quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Yes! Do all the above and you won't need a new stock afterall.
Paint it or "texture-camoflage" it with epoxy when you are done,
and you too will have a priceless work of art.
Look closely below and you will see the peak of Kilimanjaro rising from near the equator in East Africa.

Yes, I see Kili raising up out of Entebbe

And maybe I won't need a third Boyd's stock, but the first definitely needs to be replaced. The Boyd's crossbolt inside the bridge material is probably bent. And there are several cracks that would remain 'unrepaired' unless receiving massive drilling to relieve potential sliding and crushing in inaccessible split laminates. On a gun with recoil that approaches 100 footlbs I'm thinking that 'new and solid' is to be preferred to 'maybe sufficiently repaired'.


I would also like to give a nice public thank you to Ruger.

I called them about getting screws for the action after the front mounting screw bent when my laminate stock cracked. They were sympathetic and sent a set of mounting screws and a spring for the mazagine box free of charge and free shippin, although I was trying to order them and pay for them. That is quite delightful service and wins kudos for RUGER.
Class act.


The follower and magazine box were not available, so I've ordered new ones from Brownells, where in good tradition they accepted payment and charged for shipping.

In another thread Jeffeoso mentioned the question of 500 AccRel brass.

Does anyone have any?

Meanwhile, I hope to do some load development in a couple of weeks after restocking my 'Nyati'.

Tanz,

Do you need the headstamped brass or would some of Captech Intl's basic 338 Lapua brass work? If the latter, contact Captech and ask if they have any basic left from their last 338 LM run...

Hi Tanz
What about Quality Cartridge?? I have bought around 200 pcs og 500 AccRel brass from them..

Otherwise making them from 338 Lapua is easy as you probably know..

Ulrik

Thanks for the heads-up, Jim.

At the moment I'm hoping for formed brass since I don't have many spare primers for fireforming.

On another topic, I'll be in the US the coming month and can pass the 500 AccRel Nyati reamer to whoever needs it next.

Tanz, PM sent.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Thanks for the heads-up, Jim.

At the moment I'm hoping for formed brass since I don't have many spare primers for fireforming.

Tanz,

Running Captech Intl/Jamison 338 Lapua Magnum basic brass (basic cylinder shaped brass) into your FLR die followed by trimming to length will give you the equivalent of how your 500 AR brass is delivered by QC (if it's delivered formed rather than cylinder). In fact, if you've properly adjusted your FLR die to more closely match your rifles chamber it might even give you less brass growth with your fist firing.

Just something to think about.

For ShortandFat--
This thread has some comments on Lapua brass forming.

Well, I finally got to the range with the new stock on the 500 AccRel Nyati. We were mainly going to test my wife's new 375Ruger, but we wanted to see if the new Boyd's stock on the 500 accRel would allow it to show some accuracy potential.

The Boyd's stock was a pepper laminate with a montecarlo cheekpiece. The stock is relatively light and thin and designed for typical NorthAmerican deer rifles. I thought that it would make a great lightweight .510" buffalo stomper. The handle has a .25" bolt running transverse through the middle from the back of the tang towards the grip cap. Betweeen the tang screw and trigger well I epoxied a pin across the stock to protect against splitting. Under the barrel there is a CZ-styled barrel lug and I have built up a retaining lug in the barrel channel by epoxying a .25" cross bolt and glassbedding a receiver lug. See the following picture:



I felt that the stock would be strong enough.
I tried a first group with 90 grains H322 behind a GSC 450 grain HV. I was very unimpressed with a 3-4 inch vertical spread at 100 yards (5-power scope [Nikon Slughunter 1.65-5]). So I thought that I would try a load that previously showed some promise, 101 grains of H322 behind the 450gn GSC HV. Temperature was about 90F. Velocity was checked by TWO ProChronos. Differences in the machines averaged about 10 fps, which I think is pretty close. The load averaged 2635fps, corrected for the muzzle, which is about 6900 ftlbs.

However, only two shots we fired. The stock cracked.


How can a person develop loads and check on accuracy if the stock keeps cracking?
Recoil is brisk, but manageable and would make a great buffalo load. But the little lightweight stocks are just not up to the task, it would seem.

I have an idea, which I'll post on a separate thread.

I almost forgot to add the good news to this thread that the new barrel will be able to shoot accurately. I patched the above stock crack by knocking the wood reinforcement block back, adding two cross-bolt allthreads, and bedding the main recoil area. Although the stock has cracked again, faintly, I was able to get one good group after using a thick piece of paper to stabilize the barrel from the forearm recoil lug out to the forearm tip.

Here is the group:



This was the 500 AccRel Nyati shooting a 450 grain Woodleigh over 100 grains of H322 at 100 yards on a reasonably hot day (90F) for a 1.2" group size and 2605fps average velocity, approximately 6770ftlbs. that'll git 'er done.

All we need to do is get the stocks to hold together and we should be able duplicate and refine this.

OK, take 3 on bedding a stock for the 500 AccRel Nyati.

I've got a new Boyd's with factory crosspins.


And I've learned my lessons. The main recoil area gets a first bedding. I dug out a trench and epoxy-inserted a 1.4" 1/4" allthread about 1/4" behind the recoil surface, and then epoxied the area. (The rear tang was screwed down and the front barrel was taped and solid at the end of the stock for accurate positioning of the main action lug area. No pressure was placed on the action and a dummy screw was used to prevent epoxy from running up the lug screw hole.) It came out clean and the action/barrel is well-centered in the stock. The only flaw is cosmetic, they are a few spots on the top surface that resulted from tiny air pockets and/or scrapping holes that didn't fill 100&. 98% smooth should be much more than enough, since the front recoil place is 100% and epoxied into the sides.


The above picture also shows the foundation that will support the barrel lug bedding. The foundation is a 1" 1/4" allthread epoxied just infront of the beginning of the barrel channel. Two 1/8" allthreads are epoxied along the bottom sides of the channel with a slight inletting for those thin allthreads to get better purchase along the stock. These connecting pins then reach the 1.2" 1/4" allthread that was inletted and epoxied about 1/8" behind the area where the barrel lug will be bedded. See this from another angle.


Then I epoxied about 4 inches of 1/4" allthread lengthwise into the wrist from behind the rear action screw. The picture shows the shiney grey circle that now covers that wrist bolt.


So how will I proceed?

Next step is a mini-bedding on the sides of the rear tang. This will be to guarantee repeated straight mounting of the action and barrel without allowing for sideways slide and pressure. The freefloated barrel will need to remain freefloating and non-touching, without any sideways play at the tang. This side-tang bedding will probably lay a less-than-paper-thin epoxy across the rear bolt top surface, but it should not affect the overall sitting of the action and the barrel will be fully freefloated on the final, stable action before the barrel lug will be bedded.
The wrist-pin hole may fill in during the side-tang bedding and if the rear rounding of the tang fills in I will grind that back about .03-.05"

When the barrel lug is bedded the action should be stress free and will be screwed down tight. The barrel will be freefloated everywhere except the barrel lug area. That area will probably end up with a tight bedding on the sides of the barrel lug knuckle and may partially run up the sides toward the surface of stock and barrel line.

A question will remain after the barrel lug bedding. Will any repair bedding be needed for the area between the barrel chamber head and the barrel lug knuckle? At the moment I am thinking of leaving that alone since this laminate stock should not change too much with the humidity swings in Tanzania.
PS: there is a 8oz. mercury reducer in the butt of the stock. This is primary to add balance to the large barrel of the 500. (Barrel is 22", custom contour, CZ-magnum-ish, but with 3" initial full diameter from the magazine end.)

If all goes well, it can be test-fired next week.

PS: to Rob in LV--I considered PM'ing you and asking about last-year's offer to help on the bedding, but the time involved in a visit and other responsibilities have overruled. Your advice is appreciated always.

Well, you've all been patiently holding your breath--

Good news.
The stock has held together and we found a good load: 350 grain CEB with 95.5 gn H4198,
producing 2815 fps and a group of 0.7" at 100yards.


So I'm finally happy with this rifle.

I'll try to add a video, too, that shows how mild this gun is. Y'all get one, ya'hear? (OK, I just want to see another run of QualCart brass. It's good brass.)

Looks like you have things working well. Congrats Tanz...

OK, I haven't figured out how to edit movies into something small yet, but here is a still shot.



So the take home message for anyone wanting to build a big bore is that a person needs to learn to hold on. The rifle doesn't hurt anyone, but it does jump quite a bit on the bench as seen in the picture. Just hold on, and expect 'golf-ball' groups or less at 100 yards.

That's minute of gopher right there

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Well, you've all been patiently holding your breath--

Good news.
The stock has held together and we found a good load: 350 grain CEB with 95.5 gn H4198,
producing 2815 fps and a group of 0.7" at 100yards.


So I'm finally happy with this rifle.

I'll try to add a video, too, that shows how mild this gun is. Y'all get one, ya'hear? (OK, I just want to see another run of QualCart brass. It's good brass.)

Tanz,

What is your final weight with scope?

Nice question, Jim, I haven't weighed it.

The basic Ruger platform was originally about 8-lb, to which the scope and rings are about 18 oz. (Ruger rings plus Nikon Slughunter 1.65-5), and an 8oz mercury tube was inserted into the drilled cavity of the laminate-stock. The 22" .510"-bore barrel also added a little weight.

So I am guessing that the final weight is between 9.5 and 10 pounds, possibly just over 10.

I'll try to check it if I can find a good scale next week.

10-4. Still much better than the typical 11+# .510 caliber BB rifle.

416Tanzan,
Fine setup for testing here, and great action photo of recoil handled well.



I am always amused when I see the small bore and rimfire bench shooters with no grip on the forearm at all, maybe with the offhand curled around the rear bag at the buttstock, and contacting the rifle only with trigger hand, cheek and shoulder.

Maybe I need to try the one-handed technique on small bores, and I think I must, to try for sub 0.1" groups at 100 yards.

So far it has been hard to break my habit of holding on tightly to the forearm with the offhand, something I did instinctively, or learned from reading Elmer Keith in my youth.

Tips for sub 0.2" 3-shot groups at 100 yards with your 500 AR Nyati:

1. Set the front rest and rear bags as tall as they will go and still allow easy sight alignment with rifle at rest before you grip it. A taller bench or standing rest is not always available.
A shooting posture should be upright as possible whether sitting or standing.
Do not lean forward into the rifle or crawl the stock or crane the neck, keep head upright and maintain eye relief enough to see the bullseye, don't worry about getting the full field of view.

2. Rest the forend of the rifle on the front rest as far forward as possible, short of placing bare barrel on rest. This gives more room for gripping the forearm as far forward as possible.

3. Grip the forearm firmly and as far forward as comfortable for you, farther away from the action than pictured above. This gives mechanical advantage to the grip on the forearm for control in recoil.
Really powerful rifles have to be gripped with a thumb over the top of the barrel, offhand fully wrapping the forearm and barrel together in hand, to prevent torque from making the rifle jump off the front rest and lay over on its side.
The one-handed benchrest shooter might be surprised by a first encounter with a 577 T-rex shooting a heavy bullet and a full load of proper powder. I was!

4. Get a small sandbag, folded towel, or foam rubber pad under your elbow of trigger hand, and also similar padding under your offhand forearm/elbow and rest both arms comfortably on the shooting bench.

5. Use a PAST pad or folded towel or extra slip-on recoil pad at the bench. The extra LOP created is not a bad thing here. The shoulder bruise prevention and Weatherby eyebrow prevention are good things.

6. Pull the rifle firmly into shoulder and down onto the bags, gripping with both hands in simultaneous coordination, and bunch up the pectoral and shoulder muscles behind the butt of the rifle. Cheek on the stock lightly, head upright, not a "weld," acquire the sight picture.

7. Concentrate on consistency in everything, same as last shot.
Trigger finger is the only relaxed part of body just before the shot.
Start the breathing-and-heart-rate-control meditation thing before willing the trigger to break. Ommmmm ...

Good tutorial Ron.

Assuming I wanted to build one and Oh I do I do. What would be a good suitable "donor" rifle. ie one I could do a simple re-barrel on. What reamer should I order (cost) and any other relvent info on required reloading dies would be good too.
Best barrel length too?

There is no 'best', but the Ruger Hawkeye is an excellent cost-effective platform, control-feed. It limits COL to 3.4", which shouldn't be a problem for hunting bullets and the 500 ARNyati is not designed for 800-grain super-high BC bullets. Leave those to the BMG crowd.

I have 22" barrel length. Because of the faster powders in a relatively straight-wall case, shorter can also work fairly efficiently, like a 20".

Build one?
I recommend the ruger crf. Hawkeye is great. Doesn't really matter if 270 7mag 3006 300 win or 338 winmag..


Order your barrel from McGowen. I suggest the ruger mag profile to and through the taper and then about .750 at the muzzle or 23" .. this is actually heavier in the taper and shank than the CZ profile

I think I have a set of dies left. I will need to order some more

Use the nyati throat. All but 2 reamers have been or are being recut to the shorter throat. I am keeping one long for people that wish to shoot bmg bullets


You can reinforce and reuse the ruger stock.

You'll need gunsmithing work on feeding, follower, and bolt face.

I love this cart

Jeffeosso Thangs for the cartridg
just made a .458 AR on a lefthand Ruger 77
it shoots like a dream

More than welcome -- i hope the owner loves it

the 458 is likely the most practical - the 500 is neat, and I love the 475s ... honestly, due to my my friend Dave's www.470mbogo.com

which started everything in REAL big bores for me,

The 500AR is in the top spot for the coolest.
Now let's get cracking on the 577 Accrel!!!
Just widen the 500 Accrel by 70-75 thou using Nyati brass
550 Accrel? 2.65" 505 Gibbs case necked to .550". About 40 thou wider all around than the 500 Accrel shotgun slugs for practice.

The 2.65" or about that length 577 or 585s has

been done in a necked, shortened Nyati case. Done by

guys using Nyati cases here in the states and in AUS..Ed

Well I figured as much. But has it been perfected?
The 2.65" 550 on the Gibbs case is promising.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Well I figured as much. But has it been perfected?
The 2.65" 550 on the Gibbs case is promising.

Boomy,
just how much recoil do you aim to carry with such a cartridge?
A .550" will mean a relatively heavy slug, and a Gibbsy slight-bottleneck super super magnum in a wider bore, even cut back to 2.65", will generate a lot more muzzle energy. Since the 500ARNyati is already rated at 7000ftlbs, are you aiming for 8500ftlbs? 9000?

To each his own. I'm happy in the 6000-7000 range.

Just thinking of the upper limits of possibilities. Not so much energy but larger diameter projectiles.

Boomy,

The 550 Express already exists. It is a 2.65" belted Weatherby casehead and can do 7000 ftlbs in its sleep. Why would anyone want to add capacity and burn extra powder if not to increase energy?

Like I said, if you want more than 7500ftlbs. then go for it. Otherwise, the 550 Express would seem to fit the bill.

quote:

I think I have a set of dies left. I will need to order some more

Use the nyati throat. All but 2 reamers have been or are being recut to the shorter throat. I am keeping one long for people that wish to shoot bmg bullets

Jeff,
have you considered contacting AmmoGuide to update the entry on the 500 AccRel? It might even be good to have the unofficial name changed to "500 Accurate Reloading (long throat)" for clarity when people start developing loads.

I am thinking of ordering a barrel and doing load dev comparison on them both ... wanna bet there is no difference in the less than milsurp bullets?

Your testing would be appreciated. I would guess that there will be a couple of grain difference in producing similar loads. However, individual rifles have their own quirks.

So we might not get to see the kind of averaging that takes place in common SAAMI calibers when tens and hundreds of individual barrels are tested over the long haul. But every test will help paint a more accurate picture.

I can't see a better, more practical 50-cal round. So it will be good to have some standards and to know more precisely how data between the short throat (0.255") and long throat (1.25") inter-relate.

I'm just happy to have accurate shooting brass raptors. The GSC's are good, too.

There is a potential load that needs to be tested, but my rifle is in a land where development testing can't happen.

The 570 grain TSX Barnes is a traditional weight among .510" users. I'm wondering if someone would be able to test for accuracy nodes in a short-throat Nyati version of the 500AccRel Nyati?

2200fps should probably be reached between 92-95gn H4895 and 2300fps may happen around 96-99gn H4895.

(H4895 is one of the "extreme" Hodgdon powders, relatively insensitive to temperature fluctuations and also good at different powder densities.)

My original testing was primarily with H335 and in the long throat version, 1.25" freebore. I didn't pursue that bullet in later testing because of a prejudice against a .509" purposefully undersized bullet. But that bullet might shoot just fine and should be tested.

Is anyone able to follow up on this?