The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Lott Load DevelopmentGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I just got back from the range after shooting the Lott.I put a sand bag between the stock and my shoulder because I loaded around max on some loads and didn't know what to expect.It was a cloudy day just a few hours before another expected snow storm.The target at 100yds was barely visible and I wondered if I would hit it or not.This may sound strange but I was shooting with instict-like Star Wars.I will post the load and velocity of various single rds I fired.I was not shooting groups but used this session to determine velocities and make more sensible loads.After firing the rds and depriming,I checked the primer pocket of every round.I found the Reloader 7 loads to have stretched the primer pockets so much that I could insert a magnum primer with my finger without effort.I suspect Reloader 7 was the load also responsible for the loose primer pockets of my 458WM.I will no longer use Reloader 7 for ANY further shooting.All other loads had no noticeable change to their primer pockets.Here is todays data. [URL=  ]a[/URL][URL= ]b[/URL][URL= ]d[/URL][URL= ]e[/URL] mc:molly coated | ||
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 The only easy day is yesterday! | |||
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Had there been reloading manuals available to me with these bullets I would have started with lower charges.I started a couple of grains or more under max loads I got from various sources.Some proved to be a little to high.I do not recommend for anyone to reload this way. | |||
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How in the world do you get those 500 grain TSX bullets seated without distorting the case? My expanders on both my RCBS and Redding dies will not expand the case neck enough to allow these long suckers to seat easily without distorting the case. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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I have not used my Redding expander die yet,I started with new cases.Many of the loads were compressed but not so that they would distort the case.I give my case neck mouths a good chamfering inside and out before seating.Then,I rotate the case a little each time I pull down on the RCBS Rock Chucker press handle.When I feel that there is to much compression,I leave out the powder or seat to the second groove as I did for the W748 load. | |||
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I also had pressure problems with the R7 powder trying to get 2200 fps in a 21inch barreled rifle to the same degree you had, that the primer pockets were enlarged. Not good. "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
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One can only hope he continues with this Mensa-Society loading plan....jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Shootaway: Sure appreciate your detailed report. I have a No. 1 in .458 Lott on the way next week, along with brass, dies, some Remington 405-grain sissy bullets and a LimbSaver pad to install. I'll shy away from Re7. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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+1  NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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I hope you had a lead sled or some recoil reducing way to shoot these loads off of the bench. Just reading your excellent post makes my shoulder ache ...  Chuck Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Thanks everyone.Chuck,I had on layers of winter clothing and put a sand bag between my shoulder and stock.I didn't feel anything really,but by seeing how the rifle came back, I wouldn't want it any other way.Next time I shoot off the bench,I will reduce some loads and try without the bag. | |||
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Reloading guides are available online from many powder and bullet makers. You really need to hit the books before you end up really hurting yourself. Reloader 7? That is a fast burning powder I have never heard of anyone using with big bores. The problem with a fast burning powder is that in addition to total recoil it also increases the recoil velocity. Reloader 15 and up is what is generally used. Were you compressing loads with reloader 7? SCI Life Member DSC Life Member | |||
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All groups shot at 100yds with iron sights.Notice the size of the group of the group #6. | |||
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Shootaway, I think you're the only one I've heard of that accuracy tests off hand. Yes I know you said it was for pressure. I used a bipod even for that, so I could see how the elevation was effected. Keep up the good work.  | |||
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I'm with Jorge and the group here. Keep this up and you will take yourself out of the genepool rather quickly. Try about 82gr of 4350 for 2200fps and don't blow yourself up. Rich DRSS Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost... | |||
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Shootaway- You gonna die real soon! Can I have your guns assuming anything is left?-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Attaboy shootaway. Very amusing as usual. Great sport, eh? (Since when did reloading become a Special Olympics Sport?)  | |||
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I checked the primer pockets on the other rds I loaded and found the 4320 and W748 to be the tightest-less pressure(aproximately the same velocities).All the groups above were shot with the TSX bullet.Less felt recoil was from the Vit 133 load.With my coat and sweater on and shooting offhand, I found the Lott recoil to be about the same as the 458WM. | |||
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I use imr4320 in my 458 Lott 85grs Witch give me 2280 Fps with a 500gr bullet. With the speer solid I get 2320 FPS same load | |||
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Here is a link to my favor powder Burning rate chart. http://www.vihtavuori-lapua.com/pdfs/Burning-Rate-Chart.pdf I have a copy to this chart glued in all my reloading manuals because I can't remember the burn speed of powers I see in load recipes. The layout of this chart make it much clearer to see the relationship between the different brands of powders. Remember don't try to use this chart as a powder substitution guide, always try to follow official load manual recipes. | |||
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500 gr Hornady softs at 100 yds  | |||
