Here is a picture of the Boyds Thumbhole Stock model.




Will it hold up for a 500 AR Nyati?

Will it feel good in the thumb joint?

Maybe the thinest of threaded rods could be epoxied under the bridge that would allow ample room for the thumb?

Since I've never shot a thumbhole stock, some advice would be appreciated.

Thumbhole stock = bad idea for a DGR.

Interferes with getting the safety off most quickly.
Little bridge of wood over top of thumbhole needs steel rod re-inforcement--tricky.

That is a really tight grip curl on that one, just as bad as the Hogue.

Need a more classic shape with more open grip and that will be quicker to grasp and shoot and will keep your trigger finger angled better for avoiding a whack in recoil.
Death grip with both hands except for trigger finger.

Just my HO.

Thanks.

That is very helpful.

So I suppose I'll try fixing up the Boyds that I already have.

a. As for a 'deathgrip', I was already squeezing for all I was worth, but maybe I need to get the trigger finger off of the stock so that the bolt knob slips inside the finger as it slaps back.

b. do you think that checkering will affect this at all? I'm thinking that it won't. The stock will take off in recoil regardless of checking.

Maybe it is a different pitch on the butt or just a little bit more drop from the nose of the comb to heel of the butt to get a little muzzle rise that is needed?

You do not want to plan to make the bolt handle pass under the trigger finger.
That would just whack the finger in a different spot!

Some muzzle rise will move the bolt knob upward away from the trigger finger.

Maybe a little longer LOP will help.
Just use a slip-on pad to try that.
I always do that on a factory stock to get a 14.5" LOP.
Sure is comforting on the shoulder too.

I am at a loss to explain why some folks get whacked on the trigger finger and some don't.
My trigger finger has never been kissed by a bolt handle.

Yes, having the bolt handle bent forward to closer to perpendicular with the bolt body would definitely help.

Here is the boyd stock appearance.

Buffalo will appreciate.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Here is the boyd stock appearance.

Buffalo will will appreciate.

I just tested the CEB 570 grs and the 600 grs Norths Fork FN - both at at 2350-2400 fps - in my "stop box" filled with wet newspapers.. Around 70-72 inches for the CEB and 73-74" for the North Forks..
No "stripping" of the driving bands like in the 1,25" throated version...

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Here is the boyd stock appearance.

Buffalo will appreciate.

I just tested the CEB 570 grs and the 600 grs Norths Fork FN - both at at 2350-2400 fps - in my "stop box" filled with wet newspapers.. Around 68-70 inches for the CEB and 70-72" for the North Forks..
No "stripping" of the driving bands like in the 1,25" throated version...

Excellent confirmation.

Any pictures?

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Here is the boyd stock appearance.

Buffalo will appreciate.

I just tested the CEB 570 grs and the 600 grs Norths Fork FN - both at at 2350-2400 fps - in my "stop box" filled with wet newspapers.. Around 68-70 inches for the CEB and 70-72" for the North Forks..
No "stripping" of the driving bands like in the 1,25" throated version...

Excellent confirmation.

Any pictures?

Sorry - just corrected the figures... A bit more actually.. And one more is the Hatting BBW#13 with .510" diameter over the driving bands and .500" in between - weight 581 grs.. Same speed - 2395 fps -and penetration of 73" ... Not bad eh... ?

But I am not good at posting pictures...

Thanks guys
We should be proud Pappas

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Here is the boyd stock appearance.

Tanz,

You mentioned Boyd's only checkers their stocks before they leave the factory. Why not search for someone who specializes in checkering that'll also do laminated stocks?

P.S. - Rifles looking pretty good!

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Here is the boyd stock appearance.

Tanz,

You mentioned Boyd's only checkers their stocks before they leave the factory. Why not search for someone who specializes in checkering that'll also do laminated stocks?

P.S. - Rifles looking pretty good!

Thanks, Jim.

At the moment I'm thinking of doing a bare bones trial.

First, I hope to slip on a Limbsaver large slip-on recoil pad. The Boyd's stock is 1.72" wide, so the medium slip on is too narrow.

