quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

just a flatter shooting .338 Win. (PGR)

If there is a finer plains game round I wouldn't know what it is.
Full-Medium diameter, reasonable and heavy bullet weights, good-to-great sectional density, good velocity, and flat trajectory in easy-carrying, lightweight rifles. 3-3-8. WinMag.

Nice to know there is something we agree on !

It's easy to agree on a 338!

Even a 458 would be an easy call if it werem't for a tendency for people to move in double steps. When a person wants to move up or down in power or caliber they tend to move a couple of steps so that the change is more significant. Since I have 416's and a 500, the 458 is sort of straddled. Right now the 500 is a great rifle, but there is a lot of recoil. Within the next decade I will almost certainly want to downsize a bit. Would I drop to a 458 with 400 grain GSC's from my 500 with 450gn GSC's? Or would a more significant downsize be appreciated, to a 416 with 330 GSC's? You can appreciate the decision making.

Yes I can.
For where I live and hunt. I kinda single step thru the medium bores . 338 + 375. With a little flip,spin quarter step shuffle with the 375 Whelen. I've got a hankerin for a 416 Ruger GG. But not for anything else in the 458 slot. My rifle has always worked decisively so see no reason to crowd it.
I do agree your steps from 338-375-416-500. Are well thot out. And logical.

Maybe just a bit of velocity reduction with the 500. ???

The "Two Step" caliber dance is a useful analogy for the Rifle Games.

Another event for the games might be the "Triple Jump." Like from .338 to .458?

The .338 was to Elmer Keith as the .270 was to Jack O'Connor.
And I do believe Elmer thought the .458 Win. had no flies on it.

Rip ...

That 265-gr Barnes TAC-TX Boattail is 1.790" long.
It needs to have MV of 2430 fps to stabilize in a 1:10" twist.
Better say greater than 2500 fps is needed for comfort.
That is a bit much to ask of a .338 OKH aka .338-06 LongCOL.
All the other bullets shown above are short enough to work just fine in the .338 OKH, loaded long like Elmer did it.
The M70 Classic shown above handles up to 3.6" COL, 5 down in the box plus one chambered, feeds and ejects all shown very well,
a sixshooter.

The TAC-TX is not a problem for the .338 OKH Belted at 3.5" to 3.6" COL, in the M70 Ultimate Weather rifle with box and boltstop/ejector mods.

The TAC-TX dummy is shown above with a COL of 3.685" as a stunt.
At that COL it is longer than the SAAMI COL for the .340 Wby., which is 3.675".
It exceeds the net case capacity of the .340 Wby. at far shorter than that,
but could be single-shot-loaded at +3.6 COL to beat the .340 Wby well and truly,
with the proper throating, like that on the .458 Win. LAW as laid down by Elmer Keith to the Winchester engineers, pre-1956.

Rip ...

Above is the .44 Magnum S&W M29 6.5-inch with custom grips that Elmer used to "kill five running jackrabbits with one shot at 100 yards."
Four fetal rabbits fell out of the gaping hole in the varmint he shot on the run.
"Honest facts are always stranger than fiction."
So said Elmer Keith.
Is it any wonder that the first name of Elmer Fudd was said by some to have been inspired by Elmer Keith?

Rip ...

Book review: Excellent book.
Elmer went to Enid, Oklahoma and designed that "Keith-grade Champlin & Haskins Rifle" in late 1967.
They gave him pick of a chambering for the first one made and presented it to him. He chose the .458 Win.
The trip and rifle build were also detailed in HELL, I WAS THERE! pp. 283-284.

Pictured with him above are buddies R.W. "Bob" Thomson and Dale Williams, circa 1968, in GUN NOTES VOLUME 1, p. 148.
There is much more of the .458 Win. in Volumes 1 and 2 Of GUN NOTES.
Who would ever doubt that Elmer liked the .458 Win.? Elmer's protege Ross Seyfried?
Ross's anti-.458 schtick must have set Elmer to spinning in his grave.
Elmer had perfervid enthusiasm for the Four-Five-Eight.
Ross must have gotten confused and thought that meant "perverted."

