jrn,

Good to hear of your .458 WIN Ruger No.1 coming up.
That was my first ever BIG BORE in '84.
Wish I had never traded it off.
Will fix that deficit soon.
Here, I am down to muzzle loader only for the rest of the year, if lucky enough to get out.
So it is great to vicariously hunt the .458 WIN with you. GOOD LUCK!

The Nikon SlugHunter has spoiled me.
I have two spares while the first one is getting warranty replacement of the loose locking ring and O-ring in front of the objective lens.
Nevertheless it performed flawlessly for over 400 rounds of .458 WIN, I only noticed the extruding O-ring when I went to try a flip-up lens cap on the objective bell.
I will devise a spanner tool to periodically check tightness of the locking ring in the future.

A SlugHunter will be perfect on a Ruger No.1, with the quarter rib J-B Welded.
Otherwise one ought to take the scope off and check screws occasionally, the screws/pins holding the quarter rib to barrel.

Rip ...

I am still looking for some HBN powder for those 350-grain TSX bullets, like CTF says.
Everytime I google it I get off on a tangent watching youtube videos about it.
Sumbuddy who know good source?

Rip ...

I have exhausted the Classic issues of GUNS magazine through 1968.
But never fear, we have the GUN DIGEST on disc and/or paper from 1944 to 2019.
Yes, GUN DIGEST 2019 rolls out in the latter half of 2018, like with automobiles.

So we have GUN DIGEST 1957 with what may be the first ever report of the .458 WIN in Africa.
It may document the first animals killed with the .458 WIN, in Africa.
Maybe the first elephant ever taken with the .458 WIN.
It was a brain shot.
It was a one-shot kill with factory ammo in 1956,
500-grain steel-jacketed FMJ "solid."
Quartering brain shot from 13 yards, on right side of elephant at about 35 to 40 degrees to the rear of broadside.
So it would have been angled slightly upward too, at that range.
Suffice it to say that iron sights were sufficient at 13 yards.
The bullet traversed the skull and brain and ended up at the base of the left tusk.
Our hero aimed "about 8 inches behind and 6 inches below the spot where I had calculated his earhole, and squeezed the trigger."
He had done some study of elephant skulls on the ground in Kenya.

Rip ...

So who the heck was Richard C. Heck?
He received a loaner "experimental model rifle" in .458 WIN along with 100 rounds of softs and 100 rounds of solids from the Winchester folks,
tested them with a few shots at paper and an elm tree,
then sent them "by steamship to Nairobi via Mombasa"
circa 1956.

Rip ...

Mr. Heck had another hunter with him whose turn at a rhino came first on the fateful safari.
This Dr. Stacy asked to use the .458 WIN M70 African instead of his own .375 H&H M70. Done.

"... the 458 Magnum first saw action on a big bull rhino which was shot by Dr. Stacy, who had joined me ... This was the first game killed with the 458 Magnum, and from the penetration on the rhino it was clear the rifle had ample power."

Rip ...

Excerpts for Book Review GUN DIGEST 1957: Good book.
Excerpts follow, from pp. 113-117.

"Selah!" is Hebrew, of uncertain meaning, punctuating The Psalms of The Holy Book,
assumed to be a note to the reader or listener to pause and consider, to appraise or praise, or just listen to the music.
Thus ends a Psalm to the .458 WIN.
THE MISSION bell continues to ring.

Rip ...

RIP,
I had the incorrect load data in my initial post and have corrected there and offer it here. plus I ran to the range today and put it over the chrono.

77.2 grains H4895
Winchester large Magnum primer
Hornady Brass
350 grain TSX seated to 3.44 OAL

Velocity 2429 avg


This is not a barn burner by any stretch. However, it still generates 4586 ft lbs at the muzzle.


Also, the no. 1 was my first big bore in 1994 (and I remember the derision of my friends - to which I responded "how will I shoot an elephant without an elephant gun).