Then, I will try two little pieces of double-sided mounting tape, one across the ridge behind the tang and where my thumb joint will rest, and one along the knuckle and trigger finger. The idea would be to give me something to help grip the rifle that may help carry my hand backwards in recoil.

Finally, I will do the test without bedding the barrel. I want to see if the floated barrel is accurate. If so, then I can bed the barrel lug and see if the accuracy holds.

Hopefully this can take place later next week since I've located some H322. I only had to call about 10 reloading shops.

I'll aim for 2600-2650 fps with the GSC 450 gn HV. The CEB 350 will probably end up 2800-2950 fps. I haven't shot those yet.

By the way, the minimal amount of shooting done earlier this week still left copper streaks inside the muzzle. I'll have to watch shot to shot to see if a particular bullet is at fault.

--
--

Yes, Jeffeoso--

we are grateful papas.
Again, the calibre strikes me as about optimum for huntability, diameter, trajectory, and buffalo smack.

Tanz

Mr.Buffalo´s Bullet

Tanz,

Instead of using 2-sided tape why don't you pick up a roll of non-slip/anti-skid tape from a local Home Depot or other hardware store? Another alternative would be the anti-skid tape used on skate boards. Both types are designed for use on sealed wood similar to your laminate stock.

Of course the best grip tape alternative is Pachmay's PacSkin Rifle Set - it's a precut grip tape for rifle grip and fore end correctly cut to fold around the grip and fore end - I believe it's Pachmyar part # 00710.

quote:

Originally posted by hatting:
Mr.Buffalo´s Bullet

Definately driving band abrading issue is resolved! Looks like velocities are coming in nicely as well...

Grip panels on a no-checkering-laminated-wood or a fiberglass stock:

I have purchased the grip materials Jim suggests, but never used them.

Instead, I masked off the grip panel areas with regular masking tape then used a small paint brush to paint the area with clear epoxy of any sort that will stay liquid for a few minutes.
Coat is thin enough that it won't sag.
Then lightly sprinkle the epoxy-covered area, inside the masking tape borders, with sand of your favorite color, dark or light, from a salt shaker.
Let it harden.
Peel off the tape.
Voila.

I have done roughly textured epoxy grip panels on Brown Precision stocks for a .358 STA and a .375 WBY.
This is done with a thicker coat of stiffer consistency epoxy like JB Weld that is stippled with any pointy tool as the epoxy begins to set.
Can be very rough and sanded some to smooth a little after setup, or painted over with entire stock painting to smooth a bit.

I have fully covered a laminated wood stock grip with JB Weld and made rough texture in the epoxy. Much more than a sprinkling of sand, on a 470 Mbogo.

The entire stock may be painted with sand in the paint to produce a very durable, functional and aesthetic job on a bare fiberglass stock like this Brown Precision on my .395 H&H Pre-64 M70:



Same could be done with a wood laminate.

I purged my photobucket once upon a time and can't find any examples of my own work in epoxy on the surface of a stock, except for the 404 Jeffery with the map of Africa on butt,
complete with peak of Kilimanjaro on the equator.

Above paint job was done by Kelly Olson in Eagle River, Alaska about 1992. Kelly moved to Buffalo, Minnesota about 1994, about same time I left AK for KY.
IIRC correctly, Kelly used an epoxy paint with sand mixed in and sprayed onto the stock.
Or, maybe he sprinkled the sand onto the wet paint from a spray can, then put another coat of paint over the sand when the first "sanded coat" had dried?
I never got all the trade secret details.

It was previously a .375 H&H and it hunted Alaska, Botswana, and Kentucky, and still looks like new, even after Rusty McGee rebarreled it to .395 H&H in 2011.
Originally it was a 300 H&H in wood stock made in 1958. Walt Sherman rebarreled that to .375 H&H, near Tallahassee, Florida about 1989.

