The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 458 winchester magnumGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| one of us |
That is what I am hoping to see from the 450-grain TSX with 83 grains of AA-2230: +2400 fps. The New Holy Grail will be 450-grain TSX at +2400 fps. For THE MISSION.  I bought a dead man's .458 paraphernalia collection at a Hoosier gunshow last year, compliments of a friend of the widow. Got a few boxes of old original X-bullets of 400-grain weight. Maybe hBN would make them behave more like the GSC HV 400-grainer: +2500 fps.  | |||
|
| one of us |
The box says there are supposed to be instructions inside. This is all there was:  Oh, yeah, there was a packing slip marked "PAID" inside the box too. An empty plastic bottle, a smaller plastic container with 150 grains (surely not grams!) of hBN powder, a 1/4 teaspoon scoop, and a beautiful, dyed-blue, miniature popsicle stick! For $46.95 plus $17.77 SHIPPING AND HANDLING ... still not enough handling to include the 2-page instruction sheet that David Tubb waved about on his Youtube video. Never fear, plenty of instructions on the internet. I think Tubb is marking up the hBN powder about 500%. But hey, it is his proprietary blend that he as worked with for over 10 years to perfect. Right ... I am also ordering the industrial "white graphite" powder of less than 5 micron size by the 1 or 2-pound lot. One order for a lifetime supply. Rip ... | |||
|
| one of us |
I just opened up a new box of 350-grain TSX bullets. They looked clean, I did not touch them with contaminating fingers. I did use nitrile gloves for any handling of the bullets before they were tumbled in the powder, and while I was cleaning them up with microfiber shop towels and unclogging the hollowpoints with a little handheld drill bit, after the tumbling. I placed about 750 copper-plated steel BBs in the plastic tumbler bottle and a double-charge of powder for coating the BBs along with the first 20 bullets. I used a vibratory case tumbler half full of corn cob media. The little plastic bottle spun slowly around its long axis and buzzed like a busy bee in the tub of media, for 3 hours. The bullets are slippery to nitrile gloved fingers:  I skipped the washing in Blue Dawn and tap water rinse, and the heating in the oven at 180*F for 10 minutes to dry them. I might do that next time. Warm bullets are supposed to help with the pollination process. Rip ... | |||
|
| one of us |
Richard at SharpShooting UK estimates the hBN will reduce the pressure of a load by about 5%, and the velocity by about 3%. About a 2% increase in powder charge, he estimates, will get the pressure back up to normal, and possibly get the velocity faster than with an untreated bullet. He also claims that copper and carbon fouling are greatly reduced, and barrel life extended. The main advantage, according to David Tubb, is that the cold-bore, first shot will print to same POI as subsequent shots. First-shot, cold-bore velocity is same as subsequent shots. I'll load the hBN coated 350-gr TSX with WLRM primer, Hornady brass, and H4198 to compare to Bob's results, making allowance for the complication of hBN. I got a feeling that Bobbarrella's 25" Shilen barrel is a fast one, might make up for any slowing by the hBN, or it might require a bit more H4198 than 80 grains. Drop tube and compression if needed. The Mike Fairbanks data above for SAAMI .458 WM suggests AA-2230 is marginally faster than H4198 for MV with 350-grain TSX, possibly more accurate too. H4198 is more clearly best with 300-grain TTSX. I think that for the .458 WIN LongCOL H4198 is the bees knees for 300-grain and 350-grain bullets loaded long as possible. I think AA-2230 surely takes the cake with 400 to 500-grain bullets in the .458 WIN LongCOL. That means 450-grainers are included, and I do believe AA-2230 has great ThermoBallisticIndependence also, like H4198 Extreme. Page 102 coming up, for THE MISSION. Rip ... | |||
|
| One of Us |
