Elmer Keith's second article about his first (Nov-Dec 1957) African safari, in the GUNS NOV '59 Classic Issue,
says everything about guns for cape buffalo,
and that means guns for any dangerous game on the planet.

It tells of a PH using a .416 Rigby who got tossed by a buff: Norman Reed.

It tells of a PH killed by a client-wounded cape buffalo in '48 or '49 despite the PH getting both barrels of his "heavy double rifle" into the buff,
at 5-yards range just before the buff stuck a horn into the PH's groin: Roy Leny died in hospital.

And a year after Elmer Keith's safari, his PH, John Laswrence, got pummeled by a cape buffalo, despite a .458 Win. through the lungs by the client,
followed by a .416 Rigby through the lungs by John Lawrence.
Now I understand what the squat was about.
John Lawrence probably got relief from his chronic pain from lumbar spinous process fractures and coccyx fractures by posturing like that.

Rip ...

Summary:

It's all just BS unless you hit them in the right spot.
A "bloody big hole" from the .458 Win. is very good at that.
The .458 Win. might even be useful as a snake and rat gun with a column of 7-1/2 shot between two gas checks?
Therefore it might be the most useful all-around rifle in the world, from snake charmer to elephant charmer,
especially considering all its other practical aspects,
including beating the .458 Lott at the .458 Lott's game.


Rip ...

Good read ! Yup, gotta put the bullets in a good spot. And have good bullets. So it doesn't seem the 476 is any better killer than the 458. Nor the 4sixteeny. ;-)

Charlie O'Neil
Elmer Keith
Don Hopkins
Partners in the O.K.H. wildcats of 1936-1937.
First three OKH cats were the .285 OKH and .333 OKH on the .30-06 case, and the .334 OKH on the longer, belted .300 H&H case.
That's one 7mm-caliber and two true .333-caliber cats, like the .333 Jeffery.
The .333 bullets were originally imported from England.
Then Fred Barnes started making them for O.K.H. in 250 and 300-grain weights.

Elmer loved that little .333 OKH with 300-grain bulets at about 2300 fps, reportedly.

The long spitzer softpoint flew well from his 26"-barreled custom Mauser, and Elmer claimed 450-yard plains game hits with it on his first safari.
He used a K-4 Weaver scope.

Funny thing about Elmer's pet .333 OKH was that it was long-throated and LONG-COL loaded compared to the usual cartridges of the day.
The standard Mauser action had to be opened up to accept a COL of 3-9/16" (3.563"), on the necked-up 2.494" .30-06 case.

Elmer would understand a .458 Win. very well.

The basic philosophy underlying the O.K.H. cartridges was efficiency in big game hunting cartridges.
But they skipped right over the .458 (.450 Watts Magnum took care of that in 1949) and O.K.H. diddled either side of that:
.424 OKH and .475 OKH.
Those latter two were sometime after 1949, IIRC,
as was the 2.5"-H&H-cased .333 O.K.H. Belted: Forerunner to the .338 Winchester Magnum.
By then the wildcatters were going, well, wild!
Lots of similar cartridges by many others.

However, even now, the originality of my .395-caliber line-up of wildcats is secure in the annals of obscurity.
Or is that anals of idiocy?

Well, now I gotta get out my .338-06 Modelo Argentino with a 24" barrel, 1:10" twist and see if it will shoot 300-grainers.
It might need a faster twist and longer barrel to keep up with Elmer's "little" safari rifle.


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quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
... So it doesn't seem the 476 is any better killer than the 458. Nor the 4sixteeny. ;-)

Ah ha! Ho ho! Hi ho, .458 Win.!


Rip ...

Elmer and I have a lot in common.
Just a couple of po'boy gunnuts who both went to Tanganyika/Tanzania for the first time on somebuddy else's dime.
Thanks be to White Hunters Limited and to Saeed.
Also, the .270 WCF small-bores me to sleep.
The .416 Ruger makes up into a much better sheep rifle than the .270 WCF.
And the .458 Win. is even better.


Rip ...