There is quite a bit of bolt handle back-sweep on a Pre-64 M70. Just about identical to the angle on the Ruger.
Ruger probably copied that angle from the Pre-64 M70.
That bolt handle is made integral to the bolt body and so are all the Ruger M77 and Hawkeye rifle bolts.



This rifle weighed about 6.75 pounds with iron sights, no scope, when it was a .375 H&H. That is a one-pound stock.
With the slightly heavier .395 barrel of 23" length with scope bases and iron sights shown, it now weighs exactly 7.0 pounds.

When the front sling swivel base was on the bottom of the forearm, it used to bite my left index finger with offhand shooting sometimes.
So I put a barrel band sling base on it.
But then I decided I preferred the sling base on the forend tip, pointing forward.
No accuracy effects on the rifle when using a sling as a shooting aid.

Be sure to do this to the front sling stud:



Even a tight hasty sling might help keep the bolt handle away from your right index finger also.

Thank you for the many ideas.

Using a dremel I have started by gingerly sanding some of the area where the thumb cushion of the palm rests and as the thumb transverses the saddle. Very very little has been taken off but it already feels better as the thumbe lays across the ridge. Perhaps a little area will be epoxied tonight so that a mini-palm swell will start to form too. We'll see how things look by tomorrow. My hands are relatively small so that adding gripping materials is a solution that needs adjustment and compensation.

I need to epoxy the main action lug in any case before I test this rifle for accuracy. Needlessless to say, I would not expect an aftermarket drop-in stock to produce non-slip lug contact without epoxy bedding.

A day at the range has brought some interesting results, encouragement, and quite a few questions that need answering before taking the gun to Africa.

First of all, the new Boyds stock was able to solve the problem of letting the bolt smash into the trigger finger. Perhaps the longer length-of-pull helped. Or perhaps the sanding of the grip and the anti-slip clear epoxy paint helped. See picture:

The darker area to the right of the white strips shows some of the sanding.

On accuracy, it is possible that the load with 103 grains of H322 and the 450 grain GSC HV bullet will prove sufficient. Two shots were about 0.7".

Unfortunately, that load produced a sticky bolt lift, so something around 101 grains must be pursued.

However, the accuracy testing was stopped before it was completed. The new stock cracked when the 103 grain test was underway.


The picture shows a crack in the tang area. However, even more disconcerting was the crack at the main receiver lug retainer. See the following picture.

The light grey areas represent places where the epoxy bedding was opened up with a dremel to make for easier dismantling. They were not the problem. Notice the thin black crack line at the base of the lug retainer area. The crossbolt in the stock may have kept the stock together and prevented a more catastrophic cracking and rearward thrust of the barreled action.

Some explanation is in order. The main action lug was bedded but the barrel lug was not bedded. The idea was to check the accuracy of the action lug before bedding the barrel lug. Well, after only 14 shots the action-lug retainer area gave way, the tang area got smashed and cracked. So would the barrel lug have prevented that? Maybe. But I will need to check out more robust stock replacements.

When the bedding gave way, the magazine retainer was also hit and smashed backwards. See the following picture, where the front washer reinforcement was openned up and the action knocked the lip of the magazine inside of itself. See picture:


Under the heavy recoil the follower is also slamming forward and smashing a corner off of the front edge. See following picture:

The white line shows the end of the follower unit. The bend/smash/tip-removal is the top conrner in the picture.

So what can protect the follower?
How can the magazine be better protected?

On the positive side of today's testing, the velocity with H322 ranged from 2604fps at 101 grains of powder to 2667fps at 103 grains of powder. HOWEVER, the first signs of high pressure showed up at 103 grains of H322. The bolt became distinctly more difficult to open up after firing a shot.At the moment I am attributing this to pressure, since I don't see how cracking the stock would affect sticky-bolt pressure signs. This tells me that the cartridge may be limited to about 6800 foot-pounds as a practical limit. Or perhaps retesting will show something different.

Meanwhile I also need to get a new front action screw since the current screw bent during the recoil that cracked the stock. Without the screw, I can't even put on the old Hogue stock, were I willing to figure out how to fire that stock without pain on the trigger finger. (By the way, the recoil of todays loads was delightful since the trigger finger was not being hit.)

