The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 500 Bateleur Rifles M98 and MkVGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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OK, just being silly, eh? I'll forget about that. There can be only one 500 BATELEUR. Page Two.   | |||
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Ron, I’ll look forward to their return. I’m going to keep your fire formed brass for future reference to compare against my fire formed brass once my rifle is done. I figure it’ll be interesting to see just how close the chambers are considering we’ll have used two different finish chamber reamers and gauge sets and two different gunsmiths. I’ll reciprocate with some fire formed brass once my rifle is completed as an FYI. I've already sent my dummies to Steve - all were hydraulic-formed Lapua 98 milspec brass, all FLR and loaded with 4-each of the CEB BBW#13 HP NonCons and FN Solids in two COALs, and the CEB MTH HP Spitzer bullets in a single COAL. It’s been to long to recollect the exact specifications but I think the MTHs were loaded to 3.573” COAL. Anyway, Steve and I figure that my rifle can make a tune-up trip back to him, if needed, once I have fire formed brass and can fine tune my dies for my rifle. Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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I was thinking about big bore cart design for the M98 and this got me to thinking 1. What is the maximum and optimal OAL cart length for this action 2. What is the best rim to bottom of shoulder/shoulder neck ratio? I was thinking 1/5th of the case for neck and shoulder was optimal. 3. how well would a single stack rigby case work for the M98 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I just bought 200 pcs of oncefired military Lapua brass in 338 Lapua.. Around 1$ a piece ... Not bad eh??? Would be good for some extra 500 AccRel brass.... | |||
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Buffalo this is what I like to hear. Pyzda | |||
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Most definately a good buy! I've paid $1.75 each in 100 piece batchs for once fired Lapua military 338 Lapua brass. I'd love to find it for $1 each... Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Grab it when you find it. So far little difference between the milsurp and the civilian stuff. Average weight of 7 pieces of the milsurp is 341.6 grains, high 342.4 gr, low 340.4. The one piece of new, unfired, civilian brass that Jim sent weighed 330.9 grains. One piece of my once-fired .338 LM civilian brass pulled at random weighed 330.6 grains. All the above weights were after de-capping and FL sizing. The cratered primers made it tough to measure length, so I decapped them.  Milsurp average length was 2.726", high 2.728", low 2.724". Max allowed brass length, for .338 LM, IIRC, is 2.724", so trim-to is 2.714". Jim's new civilian .338LM case was 2.719". My once-fired .338LM case was 2.724". No water capacities until after they are fired to 12.7x68/49-10, and trimmed to a uniform 2.650" for this exercise. Max 2.657" and trim-to is 2.647" for the 12.7x68/49-10. I cut a milsurp case (MIL) and a civilian case (CIV) with a roto-tool cutoff wheel. I see no significant difference. So far only about 11 grains heavier for the MIL case. That could be from brass alloy used, or lot-to-lot variation between batches? Anecdotally: The MIL brass may be harder than the CIV brass. The MIL brass was a little harder to cut ... maybe? Maybe not? So far, so good.     Hardness of neck and shoulder area might be a requirement for military use. Use once and discard. The milsurp does not seem to have the signs of annealing after final forming. Civilian brass is meant to be reloaded. Lapua does a beautiful annealing on the civilian brass, after the final neck-down from basic cylindrical. New civilian brass blows out very nicely in fireforming. If I split any of the milsurp brass necks on fireforming, I will stop and anneal what's left of the sample. This is a test. Might be that the milsurp brass just needs to be annealed for best results in fire-forming into 12.7x68/49-10, 500 Bateleur/50-12, 500 AccRel Nyati, etc. | |||
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Strictly in reference to a non-Magnum M98 action; i.e., one not factory designed to accommodate either the 505 Gibbs Magnum , the 416 Rigby, or any similar length cartridge… So here goes: 1) 3.6” is the maximum safe COAL for the standard length M98 Mauser action. I believe the intermediate length M98 Mauser action can be opened up to a 3.3” maximum safe COAL. 2) I must be short on my coffee quota – this question doesn’t compute… 3) A single stack magazine is the best feeding option of all options. The Mauser action has been modified for a removable single stack magazine in the past but I believe the magazine was a standard length with a 3.3” COAL maximum. Once again the 3.6” maximum COAL pretty much limits the brass to a 2.710” case length maximum and I’m pretty sure that modifying the action for a single stack magazine would likely shorten the maximum COAL but have zero idea by how much… And unless you’re planning on a long magazine for 4+ rounds I don’t think anything will be gained for the effort involved. Currently 3-down of the 12.7x68/49-10 will fit within the Wiebe’ 4MJ bottom metal with room to push the 4th round down into the magazine so that it will slip up under the extractor as the bolt is moved forward. The 4MJ a standard depth one piece bottom metal that is designed to hold 4-down with the 404 Jeffery and fit within standard depth stocks. Anyway that’s my 2¢… Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Great work Ron!!! Very nice head and wall thickness for both cases; It looks like the mil brass has a slightly larger diameter flash hole - but perhaps that's just an anomaly. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Jim, That is just some off-centeredness of the thick cutoff wheel. You try to cut asymmetrically so that the face of the wheel goes down the centerline, and you end up with a "skinny half" and a "full half" of sectioned case, because of the thickness of the cutoff wheel, crude tool. It aint' perfect.  Primer holes are actually same. Heck, the milsurp and civilian are same throughout, except for annealing or brass composition, by my guess. | |||
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Very awesome Ron!!! Sounds like I need to buy some more Lapua milspec 338 LM brass to use for everyday shooting and load development. Pick up one of those powered annealing machines and all would be great in the 49-10 world! Keep the Jamison/Captech International basic brass for hunting rounds. Yep that would work nicely… Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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$1 a piece is about the right price for OFMILS. The 500AccRel Nyati or the RIPs bird .510 Bateleur are getting more and more attractive with every day goes by. A 20" barrel, 8.5 pounds no muzzle brake every day throw around rifle with 6500-7000fp of energy running on a cheap high pressure brass,,,,,is not a bad thought after all Pyzda | |||
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I thought these excerpted posts that I placed over in the 500 AccRel throat, reamers, and freebore thread might be of interest elsewhere so here it is… Drawn from: http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/3061083571/p/8 Now all three threads have been appropriately updated! Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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McGowen is shipping the second .510-grooved, 1:12"-twist, stainless barrel. This one is a light-as-I-care-to-go "Pac-Nor No.6 Sporter" contour. The first one was a heavier straight taper medium target barrel. As much as I hate to disappoint the short-barrel fascists, I am thinking of making one a 26-incher and the other a 23-incher. Add any screw-on muzzle brake length to that! I am no microbarrelophile, and I thank the Bloody British for the USA.  | |||
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Two McGowen barrels in hand now. Both are .510/.500 rifling, 1:12" twist, stainless, and about 28-1/8" long, nominal 28" contoured blanks with 1.2" shanks. 1. McGowen Medium Target contour (a straight taper): Weighs 5 lbs. and 6 ounces, and has muzzle diameter of 0.875", breech/shank diameter 1.203", sanded-shiney finish, as expected. 2. McGowen's copy of No.6 Pac-Nor Sporter contour: Weighs 3 lbs. and 11 ounces, muzzle diameter 0.750", breech/shank diameter 1.202", with beveled edge on breech face, and bead-blasted finish, for whatever reason, nice touch. Breeches:  Muzzles:  Lessee now, if the lighter sporter barrel is cut and crowned at 23", the muzzle diameter will be 0.800", and that barrel will be nearly two pounds lighter than the target contour barrel if it is left 26" long with muzzle diameter of about 0.905".  | |||
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Rip I've been watching this thread from the start with a great interest. So it will be good one day to see the finish product. In my personal opinion this is one of the best designed chambering in existence. Only time will tell. Pyzda | |||
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Thanks, Pyzda.  McGowen certainly does know how to make a .510-grooved/.500-bored barrel. I have had perfect results with 3 of their 1:10" twist barrels in .510-caliber. Just thought I might like to try the 1:12" this time.  Did I mention that McGowen knows how to make an excellent .510-grooved/.500-bored barrel? 6-groove twists: 10", 12", 20", 24" 8-grooved twists: 15", 24" | |||
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Glad to see your McGowen barrels. I'm still waiting on the 500 AccR Nyati. Of course, that is not just a barrel order but chambering and mounting as well. They have the Nyati reamer. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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The Eagle is still soaring overhead, drawing nearer:   | |||
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can i borrow the new AR reamer? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Is jeffeosso asking to borrow the 500 AR-Nyati reamer on the 500 Bateleur thread? Riflecrank Internationale Permanente | |||
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Yep. Was feeling lazy. Happy Christmas opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Coolest reamer photo...EVER!!! Cheers Chris | |||