Sadly this rifle did not go to the dark continent with me. Instead a cz550 in 375 went in its place(along with a 12g SxS).

JRN

quote:

Originally posted by jrn:
RIP,
... I ran to the range today and put it over the chrono.

77.2 grains H4895
Winchester large Magnum primer
Hornady Brass
350 grain TSX seated to 3.44 OAL

Velocity 2429 avg

Noted, for THE MISSION, thanks.
Elvis is still in the building.

So, if that is a 5-yard velocity, MV is 2445 fps.
A proven, accurate deer load.
H4895 is a favorite for accuracy and temperature insensitivity in many of my loads,
yes, I buy it by the 8# jug too.
But just to show how much slower H4895 is than H4198,
72.0 grains >>> 2516 fps MV (as noted before, rifle and handloading specifics above)
77.0 grains >>> 2627 fps MV
There were no pressure signs, I had just planned to stop there,
though I knew Bob Mitchell had gone to 80.0 grains and over 2750 fps MV with same bullet and COL, in a 25" CZ barrel.
Bob used a good lot of powder, WLRM primer (mine was F215) and faster rifle than mine?
I am looking forward to working up to 80.0 grains of H4198,
with HBN tumbled TSX and a 25" Shilen barrel,
next time out.
I'll go from 75.0 to 80.0 grains of H4198.

This is not a barn burner by any stretch. However, it still generates 4586 ft lbs at the muzzle.

Obviously a great, low-pressure, accuracy load that delivers the mail,
about 4.6 Kilo-foot-pounds of mail.

Also, the no. 1 was my first big bore in 1994 (and I remember the derision of my friends - to which I responded "how will I shoot an elephant without an elephant gun).

You have done very well to keep it, not swap it for a .458 Lott or some other such floozy.
I was young and foolish and ended up with a .458 Lott which I at least had the gumption to get rechambered to .450 NE.
In terms of Kilo-foot-pounds, a Ruger No.1 in .458 WIN can outgun a Ruger No.1 in .458 Lott, any day of the week.

Sadly this rifle did not go to the dark continent with me. Instead a cz550 in 375 went in its place(along with a 12g SxS).

JRN

I won't make that mistake again either.
Every safari deserves the accompaniment of a .458 WIN.
It's the honorable thing to do.

Rip ...

4sixteen,

There you go again, posting velocities without other handloading specifications, like powder charges and COL?
But we'll take it, of lesser meaningfulness though it is, for THE MISSION, thank you.

RIP,
I am currently using warne rings(with a little liquid tape inside) on the savage(slughunter), picture below. (No. 1 has standard ruger rings and wears a 2x7 Leup.)
JRN

jrn,

I noticed the Warne rings on the Shaw-Savage .458 WIN,
but Momma always said not to say anything if I can't say something good.

The Liquid Electrician's Tape (3M) is good. Ross Seyfried trick.
I use clear or black silicone adhesive (RTV) a lot.
Mainly to seal out any water or oil from getting between scope and rings,
but it sure does add to the grip of the rings on the scope, makes it easier to not overtighten ringtop screws, peace of mind.

Are you trying to goad me into saying I do not like vertical split rings, with or without the "drop-out" recoil stops on the bottom of them?
I have busted Warne and Talley rings alike.

You would be much better served by Burris Xtreme Tactical rings for about 40 bucks, they are bomb proof.
Burris XTR Signature rings for about 80 bucks will be tried by me next.

The standard Ruger rings that come with the Ruger rifles from the Ruger factory (or Midway USA) are great too.
I heartily approve of OEM Ruger rings on integral Ruger bases.

Rip ...

RIP
No goading as I am not a fan of the split rings either. However, a moment of desperation and lack of selection at the local emporium led to the purchase. Those Burris rings do appear to be the cat’s pajamas as they say and are in line for trial.
JRN

In 1960, my close friend, Glendon Rae, went with his very young family to Kenya, Africa. He was to become a teacher/administrator at the Rift Valley Academy.