Rip ...

Photo of Elmer ringing out a Ruger No.1 .458 Win.
Fringe benefit of gunwriting: Testing new products for expert, objective reviews.
Photo can be found in GUN NOTES Vol.1 p.32 and also in Craig Boddington's article at G&A website:

http://www.gunsandammo.com/gun...gend-of-elmer-keith/

Rip ...

So is the mission abandoned?

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
So is the mission abandoned?

Hardly. Thanks for the reply Todd Williams.
It is my excuse to come up from a deep dive into old Gun Digests, just to reassure you.
The Mission will not be abandoned, as long as the creeks don't rise too high for me to wade.

Rip ...

The .450 Watts Magnum of James Watts and Harvey Anderson in 1949 is surely the earliest we have documented so far for a "shooter."

In the post WWII period 1940s and 1950s, when the gunnuts weren't making babies they were tinkering with wildcats and conveniently ignoring each other
so they could claim the glory of the .458 or ".450 (insert whatever name here) Magnum."

Some whatevers in no particular order: Fred Barnes, Watts, Buhmiller, Ackley, Weatherby, Mashburn, Ashurst, MacFarland, Corbett, Fred Wells ...

Stand by for the pre-1954 ".458 MCW Express" with the MCW standing for the last three gunsmiths in the list above.

Then more on Fred Barnes, who started making bullets for his own use in 1932, and for everybody else until he sold the business in 1974.
He may be the granddaddy of all the wildcatters of the generations after that of Charles Newton.
Fred Barnes was doing the ".458 Winchester Magnum Improved" several years before there was a .458 Win.

Rip ...

I live and hunt in Alaska, usually exclusively moose hunting. And usually, I hunt alone and late into the evening hours. The areas I normally hunt have restricted visibility.

I have a very hard time picking a single favorite cartridge, but the 338 Win would be my do-all, with a 225 gr TSX or TTSX. In regards to hoofs and antlers or paws and claws, I have confidence that it will work from spitting distance to farther than I shall shoot.

The 375 Ruger with 270 gr TSX, I carry and use the most. Two different Ruger rifles with 20 & 23.5" barrel lengths.

The 20" barrel, 416 Ruger with the 350 gr TSX is becoming a favorite. And frankly has quelled my desires for the 458 Win.
Though, I do have a 458 Win & a 458 Lott. The rifle platforms are not my ideal Alaskan types. The stainless Ruger rifles in 338 Win, 375 & 416Ruger are close. Each of these have aftermarket stocks.

Doubtful if I will spend the money on having a stainless 458 Win put together. Logic says, I should sell the 458's that I have. The 416 Ruger answers my wants and surpasses my needs in above the 375 class.

I also like and have 375 H&H's and a 416 Remington in M70 stainless rifles. I like and appreciate these cartridges, but favor the Ruger versions more. I think simply because the rifles and cartridges are slightly more compact.

If years ago, had there been an off the shelf 22" barrel, stainless Ruger Mark II in 458 Win perhaps I would view things differently. And if Barnes had continued the 400 grain bullet in the TSX.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
PS: while I'm discussing downsizing, you might ask 'Why not all the way to a 375 Ruger?' Good question. But in the game of double-step, that gets very close to my 338 WinMag. The 416 Ruger would provide a double-step up from my 338.

The rule of double-step explains a lot of choices that people make. For example, with a small battery, if they have a 375, do they go out to get a 416, or would they more likely go up to a 458? If they have a 270 do they go get a 30-06, or something bigger, either 300 WM or 338 WinMag? Double-step choices tend to dominate until they start to fill in all of the niches.

I am the Birdman with hundreds of guns, descended as I am from the Dinosaurs. I still say the .458 Win. is tops.
It can be my big bore to a smaller bore,
or my small bore to a bigger bore.

