quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
It has nothing to do with the stock.Getting a rifle extremely hot will wear down the rifling before your eyes and naturally change POI.

Shootaway

You're 50% right.

If your POI is changing before your eyes as the rifle gets hotter it is not a rifling wearing off, but a material stress in the barrel itself.

Take the barrel off, strip it all of the things that are on it and have it TWICE stress relieved in a VACUUM furnace.

510 deg. Celsius or 950 deg. Fahrenheit for 2 hours, let it cool slowly to the room temperature and repeat it again.

The best bet would be to contact professional heatreaters who do specialize in long shafts heatreatment.

Gert

Google "Pejsa Ballistic Computer" download it for free and use it as you need.

Pyzda

If Shootaway's writing style were a bit different, and he were to write, "kiss, find pressure, and rock on" I could understand where he was coming from.

Putting three shots in bullseye at 100m is not great if the other six make the target look like it was hit with a shotgun.
Oh, Please refrain from reminding us how your barrel wears after getting extremely hot..

quote:

Originally posted by Gert Odendaal:

... please be so kind as to excuse me from this forum.

Goodbye, we'll miss you........

Here is a 100yd target I shot today offhand.Ignore the two holes to the right and left of the bullseye and the ones taped.
Here we see a a large group to the right of the target.This is about the same size the rifle groups off the bench.
[URL= ]100yds offhand[/URL]
In the second picture we see a single shot fired offhand at 50yds.It does not show the same POI as the group at 100yds.It is a little to the right-about an inch.The rifle groups less than an inch at 50yds
I just thought I would share this with you.
[URL= ]50yds offhand[/URL]

The first shots fired offhand tend to go high and one must be very careful especially at 100yds.You can see them here around the top right square of the first target.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Here is a 100yd target I shot today offhand...This is about the same size the rifle groups off the bench.

Yes...please teach us to shoot like that...

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
The first shots fired offhand tend to go high and one must be very careful especially at 100yds.You can see them here around the top right square of the first target.

Shootaway,
You should change your handle to blast away.
You shooting is atrocious. I mean laughable. In the military services all they would qualify you for is a cook. Your understanding of iron sight use is non-existant. My grandmother knew more about iron sight shooting than you do.

You need to buy an iron sight 22 LR and burn up about 10 bricks of ammo. Then come back because all you are doing now is causing people to laugh at you. I am not saying this to be nasty. It is the truth.

Just to be clear you are saying the rifle shoots an approximate 6"-7" groups off hand or from the bench at 100yds, correct?

quote:

Originally posted by nilgi:
Just to be clear you are saying the rifle shoots an approximate 6"-7" groups off hand or from the bench at 100yds, correct?

yes maybe 4 or 5. It might do better with better sights or with a scope.

Shootaway,
You do not seem to know how well your rifle will shoot. I personally witnessed a young woman, many years ago, shoot prone iron sight practice groups with an .22 LR Anschutz match rifle at 100 yards. Her 10 shot groups hovered around 1".
I don't know your shooting history but you seem to have started with a big bore and skipped the real rifles that you should learn to shoot with.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Here is a 100yd target I shot today offhand.Ignore the two holes to the right and left of the bullseye and the ones taped.
Here we see a a large group to the right of the target.This is about the same size the rifle groups off the bench.
[URL= ]100yds offhand[/URL]
In the second picture we see a single shot fired offhand at 50yds.It does not show the same POI as the group at 100yds.It is a little to the right-about an inch.The rifle groups less than an inch at 50yds
I just thought I would share this with you.
[URL= ]50yds offhand[/URL]

If I couldn't shoot any better than that, I think I'd make sure all my shots were within 50 yards!

You do provide a certain amount of ... entertainment George! Thanks for the laughs!

shootaway, try a 3/4 choke in that shotgun or stop using those skeet cartridges, I think you will then see those shot patterns tighten up a little

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
My grandmother knew more about iron sight shooting than you do.

Here is a target that I shot today.It was shot at 100yds offhand.You can see the fouling causing some bullets to drop low on the target.Usually after 30rds groups open up and drop low.The group was not tight to begin with.This was caused either by my cases needing trimming,a barrel that was partially cleaned the last time.This is snap shooting a 40 round string in fading light.I am still proud of it and I think it deserves to be shared!
[URL= ]100yds offhand[/URL]

When I was a kid my father always maintained that decent field accuracy required the ability to quickly hit an 8-inch paper plate offhand with every shot. I still spend a significant amount of my practice time shooting at that size gong at that range with my hunting rifles, and if I fail the standard I will want to know why.

Your group looks like about 14 or 15 inches, and yet you always pontificate about the vast experience and ability you possess.