For recreation purposes, he took two rifles: a new M70 African in .458 Win Mag and another M70 in .300 Win Mag. When it came time for a break/vacation each year, he with family (a wife, young boy and daughter) went camping for about a month, along with a few other staff members. The men all carried their rifles and did a safari in the process. He shot many plains game with the .300 and many DG, including elephant and cape buff, with his .458, using Winchester factory ammo. On furlough, every fourth year, they returned to Canada and paid a visit to our family. He never reported any failures using either rifle. No such thing as squib loads! He killed many elephant and sold their tusks for financing their return trips to Canada. That went on until hunting was shut down in Kenya.

I've always kept that in mind when hearing about all the "failures" of the .458 in Africa. Each and every year he did a "safari" for the biggest and baddest Kenya had to offer with no complaints over the performance of the rifles or ammo.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Bob,

Good to know of your friend's many successes with a .458 WIN and .300 WIN battery in old Kenya.
Hard to think of a more versatile combo, for any sort of game at any range.
My .458 WIN Knik Knocker and .300 WIN Tick Licker Ruger Mark II rifles will duplicate that in spades, and as canoe paddles!

The conspiracy of naysayers have naught to say now, more naught now than ever, with the new powders and bullets.

Even that earliest of .458 WIN data from H.P. White lab testing (that ALF brought to us early on in this thread) belied the naysayers.



This, I assume, is late-1955 to mid-1956 data that Julian S. Hatcher published in AMERICAN RIFLEMAN of August 1956.
25" Winchester pressure barrel of .4582" groove and .450" land/bore diameter was used, 6-groove, 1:14" RH twist:

Hornady 500-grain RNSP (.458") with 75.0 grains of IMR-3031, 3.36" COL: 2188 fps at only 51,470 PSI ! ... That's LongCOL.

Hornady 350-grain RNSP (.458") with 70.0 grains of IMR-3031, 3.10" COL: 2206 fps at only 28,900 PSI !!

Winchester 500-grain steel-FMJ solid (.4573"), 3.34" COL, was loaded to 2160 fps at only 50,410 PSI !!!

Winchester 510-grain RNSP (.4575"), 3.34" COL, was loaded to 2158 fps at only 48,560 PSI !!!!

Excerpts from HATCHER'S NOTEBOOK are included below for book review purposes. Book Review: Good book.
This puts a date of Nov. 8, 1955 on when Maj. Gen. (Retired) Julian S. Hatcher received the prototype rifle and ammo for testing.
I assume the test data by H.P. White was done circa that date.
He got the corrected version or "improved model" of the rifle in July 1956, and his write-up for AMERICAN RIFLEMAN appeared in August 1956.

I assume that 1956 version is the one that went to Africa with Richard C. Heck, and Winchester was shipping them to the public in late 1956.

Rip ...

Hatcher updated his 1947 first edition in 1957 and third edition was in 1962.
From pages 501 and 502 of the Stackpole Books reprint in 1966:

Rip ...

Bob's goddaughter, Bobbarrela, ought to be getting out of Hilltop Gun Shop and Spa for Wayward Rifles tomorrow.
I will slug her Shilen barrel and check the "slug jump" of the throat ASAP.

Longer COL, more pressure, way faster velocities.
Don't cry for the .458 Lott, Argentina.

Rip ...

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by 4sixteen:
I would take my .416 Ruger Alaskan (not yet available when this thread was started as someone had mentioned, and subsequently discontinued) - with the scope removed and loaded with 400 gr RN bullets at about 2300 fps MV - big bad bear medicine.




perfection.

Why not?

A picture for the mission. The last day of rifle season - Ruger No. 1 458, waiting...

Thinking of pictures, RIP, I finally posted some more in AR using imgur, but heard nothing more of "Zoinks!"

Getting them to open up automatically seems to be a skill I've forgotten, though.

