When sighting in a rifle with open sights,always sight in the 50yrd sight at 100yds.Sighting it in at 50yds is unreliable for shooting at 100yds.A one inch difference at 50yds will cause the rifle to shoot 1 foot below the bullseye at 100yds.Sighting in bullseye at 100yds will shoot about dead center at 50yds.

I have to respectfully disagree with the above statement. At what vel will a bullet only a inch low cause it to hit 12 inchs low at 100 .

I had to get down to 1000fps with a 500gr 458 bullet to come close to being 12 inch low at a 100 being 1 inch low at 50.

At 2000 fps and above bullets just don'tdrop that fast.

One inch differant at 50 for any thing above about 1400 fps is not going to have near 12 inchs of differants at 100

Now bad sight picture a flinch other human cause errors could.

IMO,it is not that the bullet is dropping it is how the sights have to be aligned.It seems their is a margin of error in sight alignment at 50 and there is a tremendous one at 25yds.Another reason to stay away from very short barrels.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
IMO,it is not that the bullet is dropping it is how the sights have to be aligned.It seems their is a margin of error in sight alignment at 50 and there is a tremendous one at 25yds.Another reason to stay away from very short barrels.

Sounds more like a shooter problem. I know that as my eyes got older.

The harder it is to use open sights accurately.

I find that my 7.5 inch barreled redhawk allows me a better sight picture then my 4 inch barreled redhawk.

Barrel length and what is the best for sight picture vari from one shooter to the next.

Nothing to do with the guns just what is good for my eyes.

Shootaway are you getting older if your not please let the rest of us know how to stop it.

Even in my "poor man's double rifle" (12ga SxS slug gun) I don't have that much of a problem. In my Baikal .45-70 double rifle that doesn't happen. Methinks there is another problem...

From what I understand you people have not shot enough with open sights to know this.

Sight alignment (front and rear) is far more important than the alignment of the sights on the target. The shorter the barrel the more important is the sight alignment. For self defense handguns, lasers are a fine solution. For hunting scopes trump irons in any rifle and a lot of shotgun situations. A rifle trick I recently read, and just tried is to buy a set of the drugstore reading glasses that (for you) sharpen
up the sights. Set the bows tight enough so you can wear them above your eyes and "shake them down" (sounds crazy but it works). The sights will now be sharp and if the Elk is slightly blurry, it won't mean a thing.
On handguns, I have lasers on everything as I am not a handgun hunter. Even with special handgun prescription glasses, I can shoot better with the lasers. According to the experts, most self defense events are so close that even in daylight a laser will work. If the bad guy is beyond laser range, it's time to exit the area or seek cover.
Yesterday, I was shooting my ancient (OR made) Kimber 45 ACP lower, Kimber 22 RF upper and crimson trace laser grips. @ 25 yards, shot a magazine full (10) at a 4" square target, two hands offhand. The laser "dot" was as big as the target, but every shot landed in the square and 6 would fit under a half dollar.
Back to rifles: "peep" sights with big holes and a fiber optic front sight also are the best combo for old eyes if you must use "irons".

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
IMO,it is not that the bullet is dropping it is how the sights have to be aligned.It seems their is a margin of error in sight alignment at 50 and there is a tremendous one at 25yds.Another reason to stay away from very short barrels.

Where do you come up with this stuff George? These comments you make have no logical explanation. Are you just seeking attention by "acting out"? It appears to be the case. I know your retort will be something along the lines of "you guys don't shoot open sights enough to know" but you should realize the company in which you are making these comments. Many of the guys here are very accomplished shooters, hunters, rifle builders, competitors, etc. with a lot of credentials backing their reputations. Just for an example, consider the guys on this forum who were SpecOps or even basic Marine / Army riflemen. Those guys have extensive training with open sights at what most of us would consider extreme range, even with a scope. I'm not sure how or where you acquired your weapons "education" but if you paid good money to learn what you know, I think I'd ask for my money back.

Shootaway, I love you, but how about learning some geometry... or physics... or just read some published material how sights and ballistic projectiles work in concert with each other.