I am working on some shot loads to see if I can make it more useful. No spinning wad, just an ounce or more of 7-1/2 shot,
carried between two gas checks pointed in opposite directions.
Ought to work like a cylinder bore for heart-thumping (my heart), flushing quail and such.
Be still my heart.
This could go way more than 458 pages.

Rip ...

Excerpts for book review of the 1954 edition of GUN DIGEST: Damn fine book.

Behold the .458 MCW Express (by me aka the ".458 McWells"): Mr. MacFarland totally ignores many other versions of the .458/.375 H&H in his writeup.
He gives no dates. We have to say this one is pre-1954, circa 1953.

Rifle had 22"-long barrel of 1:20" twist.
22" is with no muzzle brake.



Mr. MacFarland claimed realistic velocities?
Caution should be used in working up to his maximum loads, starting at 10% below his maximums, for sure!

Fred Wells involvement:



So much for Fred Wells.
Onward to the next Fred.

Fred Barnes was involved in supplying bullets to Mr. MacFarland.
Mr.MacFarland surely knew of Fred N. Barnes who surely was producing the .450 Barnes Supreme as well as the .450 B-J Express by 1954.
The latter was a shorter cartridge like a .458 Win with a shoulder, years before the perfection of the .458 Win.

Rip ...

Another excerpt for book review purposes, GUN DIGEST 1958: Damn good book.

Back to the Barnes pamphlet:

Fred Barnes said:
"... we chambered rifles for the .450 B-J several years before Winchester added a .458 to their line."

That would be what year?
Several is more than a couple.
To be conservative, let us say several is three or four years.
So the .450 B-J Express was circa 1952-1953?

Rip ...

With current powders, the .458 Win. is capable of 2260 fps with 500-grain bullet at 60,000 psi
IF
the .458 Lott is capable of 2300 fps with same 500-grain bullet, but only at the cost of 62,500 psi.

Same bullet and same barrel length for both.
3.340" COL for the .458 Win.
3.600" COL for the .458 Lott.

Amazing but true.
It is due to the throats.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by ldmay375:
I live and hunt in Alaska, usually exclusively moose hunting. And usually, I hunt alone and late into the evening hours. The areas I normally hunt have restricted visibility.

I have a very hard time picking a single favorite cartridge, but the 338 Win would be my do-all, with a 225 gr TSX or TTSX. In regards to hoofs and antlers or paws and claws, I have confidence that it will work from spitting distance to farther than I shall shoot.

The 375 Ruger with 270 gr TSX, I carry and use the most. Two different Ruger rifles with 20 & 23.5" barrel lengths.

The 20" barrel, 416 Ruger with the 350 gr TSX is becoming a favorite. And frankly has quelled my desires for the 458 Win.
Though, I do have a 458 Win & a 458 Lott. The rifle platforms are not my ideal Alaskan types. The stainless Ruger rifles in 338 Win, 375 & 416Ruger are close. Each of these have aftermarket stocks.

Doubtful if I will spend the money on having a stainless 458 Win put together. Logic says, I should sell the 458's that I have. The 416 Ruger answers my wants and surpasses my needs in above the 375 class.

I also like and have 375 H&H's and a 416 Remington in M70 stainless rifles. I like and appreciate these cartridges, but favor the Ruger versions more. I think simply because the rifles and cartridges are slightly more compact.

If years ago, had there been an off the shelf 22" barrel, stainless Ruger Mark II in 458 Win perhaps I would view things differently. And if Barnes had continued the 400 grain bullet in the TSX.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
PS: while I'm discussing downsizing, you might ask 'Why not all the way to a 375 Ruger?' Good question. But in the game of double-step, that gets very close to my 338 WinMag. The 416 Ruger would provide a double-step up from my 338.