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Nice group 450/400.The other day,while reloading my fired cases I discovered many more cases with loose primer pockets.Although I could not insert a unfired primer in with my finger,no effort was required to seat them with my Sinclair seating tool.The seating was to easy for comfort.From now on,I will stick to loads no greater than 2150 fps with the 500 grainer. CZLOTTFEEDINGJAMVIDEO | |||
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IMR4320 doesn't stick at all with my rounds. It just shoots and I eject them with no sticking. | |||
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None stick with my loads either.Not even those in excess of fps.The problem is the loose primer pockets.The video shows a dissapointing feeding problem on a new 1700 dollar rifle. | |||
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Pressures in the big bore cartridges,although they may be the same as medium caliber cartridges, last longer since the speed of the bullet is less.This is the reason,I think for the enlarged primer pockets. | |||
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I just checked my guard screws and they are all loose after last shooting.I gave the rifle a bedding job and will test groups again this Wednesday. | |||
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No, ... you are running too high pressure in your guns -- DELETE your load information from the top post, as they are DANGEROUSLY over pressure and YOU PERSONALLY will be liable if someone is injured from them. You hve been told this before, and only an internet hero would even begin to belive you STOP RELOADING .. if you are having that high f pressure when you are standing in snow, you are going to BLOW UP your gun in hot weather. Serious, STOP IT, you are a danger to yourself and others aint it funny that shoo thataway is the only person on the internet that thinks expanded pockets ARENT due to their POOR reloading technique. STOP RELOADING Shoot factory ammo see if the primers do the same they WONT, opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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and yes, unsafe people make me hot under the collar, as they should make everyone opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I deleted my high loads.If there are any other loads that make anyone feel uncomfortable let me know,I'll delete those too.I just did a search and found 37 pages under 458 Lott loads where there are many loads equal or higher than the ones I listed. | |||
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Why anyone would listen to him (his name which cannot be spoken) is beyond me. I have had "him" on ignore since about the 3rd post he ever wrote. It makes reading things like this kind of entertaining. It's like hearing only 1/2 of the phone conversation. Reading his posts is like watching the news...same bad ending all of the time with only the minor details varying. He's well on the way to the Darwin award. He might even be the first one to win it twice!  _______________________________  | |||
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You have made some errors here in the past.I hope your loads and cartridge design aren't hot enough to bring you trouble. | |||
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Your posts suck and are not worth reading. | |||
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Shootaway, don't be discouraged by a little flack. Back way off and work back up. At least you're posting on here looking for help. We all started somewhere. You useing shooting glasses? | |||
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"We all started somewhere" Could of fooled me | |||
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there are old reloaders and bold reloaders... and I have been reloading a long time! -- And have told you SEVERAL times that you are over pressure, and several others have as well. You have ignored those comments. You are WAY over pressure, and we have tried to tell you this. LISTEN UP - if you can't get at least 5 reloadings, you are WAY over pressure opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I agree that I am over pressure.I said so in one of the posts above.I have in NO WAY denied that.I reached this conclusion from my load tests performed above.What in the world makes you think I ignored that? Are you drunk? | |||
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because you are still seriuously overloading cases, when told THREE months ago to not do so. Perhaps this exchange, where you think nothing of being seriously over pressure. https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=111103977#111103977
You tell me if this sounds like "oh, i'll back off a couple grains" opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I was load testing for my 458WM and kept most loads below 2150 fps.I had only one load go up to 2180.All of my initial loads started below 2100fps and most were below 2000fps.I discovered some loads resulted in large primer pockets.I said "so what" in that I was thinking of not reusing the cases and since I had not experienced a sticky bolt might consider such a load as my hunting load.I was dissapointed that I could not use the cases again for reloading and that I had a pressure problem.These loads were shot on warm and humid afternoons.That said,all of my reloading to date for my hunting rifles has been on the hot side.I no longer feel the need to do so.I apologize for the "so what" remark and will be more responsible from now on. | |||
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BTW,the hottest 458WM load I have listed on that thread,the ones you say are unsafe,came from the Accurate Reloading Pages.That is the 80.5gr Vit 540 load you have listed at 2170 fps.Also,Barnes has listed 500gr 458 Lott loads in there #3 loading manual in excess of 2300fps.These are some of the sources I used in my load development.I don't see you criticizing them. So, their primer pockests are good enough for 5 loadings,while mine are jynxed.I recieved an email from Barnes and was told to use the loads in that manual as a guide.It's not the first time I did that. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Lott Load Development
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I was lucky the sun was out and I could see the target better.Another accurate load was the I think it was the most accurate.Another accurate load was the seated to the second groove.The accuracy on the rest of the loads was very disapointing for me and I would not trust them when hunting.Some grouped as large as a foot.The best groups were around two inches.Here is the W748 group[URL=
]d[/URL] and the IMR 4320 group numbered 2.[URL=
]e[/URL]