RIP; I shot a box (minus 2) of the 300gr TSX's from my #1 Ruger .45-70 LT, using H4198. 68 grs was all I could use and add a crimp in the bottom cannelure. I'd tried 70 grs but couldn't manage the crimp I wanted. That load (68 grs) was used for a bear hunt during one Fall season a half-dozen years ago. Never had a chance on the bear I wanted to shoot, but I was confident it would kill any bear at 2650 fps (avg) from the 22" Ruger. I never tried any of those in my CZ550. Still have a couple left over so will give them a try in the .458. I did shoot one into a box of dry books and magazines using the hunting load from about ten feet. Impact velocity would have been around 2600 fps/4500 ft-lbs. That was in December with about 8 - 10 inches of snow on the ground in my hunting area. It penetrated very well (dry books and glossy magazines packed tightly are about as hard as bone), pushed the remaining magazines out the back of the box, that was busted, and slid the box with its contents about a foot through the snow. The magazines were scattered across several feet out the back of the box. The bullet retained 100% of un-fired weight and looks like an ad from Barnes! I have a pic of it on file and in at least one of my former blogs. Regarding the thermo-ballistic characteristics of H335 -- I've found it very stable and consistent under extreme conditions. If you've not done so, read Hornady's intro to both the .458 Win AND Lott re: that propellant. No doubt, as good as it is, AA-2230 might prove itself to me as slightly better -- that will happen, God willing, in the Spring. Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
|
| one of us |
When I lived in northern MN I did a test with several powders vs Hodgdon's Extreme line. H335 was horrible in terms of velocity drop in colder temperatures - IIRC it was about 150 fps between 70 deg and -20. In general, spherical powders are not known for their temperature stability. I don't shoot in cold temps anymore, but I do chrono (via LabRadar) every shot I take during my long range shooting sessions. I shoot mostly Retumbo and H1000 and have noticed the increase in velocity due to a dirty barrel, different bullet lot, etc, causes more of a velocity deviation than temperature (110 vs 50 for example). My long range loads have single digit SDs, so when the velocity jumps by 20 fps consistently, something has changed. When that increase occurs at 50 deg (vs 110) you can't blame the temperature. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Another AZWriter; I can't speak for your experience, of course, but I can speak from mine, which is as I've described it. Evidently, Hornady ballistic engineers have found the same/similar results as mine IN THE .458 WIN MAG. Also recommended by HODGDON. My results were from BOTH .45-70s and a .458 WM, NOT small or medium bores. By phone, I've discussed H335, and its composition, with one of Hodgdon's ballistic engineers. H335 today isn't the "old" version. Nor is it the same as WW748, which is slower in burn rate, though made in the same plant in Florida. Gun propellants, no matter who manufactures them, are frequently being "fine-tuned", or re-manufactured with slight changes for improvement under ambient conditions -- surely you know that. Check old manuals which give data for H335, when applied for ballistics in a .458 WM, with the latest manuals. The difference in results reveals it is NOT the same powder as previously. It is very close to TAC in performance in the .458 WM -- see BARNES#4. Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
|
One of Us |
RIP; I don't use the BBs. Never have. It uses up too much HBN powder. I use a Dual Drum Harbor Freight rotary rock polisher. With 1 pint canning jars . 1/8 teaspoon of HBN powder. Tumble for an hour or hour an a half. Having the cold bore shot being inside the group is a really great thing. The barrel does stay a LOT cooler. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hey RIP; I don't use bbs just 1/8 teaspoon of HBN powder in a pint Ball canning jar with 100, 6.5 bullets or 50 , 338- 375 bullets or 50 , 416 bullets . and around 30, 458 bullets. With clean bullets the powder sticks very well. It is a little bit of a pain to clean the hbn powder out of hollow point bullets. I use a Harbor Freight Dual Drum . Rotary Rock Polisher. Its quieter than my Lyman or FF Arsenal vibratory tumbler. I used to tumble only in an empty drum with my Frankfort Arsenal tumbler. Real LOUD !! Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
