quote:

McCann M1 .458Win

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

McCann M1 .458Win

I know nothing!
But I bet it would make a great Jungle Carbine:

Ring a ding.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by 86thecat:
Rip,

All you seem to have are insults and playing grammar Nazi.

Hope your dementia meds kick in soon so you can think rationally.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
Using the correct Ammo in the correct weapon is on the end user. RIP has no liability for someone’s stupidity. You are barking up the wrong tree.

quote:

Originally posted by 86thecat:
My concern isn't that a cartridge is experimented with. My concern is when advanced reloading is presented to the general public as the holy grail of dangerous game cartridges, and yes some responsibility rests firmly on the brow of anyone recklessly promoting such in a public forum without proper warnings.

Jim
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne

quote:

Originally posted by 86thecat:

The bravado and arrogance here by Rip, promoting his overloaded "wildcat" as the second coming of Christ in a DG cartridge with zero concern for what may occur when his rantings are taken to heart by inexperienced, impressionable neophytes is what I have issue with. In answer to my concern that his reloads could blow up a Lott and cause injury, he reveled in the "proof" of how superior his "super wildcat" is.

quote:

Originally posted by 86thecat:
JWP,

I will say this, then am finished here.

The bravado and arrogance here by Rip, promoting his overloaded "wildcat" as the second coming of Christ in a DG cartridge with zero concern for what may occur when his rantings are taken to heart by inexperienced, impressionable neophytes is what I have issue with. In answer to my concern that his reloads could blow up a Lott and cause injury, he reveled in the "proof" of how superior his "super wildcat" is.
That did set me off a bit.

Remember when Shootaway first turned up? I am sure there are many more reading this site just as misinformed as he was and we should be careful how "off the books reloading" is presented. Luckily Shootaway has been around long enough without blowing himself up to learn and grow.

My concern isn't that a cartridge is experimented with. My concern is when advanced reloading is presented to the general public as the holy grail of dangerous game cartridges, and yes some responsibility rests firmly on the brow of anyone recklessly promoting such in a public forum without proper warnings.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Gustavo,
Thanks.
That and 3 bucks will get you a Shiner Bock beer at my favorite biker bar.
If I sent you some ammo, 86thenut would have to hand deliver it and see that it did not get into a SAAMI .458 Lott where it might cause some greater than SAAMI pressure.
Are you prepared to accept such supervision from the IHP (Internet Handloading Police)?

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Hodgdon data for BENCHMARK, pressures in CUP,
53,000 is SAAMI maximum of old, now it is 60,000 psi,
should be comparable:

quote:

Originally posted by pavementends1:
RIP
I notice some CZ Safari 458's have one ceoss bolt some have two and I looked at one today with none. Mine has one, should I consider adding one more?
Pavementends
Great job putting up with negitive comments

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

Yes, RIP, Varget looks better. Comparing that table with the ADI one, it would appear it is the same as AR2208. The charges are the same and velocities come within a couple of fps; Benchmark appears to have a similar relationship to ADI's Bench Mark 2.

I do love Varget/AR2208. It gave me best results in the 404 Jeffery with 340-gr to 400-grain bullets, top velocity with accuracy.
Benchmark is a sentimental favorite because it is a Hodgdon Extreme powder like an improved IMR-3031, first love in the .458 WIN.
But it is darn confusing to figure which of the ADI powders is Benchmark. AR-BMk2?

I wonder what the deal was with Win 748 - no starting load and a lacklustre velocity, yet the lowest max pressures in the table. Is it too bulky, despite being a ball powder?

No, it is not compressed there.
IMR/Dupont powders were not owned by Hodgdon when that table was made, possibly?
So, they were treated like redheaded stepchildren in the Hodgdon book.
No effort at an update yet?
Same treatment of Winchester powders, why encourage anyone to buy Winchester powders?

BTW, what's your opinion of the Speer 350-grain SPFN for either the 458WM or Miroku Win 86 .45-70? I bought some the other day thinking they were one of Ray Atkinson's favorites but it seems his choice is actually the Hornady 350gr.

