The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Which .416???Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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OK guys...I sold my .375, and I am now in the market for a .416 for tuskless and buff. What do you recommend? Here are a few factors... I don't reload, so ammo will be factory. I have 2 boxes of .416 Rigby as I already have a single shot in the caliber. I have a contact where I will likely be able to buy one of the new Win Model 70's at a very good price (I figure $750-800). Of course, that will be .416 Rem. I know that we haven't seen the new 70's yet, but wold there be any reason to buy a Ruger Mark II for twice the $, or anything else for that matter? I am not in a huge hurry. The trip is in late July. I would like your opinions please. Thanks! Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | ||
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If you can get a new M70 for that kind of money your decision should already be made IMHO. There's nothing wrong with the .416 Rem it's a great round.  | |||
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I would suggest the CZ550 becasue of the added magazine capacity in 416Rigby and its a nice classic gun. I think it will hold 5 down. You would have to verify that. The catalogs are too conservative, the HH rounds go 6 down. Then, You already have a 416 Rigby, so why complicate your life? Just be sure it feeds right. Ammo in 416Rem is getting hard to find. and, the Winchester only holds three down. The Ruger MKII in 416 is a great gun.I have one, its a dream to shoot and a beauty to look at. Worht the cost of admission. IHMO. Another option, if you can find one (and find ammo) is the 416Ruger with the over molded stock. All business, priced right. This would be a handy, light weight option. Having more recoil while very easy carry. | |||
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real choices today are 416 weatherby weatherby only 416 rigby cz, ruger, 416 AccREl wildcat 416 Ruger ruger only 416 Rem no one is offering the factory round TODAY 416 Taylor the ruger has killed it. My suggestion is to get a 458 Lott on a CZ and reload -- sell your rigby ammo will help. Why the .458, rather than the 416 in question? The cost of bullets, the availibility of brass, and the fact that it can be loaded from 250gr at 1200fps to 500 at 2300fps .... with rem 405s being the cheapest bigbore bullet going opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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The one and only classic of course the 416 Rigby _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Please get the Rigby, shoot it 300-400 times to prepare for your trip and then send me your empty brass. My humble advice would be to start handloading. Shooting the big bores is much more enjoyable when you can cheaply craft your own ammo. The next best thing is an accomodating friend with a a well-stocked reloading room. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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Boy, do we ever live in interesting times! UNTIL NOW, the big drawback to the .416 Remington was the lack of a CRF gun in that caliber. As a result, the cartridge nearly faded into into history like my wonderful 8mm Rem. Mag. However, I'm thinking that in one fell swoop Winchester has singlehandedly brought it back to life. Model 70 guys are going to flock to that Safari Express Rifle in .416 Remington and I think this is an ominous development for the Ruger African. We'll see. The only problem right now is finding .416 Remington ammo and brass. I just sold 60 rounds of brass here on AR. I have gone through this before. I think Remington only runs it once a year and sometimes it can be pretty hard to find. Maybe someday will we have Winchester ammo and brass for the .416 Remington. Who would have thought it? Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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When Win brings back their CRF in 416 Rem; that would be my choice. Especially at $700-$800.00. Put another $200.00 into bedding and a little trigger work if the unit does not suite you. You could go a step further and have the action honed and made to feed flawlessly. EZ | |||
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One thing to consider is that Winchester Ammo is making .416 Rem and Rigby in Nosler Partitions and Solids. This is my guess why Winchester decided to bring this gun back in .416 Rem. Even though we all know they are separate companies, they still work quite closely together on projects such as this. Showing my ignorance...but are there older Model 70's (90's and 2000's) in .416 Rigby? I think I would rather have the Rigby just for convenience of ammo, but I realize the Rem is a great load. I appreciate the feedback and look forward to more... Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | |||
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Tim, thanks! I didn't know it but you are correct. Winchester ammo is already making the .416 Remington. Wow! Boy-oh-boy is this going to be fun! Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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I believe Federal offers 416 rem as well. | |||
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I just posted a case of 416 Rem brass for sale in the AR classifieds. At least a few hundred are available... ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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If you don't reload, pick the 416 remington. Loaded Rigby ammo is almost twice the price. And really, your best bargain would be 458 win, but I digress. I might even look ath the 416 Ruger, but as of yet, your only option is a stainless synthetic but, the price point of both rifle and ammo is attractive. The Ruger RSM is really a nice rifle, and easily a bargain when you consider the features and that you don't have to dump any money into it out of the box. The winchesters coming out look to be a even better bargain, but a 9 lb 416 is going to move you a bit. John | |||
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Hornady loads the 416 Rigby at about 84 or so dollars a box _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Looks like besides the Hornadys that the Rem is the way to go as far as price on factory ammo... Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | |||
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You could pick up a CZ in .458 Win or Lott or .416 Rigby, have AHR trick it out to your heart's content (a little or a lot), and go to town. Winchester 416s are still found on the auction sites if that is what you want, or one can be built. If your sources assure you that a new Model 70 Winchester will be available in time to have it sorted out and give you time to practice, then for the price that is not a bad deal in .458 or .416. For elephant hunting a lighter rifle that has acceptable recoil is sometimes preferable to a heavier rifle with lower felt recoil, but opinions are all over the place on that. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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Rigby. That large case helps to keep the pressure down, which can be an issue in the hot African climate. If I recall correctly, the Rigby runs about 40,000 CUP, and the Remington at 50,000. Don Heath is no fan of the .416 Remington, especially in a Remington rifle: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=427106051#427106051 Last thing you need is an extraction problem on a DG hunt. SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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A fan of the Rigby but not the Remington? There are a hell of a lot more PH's using the 416 Remington than they are the 416 Rigby. Just in case anyone would want some actual, practical advise: Both the 416 Rem and 416 Taylor are going to feed inherently better than all the rest. You can get a 416 Rem from CZ and now the latest Mod. 70. But the Mod. 70 safety is a dangerous thing. Magazine capacities of the 416 Rem and 416 Taylor are going to be greater than any Rigby. If you don't think magazine capacity is vastly more important than any supposed benefit of the Rigby, just ask Alan Shearing about magazine capacity. I'm afraid it is quite delusional to believe magazine capacity is not important. But do what you think is best!  ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Now I heard it all. What is this about? | |||
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Would not the same apply to the 416 Ruger?
577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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. . . that says it all. Mike | |||
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With regard to a 9 Lb 416 moving you around? If you are considering a scope; I would say a 1.5 x 5 leupold, bases and rings and a magazine full of cartridges should increase the weight a pound or a shade more. Now you have a 10 pounder. I suspect most Rigby's may typically weigh a bit more than a Ruger or Remington due to the action required. I have a Remington and love it but have my eye on a pristine Kimber 89 (Oregon) in 416 Rigby; It is a nostalgic thing! | |||
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Buy a .416Rem. You will never regret it. And you can safely ignore any suggestion of over pressure in African climates; it's proven B.S. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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The CZ in 416 Rigby holds 4 down _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I have used a 416 Rigby since 1990 and absolutely love the cartridge. I started with a Ruger and eventually moved up to a Dakota African and it may be the best rifle I own. I have two friends who have 416 Remington's and I have shot them a lot also but still prefer the Rigby. If you can afford the rifle that will handle the Rigby cartridge I say whole heartedly go for the Rigby if not you will still be well served by the Remington. The Rigby just gives you the same ballistics with much lower pressure yet capable of more if handloaded--if you think you need it. The display of PURE POWER is nothing short of AWESOME ! 1 JOHN 3:18 | |||
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Sell me your Ruger # 1, keep your 2 boxes of ammo and buy yourself a Rigby with the money from your 375 and Ruger that you sold  | |||
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I like the winchester M70 in .416 Rem. I dislike the safety for right handed use...but that is a personal thing  Small point...but you will find .416 Rem ammo in many a small gun shop in Africa. You will find .416 Rigby in the larger gun shops, you will find ' .416 Ruger???? that's a new one to me' in just about every safari camp let alone gun shops! In the past there were some pressure issues with the rem. These appear to have been solved (at least a decade ago). PMP underloads the rem to avoid the problems and Winchester, Federal, Norma etc use modern powders.... At the end of the day it comes down to 'which rifle fits you best'. You will be comming hunting as a client not as a PH- a 10rnd magazine is of no importance....a rifle that you are comfortable and competent with will mean you get to kill your animals not the PH. | |||
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. . . Thank you Don ; now when ISS gets on his Rigby soap ox , i mean Box I will point him here ..... . the 416 Rem . is my favorite 416 . Tho I think the Ruger is great and I want one , I prefer the Remington ... It feeds like a dream , and kills like a bolt of lightning in my experience .. And it will work fine on longer shots also .... .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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If I'm going to kill the PH, does caliber matter? | |||
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I would just do the .458 Lott and be done with it and have all your bases covered. Cal30 If it cant be Grown it has to be Mined! Devoted member of Newmont mining company Underground Mine rescue team. Carlin East,Deep Star ,Leeville,Deep Post ,Chukar and now Exodus Where next? Pete Bajo to train newbies on long hole stoping and proper blasting techniques. Back to Exodus mine again learning teaching and operating autonomous loaders in the underground. Bringing everyday life to most individuals 8' at a time! | |||
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gumboot, had to bring me into this, didn't you? Yes, another vote for the CZ in 416 Rigby. It's been doing the job, at low pressure, for about a hundred years now. The game is not any tougher, or Rigby-resistant. The CZ is still a CRF Mauser action, and mine has a Wisner drop box floorplate. Five down! I was pretty happy to sit the CZ 450 Dakota on cross sticks and squeeze that set trigger at one pound. Like a great big target rifle. If you plan to keep woofing about the 416 Ruger, you have to buy one. Else, your opinion is about as meaningful as a popcorn fart in a typhoon! Rich | |||
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I own the 416 Remington & the 458 Lott. The Lott can kill any animal in the world. I load my own ammo. | |||
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I thought they allowed for 4 down, but either way, it's headed in the right direction. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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 What do you base this on? I would prefer the Model 70 Safety over anything else I have ever came across? | |||
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The M-70 is by no means the quickest and quietest safety imaginable. It is designed for a more deliberate type of shooting and maximum safety. Still many hunters use them successfully. | |||
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And the .416 Remington/Rigby/Ruger/Taylor/Weatherby can't?  NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Another reason to choose the "Classic" the original 416, the Rigby. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I can't speak to your experiences in Canada but my preferred stores in Rhode Island have loaded ammo in stock as do Cabelas and MidwayUSA. NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Of course I know this is not in the running, but all those 416 Rigby and Remingtons are far too big a rifle for such a small bore cartridge! Those rifles come in at 9-11 lbs or so! Long Long barrels, 24-26 inches! That's something like having a 13 lb AR 15 shooting 223 or something! Make mine a 416 B&M, short and handy!  Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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