Of course, I'm not taking into account here the fact that the bore was dirty, the rifling was worn, the light was bad, the wind was wrong, the sun was in your eyes, the planets were misaligned, your cases needed trimming, your underwear was twisted, your shoes were too tight, blah, blah, blah...

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts...

quote:

Originally posted by jwm:
When I was a kid my father always maintained that decent field accuracy required the ability to quickly hit an 8-inch paper plate offhand with every shot. I still spend a significant amount of my practice time shooting at that size gong at that range with my hunting rifles, and if I fail the standard I will want to know why.

Your group looks like about 14 or 15 inches, and yet you always pontificate about the vast experience and ability you possess.

Of course, I'm not taking into account here the fact that the bore was dirty, the rifling was worn, the light was bad, the wind was wrong, the sun was in your eyes, the planets were misaligned, your cases needed trimming, your underwear was twisted, your shoes were too tight, blah, blah, blah...

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts...

jwm,I can show you a target with everything in the right place if that was my goal.What I am showing you is real life.I can also read my target like a book and that may come across to you as some kind of excuse but I do not care.

quote:

Originally posted by jwm:
When I was a kid my father always maintained that decent field accuracy required the ability to quickly hit an 8-inch paper plate offhand with every shot. I still spend a significant amount of my practice time shooting at that size gong at that range with my hunting rifles, and if I fail the standard I will want to know why.

Your group looks like about 14 or 15 inches, and yet you always pontificate about the vast experience and ability you possess.

Of course, I'm not taking into account here the fact that the bore was dirty, the rifling was worn, the light was bad, the wind was wrong, the sun was in your eyes, the planets were misaligned, your cases needed trimming, your underwear was twisted, your shoes were too tight, blah, blah, blah...

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts...

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
jwm,I can show you a target with everything in the right place if that was my goal.What I am showing you is real life.I can also read my target like a book and that may come across to you as some kind of excuse but I do not care.

Shootaway

I'd concentrate on

1. Accuracy over speed - ie Shoot off hand
yes, but not snap shooting until you have Off hand down pat.

2. As someone else said, do it with a .22 first
and leave the bigger cals for later.

3. Why do it at 100 yards when you haven't got
25 or 50 yards sorted yet in terms of technique,
accuracy et al.

It takes time so take the time.

Fast AND accurate snap shooting comes
later, once you have the basics sorted.


Also, what field / game shooting do you do
- if any and if you do, what position do you
shoot from mostly ?
Reason for asking is if you don't shoot
off hand / snap at game very often,
what is the need to practice it ?

Why not practice standing unsupported
or standing supported ?

And FYI, I am not good on target shooting sessions because I get bored but the small
amount of practice on MULTIPLE occasions
all added up to equal a couple of long
sessions.

505G,I once heard someone say something about people like you and when you talk to women.They said as soon as 505G opens his mouth the girls runs away!

Wyatt Earp: Take your time. It's important to draw fast and get off the first shot, but it's much more important to have your bullet go where you want it to go.



Think about it George----

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Here is a target that I shot today.It was shot at 100yds offhand.You can see the fouling causing some bullets to drop low on the target.Usually after 30rds groups open up and drop low.The group was not tight to begin with.This was caused either by my cases needing trimming,a barrel that was partially cleaned the last time.This is snap shooting a 40 round string in fading light.I am still proud of it and I think it deserves to be shared!
[URL= ]100yds offhand[/URL]

Seems like awfully large shot for a turkey gun! Them birds a whole lot bigger up north than our Rio Grande Gobblers here in Texas?

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Wyatt Earp: Take your time. It's important to draw fast and get off the first shot, but it's much more important to have your bullet go where you want it to go.
Think about it George----

Na, Wyatt works on the philosophy of while their
is lead in the air their is hope


Although in his case I think "Hope" has gone
the same way as "Faith" and "Charity".

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Wyatt Earp: Take your time. It's important to draw fast and get off the first shot, but it's much more important to have your bullet go where you want it to go.



Think about it George----

At the rifle range shootaway does not follow the philosophy of Wyatt Earp, but rather that of his buddy Doc Holiday: "In vino veritas est."

Who is Holiday another Doc?
I stopped and checked out the target after the first few rounds and noticed that again they had the highest point of impact.I think that has to do with the muscles not being relaxed enough to properly align the sights with the eye.It seems that the rifle is not coming up high enough or the head is not going down low enough.

And / or you are changing the sight picture during your 40 shots.