I just ran the Winchester program for its .458 Win Mag 510 grain soft point bullet with a .5" above line of sight (iron sights) and if zeroed in at 50 yards, the drop at 100 is 1.9".

I will agree that the longer the barrel (if the sights are further apart), the apparent errors in sighting in are more "visible" to the shooter and he/she can hold finer, correct the error and more accuratly aim. That's just geometry. That said, most folks want a more managable rifle against dangerous game than a 28" or even a 26" one. It's a compromise, I reckon.

A good example is a T/C Contender pistol. Most can shoot better than 1" when using a scope, but the distance between sights on a 10" or even a 14" barrel are not sufficeint to get the true accuracy potential. One just can't see the errors that well with a short barrel and irons.

On DGR's I always sight in at 75 yards. Real range testing with real bullets has proven negligible difference at 100 yards or at 50 yards regarding point of impact.

quote:

Originally posted by 4-5-0:
On DGR's I always sight in at 75 yards. Real range testing with real bullets has proven negligible difference at 100 yards or at 50 yards regarding point of impact.

That is true,but there is such a thing as a real zero at 50 and a false zero.The only way to get the true zero is to check it at 100yds.I have learned this from sighting in open sight rifles at 50 and 100 numerous times.You have to know open sight rifles to understand.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
From what I understand you people have not shot enough with open sights to know this.

George,

You really crack me up. One never knows what you will come up with to provide us with a laugh. Keep it up as with all that is going on in the world we need to laugh once in awhile!

465H&H

Here is a question.If your rifle hits bullseye at 25yds will it follow its trajectory and hit where it is suppose to at 100 and 200yds? If you answered yes you do not know how opened sight rifles shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Here is a question.If your rifle hits bullseye at 25yds will it follow its trajectory and hit where it is suppose to at 100 and 200yds? If you answered yes you do not know how opened sight rifles shoot.

Yes it will and yes I do-

the problem is you don't.
The type of sight makes no difference to the ballistics of the bullet---------


besides--under your scenario i could use a 4 ft bullseye

It is impossible to sight in a open sight rifle at 25yds so it hits were its trajectory alone will make it hit at 100 or 200yds.With open sights you need to sight in as far out as 100yds so that trajectories alone will dictate POI.If you guys don't know this then you are far behind.

Open sight alignment has a margin of error.The same way you don't use the same number of clicks to adjust your scope for any given distance.

quote:

Originally posted by thirdbite:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Open sight alignment has a margin of error.The same way you don't use the same number of clicks to adjust your scope for any given distance.

So the problem is imperfect alighnment of sights and it always works out that if you shoot on target at 50 yd., you are 11" low at 100 yd.? Sounds like some kind of demonic influence to me.

It doesn`t always work out that way but there are many times when it does.That is why I say adjust sights at 100yds and you will get dead center at 50yds instead of the other way around.

quote:

That is true,but there is such a thing as a real zero at 50 and a false zero

The only time you would have a false zero is when the shooter dosen't have the sights aligned properly.

A shooter propblem not a rifle, bullet or sight propblem.

Unless something is broken.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

That is true,but there is such a thing as a real zero at 50 and a false zero

The only time you would have a false zero is when the shooter dosen't have the sights aligned properly.

A shooter propblem not a rifle, bullet or sight propblem.

Unless something is broken.

If I did not have the sights aligned properly I would not be able to hit anything.So count that out.

Oh shootaway man the winter must be coming very very long in Canada or did the beer go bad. I hear bad beer will cause it also.


We love yea but

quote:

If I did not have the sights aligned properly I would not be able to hit anything.So count that out

No you you just wouldn't hit where you think you should.

All this activity made me unignore shootaway.
Not even funny this time.
The only "true zero" here is shootaway's IQ score.
But that is not possible for a troll who can type, is it?
OK, he must not have tried too hard on the test, so it was a "false zero."
There, I got a smirk out of this anyway. Pathetic.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Oh shootaway man the winter must be coming very very long in Canada or did the beer go bad. I hear bad beer will cause it also.


