular in SouthAfrica. But she got hers for a plains gun, not dedicated buffalo.)

Whatever you decide there is no downside to a 416Ruger and it will certainly be resalable a couple of years down the road. I may never have gotten into 416Rigbys if the Ruger had come along back when the 416 era kick-started (1989=1990). At that time, the 416Remington came out, and Ruger came out with their edition of the 416Rigby, still a very nice gun (I owned one). The 416Ruger is even more practical in the Hawkeye action.

What I don't understand is why Ruger undercut their great 375Ruger case and later came out with a 338CompactMagnum, duplicating the 338-06, instead of a standard length duplication of the capacity of the 340Weatherby. That particular marketing mistake (though nothing wrong with the cartridge) probably has them smarting and has slowed down the other obvious development, a 458Ruger that would simulate the 458Lott. There is probably not enough market in the over-40 range to work out every iteration since we have standard belted (458Win), long belted (458Lott) long large case (450Rigby) with possibilites for a 458RUM and its shortened 458AccRel (~=458Lott) and even shorter 458B&M (~=458Win). A buffalo hunter has no end of choices, so a $800-900 entry rifle in 416Ruger makes a lot of sense for testing the water.

Go now and with what you have! Just use good bullets. Time is more important. You could end up going twice by that time. If that is not going to happen then buy a
416 Ruger and shoot it for practice and back up gun till your new custom gun materializes. Sell later before the trip if needed. How's that sound?

JPK:

Here is the description of the malfunction:

http://forums.accuratereloadin.../1411043/m/699106902

I had incorrectly though he had the safety in the middle position but he clearly says it was in the full safe position.

My advice is either a 375 Ruger or a 416 Ruger.
All depending on how you handle the recoil.

I bought a 375 Ruger a few years ago and I am VERY happy with it.
The reason I bought a 375 Ruger instead of a 416 Ruger, was because it was easier and cheaper for me to get .375 bullets and I was not sure about the recoil level.

I have the first version of a 375 Ruger Alaskan without a muzzle break.
The only thing I have done with it, was to replace the original recoil pad with one from Limbsaver.

The recoil is surprisingly gentle.
Hard to describe, but I rather shoot my 375 Ruger than my fathers 30-06 with a light stock.
I can shoot lots and lots of shots at the shooting range and really having fun and enjoying it.

Most likely I would buy a 416 Ruger today if I was to make the choice again.
And I am having a discussion with myself all the time if I should buy one anyway, even if I have a 375 Ruger already.

We all handle recoil differently, so I can't say what is best for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
JPK:

Here is the description of the malfunction:

http://forums.accuratereloadin.../1411043/m/699106902

I had incorrectly though he had the safety in the middle position but he clearly says it was in the full safe position.

That's it Charles, thanks.

Keith's post in your link informs that his safety locked up with just the bolt handled lifted some while the three position safety was in "safe." It took a sharp rap on the bottom of the bolt knob to get mine (a Dakota 76) to lock up. JJ fixed it by taking all of the slop out.

JPK

I'm with Boomy. Your Ruger single shot screams "cool factor". Your PH will back you up if need be. My only regret in going on safari was waiting til I was 50 to go the first time. Book your hunt NOW and just go. Just make sure your 9.3 is legal where you plan to go.

Re: M70 potential safety malfunction.

That's an inconvenience on a deer rifle and a potentially serious issue for a DGR. Thanks for bring that to my attention. I'll try to duplicate that with my rifle, make sure my smith is aware of the potential, and see that it's corrected if necessary. BTW Jack A's description of the problem was excellent - succinct and factual.

Thanks also for the additional info on the 416 Remington ammo issue, of which I was likewise unaware. Sounds like a problem a handloader with a chronograph can address though.

As for shooting what I got and going twice between now and then (or at least sooner), damn but I wish I could. But in 6 years I can retire from the day job. And I've got that many years left on the mortgage, my vehicle is a battered old 2002 Toyota truck with 300+K miles on it (is it any wonder I love Africa?!) that needs to go 2 more years for me before being replaced with a new one which should be my last truck and which needs to be paid for before I hie off to Africa again, plus I simply must have both knees replaced and settled in before then. So all I can do is plan and hope there's still someplace to hunt by then and that if there is it hasn't gotten so expensive I can't do it anyway.

