Good grief, it goes right back to that old statement "whatever floats your boat.

If Mr. Wieland doesn't care to shoot the really big bores, fine, but don't bitch because someone else likes them!

Last I checked the buffalo that CCMDoc and his father shot with heir "big bad monster rifles" were still dead.

This is exactly the kind of language that the anti's use to describe the .50 BMG and other such weapons that ordinary citizens "don't need", and I really don't think it helps our cause at all.

Whatever- I still have two legs and actually like to walk around toten guns. Gee them heavy 12lbers really require Sooo much athletic ability too! A nice stroll followed by some competative shootin would be fun! I think ol Terry and I are about the same age, so no unfair advantage.
I deeply suspect Terry doesnt really know how to shoot a gun bigger than a .500NE and has developed an opinion similar to many others here who also REALLY dont know how either. BTW a light .500NE can kick harder than a .600NE in a better designed gun! Duh! Sorry dudes but if you all take a few lessons, you too could shoot a woppingly powerful .600 NE at an astonishing 1950fps with a 900 gr bullet. The logic of "if I cant do it no one else can" is soooo compelling to those who just pretend. As I said, lets see if ol Terry is willing to put his money where his mouth is!-Rob

I got a better idea, Robgunbuilder. How about you do a few of the Charge and Shoot videos that made Buzz famous. Show us laymen how to do it. Big boy!

Buzz or Bullwinkel?-Rob

That's weak!
I pray that our heavenly father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost and the solemn pride that must be yours to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the alter of freedom.
Abe Lincoln

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:


"look at the picture again. My head is on the stock, and I am looking downrange. If you'd been there you would have seen me maintain control of the rifle, and work the bolt and fire another shot."

Riiight. OK.

"The rifle has been to Africa, which is more than you can say I believe."

Wrong, you might check the hunt reports.

"Were you maybe one of those guys I used to whup up on at HBR in Oregon and Washington back in the day?"

Nope, I shot and still shoot the varmint classes. I especially like the money shoots!

OK... Look closely at this picture...

The rifle has KICKED COMPLETELY out of his front hand... COMPLETELY out of his rear hand and is "floating" in recoil.

Maybe he has shot the rifle enough to "catch" it before it hits the ground...

The problem with hunting with a hard kicker is that you cannot always "get ready" for the recoil.

You might be shooting from an awkard position, in a hurry, shooting on slippery uneven ground, etc.


I have shot several cape buff and several elephant. Many elephant at 6 yards or less...

I have shot several 50 bore DG rifles, both bolt and doubles. I have shot 500 Grains 500 Nitro Hambrusch [great double] on 3 different occasions. I have never shot a right and a left whether from 7 yards, 12 yards or 25 yards, that the shots did not touch, yet I "feel" that the recoil is too much for a rapid follow up, for me when shooting elephants at point blank range, on slippery, uneven ground....

However, I can shoot my 450 No2 like a 22LR...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
What did Dirty Harry say: "it's a wise man that knows his own limitations..."? Now we know what Wieland's are.

I own a 505 Gibbs, and my wildcat 550 and 577 on the Gibbs case, and I have shot the 600OK and 600&700 AHR hammers. And in September, a 700 H&H and the ex-Safari Kid Owens four bore doubles. All are controllable if you are up to putting in the practice with them.

The good news is, nobody died and left mr Wieland in charge of regulating Dangerous Game Hunting rifle calibers for the rest of us. At least, I haven't received written notification as of this date.

I'll just buy what taste and pocketbook determine, and put junior on "Disregard". I didn't check with him before buying my jag convertible, or anything else I've purchased. Too late to start now.

Rich

I guess that pretty much say's it all doesn't it!
Thanks Rich

Oh, by the way i've shot that rifle without any problem. And by the way Rich, our little buddy Cody says he wants to shoot it somemore. He's put on a few pounds now, he just turned 16 and is even more bullet proof. Hope too see you and your shooters in june.

A handful of people including me shot the "Whomper" loads as pictured without issue and a big smile after.