Fascinating indeed was Elmer's .333 OKH that he selected as light rifle to make safari,
loaded like a .458 Win. LongCOL, to maximize efficiency.
Horsepower and accuracy of that little cartridge were well trusted by Elmer Keith

The Bob Hagel article in HANDLOADER Number 4, Nov.-Dec. 1966 entitled "O.K.H. Cartridges" gives details noted here on the .333 OKH:
COL of 3-9/16" (3.563")
Most .333 OKH rifles were built with 25" barrel, Elmer had a 26-incher.
Hagel:

"... This is where the .333 on the '06 case comes in--for shorter actions. Even then it required lengthening of standard actions, because bullets of from 250 to 300 grains were used and seated flush with the base of the neck--at least with the 250-grain bullet--and had an overall length of 3-9/16".

"... A 250-grain Barnes spitzer bullet with thin cup-jacket ahead of 60 grains of 4350 gave a muzzle velocity of 2,600. While I don't have the exact figures for the 300-grain bullet, 54 to 55 grains of 4350 gave something like 2,300 fps. This was from a 25-inch barrel with which most .333 rifles were fitted. ..."

Ken Howell's CUSTOM CARTRIDGES page 248 has a drawing of the .333 OKH brass cartridge.
It is identical to a standard .30-06 Springfield,
necked up for .333" bullet diameter,
with brass length shortened to 2.440".
Thus 0.054" shortening, which is reasonable for simply necking up .30-06 brass, fire-forming, and trimming to square and uniform the case mouth.

Here we have the granddaddy of the .458 Win. LongCOL, the .333 OKH.



Circa 1956 Elmer probably told the Winchester engineers how to throat "that newfangled .458 Winchester so-called Magnum."
(Elmer speaking around his cigar)

"Y'see, just use a wide-based, long, leade-only throat. No parallel-sided free-bore a'tall.
Just let the case-mouth chamfer at the end of the chamber drop down to ten-thou greater than maximum bullet diameter.
Then the leade starts with an angle of no more than one-half degree semi-angle, yep, no more than 1 degree cone angle on that leade.
Zero degrees, twenty-nine minutes, thirty seconds on that leade semi-angle ought to be 'bout perfect.
OK? Got it?"
(Elmer chomps cigar in teeth)

The rest is true history.


Rip ...

In HELL, I WAS THERE!,
Elmer added some details, good and bad and informative,
to what was printed in GUNS about his first safari with the .333 OKH and .476 WR, in late 1957.
He admits, page 208:

"By this time we found out that my 300-grain steel jacket Kynoch soft-nose bullets from the .333 OKH were blowing up badly and not penetrating. I shot a little 40-pound "Tommy" quartering away at 80 yards in the left flank. The bullet never went through him, just blew to pieces. I actually had missed but the one shot when the oryx swung his head out of my sights just as I shot. John said the boys came to him and told him, 'We have a good bwana this time. We're going to have a good trip. He can shoot.' "

That shot Elmer missed was supposed to have been at 400 to 450 yards.
Apparently the .333/300-grain Kynoch bullets slowed down enough at longer range to hold together better than at +2200 fps at 80 yards.


Rip ...

This suggests an Elmer Keith training combo:

.458 Win. LongCOL with 500-grain TSX at 2300 fps
.338-'06 LongCOL with 300-grainer at 2300 fps.
Throat the .338-06 by following Winchester engineering instruction from Elmer, above, the LAW Throat.
Use 25" or 26" barrel.
Voila!
The .338 OKH.


Rip ...

Well, I skipped right over the first article Elmer wrote about his first African safari in late 1957.
That was published in GUNS, June 1958, entitled "Simba!"
Since the .333 OKH figured so highly in that,
and it is the granddaddy to the .458 Win. LongCOL,
as proven above,
I want to add that here,
For The Mission: wait for it ...


Rip ...

Rip ...

And there you have it, a history of the .458 Win. LongCOL evolution from the .333 OKH of 1936.
If God Himself did not invent the throat of the .458 Win. in 1956, then Elmer Keith did.
We live, and we learn.
Or we just make it up as we go along.
Might as well just skip onward to the .338 Win. LongCOL aka ".338/.333 OKH Belted"
to acknowledge OKH work a decade before the release of the .338 Winchester "so-called" Magnum.