|
| one of us |
CTF, My BB's are coated now, so I will keep using them. I think it worked as well as anything I have seen pictured on the net. Some use ceramic beads. Tubb's video recommended using 1/4 teaspoonful of powder for 100 of the .30-cal bullets, IIRC, and no beads, as you say, and only about an hour of tumbling, or less. Where do you get your "white graphite?" Tubb's TBN is for beginners. David Tubb says: (borrowed from GrampaHubel's "Fun" thread)  One web source has 2 pounds of sub-5 micron hBN powder for $74. Can you beat that? There is an industrial hBN spray, Combat (R) brand, that Richard at SharpShooting UK was suggesting he might try on 22 RF ammo, which cannot be tumbled in powder. Yes, that sounds pretty silly. Better use of the spray would be for patching through your barrel to treat your bore before shooting hBN-coated bullets. 1 level teaspoonful in 16 ounces of +90% isopropyl alcohol is also recommended on the web for swabbing your bore. Every bullet here is a 450-grainer except for one 500-gr FMJ and one 500-gr Olde-X-Bullet, and the hBN could be used on all of them:  I will hBN some 450-grain TSX bullets too, and shoot both 350-grain TSX and 450-grain TSX with hBN next time out. Yikes! I just remembered Bobbarrella's throat is shorter than Chimera WinCZechster's throat. Go-gage dummies above are for Chimera. Bobbarrella's custom-chambered Shilen barrel does not have the factory slop in the throat of the WinCZechster's CZ barrel. 3.680" might be as long as I can load the TSX 450-grainers and 500-grainers in Bobbarrella. Oh, well, still beats a SAAMI .458 Lott. However, the Olde-X-Bullets, slick-sided with no cannelures, have longer, sleeker, tangent ogives. They can be loaded longer than the blunter-nosed, secant-ogived TSX bullets. Ye Olde-X-Bullets will get a homemade cannelure, Lee Factory Crimp, hBN, and can be loaded longer than the TSX, as Bob demonstrated. Rip ... | |||
|
| One of Us |
The guy I got my kit from threw in a couple oz volume in a baggy. When I first started I used 1/4 teaspoon. After a few hundred bullets I tried 1/8 teaspoon . But increased the tumble time a bit. I got just as good of coverage on the bullets. But less waste powder in the canning jars when I opened them up. I also pour the bullets into a cotton tube sock and slinky them back and forth several times to clean the powdered doughnut look off them. When I broke in the barrel on my Kimber Montana 338 Winchester. I used Rem 250 gr factory ammo . and did several good scrubbings. Then I started shooting HBN tumbled hand loads. My hope is that my bore is all shined up and lasting for the rest of my life. I did similar with my 375 Ruger Guide Gun. I haven't shot them enough to fully break in the barrels yet. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
|
| one of us |
Slinky-ing in a cotton tube sock for wiping the excess off a whole batch at once ... that is the first good use for a tube sock I ever heard of! Rip ... | |||
|
| one of us |
False alarm. All my old feed dummies that worked in Chimera WinCZechster work just as well in Alderella Shilen-Ruger and Bobbarrella Shilen-Czech. Yes, the SAAMI minimum throat will do all that and still shoot sub-MOA with many loads, whether short or long loaded. What a WINner!  Yes, a SAAMI minimum throat on a .458 Winchester Magnum will handle all of these. The only trick is getting them into a rifle with long enough magazine box. If you are stuck with a 3.4"-long box, then just fill the box with whatever fits, and shoot the others single-shot style, any of them. But if you want to be able to eject the unfired, loaded, LongCOL round from the chamber, by normal working of the action, keeping the COL to no more than 3.540" will generally allow this. You can still fire a 3.800" load in your 3.4" action, but if you chamber the long one and don't fire it, then you have to stick out your tongue from the left side of your mouth just right, while getting the LongCOL cartridge out of the rifle. Rip ... | |||
|
| one of us |