Someone please post the pic of the fireball those loads made

Who cares what this wanker thinks ,because he cant handle a big bore, his ego might be hurt if somebody else CAN , because it might make him feel inadequate or inferior,and the saying'' if you cant carry a heavy gun you have no business using it'' is also bullshit .Its the same as people who dont want you to have a better car than them ,or a bigger house or better looking woman than they have, its complete bloody crap .Like the 375 H and H crowd is the perfect example ,who if they were politicians would ban every gun larger than 375 .Some people come up with alot of bigoted stupid ''unwritten laws '' which they expect everyone else to live by ,its a crock of crap

Ol Bull,

Wayne and I will be there with our dancing shoes on come June! For me, it is almost as much fun as the Quigley Rifle Match the following week. I'm no threat to win, but nobody has more fun than my brother (who comes out from St Louis) and I do. I will have a new toy to show off, if you have been following the MRC thread my first (of two) actions is at Wayne's shop and has a barrel on it. It goes to his stockist in the morning for patterning. He figures I can make the trip around St Patrick's Day to test fire it. We will start with the FL barrel and chronograph and cut in two inch increments and actually know what barrel length Vs velocity is.

Rich

I discussed it with a couple of friends and we all found that 14EE shoes are way too big for any of us. "Frankly, I do not believe anyone can really walk in shoes that big" One of them told me, and I agree. Regardless what anyone claims, they are impossible to actually use in a normal day.

Just because you're in the extreme minority dosen't mean you don't exist.

I read Terrys new book, in it Craig Bodington said he took a .600 NE double on hunt. When he pulled the trigger both barrels went off, he said the second barrel fired mid recoil, and said the elephant , me and the photographer all hit the ground at the same time! The recoil of the double discharge almost ripped his thumb off, and his shoulder was in bad shape for a while. Thats when the .577 and bigger bashing started.

Sounds like a good reason to carry a reliable four down 577 bolt action.

I have never seen a rifle shooting technique such as pictured with ISS.
Hands off in mid recoil!
Psychokinesis?
Can the working of the action and the pull of the trigger also be done telepathically?
Maybe Robgunbuilder can comment on this technique?
May the farce be with you.

DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

I have the complete article. Terry makes two points. First, he suggests that the ultra large bores are impossible to handle. I know that for me that would probably be true. However, there are a lot of guys here who can and who have hunted with them. His second point is that the ultra large bores are probably not necessary. He suggests that a gun like a .505 Gibbs is probably all the gun you need under any circumstance. I agree with the latter point but would never argue against a bigger bore for another fellow if he can indeed handle it and wants to use it.

I really like Terry's writing but I think that sometimes he talks about things that he has little or no experience with such as the .500 Jeffery or in this case, the ultra large bores. I would love an opportunity to shoot a braked .585 AHR or a .600 OK.

Ever think that just maybe ol Terry had a double discharge because he shot that .600NE INCORRECTLY!
Sounds like my Prius driving friends. A 200HP car is all you will ever NEED. Like they actually have a say in what I NEED! Unfortunately, I'm not interested in their advice! I prefer a 650RWHP supercharged VIPER. They think its scary and unnecessary! Sorry Terry, but in weapons, cars and Money there is no such thing as Too much! - Rob

I would have expected better from Terry Wieland who supposedly is a knowledgeable gun writer and the author of "Dangerous Game Rifles". A personal opinion is fine, but when someone mandates what big bore rifle I can handle and then state that all the big bore shooters never hunt anything, that is over the top.

I have shot several buffalo and numerous elephant with 450 Dak, 500 AHR, 585 AHR and 600 Ok. Now I will fess up, I did need help with the 585 AHR on my last hunt in August in Zim. But I have a bad knee and am over 70 yrs of age. However, I can still walk 8 hrs a day and can shoot an ele with the 585 at the end of it.

Never criticize a group of people, ie. Big Bore Guys, when you don't know what your talking about. Just another example of the current one size fits all mentality of our nanny goverment and society in general. Never thought I would hear this nonsense in the ranks of fellow shooters.