There is a nifty two-gun combo: .458 Win. LongCOL and .338 Win. LongCOL.
Not meant for trajectory duplication,
just a flatter shooting .338 Win. (PGR) to go with the almighty .458 Win. (DGR).


Rip ...

Trivia:
The .458 Win., .338 Win., and .264 Win. "so-called" Magnums were all released about the same time, late 1950s., 1956-1958, IIRC.
They all have leade-only throats, with zero parallel-sided free-bore.
They all have their throats start with a base of leade being about 2 percent greater in diameter than SAAMI spec maximum bullet diameter.

.458 Win. leade angle is only about 0.5 degrees (0*29'30").
.338 Win. and .264 Win. leade angles are identical: Exactly 2 degrees.

Rip ...

Atkinson's version of the .338/.333 OKH Belted aka (preferred by me) the .338 Win. LongCOL/Longclaw:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...841027242#4841027242

Perfect mate to the .458 Win. Longclaw.
I'm finally on to it.
Thanks, Atkinson.


Rip ...

quote:

just a flatter shooting .338 Win. (PGR)

If there is a finer plains game round I wouldn't know what it is.
Full-Medium diameter, reasonable and heavy bullet weights, good-to-great sectional density, good velocity, and flat trajectory in easy-carrying, lightweight rifles. 3-3-8. WinMag.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

If there is a finer plains game round I wouldn't know what it is.

That would be called the 340 WBY Mag!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

If there is a finer plains game round I wouldn't know what it is.

That would be called the 340 WBY Mag!

I'll grant you that the 340 Weatherby is a better elk cartridge. And what's more, if Ruger had come out with a 338 Ruger 10 years ago I would have bought one and happily used it in Africa, even though in Africa a person just doesn't need the extra 100fps for the same bullets.

Hunting in Africa is under 400 yards. And, well, the 338WinMag is right up there with sliced bread. When I've wanted or needed more than the 338, I've wanted more than the 340, too.

Of course, in this thread we are only talking about a second, light rifle to complement something over 40. The 340 Weatherby and 338 Win Mag certainly qualify as great second rifles. Elmer would approve, but then so would Carmichael and truth be told, probably Jack himself.

Hell! Even Ross Seyfried likes the .340 Wby!
Something we all agree on!

So how do you make the .338 Winchester equal to the .340 Weatherby in net/effective case capacity?

All it takes is to throat it longer and increase the COL by only 0.278".
A .338" diameter cylinder displaces 22.69 grains of water for each inch of its length.
0.278" length of that cylinder/bullet displaces 6.3 grains of water.
That is the difference between gross case capacities of the .340 Wby and the .338 Win.
Yep, just that little bit as shown by the algorithms of RCBS.
Close enough for purposes of The Mission.
This is not a jackalope.
The .458 Win. is a spawn of Elmer Keiths's .333 OKH.


Rip ...

The evolution of the .333 OKH:
The RCBS reference shows the commonly reported COL of 3.340" for the .333 OKH.
Bob Hagel says Elmer used extended magazine box and long throat, as reported above.
He would need an H&H-length box for the +3.56" COL of the .333 OKH.




Rip ...

Elmer loved the .400 Whelen for timber elk, bears, and such.



(Just five tiny scars on the dorsum of my little-used, non-dominant thumb.
I hear that Elmer handily beat that too.
He was a horny handed son of toil,
and extensive third-degree burn survivor.
He wore size-5 cowboy boots.
And still no one can fill them.)

The tricks learned with the .400 WPB will work to convert any .30-06 Spr. M70 Classic to a .338 OKH six- or seven-shooter,
or any .338 Win. M70 Extreme Weather to a 7-pound .338 OKH Belted five-shooter ...
or a 7-pound .458 Win five-shooter, with a No.4 sporter contour if barrel is not too long.


Rip ...

.400 WPB M70 Classic with No.4 sporter Shilen stainless 25" barrel, is 7 lbs. 12 oz. with two-piece Warne/QRW bases 8x40-ed and J-B Welded:

.338 Win. M70 Ultimate Weather from SC, factory barrel is fluted and 26" long, dry weight 6 lbs. 14 oz., before 5-ounce steel rail was added:



Barrel is like a fluted "No.2-1/2" sporter.
The scope rail will be 8x40-ed and J-B Welded, to handle either
a 2.5-pound S&B P&M II 4-16x50mm mildot,
or a 6.5-ounce Leupold Ultralight,
and a Nikon SlugHunter, of course.