If a shorter COL 600-grainer feeds better from your CZ 550 Magnum, here is how you do it:  Rip ... | |||
|
| one of us |
 | |||
|
| one of us |
 | |||
|
| one of us |
 | |||
|
| one of us |
When I was but a grasshopper, I thought the .458/400-grainer at +2400 fps was the unobtainable goal for the .458 Winchester Magnum. Now I know that with the .458 WIN LongCOL, the 450-grainer at +2400 fps is a reality. Heck! This 450-grainer did 2411 fps MV when fired like so: North Fork old Ogived Flat Point .458/450-grain copper monometal solid: 24-7/8" CZ barrel set back and rechambered on a Pre-'64 Winchester M70 58*F COL: 3.485" Brass: Hornady trimmed to 2.490" Bullet Length: 1.320" Therefore seating depth = 0.325" Primer: GM215M Powder Charge: AA-2230 81.0 grains 5-yard chronograph velocity = 2399 fps. Assume BC is similar to that of .458/450-gr Barnes Banded Solid, also an ogived flat point. BC = 0.362 Correction from 5-yards to MV: Add 12 fps. If the BC is less than 0.362, the correction would be greater, MV would be higher. MV = 2411 fps. MV is certainly greater than 2400 fps, with no signs of excessive pressure. Rip ... | |||
|
| one of us |
The only real argument against beating the .458 Lott with a .458 WIN LongCOL has been the complaint of not enough bullet in the case. That is just NAYSAYER whining. The .458 WIN is for winners not whiners! An example load: 450-grain TSX bullet length is 1.515" for the one I just measured. Let the .458 WIN LongCOL brass grow to 2.500" max length and keep it there. COL = 3.680", Lee Factory Crimped on the 4th and last cannelure. Nose projection = 1.180" Seating depth = 0.335" Seat it on a 100% full case of AA-2230. That bullet ain't going anywhere until it is fired. I rest my case. Rip ... | |||
|
One of Us |
I'm afraid that I consider this to be other than unbiased data. The 18-20 Leupolds that Michael458 McCourry sent back for warranty repair suggest that the Leupold tests did/do not go far enough. At least for big bore shooting. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
|
| one of us |
That was 1999. When one reads critically he must note the date of the writing. Critique: Nikon has possibly improved since 1999. Or, Leupold was just plumb biased and home cooked the tests, and it was just FAKE NEWS. Rip ... | |||
|
| One of Us |
"Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
|
| One of Us |
There are a couple of things I don't understand about this forum: 1) Whenever I want to change or correct something, I use the eraser. But when the corrected post appears is says "Originally posted by .458 Only", as a QUOTE! That doesn't make any sense to me! 2) The time of my post is OFF by a factor of 10! I haven't a clue as to how that happened! Instead of 21:36 (example), it should be 11:36. Thanks moderator... Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
|
| One of Us |
I use the back button on my phone's keyboard when I want to erase something. I used to do the same when I had a laptop and the same on the rare occasion I use a desk top. As to the times. Only the Alaska Outdoors forum gets my time of posting correct. That's because they are in Alaska where I am. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
|
| one of us |
Bob, That is weird. By "eraser" you mean the edit function (represented by a little folder & pencil eraser icon) right next to the quote function at the bottom of your reply? Whatever went haywire, you can go back into your reply after it has been posted by using that edit function again, and remove the offending brackets and letters "["QUOTE"]", hopefully getting an edit instead of a quote. Formerly, time of day on the replies here used to be on GMT or Dubai Time or EST or some other time zone than my own, but that bug seems to have been worked out, and surely must depend on the member's own 'puter somehow, to give him the right local time on his replies. Restart, reboot your 'puter and modem and see if the whackiness clears up? This is the blind leading the blind, of course. I am 'puter illiterate. Anyway, your comments on pressure indications from casehead expansion are profound. I am counting on that to be reality. Rip ... | |||
|
| one of us |