The rule of double-step explains a lot of choices that people make. For example, with a small battery, if they have a 375, do they go out to get a 416, or would they more likely go up to a 458? If they have a 270 do they go get a 30-06, or something bigger, either 300 WM or 338 WinMag? Double-step choices tend to dominate until they start to fill in all of the niches.

I'm kinda in the same boat. Same state anyway. Because I live and hunt in the Interior now. I've in a sense down sized my calibers. In late fall and all winter my 6.5 Creedmoor is with me most all the time130 gr Sirocco 2s or 130 gr TSX for bou and 144 gr Lapua fmjbt for predators. Early season I was using the 9.3x64 I had built but have replaced with a 375 Ruger Guide Gun . and a Kimber Montana in 338 Win mag.
I also like the 416s and they have never let me down on Brown bear up close.
But my 458 is the rifle I want in my hands if things might get too up close and personal.
I would actually be surprised if this 375 GG that I have didn't become my fairly full time hunting and rambling rifle. Not for predator calling and hunting. But for most other things. Except bear. Eventually Ill get things wrung out with an optic. I kinda think the 250 gr TTSX will be the bullet I mostly use.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Back to the Barnes pamphlet:

Maybe powder was denser back then.
Andy Runyon on was a 404 BJ man. I have No idea how he crammed as much powder into a case as he claimed to.

I cannot find fault with the 458 Win choice. I have to think the 458 smacks things somewhat harder. I acquired the Win and the Lott with idea of using 400 grain bullets. I have had a 458 Win's for many years, but no use other than busting rocks. The 400 & 450 grainers do an excellent job.

My interest for the 458 waned after hunting with 416 Ruger some. Which likely has more to do with this individual rifle set-up. I like most everything about this particular one. I shoot it as well as about anything I own, and enjoy shooting it. As they say, it feels at home in my hands.

I probably will use this 416 Ruger, or M70 416 Rem, or one of the 375 Rugers for moose this year. I have a hard enough time deciding between these and a 338 Win, without complicating it more with the 458's. At this time my only desire to experiment might be with a 22" 416 Ruger. But, I have little to criticize the 20" about.

With all that said, I am not tossing the 458's out. I have to think with the 400 grain GS Customs, even with standard C.O.L.'s, have to be an outstandingly effective combination for moose and bear.

------------------------------------------------


I'm kinda in the same boat. Same state anyway. Because I live and hunt in the Interior now. I've in a sense down sized my calibers. In late fall and all winter my 6.5 Creedmoor is with me most all the time130 gr Sirocco 2s or 130 gr TSX for bou and 144 gr Lapua fmjbt for predators. Early season I was using the 9.3x64 I had built but have replaced with a 375 Ruger Guide Gun . and a Kimber Montana in 338 Win mag.
I also like the 416s and they have never let me down on Brown bear up close.
But my 458 is the rifle I want in my hands if things might get too up close and personal.
I would actually be surprised if this 375 GG that I have didn't become my fairly full time hunting and rambling rifle. Not for predator calling and hunting. But for most other things. Except bear. Eventually Ill get things wrung out with an optic. I kinda think the 250 gr TTSX will be the bullet I mostly use.[/QUOTE]

What's the difference between the 458 Winchester Imp and the 450/458 B-J Express? What is neck length?
Anyone still make dies or reamers for either--I'm assuming a rechamber just cleans up the chamber? I like the idea of having less bolt thrust due to straighter case body.

RIP,
You inspired me with the idea of the 458 shotgun. As a long time shotgunner I can say the results from my experiment were intriguing. Using Hornady brass, that had been fired multiple times and loaded as follows


primer - Win magnum rifle
powder - 11.7 grains of Alliant 410
wad - Claybuster CB5050-410HS
Shot - 1/2 oz 7.5s
overwad - 1/3 of a packing peanut pressed down with a pencil, sealed with hot glue
to load I quickly found that the 458 case would work in a MEC 600jr I had set up for 410 target loads(in the powder shot charge station only for those who are familiar with this press(since the 458 win is equivalent in length to the Winchester 410AA target case it would also seat the wad)).