Thanks RIP for those pages from Hatcher's Notebook. I hadn't seen them before.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by 4sixteen:
I would take my .416 Ruger Alaskan (not yet available when this thread was started as someone had mentioned, and subsequently discontinued) - with the scope removed and loaded with 400 gr RN bullets at about 2300 fps MV - big bad bear medicine.




perfection.

Why not?

Always the conundrum, which one to take hunting - .416 or .458? Like 'em all.

.458 WM Remington 798


.416 RM custom Zastava LK M70


.458 Lott custom Sako AV


.416 Ruger Alaskan

4sixteen;

I recall a funny situation at a lodge where a couple of friends and I were bear hunting many years ago. We were the only Canadians among a dozen or so others. One, who came up from New York State had won a gift of this hunt. He brought two rifles, both in .356 Win. One was a Winchester 94 XTR (identical to one owned by my son), and the other in a Marlin 336. Every time he emerged from his room next to ours, getting ready to leave for the hunt, he'd encounter some of us in the hallway. Then he'd express his dilemma: "Which should I take?" he'd ask us... every day!

I had a similar situation when I owned too many .45-70s. It was pared down to one in a Ruger #1 when I got honest with myself in recognizing that the Ruger No.1 wasn't getting much hunting action because of its competition and I didn't want to "abuse" this beautiful rifle! It had become a "safe queen"! Once I got rid of the others it began to breath some fresh air and sense the vitality of wilderness adventures... the same as I do. Being one with the rifle is the quintessential expression of a hunting adventure that truly satisfies.

"Safe Queens" can't do that for us!

RIP: I did read of the White's Lab report on the .458 Win Mag many years ago in an early LYMAN manual when researching loads for my first .458, but never the details of Hatcher's Notebook.

Today, I'm putting together some loads for the 500gr Hornady and 450gr X-Bullet (don't have any 450 TSX's). The X-Bullet will be seated to 3.75". Hope to make at least 2350 to 2400 fps from that, but may not get to shoot it before April '19 as winter has set in here for keeps, I'm thinkin'. Our range is at the bottom of a nasty hill and I don't want to get stuck down there until spring!

I got over 2300 fps from the 450 A-Frame in my #1 Ruger LT using H335. It should therefore be possible for the 450-X to get another 100 fps from the Ruger Tropical .458.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

No safe queens. These have all downed game and will continue to do so. Situation addressed through rotation rather than paring down. The .458 Lott is up next this Spring.

#1 Ruger LT?

quote:

Originally posted by 4sixteen:
No safe queens. These have all downed game and will continue to do so. Situation addressed through rotation rather than paring down. The .458 Lott is up next this Spring.

#1 Ruger LT?

Problem: We can only do so much hunting. Rotating? Each gets to go once in four years? Doesn't sound like a good marriage to me.

Very nice rifles, BTW!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

4sixteen;

Is that a 24" on the 798 or a 22"?

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

#1 Ruger LT was the #1 Ruger .45-70 with the long throat that I had my gunsmith add to my new #1. I've owned two #1 Rugers in .45-70. That was my second about twenty years ago. It was traded on the #1 Tropical .458 a few months ago because of concern over retina detachment from recoil. I'll be 83 in three weeks, and while I could handle the recoil of the light #1 in .45-70 LT, I wanted about the same ballistics with less recoil. That happens with the Ruger Tropical due to 2-lbs extra weight and the Mag-na-ports. Same ballistics (or a bit more) but 38% less recoil.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Each gets to go once in 4 years?? I get to go hunting a lot more often than that.

With the 40+ calibers velocity backed off a bit for less recoil doesn't reduce effectiveness all that much.

I also have a .45-70 Ruger No.1-S with a lengthened throat so that bullets can be seated out further for increased case capacity. I prefer the handiness of the 'S' models over the heavyweight 'H' models.

My 798 .458 WM has a 23" barrel. Stomps Moose real good at close range with a 500gr RN at 1900 fps MV.