Dak

That said, do we need some ultra big bores to shoot buff and ele?? IMHO, no, but I recommend a 416 or 450 for buff and a 500 or 505 for ele in the thick Jesse. I just prefer the thrill of shooting some of the big bores.

Terry is wrong on so many levels. He clearly states in insulting, arrogant and condescending terms that owning a big bore rifle just to shoot at a gun club or range is low class.

Same can be said for a bullet going over 2,700 fps Not needed so obviously those who do anything above 2700 are idiots.

Someone please tell Terry he is creating propoganda for the left based on opinion from little experience. Remember a certain gun writer calling the ar type rifles terrorists guns not good for hunting?

We have enough writers and stories here.
Big Bore Magazine
where a 500 Nitro is considered a "Medium" bore.
If there is a magazine coming from a Big Bore Shooters perspective maybe it could clear the crap that is out there for those who shoot Big Bores and flirt with smaller ones instead of the other way around.

Wonder If Terry would let me teach him how to shoot big bores, that he'd take me to Africa with him in graditude? Then let me shoot all his Animals for him Mark Sullivan Style? Video the provoked charges and have TERRY pose with HIS dead animals? He obviously DOESNT NEED to hunt them anyway! -Rob

Mr Wieland misses the point ... many 458WinMags are just 'range rifles' as well. Shooting is about fun!

Here's the stupid reasoning that has got the 338Lapua banned in some Australian states ... or not banned but unregisterable.

In testing the 338Lapua ... Sth Australian Police managed to hit a fridge at 2500m. It must therefore be dangerous and unnecessary. Our Big Game Rifle Club emerged in the early 1980's in response to moves to ban ('no reason for them') large bore rifles. It's rumoured that the first double built in 600Nitro resides with a collector in Australia ... imagine if it had to go to a crusher, like so many of our 'no need too dangerous' rimfire and shotgun semi-autos.

I'll be emailing Mr Weiland's publisher to thank them for adding more nails in the coffin of gun owners the World around.
Cheers...
Con

Come on, guys. Seriously.

I doubt very much that many anti-gunners read Rifle Shooter!

They're more likely to read Ladies' Home Journal.

And in any case, they are quite capable of coming up with ridiculous anti-gun arguments all on their own.

Let's not turn a well-intentioned discussion on big bores suitable for use on dangerous game into something political.

mrlexma,
Whilst a fair point ... we've found in Australia that the anti forces are watching web forums and in a round about way quoting our own dissent taken out of context when the need arises. We do the same.

eg ... 'even respected gun authorities recognise there is no need for large calibre rifles' etc...

Your right ... this is not a political forum ... but the debate that's dragged up amongst shooters/hunters by articles such as these is unfortunately used.

Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Come on, guys. Seriously.

actually, YES, SERIOUSLY.. terry made a damaging-to the sports comment

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
I doubt very much that many anti-gunners read Rifle Shooter!

that's a foolish statement. Zumbo had his sponsers pull ads for nearly as asshatted comments

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
They're more likely to read Ladies' Home Journal.

no sir, those persons are passionate and VOTE and RALLY ... look no further than california. NEVER loose respect for your opposition, that is a foolish tactic

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
And in any case, they are quite capable of coming up with ridiculous anti-gun arguments all on their own.

yes, and when gunwriters say it, AND THEY CAN QUOTE IT, it makes us all look stupid

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Let's not turn a well-intentioned discussion

i disagree, and please stop agreeing that some rounds are "unneeded" .. this is IDIODIC

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma: on big bores suitable for use on dangerous game

terry's statement wasn't on big bores, it was on cartridges that are unneeded

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma: into something political.

it IS political, sir. EVERY statement about guns under this administration is political.

Donot be foolish and expect that the antis will let that quote pass.. it will get trotted out EVERY time there's an attempt to ban something

dang, it, sir, jersey has outlawed hollowpointed pistol bullets and the 600 OK already .. do you REALLY think they aren't looking for ways to take more?

I don't need a lot of things. And some of those things I don't want ether.

Motorcycles, are one of those things I don't want or need. I can do everything with my truck that I need. I can give lots of reasons why my truck is better but I won't tell you that you don't need a motorcycle nor will I write it down in a magazine.