(I am not recommending any one use this load, only reporting my results in my particular rifle)


This was tested on a static target for patterning(only at 10 yds) and I am pleased to report that holes in the pattern were not too large (in other words you couldn't through a german shorthair through it).

Since I had only load five I used the remainder, effectively, on hand thrown plastic bottles and a misc. piece of Styrofoam.

Although I will not be tearing up the skeet field with this load, it my intention to try it out on feathered targets.

JRN

ldmay375, and CTF:

Thanks, as always, for contributing to The Mission.
The Mission will not take forever, and it will be accomplished,
Lord willin' and the creeks don't rise.

quote:

Originally posted by ldmay375:
I cannot find fault with the 458 Win choice ...
... My interest for the 458 waned after hunting with 416 Ruger ...
With all that said, I am not tossing the 458's out.
I have to think with the 400 grain GS Customs, even with standard C.O.L.'s,
have to be an outstandingly effective combination for moose and bear.

Right on!
I am up for air after the GUN DIGEST deep dive.
I have witnessed the passing of Townsend Whelen, John Amber, Warren Page, and many more,
to the Happy Hunting Ground.
All good Birdmen go there.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by bcelliott:
What's the difference between the 458 Winchester Imp and the 450/458 B-J Express? What is neck length?
Anyone still make dies or reamers for either--I'm assuming a rechamber just cleans up the chamber? I like the idea of having less bolt thrust due to straighter case body.

bcelliott,

That is a puzzle to me too.
Working on it, for historical purposes, not that I think anything can improve on the .458 Win.

The 7mm'06 Improved by Fred Barnes beat the 280 Remington in many ways including chronological. Fred thought it was "the most practical and efficient of all 7mm cartridges."
But That didn't keep him from going bigger and less efficient with the .276 BJE.

The Barnes-Johnson Express line, in Fred Barnes' description:
Body length to shoulder = 2.125"
Shoulder diameter = 0.500"
Shoulder angle = 35 degrees (cone-angle 70 degrees)
Presumed to all be 2.500" length in the case,
that would make the neck length on the .450 BJE a short one of 0.3615".

The .450 BJE has about a 9% gross case-capacity advantage over the .458 Win,
by the RCBS algorithm, 97.4 grains H2O versus 89.1 grains H2O:



There were more than you could shake a stick at, here are some of the Barnes-Johnson Express "short magnum" lineup:

.276 BJE (7mm, a decade before the 7mm RemMag?)
.308 BJE
8mm BJE ("The hotrod of 8mm" for milsurp M98 Mauser with magazine box lengthened to 3-5/8": Shades of OKH!)
.33 BJE
.375 BJE
.404 BJE
.450 BJE

So the Winchester engineers and Elmer got together and decided to add the extra case capacity to their short magnum by longer throating.
Forget the blow-out to minimal taper and micro-shoulder.
The current powders allow the SAAMI (short COL) .458 Win. to equal or better what the .450 BJE did in the 1950's: 2200 fps with 500-grainer.

Who needs anymore recoil than that?
The mildly tapered .458 Win. feeds better too.

Rip ...

So, the "Copy Right" of 1950 date by Harvey Anderson
for the .450 Watts Magnum
was the only reason Winchester had to get James Watts to sign a release to allow marketing of the .458 Winchester Magnum?
So it has been written as claimed by James Watts.
And still no other wildcatting of the .375 H&H to .458 caliber has been dated earlier than his 1949 creation of working rifle.

Rip ...