We love yea but

I think you discovered the problem p Dog!

quote:

The only "true zero" here is shootaway's IQ score.

And we have another WINNER.....................

OK Georgi---You know all this exactly HOW????

You have your iron sighted big bore rifle, locked in tight at the BENCH, so as to remove ALL GEORGI error, and have a perfect load, and discovered this strange phenomena that sighted 1 inch low or hi, I forget, at 50 yds, then it is magically somehow 12 inches low at 100 yds. Now, do I have this correct??? Just so I understand.

Michael

I know it is tough talking to me and you wants things easy and all but...

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
OK Georgi---You know all this exactly HOW????

You have your iron sighted big bore rifle, locked in tight at the BENCH, so as to remove ALL GEORGI error, and have a perfect load, and discovered this strange phenomena that sighted 1 inch low or hi, I forget, at 50 yds, then it is magically somehow 12 inches low at 100 yds. Now, do I have this correct??? Just so I understand.

Michael

yes

Georgi

You were not shooting off hand were you???

Now, do tell me what load and bullet, caliber, cartridge, rifle, and sights you used for this grand
discovery?

M

Is there some way to integrate all the above emoticons into one single keystroke...it could be called the "shootaway special"!

off the bench but with the experience and skill I now have I get the same results off hand.This is something I observed a while ago but assigned it to some unknown error.Experience proved otherwise and it occurs with which ever open sight rifle I use from the lott to the 308.If there is a more advanced open sight shooter out there I am sure he will confirm this.

Can you go duplicate this and show us the targets? I can't figure any geometry of front and rear sights and any realistic bullet velocity that would result in what you have experienced.

Shootaway

How come when I shoot at animals from
zero to 150 yards with open sights,
I just place the bead on the animal
and fire away.

No hold over or under, no allowance
for bullet drop.

And in 99% of cases they fall over dead.


Sorry, your theory is wrong.

I also have seen it in shooters that have a flinch or can't see very well.

What more exspeariance do you need I alone have been shooting for more then 50 years tens and tens of thousands of rounds.

Others here more so.

quote:

If there is a more advanced open sight shooter out there I am sure he will confirm this.

I shoot most of my guns open sights,
both at targets and in the field.

.

I may regret this, but I feel like I,m missing something here. Tryna run a reasonable slow speed in a .458 Lott for the sake of arguement.
At 1900 fps, zeroed at 25 just for the fun of it, should be .8 inches high at 50 yds, .4 inches high at 100. I,ll admit to just running the number through a program without trying it.
Now with my crappy eyes that seem to get worse by the day and iron sights, to my utter shame and disgrace, odds are that any 1" groups at 100 yards would have to be considered a gift from God and not likely repeatable.
Usually the only thing I,m shooting at a distance with iron sights is a CZ 9.3x62 with stock open sights and a 20" barrel.At 100 yards, more of a pattern than a group. In my case I,d say thats about 98% the operater. My Dad on the other hand, over the seventy mark, could still probably do a lot better than me.
Thats all me, nothing to do with the trajectory of the bullet.
So I,m still tryna figure this one out. What am I missing?

I swear George must be up there laughing at us with all shit he comes up with to screw with us. And now if I understand his other thread correctly he is getting a double rifle. Can you imagine what he is going to come up with now that he is going to have two barrels? Good Hell it's going to be hilarious.....

quote:

What am I missing?

The skunky beer man the skunky beer.

With two barrels well they both shoot low or just one.

If that happens man what he going to do wow don't know if I would be able to handle it.

I guess you missed the "real world testing" part.I've never had much faith in ballistics tables other than a general refernce point which needs to be verified by shooting real bullets. As for zero, I try to find the actual holes in the target. I don't care about a false zero unless I'm shooting false buffalo.

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:
I swear George must be up there laughing at us with all shit he comes up with to screw with us. And now if I understand his other thread correctly he is getting a double rifle. Can you imagine what he is going to come up with now that he is going to have two barrels? Good Hell it's going to be hilarious.....

Yes, you Double Boys are in for some "Lessons" now! Now sit back and take notes................ I'd say at least, "Double" The BS...........