Rip ...

Either of the two rifles above with the XRM 3.6" box would make a nice .458 Win. rifle.
I feel some .338 OKH and .338 OKH Belted dummies coming on, to try in the rifles.
Then some .458 Win. dummies, of course.
For The Mission.


Rip ...

quote:

and a Nikon SlugHunter, of course.

The Slughunter is not so much a 338 scope but may be more of a 458 affair with its 75-yard parallax setting.

The 338 Win Mag is intended to reach out farther and can benefit from the 100-yard parallax of the Nikon Inline (Muzzleloader scope).

The Slughunter and the Inline are the same scope but with different parallax settings, 75-yard and 100-yard, respectively. In many websites the Slughunter is found when searching for "shotgun" scopes, not "rifle". Something similar holds true for the Inline, which may be listed under "muzzleloading" scopes, not "rifles". Both are the greatest bargain going for heavy-recoiling rifles, at about $200.

416Tanzan,

Thanks for the reminder on the SlugHunter parallax ... again ... For The Mission, much appreciated.

I am so good at getting my eye centered behind the scope that parallax is not an issue for me, does not exist.
If Elmer can shoot deer at 600 yards with a revolver, I can shoot gongs at 600 yards with a SlugHunter.

And besides, using Elmer's small bore, the .338, eye relief is not a concern.
Might as well go on up to the parallax-adjustable Nikon scopes if I want to get sloppy with my hold and let fly with parallax involved.


Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

just a flatter shooting .338 Win. (PGR)

If there is a finer plains game round I wouldn't know what it is.
Full-Medium diameter, reasonable and heavy bullet weights, good-to-great sectional density, good velocity, and flat trajectory in easy-carrying, lightweight rifles. 3-3-8. WinMag.

Nice to know there is something we agree on !

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

just a flatter shooting .338 Win. (PGR)

If there is a finer plains game round I wouldn't know what it is.
Full-Medium diameter, reasonable and heavy bullet weights, good-to-great sectional density, good velocity, and flat trajectory in easy-carrying, lightweight rifles. 3-3-8. WinMag.

Nice to know there is something we agree on !

It's easy to agree on a 338!

Even a 458 would be an easy call if it werem't for a tendency for people to move in double steps. When a person wants to move up or down in power or caliber they tend to move a couple of steps so that the change is more significant. Since I have 416's and a 500, the 458 is sort of straddled. Right now the 500 is a great rifle, but there is a lot of recoil. Within the next decade I will almost certainly want to downsize a bit. Would I drop to a 458 with 400 grain GSC's from my 500 with 450gn GSC's? Or would a more significant downsize be appreciated, to a 416 with 330 GSC's? You can appreciate the decision making.

PS: while I'm discussing downsizing, you might ask 'Why not all the way to a 375 Ruger?' Good question. But in the game of double-step, that gets very close to my 338 WinMag. The 416 Ruger would provide a double-step up from my 338.

The rule of double-step explains a lot of choices that people make. For example, with a small battery, if they have a 375, do they go out to get a 416, or would they more likely go up to a 458? If they have a 270 do they go get a 30-06, or something bigger, either 300 WM or 338 WinMag? Double-step choices tend to dominate until they start to fill in all of the niches.

One tiny thing to have in mind with the 375 + 416 Rugers .
Tho I think there is enough difference. Or perhaps everyone else's organizational skills far surpass mine.

Grabbing the wrong ammo for the rifle in hand.
That was 1 reason I sold my 93x62 Mauser. It was so similar to the 93x64 B in look and feel I was concerned I would grab the wrong shells some day.
Maybe its much ado about nothing .
But, similar things have happened to me . And I know a couple guys that have shot 270 Winchester ammo in their 06 because they grabbed the wrong shells.
One time I did find myself 30 miles out of Hoonah with only the ammo I had in the mag of my rifle. A 375 H+H . Because the ammo I had thrown in my pack was 375 Ruger. At the last minute I had decided to bring the H+H that day instead of the Alaskan I usually had with me at that time.