416Tanzan,

Now you have your "Bonafides" from the "School of Train Wrecks."
Welcome to the club.
I have salvaged a laminate stock that was only cracked at the tang by poor tang relief, but I think you need to start over with a new stock.
Make sure it is completely bedded at both recoil lugs and crossbolted both fore and aft of magazine box, with exposed or hidden crossbolts as possible.
The front pillar on a Ruger is tricky.
However, that Hogue stock has some aluminum pillars in it, for both front and rear of action.
I would cannibalize the Hogue for those pillars,
and put them in another Boyds stock (with checkering this time) ...
Or get a McMillan!

Front of follower battering?
Maybe it had something to do with the catastrophic fail, it was one of the cars in the trainwreck?

Line the inside front of the magazine box with a thin pad of rubber glued in, like a strip of inner tube?
CZ-USA had a rubber pad like that on their first-edition .505 Gibbs. I have one of those.
Temporary fix.

So you need some new parts from Brownells (and Boyds or McMillan), what?


At least you have some good load data there. Good work!
I'll be using your load data in the 500 Bateleur.
BTW, I quit at 100.0 grains of H322 in the 12.7x68 "49-10" with .500/430-gr CEB Copper MTH, for 2661 fps in a 24" barrel.

That is good velocity in your 22" barrel:

A 500 AR Nyati Maximum Load:

Bullet Wt.(gr): 450 (GSC HV)
Powder Type: H322 Extreme
Charge(gr): 102.0
Muzzle Vel.(fps): 2645
K.E.(ft-lbs): 6993
Barrel Length (in): 22.0

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=856

500 AR Nyati ................................................................................................................................................................12.7x68mm "49-10"



Of course you will get even higher KE by using heavier bullets with the same H322 Extreme powder of lesser charge, if foot-pounds are important.

I predict something like 98 grains of H322 will give you well over 7000 ft-lbs with a 500-grain brass solid.

Keep up the good work!

thank you, RIP for many pointers. I've got more than one question.

Probably for starters, I've never done a pillar bedding and wonder about its need on a solid wood or composite stock. The Hogue, of course, is a different kettle of fish and needs those pillars to stabilize an otherwise mushy platform. do I need pillars? And Midway offers Ruger pillars for $13. Wouldn't it be easier to order new ones than to try and canabalize old ones?

On overall energy, I have no desire, per se, to have 7000 ftlbs. I just calculate these energy levels so that I can guestimate the potential velocities for all of the new bullet weights that keep coming out. I am surprised at the pressure signs with the GSC 450 grain HV, .510". The driving bands are supposed to reduce pressures so I am surprised to see pressure signs before the cartridge reached or went over 7000-7200 ftlbs. Besides the heavy bolt lift, the several letters in the lettering on the casehead had a slightly brighter outline, but not like flow into an extrator groove. That is why I asked myself if the stock cracking could have been related somehow? Maybe the back of the stock was pressing on the bolt handle? I didn't check anything at first. However, both shots of 103 grain H322 had heavy bolt lift. Here are two shots of the same four caseheads.


Left to right in both pictures are the H322 101 grain, 102 grain, 103 grain and 103 grain. The 102 grain has a little brightness in the "Q" of "Quality" with some slide marks longer than the extractor groove width. In both 103's the "500" has a couple of thin lines that radiate toward the "Acc". One can also notice that the primers are pristine, rounded and without any high pressure signs. On an irrelevant note, the blacking in the 'T' and 'RT' is my way of marking that the case was previously fired once or twice before the present firing. However, examination of the bolt face reveals some tiny micro scratches that might explain this. See pic.

Scratches are the shadow and in shadow of bolt lug to left of extractor groove. Needs to be imagined as much as seen in this poor photo.