Thanks, jrn!
I was hoping sumbuddy would supply some load data to continue this dog and pony show!

quote:

Originally posted by jrn:
RIP,
You inspired me with the idea of the 458 shotgun. As a long time shotgunner I can say the results from my experiment were intriguing. Using Hornady brass, that had been fired multiple times and loaded as follows


primer - Win magnum rifle
powder - 11.7 grains of Alliant 410
wad - Claybuster CB5050-410HS
Shot - 1/2 oz 7.5s
overwad - 1/3 of a packing peanut pressed down with a pencil, sealed with hot glue
to load I quickly found that the 458 case would work in a MEC 600jr I had set up for 410 target loads(in the powder shot charge station only for those who are familiar with this press(since the 458 win is equivalent in length to the Winchester 410AA target case it would also seat the wad)).

(I am not recommending any one use this load, only reporting my results in my particular rifle)


This was tested on a static target for patterning(only at 10 yds) and I am pleased to report that holes in the pattern were not too large (in other words you couldn't through a german shorthair through it).

Since I had only load five I used the remainder, effectively, on hand thrown plastic bottles and a misc. piece of Styrofoam.

Although I will not be tearing up the skeet field with this load, it my intention to try it out on feathered targets.
JRN

Jolly good show!
You have turned the .458 Win. into a .410 shotgun.
I only have the 12 Ga and 20 Ga loading components.
Might have to get some .410 stuff.

I am shootin' for 20 Ga equivalent field load in the .450 cylinder bore.
Might be good for flushing quail and stomped-out wascally wabbits.

I am going to load about an ounce of 7-1/2 shot between two gas checks and use a low velocity cast-bullet powder charge to propel it.
Maybe AA-5744 and no filler,
other than a nitro card or cards if needed between the powder and the bottom of that bottom gas check.
Maybe LIL'GUN and thicker wads.
Top gas check will be the over-shot card, roll crimped.
COL will be less than 2.500" after that roll crimp.
Will be shooting it in Woodelle Whitworth, my dedicated, lovely-wooded, cast-bullet rifle, ringer of 600-yard gongs.
The .458 Win.

Rip ...

RIP, thanks for the info on the .450 B-J Express. It seems like the increase in powder capacity from the Winchester would potentially yield around 50-60 fps increase when loaded to the same COL and possibly a bit more if a marginally slower powder could then be used. I've found a source for a reamer, but can't find any dies, so it's probably not a cheap option for someone interested.

I've searched back through the thread, but can't seem to find the answer to more than two parts of this next question: Has anyone directly compared the performance (velocity/pressure) of all the following three?:

1) .458 Lott 3.6" COL, Lott throat;
2) .458 Lott 3.6" COL, rechambered from Winchester with remnant Winchester throat;
3) .458 Lott 3.6" COL, full Winchester throat newly reamed from end of neck chamfer.

I apologize if you've already answered all three somewhere...

Maybe I'll try some #5 shot. Wonder if it will hold an ounce ?

bcelliott,

Thanks for the contribtion to The Mission.

quote:

Originally posted by bcelliott:
RIP, thanks for the info on the .450 B-J Express. It seems like the increase in powder capacity from the Winchester would potentially yield around 50-60 fps increase when loaded to the same COL and possibly a bit more if a marginally slower powder could then be used. I've found a source for a reamer,

Please do tell source of .450 BJE reamer.
Can you get a reamer drawing to show and tell here?

but can't find any dies, so it's probably not a cheap option for someone interested.

No doubt sumbuddy is going to say might as well do the .458/.416 Ruger, eh?

I've searched back through the thread, but can't seem to find the answer to more than two parts of this next question: Has anyone directly compared the performance (velocity/pressure) of all the following three?:

1) .458 Lott 3.6" COL, Lott throat;

This would be the current SAAMI .458 Lott short throat of circa 2002, compared to the one and only, original SAAMI .458 Win. throat of 1956.
Prior to SAAMI "homologation" (2002) followed by CIP "homologation" to same in 2006, the only standard for the .458 Lott was for the 2.8" case with a .458 Win. throat tacked onto the end of it.
CIP old standards: 08-24-2000, revised 05-15-2002.
CIP new short-throated .458 Lott: 05-16-2006
That last one is exactly like the SAAMI standard for the .458 Lott circa 2002.