As for recoil, I'm not too concerned about 416 level recoil, maybe because I've never shot one. I have shot friends' 375 H&H's off the bench and didn't find them difficult. I've got a 35 Whelen in a light M700 CDL and the 9.3x74R and don't consider either of them to recoil much. Of my medium bore rifles an M700 Classic in 8mm Remington Mag is the only one with noticeable recoil. That one's a sharp, fast recoiling rifle that you have to pay attention to off the bench or your cheek will know it, especially with stiff handloads. Offhand and at game it's not noticeable. So based on that at least I'm hopeful that 416-level recoil is not going to be an issue.

Compared to a .375 plan on close to double the recoil when you touch off a .416 Rem. With the Rigby you can cancel the "close". Ditto the .458 Win.

I'm not saying you can't handle it, but after a .375 a .416 can be a real eye-opener.

You are welcome re the M 70 issue. I hope your rifle isn't subject to it. JJ fixed mine, but I'm not sure exactly what he did.

Re handloads and the 416Rem, or the Taylor for that matter, I don't think you would find any problem with them, even loaded to the max, even if powder was very compressed, since a handloader can load his ammo not long before his trip, and can control neck tension - think Lee factory crimp tool. Some of the old 458wm and I think all of the 416Rem issues were due to the age and storage conditions of the ammo. [But Winchester did have QC issues with some of the early 458wm ammo.] And don't forget, a 400gr top quality bullet at 2100fps or so is well proven buff medicine, and all that is needed.

I have hunted with a fellow who runs a guiding service in my neck of the woods and his knees were giving him fits for a long time. He avoided it for years until he was reduced to walking with a cane and constant pain but finally had one knee replaced and then as soon as he recovered the other knee replaced. He moves around like a new man, and has told me often he wishes he'd have had his knees replaced years earlier.

Sounds like you are committed to the 416 in one form or another. An easy way to avoid undue recoil is to shoot off of a standing bench. With a standing bench your potential accuracy will be almost but not quite as good as off of a standard sitting bench. More than adequate for load development. With a standing bench you rock and roll to the recoil, absorbing it as you would shooting off hand.

If you must use a standard sitting bench, you can reduce felt recoil by sitting as up right as possible, using more or taller bags for the fore arm and the same for the butt. The higher the rifle, and then less you need to lean down into rifle the more you will absorb recoil by rocking at the hips.

And again, 400grs at 2100fps is well proven buff medicine and all that is required.

Also, here is my regimen for becoming accustomed to the recoil of my elephant rifle, which I have to repeat if I have lain off shooting it for awhile. First, I remind myself that the recoil will be unpleasant but that it won't hurt me. Then I shoot a couple of rounds, maybe two, maybe four. Then I switch to a lighter recoiling rifle, and a 375H&H feels like a pop gun in comparison. Then I practice shooting with open sights or a scope for a hundred or two hundred rounds using a 22lr. I have one with express sights similar enough to my double rifle, and one with a scope so sight picture isn't too different from my hunting rifles. If after 50rnds with the 22lr I'm loosing focus I stop, if after 100, I stop. If I can get in all 200 so much the better. Three or four days later I get back to the range or a hunting club and repeat, starting with reminding myself the rifle isn't going to hurt me, but I shoot a couple additional big bore rounds. Three or four days later repeat, shooting another couple of additional big bore rounds. So the big bore round count is now up to maybe a dozen. Repeat, repeat, repeat... After a month or a month and a half I can shoot between 25 and 30 big bore rounds a day without issue, and that is more than enough for both load development (I load where I shoot when developing loads) and for practice. Especially when you can do a lot of your practicing with a 22lr to keep expenses down. Also, for me at least, days are variable. Some days, even if I've worked up over a month to shooting a 25-30rnds with my big bore the recoil will get to me. Some days it just won't. On those few days it does, I just stop.

According to the PH's, too many guys are unaccustomed to or afraid of their big bore rifles, and why so many recommend the 375H&H. If you work into recoil tolerance as I do, your safari rifle will be as familiar as your deer rifle, and there will be no issue.

Hope this helps,

JPK

I'll throw in my .02.

I hunted Buffalo this summer in Zambia with my 404 Jeffery. No one has mentioned this caliber yet.

It has the history for your "cool" factor, and would be less recoil than a 416 anything, shooting the original load of a 400 gr. bullet at 2125 fps. This is in the 450/400 class of recoil others have already mentioned, which is very pleasant to shoot. If you feel the need for more speed, Hornady loads the 404J to 2300 fps, and the case is large enough to go even further.

My 404J is built on a Dakota Safari, not the African. It weighs 8.5 lbs.

You said you reload and were thinking of a 416 Taylor, so you could obviously reload for a 404J as easily as the Taylor. Plus, the 404J is beltless.

This may not be right for your situation, but it's just one more caliber for your consideration.