They are about equals in the .458 WIN. Better in the .45-70.
My Speer Mag Tips have 2 cannelures, a tiny little one out in front of a standard, wider cannelure.
Seat deep in the .45-70, seat long in the .458 WIN.
I have had excellent accuracy with the Speer in a Marlin .45-70.
Not so good accuracy with the Hornady RNSP in the .458 WIN.
I would rather shoot the Speer in the 1886 at 1800 to 1900 fps.
2500 fps in the .458 WIN should be a cinch, even with ShortCOL.

quote:

Originally posted by 4sixteen:
350gr TSX at 2800 fps muzzle speed is pretty good from a 25" barrel.

Yep, thanks.

I easily get just under 2600 fps from my handy 23" barrel box-stock .458 WM in the absence of all the deek-arsen around with whatever.

If 2557 fps is your 5-yard velocity, in the 2500-2600 fps range add 16 fps to correct to MV:

2557 + 16 = 2573 fps

Add 40 to 50 fps per inch so with a 25" barrel muzzle speed would be 2700+ fps no problem. Good rifle. It's on the roster for use this Spring.

The 500-grain bullet loaded with powder burn rate like IMR3031 or Benchmark
would have a velocity change of about 15 fps per inch for the interval of 23" barrel to 25.
Greater change per inch below 23", lesser change per inch above 25".
A lighter bullet such as the 350-gr TSX will have greater MV change per inch of barrel length change,
and the faster powder required to go as fast as "just under 2600 fps" would show lesser change in MV over that 23" to 25" increase in barrel length,
having been more completely burnt in a shorter barrel than would be the slower powder.
Those two compensating factors would make for little difference versus the 500-grainer/Benchmark baseline load.
An over estimation for the 350-gr TSX load's change with barrel length
is probably more like 1% of the MV per inch between 22" and 26" barrel lengths.
1% of 2600 fps is 26 fps.
Not 40 to 50 fps per inch between 23" and 25".

So, make that 26 fps per inch X 2 inches = 52 fps.
Your 5-yard chronograph reading corrected to MV plus guesstimated from 23" to 25" barrel = 2557 + 16 + 52 = 2625 fps.

Now, what is "all the deek-arsen around with whatever"?
Does your "deek-arsin" refer to my use of hBN powder on the bullets, using a drop tube, or what whatever?
Looks like you are "deek-arsin" with the COL.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:




Backup "express sights" for Bobbarrella?
My tombstone should read "RIP."

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by pavementends1:
RIP
I notice some CZ Safari 458's have one ceoss bolt some have two and I looked at one today with none. Mine has one, should I consider adding one more?
Pavementends
Great job putting up with negitive comments

This is what Bobbarrella looked like before re-stocking and re-barreling:



She came originally with the single crossbolt behind the tang, in the wrist area.
The early Lux stocks were like that, maybe still are if you can find one nowadays, made for the European market, the "Hogback" stock.
I had gunsmith add the traditionally-located two visible crossbolts.

By golly! Here is a Lux/"Hogback" that came originally with NO CROSSBOLTS,
IIRC, it was a .300 WinMag (CZ did both Medium and Magnum actions in that caliber) and the 2 visible crossbolts were added by gunsmith:



Since CZ-USA sprouted up, they started adding on the "Phat American" style such as in the early laminate stock below, came on a .416 Rigby,
and had ZERO crossbolts:



I had gunsmith add the visible crossbolts, stainless pillars, and hidden crossbolts of allthread, and long-axial allthread in grip.
A lot of steel was added.
Seven steel inserts, "boltings and pillars" were added. The finished rifle was the first .500 Mbogo 3-Inch.

The earliest .505 Gibbs and .404 Jeffery rifles came from CZ-USA with fancy walnut Phat American stocks and no crossbolts!



I had a gunsmith add crossbolts to both of those, glass bed and pillars.
The .404 Jeffery still broke through the grip due to poor grain layout, marblecake in the grip.



CZ replaced my .404 Jeffery stock with a "Kevlar" stock, at my request.
They now call it the "Aramid" and they were asking about $450 for it when I got another one from them.
Bell & Carlson sells the same stock now for about $250.
And B&C gives you a choice of color.
That is where Bobbarrella got her stock, B&C.

Nowadays CZ USA installs the traditional 2 visible crossbolts on their safari rifle.
They were losing money replacing stocks.

