Anyone here have experience with both these cartridges? What were your impressions? I have a lovely VZ-24 action stashed and am daydreaming here ...

Yes.

My 404 J was built on a VZ-24. The gunsmith who built it did a great job. Feeds flawlessly.

Jim Kobe did the metal work on a standard 98 for my 425 WR. Enough said there.

You make the WR brass by shortening the 404J case to 2.64". The only issue with the WR is the factory rim. WR wanted to use a standard 98, so they rebated the rim to use a standard bolt. I just had the bolt face opened up and use the 404J brass.

I got lucky in the classifieds here, a couple years ago a gentleman in NY had 500 BELL 404 cases for sale $300 shipped.
Last year, a gentleman in AZ had forming and reloading dies for the 425 WR for $300.

There is not much to choose from between the two. There are more bullets available from different bullet makers for the 404, but Woodleigh and Hawk make several weights for the 425 WR.

If you decide to go 425 WR PM me.

Rich

Thanks Rich. Leaning toward a .404, but again, mostly blue-skying. With my lower back falling apart so badly that my right leg is often numb, my serious hunting days may be about over.

Bill
You will love the .404 Jeffery, I have a nice one built on a winchester featherweight classic in stainless and Walnut.
It has a slight feeding issue but what a superb combo.

The .404 hits with authority.

Cal30

Another vote for the 404. Mine is a Dakota Safari that weighs 8.5 lbs. and I love it. Took it to Zambia the last two years for Buffalo.

No experience with the 425, but with the 404 at least, factory ammo is no problem to obtain. As I don't reload, that is an important factor for me.

there is no bad answer...

Well, I was too ignorant to realize the Jeff needs a magnum action.

The correct answer is right in between 416 Ruger

As rich would say...." It's six of one, seven of the other" :-)

I have no experience with both but did a lot of research for a few years before buying my 416 Rigby.

I think Ozhunter has both calibers.

I too had one built on a VZ-24 action, miss that rifle, now I have one on a CZ 550 Safari Magnum action, feeds like butter.
The 404 doesn't NEED a magnum action to work.
My '98 also fed extremely well, only drawback was the 2 rounds down. The CZ is a bulky rifle, but, it suits me. I have them in 416 Rigby, 404 Jeffrey, 458 Lott and 505 Gibbs. Thinking of getting one in 375H&H just to complete the set.
Already have a stainless Model 70 in 375 Weatherby.

I would go with the 404, easy to load for and factory ammo is easy to get.

cheers.

I love my 11.2x60 Shuler. DPCD did a great job putting it together. Woodleigh and Hawk make bullets, but it does very well with cast.
It holds 6 grains less capacity then a 458 win, plenty of power, with modest recoil.

The Great 404J is very practical due to availability of Casings and factory loaded ammunition. However, the 425Magnum Express is indeed something special if you like unusual classics.
Both work well on all game.


A crop Raider taken well with a 425. This Rifle is presently being used on Banteng , Water Buffalo and Boar in the remote north of Australia.

Only if it looks like this!


https://www.theexplora.com/a-c...tion-big-game-rifle/

Fantastic!!!

M

Boomie, that rifle is beyond dreams. Just WOW!

To me, both are so close in ballistics it is either or will do. The Jeffery round is much more common but there is something special about the .425 rifles--they are so unique and different. The above rifle gets this old double guy excited! Absolutely stunning. (Puts my .375 cased Cogswell to shame).
Cal

As most have already pointed out there is nothing between the 404J and the 425WR in terms of performance.

It will depend on what you wish to do with one of these cartridges now or in the future. The 404J does have a wider selection of readily available factory ammo and reloading components and this supply is unlikely to ever run out as did many of the British big bore cartridges back when Kynoch in England ceased production. The 404J cartridge was one of the few that the European and American ammo companies continued to provide factory loads and components for after the Kynoch closure.

A couple of other considerations in favour of the 404J is that 44cal bullet puller collets and gas checks work perfectly for the .423" calibre bullets. This may not be of great consequence for many owners but I have found it makes life easy when owning a 404J to have these things available off the shelf.

I'm not sure what off the shelf components or tools would be available for the .435" bullet used in the 425WR cartridge.