http://sandblastingabrasives.c...-order-page-781.html HBN: Use this page to order Hexagonal Boron Nitride powder. You may choose from a variety of sizes: -5, -8, or -10 micron, our largest particle size of 6-7 micron, as well as a very fine 0.5 to 1.0 micron powder. Lead Time: 1-3 business days plus transit time. What is Hexagonal Boron Nitride Powder? This product has structure and properties similar to graphite. Hexagonal boron nitride powder is one of the most popular dry lubricants available today, due mostly to its lubricant properties and its inertness to molten metals and salts. It is therefore often used as a mold release agent. HBN (White Graphite) also has high thermal conductivity. This means it will act as a heat sink, helping to keep parts cooler. It will also improve the strength and hold ability of powder composites, and has high load bearing properties. We generally sell Hexagonal Boron Nitride as a dry powder, but upon request, we can provide it as either a thick paint or thin paste (spray able), convenient for use with tooling and stamping machined parts. For those of you mixing your own formulation, note that HBN is always measured by weight, not volume. Therefore, a 12% HBN by weight is ~1 lb of HBN per gallon of water." Sizing Nomenclature: A -5 (Negative Five) micron material will have the majority of its particles smaller than 5 micron, generally having a D50 of 2-3 micron. Think of D50 as an average, although technically, the D50 is considered to be the average particle diameter by mass. (D50 = Mass-median-diameter (MMD)). In the same way, a -10 (Negative Ten) micron material will have the majority of its particles smaller than 10 micron, generally having a D50 of 4-7 micron. These powders are not "graded" powders, which means that the D50 will vary somewhat from lot to lot. If you have specifications of sizing which must be met, be sure to communicate that to us. Premium (Cosmetic) Grade is typically used in the cosmetics industry and has the same general chemistry as Standard Grade (although it does have a slightly higher purity of 99.6% vs 99% for Standard Grade). It is just put through an additional cleaning process to remove any element (very small percentage) of dark particles. It is hygroscopic in nature and must be handled accordingly. Cosmetic grade HBN is only available in the -10 micron size. Handling Warning: This material is so fine it is hygroscopic. Thus the particle size will increase due to "attraction" or "clumping" of the particles together, once exposed to air and humidity. Make sure you use the material immediately after opening, package it tightly, and store it in a temperature and humidity controlled environment. Once it begins conglomerating, it will be difficult for you to "unstick" the particles. Therefore, make sure you handle this material appropriately. We can package it in a variety of ways to help you with your particular application. This material is processed in a diamond laboratory, where the temperature and humidity are controlled. Make sure you take steps to preserve the quality of this powder once you open your package. Second, since HBN is extremely fine, fluffy material, it can cause respiratory tract infections. So try to minimize inhalation. (No specific intervention is indicated as the compound is not likely to be hazardous by inhalation. However, if symptoms occur, consult a physician.) Application Examples: Mold and die release agent Engine Oil Additive. For This Item, Choose the 0.5 to 1.0 micron material Insulator Dry lubricant Hot pressed goods such as shapes and composites with high thermal conductivity High electrical resistively and machinability. Ceramic Additive Cosmetics & Makeup (Order the Cosmetic Grade -10 micron) Composites and high tech matrixes Heat sink, thermal transfer Mold Release Agent Molding into crucibles Paints and Coatings Bullet Coatings (Dry Lubricant used in a vibratory tumbler, order the -5 micron) Gun Barrel Coating (Reduces Friction, dissipates heat, may extend life of barrel. Order the -5 or -10 micron Coatings In General: The HBN powder will work at ~1350 degrees C (2462 F) as a max temperature. In most cases, a -10 powder will be more stable at high temperatures, and