2) .458 Lott 3.6" COL, rechambered from Winchester with remnant Winchester throat;

This is exactly how Jack Lott started doing it, no later than 1977, using a hand reamer on .458 Win. rifles.
Picture of that reamer was posted earlier on this thread.
He even waffled between calling it the ".458 Long" versus ".458 Lott."
See HANDLOADER'S DIGEST TENTH EDITION (1984),
pp. 118-124. That Jack Lott write-up was entitled "The 458-Plus Arrives." Another possible alternative name for the .458 Lott/.458 Long? .458-Plus!


3) .458 Lott 3.6" COL, full Winchester throat newly reamed from end of neck chamfer.

This is how CZ was making .458 Lott rifles between 2000 and 2006, using the old CIP homologation that existed then. I have seen it, checked by slug&rod method.
I had one, it came in the Kevlar stock from factory, so not a really early one. It was marked ".458 Lott" and no X-ed out ".458 Win." indicators. I traded it off.
I kept my old .458 Win. CZ that I had a local smith re-chamber with his SAAMI .458 Lott reamer. Dropped that into a Kevlar stock.


I apologize if you've already answered all three somewhere...

1) SAAMI allowed MAP for .458 Lott is 62,500 psi, CIP allows 4300 bar = 62,350 psi
SAAMI allowed MAP for .458 Win. is 60,000 psi, CIP allows 4300 bar = 62,350 psi for the .458 Win., same as .458 Lott.
The short-throated .458 Lott maxes out at about 2250 fps with 500-grainers in a 24" barrel at 62,000 psi, with 3.6" SAAMI COL.
At lower pressure (below 60,000 psi) the .458 Win. can get the 500-grainer to 2200 fps in a 24" barrel, 3.34" SAAMI COL.

2) That is best if you want to use short bullets in a 3.6" magazine (Whitworth MkX, Winchester M70) with .458 Lott brass.
Also great for long bullets in a 3.8" magazine (CZ 550 Magnum, etc.)
I'll keep the Whitworth MkX and use 400-grain HV's loaded deep in the case for 3.54" COL.

3) You cannot make use of the longer throat of this version even in a CZ 550 Magnum except for extra pressure let-off, and thus lower velocity.
It's not supposed to help accuracy either, some would say,
but with the wondrous accuracy of the .458 Win. in 3.34" max-COL rifles,
who knows, might work wonders there too.

That reminds me, that Elmer Keith did a lot of bragging about the accuracy of his .458 Win. rifles in GUN NOTES.
Later.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
Maybe I'll try some #5 shot. Wonder if it will hold an ounce ?

CTF,

Reality has set in here.
1 ounce of 7-1/2 shot (almost 5 ml occupied volume by that shot size)
pretty nearly fills the .458 Win. case (Hornady) which has gross water capacity of 6.05 ml.

I cannot put a 20 Ga field load into the .458 Win.
But I can fit a 28 Ga field load!

A 3.7 cc Lee Dipper of 7-1/2 Magnum Shot, Lawrence brand, gives a 3/4-ounce (328.125 grains) shot load.

A 1.6 cc Lee Dipper of Blue Dot gives an 18.5-grain powder charge.

The Lyman manual data for this in the 28 Ga 2-3/4" hull shows velocity of 1180 fps (26" barrel) and pressure of 9,600 psi.

So 3.7cc + 1.6cc = 5.3cc
6.05cc - 5.3cc = 0.75cc left over to fit a Nitro card and 2 gas checks.
That will work.

Rip ...

The .458 Win. shotgun load: What Gauge?

It takes 51.2 round balls of .450 caliber of pure lead to make a pound.

The .458 Win. shot load will be called a "52 Gauge."
That sounds better than a "51 Gauge."

Remember the B-52 Bomber? Still in service since first flight on August 5, 1954.

B-52-Gauge rifle it is.

Rip ...