In any case, I am happy with hunting at 2550-2600fps, and 6500-6700 ftlbs is fine. It's actually pretty close to the 6100-6200 ftlbs that my 416Rigbys generate. I'm willing to give up a little long range for more thump on an upclose buffalo. PS: I've not pursued the 570 grain TSX option because those bullets are .508" diameter and I have my doubts on potential accuracy. The 450 grain GSC HV feels very nice in the hand and has sleek looks.

The ironic part about the two shots of H322 103grains that led to the cracked stock is that they printed next to each other as a seeming tight group. That may be a pure accident but it would be nice to think that a stiff stock would be able to correct the wanderings of the Hogue. the only other group of the day was an H335 110 grain with the CEB 350 gn Safari Lever .510". It printed close to three inches so was rather disappointing. Other shots were all "ladder" velocity and safety rounds.

All in all, the Boyds was very comfortable to shoot. The Limbsaver slip-on was a great length after the 1/2" hard rubber but was removed. And the trigger finger was 'happy, happy'. If I need to do a bunch of bedding work myself, then another Boyd's might still be the answer, properly checkered. Another possibility would be the Accurate Innovations with the aluminum bedding chassis. I suppose that I would need to send the barreled action to them for proper bedding and everything would end up pricey pricey ($700-800?+) whether laminate or field grade.

A couple of more thoughts on a cracked stock affecting casehead markings and heavy bolt opening.

1. The action moved backwards, as is clear from the the following picture where the recoil lug area broke away and moved backwards about 1/32". See the the shadow crack about halfway up the block when looking from below. Perhaps the crossbolt prevented the whole block from moving so only the upper half cracked and moved.


2. The bold handle dented the opening in the stock for the bolt. That process of denting and force may have made the bolt tight for opening.

(The dent is a small vertical shape about 1/4" from the top.
Could it also have contributed to the bright lines on the cases when everything else was normal?

Brownells also carries the bedding pillars for the M77 stock, they're $12.95...

I went the "Accurate Innovations" way... and I dont regret my choice.. No bedding needed - just barreled action thrown into the stock/bedding block and go shooting.. So far no problems.. Michael have had zero issues wuth his 500 MDMs as far as I remember .. A bit more pricey - yes, but it works... And by the way - I have no recoil-lug on the barrel of my 500 AccRel (like on all my other rifles above 375 caliber).. - that alu bedding block of the AI stocks works nicely...

Thanks, Capo.
They also carry the front mounting screw that I need to replace. $4 plus $8 shipping. It bent when the stock gave way.

By the way, on the suspected high-pressure load,
the 103 grain load of H322 with the 450 gn GSC HV .510" clocked 2668fps, which is 7111 ftlbs. That should have been within normal pressure margins and not over max. Then again, that is a lot of ftlbs and maybe that bullet/powder/barrel combination had already passed max?
All I want is to be able to destroy a golf ball at 100 yards. 6500 ftlbs is enough if it is accurate.

Buffalo--

what options did you get?
what did it cost?

I dont remember exact cost - I choosed the "laminate pepper" stock.. Have worked nicely..

Just did a test of a few 570 grs Barned Banded Solids (570 grs) - vel of 2380 fps - no shank-abrading issues like in the 1,25" throated version earlier - they penetrated very straight and to a depth of an impressive 82"... As far as I remember Michael458 also tested the 570grs Barnes Banded to be one of the "deepest divers" he ever tested, so results correspond quite well...

But the best penetrator of all is the new design North Fork FPS in .416" caliber / 430 grs weight. In my 416 Wby I drove it to 2710 fps and it penetrated to 95" ...... !!!!
One more thing to test is the 750 grs .585" CEB BBW#13 solid at around 2600 fps.. Will not be today though...

Nice.

Yes, I can see working on extreme penetration for hunting elephant.

for buffalo and a single bullet, I am thinking that the 450 GSC HV will be about perfect. When I test different bullet weights it seems that my rifle shoots to significantly different heights, so I will need to sight-in for one. For my solid, the closest weight appears to be the GSC 510 grain in .510". I will need to find a load that prints within an inch of the 450 grain. The CEB bullets with a tip are light for an 'all-around' bullet at 350 grains. Yes they will work, but I would prefer the extra weight and extra target-delivery BC of the GSC for buffalo. I will still retest the CEB 350 when I get a new stock on the rifle.