My 404 Jeffery Type A Mauser made by Oberndorf the very rifle featured in Jon Speeds book on Mauser rifles

A 425WR is just a swap to a magnum bolt face away from using RUM brass, trimmed to length.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
The correct answer is right in between 416 Ruger

or 10,75x68

Or 10,75x57

I've had both and if I were pining for another 40cal bolt gun, I would go with the 404. Components are so much easier to find.
My 425 was a Westley with the magazine clips and fed perfectly. I'm not sure too many smiths today would want to do that kind of work. No reason it should be any harder than a 500 Jeff though.

I have a modern Heym in 404 and a WR plain Jane in 425. Very similar in ballistics, etc. The WR loads and shucks them like butter and is very accurate. The stock looks a little worn, but well bedded and tight, solid wood. The Heym has taken leopard, buff and some plains game. The WR hasn't done anything but throw lead downrange. Both are awesome.

Gary

My son has my Westly Richards 425 and took the time to make cases.

Here is his post:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...105015?r=732105015#7
32105015

Wonderful rifle and caliber

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Well, I was too ignorant to realize the Jeff needs a magnum action.

You're not, and it doesn't.

the best plan to have a good feeding WR is to use either a standard magnum bolt face and RUM brass, or open a magnum bolt face the extra .013" or so and use 404 J brass.

The 425 WR case is only 2.64"+/-. long.

Na, just have a competent gunsmith build it.
Graham Williams of Australian Buffalo Hunters uses a 435Magnum which uses 450grn 425 bullets and 375 cases which works great on Buffalo

In my humble estimation, they are all weak sisters to the .416 Rigby.

the 416 Rigby is officially a baby sister to my 550 Gibbs...

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
In my humble estimation, they are all weak sisters to the .416 Rigby.

Yet more practical sized cases with more frontal surface.

Dr. Wirthlin, thank you for the link to that thread on forming .425 cases.

I suspect that most case makers start out with the same basic case for both.
Be very careful if diy and section a case or two to insure you leave enough meat ahead of the rim.
I have a number of HDS 425 cases with circumferential cracks around the base from being trimmed too close.
Will never buy that again. Never had a separation but they are pretty much a single use case - a very pricey single use case...

OUCH! Wonder who made them for Huntington.

either one will be a great build on a VZ-24.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
OUCH! Wonder who made them for Huntington.

Don't know. I'm glad I noticed before charging up the cases - surely would have been a problem shooting them.

Scary Scary!

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
In my humble estimation, they are all weak sisters to the .416 Rigby.

.416 Rigby .416 diamter 400 gr bullet @ MV 2400 FPS.

.404 Jeffery in a modern action. .423 diameter 400 gr bullet @ MV 2400 FPS.

But since it says Rigby on it I'll give it the advantage of brand recognition and therefore having a vastly greater knock down and kill ability in the field.

Ive played with both over the years..From a practical point of view the 404 is the best bet as its much easier to make feed properly due to the .425s rebated head, regardless of claims made by some..I love the WR .425 as its set up to work flawlessly with the side clips.

I had a .425 WR and they were all built with the side clips to make them feed smoothly and they sure do work..It was the nicest gun I ever owned and I hunted with it a good deal, but a Limey came by one day with pockets stuffed with hundred dollar bills and it went home to bloody England and left this cowboy rich and tearfull. I still miss that gun...I would not own a .425 or any DGR with a rebatted case head such as the .425 unless it has those side clips...I wouldn't be particularly turned off by a .284 on a Mauser action as I have owned two that worked, but I wouldn't want to stake my life on such were I hunting the bad stuff...

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
In my humble estimation, they are all weak sisters to the .416 Rigby.

.416 Rigby .416 diamter 400 gr bullet @ MV 2400 FPS.

.404 Jeffery in a modern action. .423 diameter 400 gr bullet @ MV 2400 FPS.

But since it says Rigby on it I'll give it the advantage of brand recognition and therefore having a vastly greater knock down and kill ability in the field.

Whoa, there. Hold your horses. Apples to apples only. Not apples to oranges, if you please.

.416 Rigby in a "modern action" = 400 grain bullet at 2,700 fps!

agreed...