The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Cape Buffalo Cartridge, Rifle, etc.?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Phil, There are a number of guys here who have used the 320gr Woodleighs and they report even better performance than 286 grainers. When my now 14yr old son comes with me for buff and maybe a tuskless elephant in 2016 he will be shooting 286 grainers though. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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Thanks JPK. I have also heard the 320 gr are exceptional. But i have wondered whether these heavy for calibre bullets at really close range have stabilised sufficiently because most barrel twist rates cater for the standard bullet weight in the calibre. | |||
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I know OzHunter has used them close with success. Whether he had his rifle built with a tighter than typical twist rate I don't know. Other have reported great success here as well, who I don't recall, and I don't know ranges or twist rates either. The reason my son's rifle will be shooting all 286 grainers, softs and solids, is versatility for a one gun safari. JPK Free 500grains | |||
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If you like simple, reliable (not exotic). Might buy you a new model 70 in 458WM ($1000.00). Drop a couple hundred bucks on bedding and a trigger job. Might have the action honed. Put on a Leupold VX 6 (1X6). Load some 450 swifts (good stubby bullets that do not take up case space) ahead of some AA2230 (2280 FPS non compressed). My experience is this load will shoot 4 shots into a quarter at 100 yds. The 458 WM is quite a good cartridge with modern powders and the 450 gr. load make it a strong contender out to 150 yds for just about anything. EZ | |||
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Thats entirely to logical for AR-- You didn't even insist on adding pixie dust----------  "The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane." Mark Twain TANSTAAFL www.savannagems.com A unique way to own a piece of Africa. DSC Life NRA Life | |||
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That would be a great prescription except that the OP, wjs, has indicated that the recoil of even a full house 416Rem might be too much for him. JPK Free 500grains | |||
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He could drop down to the 350 TSX and reduce recoil that way if needed. I shot several dozen buffalo on cull with that bullet and it worked quite well. Expanded bullets were typically found under the hide on the far side just like the 420 grain CEBs and 450 grain A-Frames. I brought those along as a light recoiling alternative, and a science project in what would happen if instead of going down one weight for monos I went down three. It was surprising at how well they compared, since the goal was more a .375 substitute than anything. Recoil was comparable to a .375 and less than the calculated recoil of full house .416s. I don't have one of those; but its a powder-puff compared to my .416 Rigby. | |||
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Dogleg, That sounds like a great option, for someone who already owns a 458wm. But if you don't, why not just use a the 9.3x62 you already own, which is the case with the op? JPK Free 500grains | |||
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The OP mentioned a 9.3x74R single shot. See below.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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He has both. Given the magazine capacity of the 9.3x62 it would make the most sense, eh? JPK Free 500grains | |||
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He has a 9.3-74R in a single-shot, which wouldn't be most people's idea of optimum, where its even legal. I'm not suggesting he get a .458, just that there is a lighter recoiling alternative if someone wanted to go that way. One that kicks like a .375 and will give full loads in a .458 a run for their money. Or just get a .375 and call it good. Or a .416. Lots of things work, the big thing is to book a hunt and go. edit: I see he does have a 9.3 x 62.oops There's still the legality question, but assuming the right country he could be better off hunting with what he has and just going if money is an issue. Still, its another rifle that could be just sold if he wants something else. | |||
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Thank you. I hadn't seen his comment on the 9.3x62. It's a great round. but it's not legal for buffalo in TZ. As many have said, something like a 416Ruger removes any legality question for anyone anywhere, if he wants a new rifle/calibre. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Yes, not legal in SA or, as you previously noted, in TZ. But those are both relatively expensive places to hunt buff. Given the op's reticence on the recoil of a full house 416Rem and the expense/saving for the hunt issue it seems to me that he ought to select a less expensive location for his hunt, and one that allows him to both save $'s on a rifle and avoid recoil he seems to be wary of. But it is his hunt, not mine. JPK Free 500grains | |||