What constitutes "big big bore" W.D.M. Bell proved that elephant can be taken with a 6.5, Is .277 and larger "big big".

I agree with mrlexma. This is'nt going anywhere with any anti gun freeks. The only person that will get hurt from this is Mr. Wieland.

Jim Zumbo made the same mistake a few years ago commenting about black guns. I guess this is the backside of being a gun writer. Based on the comments I've seen here Mr. Wieland will probably have some damage control to do.

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
I don't need a lot of things. And some of those things I don't want ether.

Motorcycles, are one of those things I don't want or need. I can do everything with my truck that I need. I can give lots of reasons why my truck is better but I won't tell you that you don't need a motorcycle nor will I write it down in a magazine.

What constitutes "big big bore" W.D.M. Bell proved that elephant can be taken with a 6.5, Is .277 and larger "big big".

I agree with mrlexma. This is'nt going anywhere with any anti gun freeks. The only person that will get hurt from this is Mr. Wieland.

Jim Zumbo made the same mistake a few years ago commenting about black guns. I guess this is the backside of being a gun writer. Based on the comments I've seen here Mr. Wieland will probably have some damage control to do.

But no one is trying to outlaw motortcycles
There is already a concerted effort to make 50 Cal and any thing larger illegal.

Terry was irresponcible with his comments IMHO

The way I read the article is that he was talking about hunting rifles used in hunting and his "need" staement was to that affect. You all are carrying it further than he intended. He never said that big big bores should be banned. If he intended that then I believe he would have said it.

465H&H

quote:

it IS political, sir. EVERY statement about guns under this administration is political.

Jeff this statement is TRUE FOR ALL ADMINISTRATIONS REGARDLESS OF PARTY!

"The last twenty years, the only opinion I put much stock in by a writer is Craig Boddington. Seventy-some Safaris, that man knows his business!"

But he DID say Countersniper scopes were equal to Schmidt and Bender!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Come on, guys. Seriously.

actually, YES, SERIOUSLY.. terry made a damaging-to the sports comment

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
I doubt very much that many anti-gunners read Rifle Shooter!

that's a foolish statement. Zumbo had his sponsers pull ads for nearly as asshatted comments

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
They're more likely to read Ladies' Home Journal.

no sir, those persons are passionate and VOTE and RALLY ... look no further than california. NEVER loose respect for your opposition, that is a foolish tactic

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
And in any case, they are quite capable of coming up with ridiculous anti-gun arguments all on their own.

yes, and when gunwriters say it, AND THEY CAN QUOTE IT, it makes us all look stupid

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Let's not turn a well-intentioned discussion

i disagree, and please stop agreeing that some rounds are "unneeded" .. this is IDIODIC

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma: on big bores suitable for use on dangerous game

terry's statement wasn't on big bores, it was on cartridges that are unneeded

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma: into something political.

it IS political, sir. EVERY statement about guns under this administration is political.

Donot be foolish and expect that the antis will let that quote pass.. it will get trotted out EVERY time there's an attempt to ban something

dang, it, sir, jersey has outlawed hollowpointed pistol bullets and the 600 OK already .. do you REALLY think they aren't looking for ways to take more?

I don't know how you do all of that cutting and pasting, me being so foolish and all.

So I can hardly rebut all of that, now can I?

Maybe you and I should just read the article, then decide?

Terry Wieland, over-generalizer though he may be, is no gun-banner. To say otherwise would indeed be foolish.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:

Terry Wieland, over-generalizer though he may be, is no gun-banner. To say otherwise would indeed be foolish.

he may be no gunbanner .. but his PUBLISHED words are fuel for them.

He PUBLISHED those words, sir, certainly do NOT do any favors to the sports. since the 500 nitro, 500 jeffery, 577 ne, 600 ne, and 700 ne, as well as 8, 4, and 2 bore double rifles are ALL larger than the 505 gibbs (keep it simple, .510 is BIGGER, in the eyes of gungrabbers) he is recommending that there is NO USE for these for hunting.