Yes you need extra crossbolts if you only have one on your walnut or laminate stock.
It would be best to get the B&C stock like Bobbarrella wears.
That has a full-metal endoskeleton.
No barrel recoil lug needed, nor desirable.
Just glass bed the remnants of a CZ barrel lug into the recess in the forearm of the B&C stock,
if you have a factory barrel.
They are good barrels of .459" groove diameter, 1:14" twist, in .458 WinMag.
Chimera WinCZechster did all her excellent shooting with one of those,
early on in this thread: 500-grain TSX at 2250 fps MV and 0.19-MOA for 3 shots,
and even went up to about 2340 fps MV with no pressure signs, at 3.780" COL!

I would have left the original barrel on Bobbarrella if I had not already ruined it by re-chambering it to .458 Lott.
Never again will I ruin a CZ .458 Win.Mag. by re-chambering it to .458 Lott.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by pavementends1:
Well, now to decide on a B&C or crossbolts ... My Lux stock has real pretty wood ...

Pavementends1:

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:


After about 1 and 1/2 years of using the CZ550 in .458
Factory 25" Barrel Length
I tried six powders for comparison on the same day firing the 500gr Hornady RNSP.
All other components the same -- Win brass and WLRM primers.
All at SAAMI COL of 3.34".
The powders were fired in this sequence: WW748, H335, AA-2460, IMR 4320, Varget and IMR 4064.

WW748 gave the poorest results of only 2066 fps (instrumental).
The next slowest was IMR 4064 at 2094 fps (corrected to muzzle would have been over 2100).
Then Varget at 2144 fps,
IMR 4320 at 2151,
H335 at 2190 fps, and
AA-2460 at 2192 fps.
Add 13 fps to those for correction to MV.
No load revealed excessive PSI.

Again, all of that at 3.34" SAAMI COL, not LongCOL.
That was a twofold test:
1) To find out what the rifle would do at SAAMI using loads considered "normal", and
2) for comparison purposes.
AA-2460 had 2-grains more powder than H335.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
... I gathered up my old Whitworth, 485 FN Cast bullets over 51 grains of 2015 and my doe tag ... and ... dinner last night.
Just for the mission.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by pavementends1:
Well, now to decide on a B&C or crossbolts ... My Lux stock has real pretty wood ...

Pavementends1:

Bro',
You ought to do both, first one and then the other.
Slap a B&C on her for everyday use while the gunsmith is reinforcing the pretty walnut.
A drop-in fit of the B&C usually gives good accuracy with a factory CZ 550 Magnum.
Simple glass bedding of the primary recoil lug is about all you can do to the B&C to possibly improve accuracy.
Save the walnut for Sunday-go-to-meeting use.
Can I hear an "amen?"

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
I have been searching the news for any blown up 458 Lotts or unexplained explosions

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:


After about 1 and 1/2 years of using the CZ550 in .458
Factory 25" Barrel Length
I tried six powders for comparison on the same day firing the 500gr Hornady RNSP.
All other components the same -- Win brass and WLRM primers.
All at SAAMI COL of 3.34".
The powders were fired in this sequence: WW748, H335, AA-2460, IMR 4320, Varget and IMR 4064.

WW748 gave the poorest results of only 2066 fps (instrumental).
The next slowest was IMR 4064 at 2094 fps (corrected to muzzle would have been over 2100).
Then Varget at 2144 fps,
IMR 4320 at 2151,
H335 at 2190 fps, and
AA-2460 at 2192 fps.
Add 13 fps to those for correction to MV.
No load revealed excessive PSI.

Again, all of that at 3.34" SAAMI COL, not LongCOL.
That was a twofold test:
1) To find out what the rifle would do at SAAMI using loads considered "normal", and
2) for comparison purposes.
AA-2460 had 2-grains more powder than H335.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Great reference material for THE MISSION, thanks to Bob.
The only other detail that might add to the immense value of that is what was the ambient temperature for the testing?

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
Forgive my ignorance, 458 Only, but I'm wondering what your different powder weights were and how you decided they were 'normal'.

Bob's post is an overview of powders.
I am sure he omitted details so as not to obscure the forest with the trees.
He is always quite helpful with specifics when needed.
Take a gander at the summary tabulation above, excerpt for book review purposes, excellent book:

Perhaps because of the long barrel, your W748 exceeds the velocity shown in RIP's Hodgdon table, however, the single 73-grain load shown there is one grain below the starting one in my 1987 Hornady 3rd Edition. Their loads actually went up to 80.6 grains, for a supposed 2150fps, with an even shorter OAL of 3.310"! Is that by any chance where the powder-clumping claims started?