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By all means go on a hunt. And get a buffalo rifle if one wants. Recoil will take care of itself, from 80% loads on up to full power. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I was referring to the op, not to me. I have hunted buff some, and elephant extensively. I agree with you regarding recoil. First, I believe, like I think you do, that one can become accustomed to a pretty stiff amount of recoil with the willingness to work into it. Second, when shooting game the shooter is focused on the game and, unlike target shooting, felt recoil is greatly reduced because of that focus. My elephant rifle is a 458wm, and I have to work into the recoil when I lay off shooting it. But put an elephant, cape buffalo or even a bushbuck or baboon in front of the rifle and recoil is barely sufficient to let me know the rifle has fired. But a fellow has to get to know his safari rifles, and if he starts out worried about the recoil, and perhaps reluctant to work up his tolerance, imo, he is better off with a lighter recoiling rifle, even though sacrificing capability. JPK Free 500grains | |||
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He did say that he had 5 years and was willing to work his way up with handloads. 5 years is enough time to learn how to shoot from scratch if he had to. | |||
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Very true, if he was willing. Then the 458wm trumps the other choices, imo. Just as you suggested earlier. Free 500grains | |||
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I would be very comfortable with an AHR model CZ in 450 Rigby... Soft point in the chamber, and four solids in the magazine. That said, I am having a very old model 70 (SN:22,xxx) stocked that Jim Kobe barreled for me in 450/375 RUM. I'll be shooting it in about six weeks. | |||
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I never owned anything larger than a 340 weatherby until about 5 years ago. Since then I have acquired a 375 H&H, 375 Wea., 416 Rem., 458WM, 458 Lott and a 470NE. What I have noticed is what many have said 1000 times before. Proper fit, especially LOP makes a lot of difference and adding 1/2 lb of weight is additional helpful in managing recoil. I have to say the Lott and the 470 popped me about the same. That being said, I took out my 300 Rem Ultra Mag. a month ago loaded to the hilt with 95gr of RL 25 behind some 180 accubonds and it was about un noticeable (relative to my memory). Goes to show you that you can learn to work up to larger guns. The 300 ultra pales to the Lott or the 470. Once upon a time I thought the 300 ultra was a handful. Practice, practice, practice… You can do it! EZ | |||
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Nothing like a real kicker to put little pop guns like the 300 RUM into perspective.  Doesn't seem to help with the noise though, my RUM is a real earsplitter. | |||
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A darn fine Buffalo set up wth Swift A Frames or North Fork Softs and Cup points.  | |||
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You will NOT have a problem in Tanz or RSA hunting Buffalo with a 9.3x62. | |||
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Wow, that was quite a little flurry of replies since I was last on here. And a couple more affirmative nods to the 9.3x62, which is in fact the Hawkeye African model. JPK: Did a bunch of searches of "9.3 cape buffalo" and it seems it's not uncommon, with those who've used it saying it's fine and (mostly) those that haven't saying it's crazy. I can certainly see that you would have to be more selective in shot selection with expanding bullets. Is a quartering frontal shot through the near shoulder - that is, aiming for bullet to hit bone before continuing to vitals - advisable or even possible with a bullet like AF or NF? Or would you have to wait for a better angle? Still waiting to hear from gunsmith on M70 conversion $$$. Thanks again all for the insight and encouragement. -Scott | |||
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wjs, OzHunter, who posted a couple of times immediately prior to you most recent post has put the 9.2x62 to excellent use on cape buffalo. Aiming for bone is the right thing to do with any cartridge when buff hunting, imo, onside or offside as the situation presents itself. And yes the 9.3x62 is up to the job with A Frames or North Fork soft point, or a TSX. A North Fork Cup Point would be the ultimate buffalo "solid," offering some very limited expansion but still very deep penetration. Be aware that you will want to hit your buff a bit lower than you are probably accustomed to for deer. More forward too if shooting broadside. Elevation between 20% up from the bottom to about 33% of the way up is a sweet spot, half way up is the top end of the range and will do the job, but there is no margin for error if your shot is higher. Deer die readily with a high lung shot toward the rear of the rib cage, but with a buff you could entirely miss the lungs, and lung shot buff can go some, one lung they can go a Long way. The vitals are displayed well in Kevin Robertson's book, "The Perfect Shot." Here is an overlay from Chifuti Safaris, and as you can see, the lungs do not extend to the rear nearly as much as on a deer. http://www.chifutisafaris.com/...lacement_buffalo.jpg Here is another overlay of the vitals, from Safari Press and I believe from "The perfect Shot." http://search.aol.com/aol/imag...ct+shot+cape+buffalo With a Ruger Hawkeye African Express, in 9.3x62, add a low power scope in Talley QD mounts, with a Talley peep, and you are really set to go, all you need is some practice with that rifle! JPK Free 500grains | |||
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