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+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I’ll post here and on the 500 AR thread… Jeff, You are certainly welcome to borrow the 500 AR Nyati finish chamber reamer. I only ask that McGowen complete their pending 500 AR Nyati barrel work for Tanz’ [and for ptaylor (he’s the 3rd partner in this reamer) if he also has a rebarrel job pending] 1st then they’re good to go with loaning you the reamer… Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Hijack off:  There is a 500 Bateleur reamer and the parts for two 500 Bateleur rifles at the Hilltop Gun Shop of Rusty McGee, Gunsmith, as of last Saturday. The Tupperware stock on the FN Mauser is being swapped for a B&C Medalist, and the Wiebe bottom metal will still hang down below the belly of the stock. Someday I might remodel it but for now will let it go bare-bottom-metaled, sort of like the rifle is "shooting the moon":  "Bridget Bateleur" we'll call her. Cheeky girl! The Weatherby Mark V has the aluminum alloy drop box from the "Weatherby Custom Shop." Will get 3-down and one up the breech. "Big Bertha Bateleur" will be her name. The forend of that stock (a Weatherby factory stock, synthetic with green paint job) will be whittled until it fits the fat barrel. Might be a "splinter forend" when it is done. Bridget will have a slim 600mm barrel, 23.62". Bertha will have a heavy 650mm barrel, 25.59". Both will have removable muzzle brakes. That is the short of it. The long of it will follow ... Bridget and Bertha, the 500 Batgirl Twins:  Bridget might not look like this, but cosmetic surgery could help:  Bertha will have a stock and floorplate shaped like this:  Hubba hubba ...   | |||
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Excellent job enhancing its coolness RIP! | |||
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Thanks for that, Canuck. I admire the intrusive, graffitiesque charm of that picture too, even if I was the spraypainter. These two pieces of brass were used to make "proof loads" for Bridget and Bertha:  | |||
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what do you do for a proof load, compress it with Rel-7? +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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416Tanzan, Did I say "proof loads?" I meant "poof loads," certainly not PROOF LOADS! COL is 3.350" with a GSC 450-grain HV and brass trimmed to precisely 2.695", crimped. Powder Puff Loads for Bridget and Bertha:   BTW, that is the old/obsolete GSC HV that was .512" diameter before I pushed it through a .510" Lee Bullet Sizer. It was selected for it's short nose ogive which makes for a short COL when it is seated to top band. Happy New Year! | |||
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One picture of the fired primers would tell how hot these "proof loads" were. Pyzda | |||
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This looks so much better than many of the drop-box bottom metals with coffin floorplates – very smooth and clean looking. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Absolutely gorgeous! | |||
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 Bertha Bateleur-Weatherby is getting a box job while she is there, just jealous of Bridget Bateleur-Mauser: Sibling rivalry!!!  Bridget was feeling kind of slutty in Tupperware so she is switching to B&C stock, even though her navel will still be exposed!   Those women with hyphenated last names do put on airs ...  | |||
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Just admiring Bridgette's box while I cool my heels:           Should work even better with 500 Bateleur than it does with 500 Jeffery. | |||
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Hummmm....  Those look like 12.7x68 cartridges... Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Yes, those are 12.7x68/49-10 dummies in my last post above, but the 500 Bateleur is a 12.95x69/50-12, close enough for feed check purposes, especially since the two cartridges are identical up to neck-1. | |||
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Bertha's new scope bases, Rem 700 two-piece bases work on a Wby Mk V: These come with both 6x48 and 8x40 screws. Ingenious of Leupold, eh? Leupold is mighty proud of them, judging by the price.  | |||
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Yep, roger that!  Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Bertha has been liberated from the Hilltop Gun Shop Spa. Here is the first piece of fire-formed brass for the 500 Bateleur, exactly 2.690" brass length as shown, and that is the trim-to length. Looks sort of like a 400 Whelen on steroids. Another perfect chambering job by Rusty McGee, Gunsmith:          BTW, that stock is an HS Precision, not B&C, if I misspoke previously, but it is built similarly to a B&C Medalist or CZ Kevlar stock, regarding aluminum endoskeleton/full bedding block. The buttpad is small and the LOP is short for me, but that is easy to fix with a slip-on LimbSaver. Rusty had to scrape out the forend for the fat barrel and he did get down to metal in the forend, then glassed over all with epoxy. Bridget The Mauser's stock is a B&C, and she still languishes at the spa. Bertha was just a "Wham, bam, thank you Mam." Bridget is going to require some finesse. Bertha feeds short spitzer loads from the box, with no feed work done so far (converted a 30-378 Weatherby Mark V), but she will require some feed work to feed the longer and blunter bullets properly.   | |||
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