It looks like AccInnovations will cost four times over a Boyds. But that aluminum chassis sounds quite tempting after this week's events.

Swept back bolt handles look very smart but just about every big bore that I have shot, with a swept back bolt handle, bruised my finger. I turn the handle forwards so that it is pointing down when closed, instead of at my finger joint. It is a simple fix and one that any gunsmith can do.

Has any tried the AccInnovations Bamboo stocks with the heavy hitters?

Or are they too light for balance on a 500 22" barrel? (My new barrel is .825" at muzzle.)

Tanz,

I've read that the Bamboo laminate stocks are very strong, I don't recollect how light they are but I think they're fairly close in weight to a non-laminate walnut stock. And it shouldn't be a big problem to add just enough weight to the butt stock to balance at the forward latch pin.

I recommend that you phone AI and pose the questions to them.

The Bamboo Acc Innovation looks like a great stock but it would cost $1000 to fit and checker.

On the otherhand, Boyd's would cost $150 plus using a Limbsaver recoil pad and maybe a mercury reducer that I have available. But the burden of getting the work done right would be on me of course.

On that last point I've been thinking about securely bedding a Boyd's stock. The previous stock broke away in the top half of the wood block behind the front lug. This is illustrated in the picture below, looking up through the magazine well and seeing the 1/32" crack rearward extenion as a shadow halfway up that wooden bridge-block:



So here is my plan:

The wood block already has a crossbolt in the Boyd's stock, but that bolt sits in that wood block below the stress level of the short Ruger recoil lug. What is needed is to strengthen the top part of that wooden block.

So I'm thinking that a trough needs to be cut across the top of the wooden block that extends into the sides of the stock. Then a 3/16" threaded bolt (probably about 2" to 1 3/4" long to fit into both sides) can be epoxied (Devcon steeled) in place. The main question would be how far back to place this trough from the lug face? Should the woodblock be completely epoxied from the lug to this crossbolt or should some laminate wood material also separate the lug face from the crossbolt?

Any advice?

PS: One item that I will change in the bedding will be to put a piece of electrical tape on the edge and bottom of the front lug so that no vectored stress will be added to reward recoil. I'll do something similar to the forearm barrel lug, too.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Has any tried the AccInnovations Bamboo stocks with the heavy hitters?

Or are they too light for balance on a 500 22" barrel? (My new barrel is .825" at muzzle.)

Michael uses AI stocks on all his rifles including the 500 MDM and it balances just fine with barrel length from 19" through 21" so a 22" barrel should be no issue. Also, the 500 MDM has almost identical powder capacity to the 500 AccRel so that should quality as a heavy hitter - especially with the 550gr CEB BBW#13 FN Solid bullets that Michael has Dan make (then found out he didn't need anything heavier than a 500gr BBW#13 for elephant.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
The Bamboo Acc Innovation looks like a great stock but it would cost $1000 to fit and checker.

On the otherhand, Boyd's would cost $150 plus using a Limbsaver recoil pad and maybe a mercury reducer that I have available. But the burden of getting the work done right would be on me of course.

Any advice?

RIP should be able to give you good advice on reinforcing the stock. Jeffe as well especially for a Ruger stock.

Regarding the AI stock - sounds like a good price for the technically challenged individual or someone without the time to perform the work themselves. For the price you get a fully finished stock with a full-length aluminum bedding block ready to install your barreled action and go shoot. Michael hasn't been able to break one yet and with the sharp recoil impulse of his short barreled light weight .500 caliber rifles and if anyone could it would be him...

quote:

or someone without the time to perform the work themselves.

Thanks, this is indeed one of the variables being weighed. It is looking like I won't have time to get the rifle properly tested and loaded for a hunt this year, and if so, then extra time will be created for trying the inexpensive option first.

i can send you my hogue... its not the bedding block one... it does bend but its also seen hundreds of top chart loads ...

i have zero trouble with the ruger wood stocks... double cross bolts, pin down the wrist, marine tex GREY bedding compound... never use the MT white -- it has plasticizers....

bed the action, let that sit 6-8 hours, then bed the barrel lug ... then relieve the rear tang .050 . should not touch anything...

bed the bottom metal.. at least the front angled part... switch the front screw to a hex drive caphead... you can get marine tex and screws from mcmaster carr

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
i can send you my hogue... its not the bedding block one... it does bend but its also seen hundreds of top chart loads ...

i have zero trouble with the ruger wood stocks... double cross bolts, pin down the wrist, marine tex GREY bedding compound... never use the MT white -- it has plasticizers....

bed the action, let that sit 6-8 hours, then bed the barrel lug ... then relieve the rear tang .050 . should not touch anything...

bed the bottom metal.. at least the front angled part... switch the front screw to a hex drive caphead... you can get marine tex and screws from mcmaster carr

Thank you, Jeffe, for the offer of the Hogue and good pieces of advice.

My Hogue stock still works, too.
Maybe with putting my little pinky down below the pistol grip I can learn how to shoot the Ruger without getting the trigger finger bruised.
For testing and practice with my Hogue, I might be able to lengthen the short-ish Hogue LOP by removing the Hogue recoil pad and putting a spacer or 1/2" pad inside the Limbsave 1" slip-on. That should be good for 1/4" or 1/2" extra LOP. My next window for testing will be end of Oct.

I've previously given my Hogue a robust barrel-lug bedding (threaded steel rods reinforcing each Hogue stabilizing square lengthwise), it has been holding up well, but no additional bedding on the action lug/pillar. I was afraid to mess with potential grip of Devcon Plastic Steel and the plastic-ish stock around the recoillug pillar.

On bedding the bottom metal pieces, I was thinking that positioning the pieces so that the magazine release latch works smoothly would be a good thing.

It is also nice to know that other mounting screws are good to use on the Ruger. Would you happen to know the correct size?

[[By memory and guess, I was thinking that the front Ruger screw was about 7/8"--1" long, plus head, 1/4" diameter, 28? threading, and about 1/2" length no-thread shoulder. (Is the shoulder also 1/4" diameter, or is/was it a larger shoulder from the thread diameter?)]]
Do you have easy access to that screw info?

The big remaining questions for bedding a laminate Boyd's stock would be how much of the recoil-lug bridge material to remove when bedding?
And whether or not to clamp down the action with the lug screw or leave the screw free floating without the bottom metal hinge during the bedding and curing of the epoxy? Potentially, I could bed the forearm barrel-lug first and then use the rear action acrew and barrel-lug bedding with the barrel taped in place in order to bed a tension-free action-lug area. Afterwards, with a tension-free action lug and barrel-lug, I could even add a pressure point at the muzzle-end of the forearm, perhaps hanging a 3-lb weight on the barrel while the barreled action is hanging upside down. Such barrel pressure would mean that the actionlug screw would end up resisting that pressure. (The Ruger has so little area behind and along the magazine that I would ensure that erything between the action-lug wood bridge and the rear-action screw is free floated. The little wood platform on the rear-action screw would be left, of course, in order to stabilize all of the bedding processes. The tang will also be cut back 0.05" if not already cleared.) All of this work would be done this coming Oct/Nov. Things move slowly for me and when dealing with a wildcat.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

The big remaining questions for bedding a laminate Boyd's stock would be how much of the recoil-lug bridge material to remove when bedding?