Also there is a sight adjustment to be made for shooting offhand compared to the bench.How much depends on the trigger pull weight.I find that the rifle should be sighted three inches to the left,off the bench at 100yds for 100yds offhand shooting.I used to adjust my 458 Lott 4 inches to the left and 4 inches low to compensate for 100yds offhand shooting.Since I would not shoot many rds with the Lott it gave me the impression that time that all my bullets would strike high.
Here is a past 100yds sighting in target for 100yds offhand shooting.Shooting offhand at 100yds would put me in the orange circle.
[URL= ]100yds off the bench(4 inches low and 4 inches left[/URL]
and another
[URL= ]b[/URL]
another
[URL= ]c[/URL]

You have some serious issues to sort out.


It's not the gun shooting badly, it's you.

Canting, grabbing, you need to sort out your technique.

quote:

I find that the rifle should be sighted three inches to the left,off the bench at 100yds for 100yds offhand shooting.

There is a serious analytical shortfall here that shooting a .22 might help. You have to learn to shoot with the rifle sighted in. All of this compensation stuff is voodoo.

Reading these threads of yours reminds me somewhat of watching old Three Stooges episodes. As a kid, you would see the same ones rehashing the same old plot lines and the same old gags over and over, and you laughed each and every time simply because they are so insanely stupid that you couldn't help yourself. Then one day you suddenly realize "Holy Crap! This has suddenly stopped being funny and is now turning tedious."

I've gotta change the channel. My apologies for throwing the hook here, shootaway. I took your bait and ran with it but I have to believe now that you are either an evil genius stringing us along as some sort of sociological experiment, sitting in your secret lab and rubbing your hands together with a wicked grin on your face...OR that you are just plain nuts.

Either way...give that large thumbscrew on the back of your shooting helmet another crank or two (Loctite if necessary) and carry on!

John

I guess the "good" news is that if the center large orange circle is the "vitals" there are only 24 wounded animals running around......

George,

I suggest that you always have a set of shooting sticks handy when hunting. If anyone can not do better than the target photo you posted shows at 100 yards off hand, he isn't qualified to shoot game off hand.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
You have some serious issues to sort out.


It's not the gun shooting badly, it's you.

Canting, grabbing, you need to sort out your technique.

Absolutely correct, the target is a "shotgun blast".

All what I can read from it, it is not a bad rifle, but rather a work of a mentally exhausted shooter.

Pyzda

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Here is a 100yd target I shot today offhand.Ignore the two holes to the right and left of the bullseye and the ones taped.
Here we see a a large group to the right of the target.This is about the same size the rifle groups off the bench.
[URL= ]100yds offhand[/URL]
In the second picture we see a single shot fired offhand at 50yds.It does not show the same POI as the group at 100yds.It is a little to the right-about an inch.The rifle groups less than an inch at 50yds
I just thought I would share this with you.
[URL= ]50yds offhand[/URL]

I have been following this thread,and I do not mean to be offensive in any way. However, if this is the kind of accuracy your rifle produses, this may be the reason you are getting the results that you claim.
I shoot quite a bit, and all of my rifles will shoot pretty close from 50-100 yards. Nowhere near the differences you say you are getting.
My offhand handgun groups are much better than your off the bench rifle groups.
That said, I think it may be your rifle, or . . . . . . . .

quote:

Originally posted by Pyzda:

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
You have some serious issues to sort out.
It's not the gun shooting badly, it's you.
Canting, grabbing, you need to sort out your technique.

Absolutely correct, the target is a "shotgun blast".

All what I can read from it, it is not a bad rifle, but rather a work of a mentally exhausted shooter.

Pyzda

Maybe even "speed over accuracy" ?

The other thing it could be is flinch induced ?

I wasn't clear enough in my first post,
by "grabbing" I meant snatching at the
trigger.

I think I have finally figured this out! George is just using the same technique that Paul Newman used in The Hustler and Tom Cruise used in The Color of Money. He posts a bunch of targets suggesting that he cannot shoot worth a sh*t. Then he shows up at one of the big bore shoots, gets some some folks to open their billfolds and the next thing you know he is off on a buffalo hunt paid for with the winnings. That must be what is going on, although it pains me greatly to compare George to Paul Newman and Tom Cruise. I can offer no other plausible explanation.

All kidding aside. Check this thread out.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...851060681#1851060681

He asks for opinions. Everyone responds in good faith and gives him their opinion, then he rejects all the opinions out of hand with a terse response. When someone seems to acknowledge his response he flips. Then he flips again.

This is nothing more than an attention grabbing effort by someone that has serious inferiority issues at work. I regret that George will have to go on the ignore list I refuse to be played the fool any longer.

Good call, Mike. There is simply no logic involved in posts by the idiot from the north.

Unbelievable. Contrarian just to be contrarian. Nemo "The One" has spoken.