mixes much better into a coating than other sizes. Shipping Information: -1 or 2 lb orders will generally ship in 24 hours, packaged in a plastic container. Other quanties will have a 3 day lead time. Specifications: Surface Area: 7.4 m2/g Nickname: White Graphite Tap Density 0.45 Grades Available: Standard and Cosmetic Grade Physical Data: Similar to Graphite Thermal Conductivity160 - 200 W/mk: High: HBN powder will work at ~1350 degrees C as a max temperature. Thermal conductivity is measured as Watts per Meter- K. Typical Packaging: 10 kg bags (22 lbs), then four bags stacked inside a fiber drum (88 lbs per drum) 1 Pound Packaging: 1 lb per plastic bag. (Plastic Jars are used only for -5 micron size) Color: White in its dry state Purity: 99.0% (Standard Grade); 99.6% (Premium or Cosmetic Grade) Structure: Hexagonal Bulk Density: 0.4 g/cc3 Flash Point: Will not burn. Fire & Explosion Hazards: None Pricing is based per pound, 1 lb is the minimum order Need A Custom Quote? | |||
|
| One of Us |
I don't know how "profound" it might be, but, as said, I've used it for most of my handloading years. It doesn't stand alone, however, nor does it tell actual PSI, of course. But along with other indications in a comparative manner, I find it helpful, especially when compared to a KNOWN max load in the same cartridges fired from the same rifle. And, obviously, it must be from the same lot of brass. But as the SPEER manual has suggested for many years, don't use the initial firing of new brass to measure its "deflection" as that will be greater than any subsequent firings. And, we must use a micrometer in 1/10,000" (or equivalent in MMs). John Barsness has "poo-pooed" that as a method for determining safe pressure, though he has confessed to using it for some time before he had access to a pro-lab. However, as we all know, different lots of brass for the same cartridge, especially from a different source, may be softer or harder. I've used both Remington and Winchester cases for my .458s, and found them about equal in that regard, though the Remington was slightly heavier (and I still have a bunch of those that will see some action down the road). In .45-70, I found the Remington nickle-plated to be much "stronger" than anything else -- including Federal nickle-plated. They endured some very high pressures (over 60,000 psi) and never-ever gave a loose primer pocket despite ten firings. At that point I discarded them on principle due to work hardening. BTW, QuickLoad has been known to give false readings for large-bore, straight-wall cases. Thanks to RIP, I believe he has found a way to correct that. And, of course, QuickLoad can't take into account other variables such as case hardness, powder lots or primers used. All of those are variables, including the rifle bore or ambient conditions. Bob Hagel complained that Weatherby brass was too soft (made by Norma), so he often used something else fire-formed. In my .340 Wby, I used fire-formed .375 H&H brass from Remington. Never-ever was there a loose primer pocket despite elevated psi in the range of 65,000. I only have used Hornady brass in my 9.3 x 62. According to QuickLoad (thanks to Elliotte who has posted on this thread), my hottest loads are running up to about 64,000 psi. No problems. I use the 338 WM as my benchmark for that. Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
|
| one of us |
I have been slowed down a bit by death of 98-year-old WWII Veteran Father-In-Law, Joe.  Health issues of both my Mother-In-Law and my Mother simultaneously are complicating life as we know it. I have inherited a 14-year-old Miniature Pinscher, Joe's dog, who is as precious as a dog can be. But THE MISSION must go on, and we wish you all a HAPPY NEW YEAR. Bob, Below, I have quoted you by the "quote function" and then simply back-spaced/erased/cut the EXTRANEOUS "quote of quote" stuff, however that happened:
Having shot the 450-grain North Fork (monometal copper, no hBN) at over 2400 fps MV (with 81.0 grains of AA-2230, GM215M primer, in a 24-7/8" CZ barrel, at 58*F, 3.485" COL) and since H335 is so similar to AA-2230, I think it is likely indeed that you will exceed 2400 fps as you propose with your components and rifle. I'll do the hBN-ed 450-grain TSX with AA-2230 as propellant, very similar to your H335. Since the 500-grain TSX with no hBN treatment handled 83.0 grains of AA-2230 so well (no pressure signs, 2342 fps MV, GM215M primer, 24-7/8" barrel, 46*F, 3.785" COL) I am going to stick with the GM215M (or same-same F215) primer when using AA-2230. No hotter primer needed there, and besides, I am superstitious.  I will switch to WLRM for the H4198 propellant, like you use, since the 350-grain TSX offers so little resistance to being pushed out of the barrel. Even more so after hBN powder treatment! A hotter primer like the WLRM may be needed for better ignition with the light and slippery bullet, if I am ever to get anywhere near a maximum pressure load. Rip ... | |||
|
| one of us |
 | |||
|
| one of us |
 If this is not the perfect bullet for the .458 WIN LongCOL, then it is a good model for improvement to supersonic instead of subsonic use. Give it a slightly pointier nose with smaller, hexagonal hollow point and thicker petals, without the through-cuts on the nose. Skiving in the corners of the hexagonal hollow point, to encourage "hexspansion" is probably not needed. The angular corners of such a hollow point are pressure risers yielding the "hexplosion" on impact.   The old S&H .395cal-310gr "Shark Velopex Hexploder" (six petals) worked great, took all plains game in Tanzania 2010 with that bullet in the .395 Tatanka. There was also a .395/330-gr S&H FN Brass Solid, and a .395/325-gr "SHarlow" Brass Ripper. All of the trio were shot at about 2800 fps MV. S&H was doing these for me as early as 2006. That was before CEB copied the S&H success.  But before S&H there was Lehigh. And I see the sameness of S&H QUALITY in the Lehigh stuff. Hmm ... Rip ... | |||
|
| one of us |
The Lehigh 465-grain Supersonic Subsonic is a dazzling concept (brilliant?), or a baffling one (BS?). Some 450-grain TSX bullets were treated differently for my second run of 20 bullets in the hBN powder tumbler, hBN-ed #2, versus the first run of 350-grain TSX, hBN-ed #1. Compare below, beside a shiny, untreated 500-grain TSX:  | |||
|
| one of us |
 | |||
|
| one of us |
 No touch bullets with bare fingers, use gloves, until after tumbling and final cleanup. The 350-grainer was tumbled for 3 hours with steel BBs and probably twice the amount of hBN powder necessary, no washing or heating to dry the bullets. New unopened box was dumped into tumbler. The 450-grainer was washed in hot tap water and Blue Dawn then thoroughly rinsed in tap water, and heated in oven at 180*F for 10 minutes to dry. Then tumbled for only 1 hour and 15 minutes. What happened? 350-gr hBN-en #1: The copper-coated, steel BBs beat more pits in the copper bullets, and beat more powder into the pits, more visible powder deposits adherent. This after repeated wiping and slinkying in a cotton tube sock. 450-gr TSX hBN-ed #2: The washing and heating to dry may have caused a color change in the shiny new bullets. They were then tumbled in 1/4 teasp of hBN powder (TBN) for 20 of these big bullets, for 1.25 hours, no BBs. The hBN coating must be mostly microscopic, invisible to the naked eye. Voodoo? There was more visible powder on the bullets before I used the Cold Trigger Finger method of post-tumble cleanup: Slinky action in cotton tube sock. That works well, quick and easy. The treated 450-grainer actually looks smoother though duller than the untreated 500-grainer. Probably adequate for hBN treatment, though little visible powder on the bullets. I have had such great success with the untreated 500-gr TSX that I hesitate to hBN that one. The juju is already good with that one. Rip ... | |||
|
| one of us |
Appearing in The GUN DIGEST, 1959, is an article by John Maynard, "Practical Pressures" pp.59-64, excerpted for book review purposes: Excellent book. Shown is a very early Winchester M70 African (one visible crossbolt) chronographed by unknown genius engineer responsible for the cartridge design, not the initial African model rifle design:  We'll just have to call him Dr. Elmer Winchester Fudd, PhD in Gunnacology. Bean counters soon relented and allowed a second crossbolt in the second year of production, saving Winchester on stock replacement costs. Rip ... | |||