This is what he SAID.. not what he may have meant .. and its not at all helpful to the sport, is it?

No, its not, you know it, but you'll keep fighting it.

Oh, yeah, the 50 bmg is ALSO bigger than a gibbs.

and PLEASE don't give me any CRAP about a gibbs being a larger case than X... the 500 linebaugh is the last .510 pistol round, everyone else did them is .500 .. because people couldn't READ the atf law, which says Bore not to exceed .500 ... didn't say SQUAT about bullets or grooves, yet the 50ae, 500 SW, 50 beowolf, and herds of others are specically invented caliber to NOT be greater than .500

why?
Because some gungrabber MISREAD the law and arrested people over it.

Terry should NOT have said these words, certainly not in print. Oh, he may not have MEANT it, but he SAID it...

and making the statement, in print, affixes it to the world to be used as they will

and your own words are that the anti's can make up whatever they want... to extend on that, they can twist whatever they want to say whatever they way ... but when its PLAINLY printed, they can just throw the shooting mag on the bench and say "one of their own says these aren't sporting" ... and you can't even beging to argue against it ...

unless you want to take the tactic of twisting what is PLAINLY said into something of different meaning.

Hmmmmmmmmmm, well thought out and written Jeffe.

Let's us just agree with "Jim Zumbo, Part Deux".

Rich

Jeff:

I have the article. Terry quotes Craig as saying that it is hard for people to handle the ultra large bores and clearly states that "IN HIS OPINION" you don't need much more than a .505 Gibbs if you put your bullets in the right place. Pretty hard to argue with that logic. I don't think anyone is going to be racing into your gun room to grab your guns. Pour yourself a glass of Knob Creek my friend

"Hard to HANDLE" is one statement and this is another ./..

quote:

...

The crazy thing is none of them are necessary. The 585 Nyati, which was developed by writer Ross Seyfried;
the 577 Tyrannosaur, the brain child of A-Square and star of the notorious internet videos; and now the
585 GMA - are all of the same category. ...

"none of them are necessary .. - are all of the same category."
Seems pretty darn clear to me ... he's dismissing entire catagories of firearms and cartridges.


PUBLISHED words, Dave, not private opinions

I give up, guys .. those arguing for this gungrabber just don't get it ..... you are like the same people that think a gun tax/registration/permit is good politics.

How about this .. YOU don't try to give MY gun RIGHTS away? that clear enough?

Damn, it must be hot down there in Texas!

So I have to ask, jeffe:

Do you want to ban the words "not necessary" and "unnecessary" and the like from every "published" discussion everywhere about firearms?

Context is everything, my friend. Context is critical.

None of us should modify our perfectly appropriate behavior or speech out of fear that someone with an anti-gun agenda might twist it out of context and try to use it against us.

That is the same as giving up the fight, IMHO.

No one has fought in print for Canadian gun rights, or exposed in print the fallacy of recent Canadian gun laws, more than Terry Wieland.

I believe that the conclusion he reaches in this article is correct, but that the reasoning he used to get there is not.

I won't attack him on political grounds - or stand by while others do - since that is patently and completely unfair.

As someone once said, I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend forever your right to say it.

Over and out.

Terry Weeweeland is just a snobbish prick in the tone of his writing, he is always putting on airs.
Do not take him too seriously, just take him with a grain of penicillin and a chuckle.

His latest faux pas (he likes that Frenchie lingo), was to peg the date of origin of the 404 Jeffery as 1909, instead of 1905.

Spotted that in RIFLE No. 248, January 2010, in his article "Up from the Ashes, RIGBY REDOUBLED."
Should that have been "Up Your Asses, Rigby's Two Corporations," hmmm? SUBLIMINAL!

Clever how he worked in a reference to California and London Rigby companies via the bold "Redoubled" in the title.

As usual, minimal firsthand experience and faulty research on his part, regarding the reference to the 404 Jeffery.
I'll bet Terry Weeweeland doesn't even realize that the 404 Jeffery is the granddaddy of bolt action DGRs.
DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

T W has been a jerk for a long time.

I read nothing of his as it's a waste of good time...