416Tanzan: You can remove it all if you rebuild it wirh steel allthread crossbolts and epoxy.
I was passing through Montana, on a drive to Alaska and stopped at a gunshow in Billings. For $150 I bought a slightly used Brown Precision stock meant for a short action M70. What a find! Already painted and had recoil pad and molded-in checkering.
I converted it to a long action M70 with a hacksaw and Dremel tool, files and chisels.
I extended the magazine well forward by cutting out the "bridge" between the magazine well and the primary action recoil lug recess.
Then I drilled through the side walls of the stock and inserted a 3/8" diameter allthread at the usual location side-to-side ahead of the newly lengthened magazine well, and epoxied it in place.
Then I laid in a 1/4" crossbolt ahead of and higher than the first.
Then I finished with a 1/8" diameter all thread laid in very close to, behind the primary action recoil lug, very close to the bottom side of the action. All covered and hidden by epoxy bedding. Acraglass, IIRC.
The external surfaces and some internals were covered with and built up with JB Weld.
The external JB Weld is my textured-camo pattern, and it hides where I drilled through the sides of the stock, fore and aft of the new magazine well:
.308WCF stock became a 404 Jeffery stock, and it is accurate.



And whether or not to clamp down the action with the lug screw or leave the screw free floating without the bottom metal hinge during the bedding and curing of the epoxy? Potentially, I could bed the forearm barrel-lug first and then use the rear action acrew and barrel-lug bedding with the barrel taped in place in order to bed a tension-free action-lug area. Afterwards, with a tension-free action lug and barrel-lug, I could even add a pressure point at the muzzle-end of the forearm, perhaps hanging a 3-lb weight on the barrel while the barreled action is hanging upside down. Such barrel pressure would mean that the actionlug screw would end up resisting that pressure. (The Ruger has so little area behind and along the magazine that I would ensure that erything between the action-lug wood bridge and the rear-action screw is free floated. The little wood platform on the rear-action screw would be left, of course, in order to stabilize all of the bedding processes. The tang will also be cut back 0.05" if not already cleared.) All of this work would be done this coming Oct/Nov. Things move slowly for me and when dealing with a wildcat.

I like to bed the primary (action) recoil lug and the secondary (barrel) recoil lug and the barrel between the two with full contact in one step (crossbolt behind the barrel lug too, of course), along with a dab of bedding on top of the rear pillar too,
with stock in a paddeded vise and sandbags resting on top of the barreled action to get overflow of epoxy.
Do the bottom metal and any cosmetic work subsequently.
Any up-pressure on the free-floated barrel (muzzleward of the barrel lug) can be done as you say with upside-down, horizontal rifle and weight hung from barrel, and a little dab of epoxy inside the barrel channel at forend tip,
only if still looking for accuracy improvement.

Thank you RIP, that's very encouraging.

Four threaded bolts sound about right for a 500 AR Nyati,
one that comes with Boyds,
one up higher in the bridge material,
and one on the muzzle-side of the lug (?), but not engaging the lug. Maybe even on the muzzle-side of the 'chamber-bridge material'.
then a fourth to reinforce the barrel lug, not to mention something longitudinal from that barrel-lug crossbolt to the wooden chamber-bridge material. That puppy is not gonna move.

My reasoning for a pressure pad at the end of the foreend is that rifles with bedding along the breech/chamber end of the barrel tend to string a little bit vertically with stiff barrels. We'll just wait and see what happens. The goal for the 500 is to be within a 1/2" accuracy to the 1MOA 416Rigbys. I would not feel confident hunting with a 2 to 4 MOA rifle beyond 100 yards.

finally, with a laminate, I am thinking that a small all-thread horizontal about an inch behind the rear screw (just behind/under tang tip) would help with the 'split cracking' more than a longitudinal allthread.

And for ballast to all the forearm bedding and .825" muzzle, an 8 oz mercury tube inside the butt pad would probably be great. If the rifle ends up 10-10.5 pounds with scope, so be it. Just trying to get my ducks lined up for the next attempt. And I'll need to be in condition to carry a rifle up and down high mountains around the equator.

Your improvisation is contagious. That tacky non-slip spray felt very good on the last Boyd's before it cracked. It may not be necessary this time because of the laser-checkering option.

Yes! Do all the above and you won't need a new stock afterall.
Paint it or "texture-camoflage" it with epoxy when you are done,
and you too will have a priceless work of art.
Look closely below and you will see the peak of Kilimanjaro rising from near the equator in East Africa.