|
| one of us |
The GUN DIGEST 1961, excerpts for book review purposes, article called "World's Most Powerful Rifle!" by Jac Weller, pp. 130-134. Book Review: A very amusing article about how a good ol'boy had a 14.1-pound, 4x scope-sighted, 460 Weatherby Magnum rifle built by Roy Weatherby with a straight cylinder barrel contour, from action to 26" muzzle: 1.125" diameter. Author and his homies got together and shot at 100-yard targets, including paper, steel silhouette, running deer target, and a pop-up bear target that showed for 3 seconds for the shot at 100 yards. They also tried the .458 WIN bolt action (8.8#), a Rigby 470 NE DR (11.0#), and an Evans 8-bore DR (16.5#). Our hero author says he fired more than 100 rounds of 460 Wby ammo before the scope bit him "I became careless and opened my eyebrow almost to the bone." He admitted to much firing prone with the 460 WBY, and discussed a reduced load for it that was better for prone fire, a 500-grainer at about 1700 fps with 110 grains of 50 BMG powder. Some of his buddies refused to fire the 460 Wby prone with factory ammo. I suspect this is where the colloquialism "Weatherby eyebrow" originated.   Looks like we have an overall WINner in the lively .458 WIN. To add insult to injury of our hero by the 460 Wby, this circa 1960 lark showed tests done at the Kenvil, NJ plant of the Hercules Powder Company. The 460 Wby did not make it's claimed 2700 fps, it did 2640 fps with 500-grainer. The .458 WIN did the claimed 2125 fps with 500-grainer, and inflicted no Weatherby eyebrows.  Rip ... | |||
|
One of Us |
2600 fps muzzle speed with the 300gr TSX from my 22" barrel .45-70 Ruger No.1-S LT (=Long-Throated). Chamber pressure is on the high side but no apparent excessive pressure signs. Real good shock at about 2300 fps impact speed on big Bull Elk but doesn't exit broadside. Might use 400gr Barnes Busters (0.242 b.c.) this Spring on big Bear in my .458 Lott at about 2400 fps for straight-through penetration out to intermediate range instead of 300gr TSX (0.234 b.c.) at 2600 fps. The ghost shoulder should hold the Busters in the rounds in the magazine in place under recoil as it does for 300gr TSX.   | |||
|
| one of us |
4sixteen, Thank you for ringing THE MISSION bell. That is no ghost shoulder. It is a wasp waist, artifact of handloading technique. The .458 Lott is just a straight-taper case same as the .458 WIN. Either can be loaded with wasp waist, but that ain't pretty. A ghost shoulder is designed into the chamber reamer of a cartridge which has one, such as the .470 Capstick. The chamber tapers down to a "neck-1" location, and beyond that it is parallel-sided to chamber's end. That is a ghost shoulder. A wasp waist is ineffective at keeping the bullet from going deeper into the case due to recoil battering. A 100% full case of ball powder or 104% of extruded/stick powder is more effective (see below), not to mention a good crimp with the Lee Factory crimp die and a nice deep/square-sided cannelure as found on the Barnes TSX bullets. Rip ... | |||
|
| one of us |
 | |||
|
| one of us |
 The bad news is that I did not get to shoot these loads in 2018, and have to wait until 2019 to do it. The good news is that 2019 begins in an hour and five minutes for me. HAPPY NEW YEAR to the .458 WIN and all y'all. Rip ... | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ghost shoulder seems to be what it continues to be referred to as on the .458 Lott case in the popular press and has stuck when describing this round. This slight case indentation they call a ghost shoulder resulting from taper removal for a short distance downward from the case mouth for more uniform bullet grip as shown holds the 300gr TSX in my ~95% load density rounds in my magazine in place under recoil without a crimp. Works for me. Bonus. Your results may vary.  | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 ... 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 ... 235 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 458 winchester magnum
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia