The Rhodesian SAS used toplay a rather dangerous game called Hippo Roulette to test the courage of a braggart during the Rhodesia-Zambia conflict. Basically, to prove his bravado the soldier sat directly in a active Hippo's path between him and the water at night and waited for the Hippo to appear. Either the Hippo killed him or he killed the Hippo. They could choose any suitable military weapon except a beltfed. The African version of Pistols at dawn. It was a full 10 sphincter experience as I'm told as things happened fast at very close range..
The question is what would you rather have in your hands when the Hippo comes and he's coming fast and won't stop. A 45-70 lever with fast multiple shots? a .600Ok bolt gun? or a 500 S&W pistol? Choose wisely!

Question:
1. 45-70 Marlin blessed by Vince Lupo himself

Choices:
yes
no

Question:
A 500 S&Wpistol

Choices:
yes
no

Question:
A .600 Ok bolt gun with 900 gr soft points at 2100 fps.

Choices:
yes
no

 

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
The Rhodesian SAS used toplay a rather dangerous game called Hippo Roulette to test the courage of a braggart during the Rhodesia-Zambia conflict. Basically, to prove his bravado the soldier sat directly in a active Hippo's path between him and the water at night and waited for the Hippo to appear. Either the Hippo killed him or he killed the Hippo. They could choose any suitable military weapon except a beltfed. The African version of Pistols at dawn. It was a full 10 sphincter experience as I'm told as things happened fast at very close range..
The question is what would you rather have in your hands when the Hippo comes and he's coming fast and won't stop. A 45-70 lever with fast multiple shots? a .600Ok bolt gun? or a 500 S&W pistol? Choose wisely!

Stirring shit, are we?????????? This thread is worthless as tits on a boar hog and should be locked.

Actually not stirring shit at all. You really miss the point! Think about it.-Rob

I vote 45-70, because I know I can control it, and it will get into the brain as well as any other cartridge with the right bullet selection. I suck with pistols, so it's out. The 600 OK would hurt me after the first shot, so there's my choice. Hopefully Tom` can come help out.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Actually not stirring shit at all. You really miss the point! Think about it.-Rob

RIGHT.

.........Personally I would prefer the 458 win mag Garand ........

OK, the point is, that in Hippo Roullette you are no longer dealing with a unaware, uninjured animal. You are facing a big pissed off critter at very close range. You must kill it or it kills you. What do you choose? Any one of the weapons chosen HAS KILLED HIPPO. Do you believe in fast firepower, instinctive shooting or bone crushing power to stop the Hippo. Remember its your life on the line. NO PH to pull you out if things go wrong. This Hypothetical has a purpose and its not ill- intended.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
The 600 OK would hurt me after the first shot, so there's my choice. Hopefully Tom` can come help out.

.................................I think that in the situation the rifle would be controlable @ 2400 fps I would opt for one of the others ...............

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
The Rhodesian SAS used toplay a rather dangerous game called Hippo Roulette They could choose any suitable military weapon except a belted.

Where is your selection of suitable military weapons? One of the old gun writers, I think J. Cooper, said something like "for those of us lucky enough to be charged".

You're one of those guys, but instead of doing it the African's way, you gotta have a howitzer. Do it the African soldier way, then you'll really have something to talk about, if you can still talk.

Heck, come up here in July and we'll set you out at night near a salmon stream, in the grass and salmon berry bushes, on a bear trail, and you can cover yourself with lard and bacon drippings. We'll pick you up in the morning, if we can find you. Perhaps you can start a new way of Alaksa brown bear hunting - for sport. They would probably let you do it without a guide, because they would probably figure it was going to be one of those truely once in a lifetime experiences, you know - one of the gene pool cleansing events.



KB

""quote:
Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Actually not stirring shit at all. You really miss the point! Think about it.-Rob ""


I agree to 100%
What about a angry brown bear.. what rifle would you use?

I think I would use my .460 wby because I dont think that my 9,3X62 semi auto would stop the hippo OR the brown bear with body shots. (Only brain shots and how much time do you have to aim?
I have shot moose with both .460 wby and the 9,3x62 (body shots) on the shoulders and with the 9,3 I have put 2 some times 3 shots and they have not go down at once. When I pull the trigger of my .460 at the shoulders on moose they have been down at once like hit by a train!

My vote is .600 OVERKILL!
//Overkill

Kablewey- Lets not degrade into name calling. Its a SIMPLE question and you have a vote . Focus, Pay Attention! It's not a test of YOUR or my manhood. Pse try and be civil. Just follow the directions or execute you right to not answer. If you don't like the results, I'm deeply sorry!.-Rob

Rob,
I am being nice. And I didn't call you names. I'm just messin with you, and trying to not be too serious.

But I really thought my brown bear scenerio was a close parrallel to the hippo roulette.


A friend of mine - yes I have friends - told me about the time he shot a black bear that came into camp at night. He said it was a good thing the bear ran away after being shot, because my friend couldn't hear or see for several critical seconds after the blast from his 454 casulle.

I suspect the same situation would be true with the 600OK, so for me it would be basically a single shot. The muzzel flash, and blast would undoubtedly blind and defen me, but the recoil would probably dislocate my shoulder, and knock some teeth out. So if the hippo or bear died instantly, I would still have to be led out of the woods, and taken to the hospital.

I would be like another friend's lab, who spent the night under the bunk in a cabin on Kodiac Island, after being so brave and foolish, once running outside at the sound of something in the deer cashe, and found his worst nightmare. I think the dog wasexpecting just another martin. My friend said that dog never really recovered from the trauma.

So, I can't see much point of dreaming about such a scenerio, which I intend to avoid like a killer African virus, ebolo.

KB

Good poll. Really puts the question well.

This is why the old time solo elephant hunters generally took the biggest doubles they could find and handle into the jungles after tembo.

BTW, those who chose other than the .600 OK from the list need their heads examined, IMHO.

I voted for the .600, but I would rather have a large bore double in this situation

Rob, I noticed tat you didn't specify a load for either the 45-70 or 500S&W (altough since you mentioned Vince Lupo I'll go out on a limb and assume Garrett's 540gr for the 45-70-not that it would influence my vote one way or another).

You did, however specify a soft point for the .600. Since we're probably talking about having to stop charging hippo comming head on, could a soft point be considered reliable enough to go through the skull and reach the brain?

M/

Damn, good poll! After seeing a few hippo charges on tape, there is no such thing as too much gun!

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
I vote 45-70, because I know I can control it, and it will get into the brain as well as any other cartridge with the right bullet selection. I suck with pistols, so it's out. The 600 OK would hurt me after the first shot, so there's my choice. Hopefully Tom` can come help out.

x2

The right bullet should do fine for brain shots and if I can get 3 off vs 1...

Solid flat nose bullets above 450 grains

This is about being cool under preasure and accurate cns shots.

In short...

Whatever gives you the most confidence, can do a cns shot placed well.

here is corecpa's buff and hippo with the 45-70 and garrett hammerheads.




These are from my hunt in MZB from June 2005. I used a Marlin Guide Gun with Garrett super hard cast 540 grainers going a mere 1550 fps. We waited on a bank for over five hours before I got the shot on the Buf. He was an honest 100 yards away when I fired. The bullet hit him too far forward on the shoulder, but he was unable to use his left front leg afterwards. We walked up behind him to finish his off. One shot to his spine put him down for good along with two more heart shots while he was on the ground. Those things are tough. He was the second biggest buffalo in the herd of 44. I could never get a shot at my first choice and the herd was starting to move off so I took him. He is a little over 43"s.
The hippo cow I took at about 40 yards with a brain shot, but a 30-06 could have killed her just as well.
I left this rifle with the Limpopo Valley Horse Safaris guides in Botswana. It is carried in a scabbard while out riding and is loaded with the Garrett 500 grain solids. They have lots of elephants in the Tuli and although it wouldn't be my first choice for an elephant gun, it is much more compact on horseback than the CZ 458 Win Mags they use to carry. The goal there isn't necessarily to kill an elephant, but just make it go away.
I bought this Marlin second hand over the internet for $ 400 including delivery. It already had the WWG extended mag tube and glove sized lever.
That was a smokin hot deal and I believe there is nothing wrong with using a Marlin for Buffalo. If he is wounded I wouldn't hesitate to go after with the 45-70, although I would be happy to let my PH lead the way with a 416 Rigby or bigger. They have to do something to earn the big bucks!

Great- The bear scenario differs only in that the bear may deceide not to go for you. They tended to dislike the smell of humans and gun oil in my limited experience with them.
A Hippo on its own Hippo-path will charge nearly 100% of the time. I wanted to eliminate the variable of giving the animal the choice to charge or not. It also is un-wounded so you have no advantage. Here,your only advantage is you know he's coming and will be as ready as possible with your chosen weapon.
Semi-autos sound good in theory,but at 10ft at 30mph ( Charging Hippo speed-you do the math) at night, It's unlikely your going to get off more than one shot period. advantage here to the 45-70 vs a .308 LAR as commonly used at the time or AK-47. So thruthfully,semi autos even double rifles will be useless. Thats directly from Paul Zorn a EX- Rhodesian SAS officer who actually played the game.
This poll is not shit stirring, but aims to clearly ask the question of what we on this board would actually do. We all need to be really honest. It is about the cartridges and weopons of choice when things go really wrong. I would be interested if the poll members could explain the reason for their choice.-Rob

if there is only time for one shot I would pick the 600 OK.

or that two marlin lever double that you are thinking of making

In this scenario one has but one shot and it must be a brain hit to stop the charge. Of the choices provided I picked the 600. The 600, while not my first choice if allowed others, may provide for with a near brain miss, time for a second finisher.

The other two choices will work IF you hit the brain with the first (and realistically only) shot.

The brain shot is tough to execute on a fast moving animal. Sitting down and shooting into them helps. That Hippo will probably have his mouth open wide and I have no idea how your going to hit his brain except by luck. Damaging the spine or inducing enough brain concussion probably would be more effective. This is a CNS play period once the charge starts. If you were extremely lucky I'm told you had a millisecond to shoot before he "made you" and started his charge. If hit badly enough you might be able to slow him down,but he won't wander off and just die. for the second shot Once the charge started, things got way more dicey. Remember its at night too but I'll allow night sights as some of the LAR's and Gallils used had them.

If I only have one shot, obviously the .600, however you stated the 45-70 offered quick followup shots, stipulating you could have more than one with it.

Point is if things went well you just might or more probably won't have time for a second shot.Pistol would probably have the advantage here over a lever or bolt at 10 ft. Point is whats most likely to STOP this animal in its tracks under conditions that most favor him? -Rob

For Hippo Roulette ... seems whether you choose the hippo or the 600OK ... its going to hurt either way. In some ways ... the average chump without a 100% certain idea of where the brain lies on a hippo will choose a 600OK to stack the cards their way ... but someone that's done this work before, knows the animal and its vital points ... could very well be tempted to go 45/70.
Where there's uncertainty ... I'd go big.
Cheers...
Con

The 45/70, properly loaded wiht Match King bullets, will prevail.

I think I'd go w. a 45-70, essentially, because I have one, and I'm familiar with it, and I have no experience w. a 600 OK -- my hat's off to those that shoot them, but I'd prefer... well a 458 win mag garand does sound pretty good, or my 458 bolt action -- this whole things sound nuts, but how wide open is a hippo's mouth during a charge? It seems like you can shoot in the back of the mouth, into the brain/high spine..

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
...but how wide open is a hippo's mouth during a charge? It seems like you can shoot in the back of the mouth, into the brain/high spine..

A bull hippo's mouth can open to about four feet, but they'll only open their mouth just before they try to bite you in half!

George

GeorgeS- your right their mouth is open 4 ft in the 10ft you have left. Where you gonna shoot him? Where is the brain or spine?
Experience at doing this? I was told few were ever stupid enough to do this twice!
360 views and only 20 votes? Come on guys! let your voice be heard and tell us why you made your decision. Things are still in play!-Rob

Seems the perfect-er solution is a hybrid rifle/wheel gun. Modify a version of this 50-110 magnum research BFR with a 18 or 20" barrel and rifle stock for heavy fat solid bullets with the quickest follow up shots...450 grain solids @ 2100

I thought it was a 50 Alaskan?

yes that one is a 50 alaskan... I was thinking of safarikids 50-110...I will have to find a pic of that one.

Boomstick- That thing is clearly uncontrollable. BTW I played with a 45-70 that I had running at nearly 2100 fps with a 500 gr bullet. It was a Marlin and I honestly tried to make the equivalent of a .458 win mag out of it. Recoil was unbearable and frankly worse than the .600Ok in my opinion and a fast follow-up shot was out of the question. A bolt gun would be faster.
If a second shot was possible in the Hippo -Roulette scenario, It would be a toss-up between the .500S&W and the bolt .600Ok IMHO. The 45-70 lever at full tilt boogey will be the slowest because it will be the least controllable. You might in fact be better off with 300gr factory loads if and only if the second shot scenario presented itself and it probably won't.
This is not make believe either ,this game was actually played! Anyone care to guess what Military weapon was the choice of the survivers?-Rob

it is uncontrollable in its pistol form but add 10" of barrel and a rifle stock it would be AWESOME as an 8 pound carbine pistol/rifle...I want one

I picked the .600OK, since I think Taylor had it right with his 'KO' formula.

One proximal shot with the .600OK should provide enough shock to the hippo to allow the opportunity for a finisher.

Having shot Neal's .550 and Saeed's .577 T-Rex, I have no doubt that I can handle the recoil of the .600OK.

My only real remaining goal for African hunting is to take a hippo on dry ground with my .470 Capstick and Bridger solids.

George

I tried that with a .500S&W that I hot rodded and tried to make a revolving DGR out of it by adding a longer barrel and forearm and a shoulder stock ala 1917 artillery luger. Blast from the cylinder gap nearly ripped my arm open. It's too ungainly to shoot without two hand rifle like support. You really need a leather blast shield on your arm. Scary thing to shoot and you don't have enough control supporting it under the trigger guard which now is the only safe place for your hand.. Better fireproof your clothes too. I have a 12 in barreled 500S&W and recovery time with 400 gr bullets at 1900fps is no faster than the .600Ok bolt. It is reliable though and will not jamb, but it can break your finger. Not a good recipe for a fast second shot and not powerful enough for a stunner.
Despite popular opinion,I seriously doubt there is a person on this site that could not handle a .600OK at 2100fps for one or two shots. Most people who shoot it are amazed and you hear wow Its not bad at all constantly.-Rob

Great Post Rob

Great answer George, as hippo on dry ground is my PREMIER deisre in africa...

and the 550 express was designed (neal designed it, I merely provided goading) to allow hippo smashing, when they were even bothering the canoe.. as my friend couldn't use his 577 NE while in a canoe...

When he shot the 550 express, RIGHT NEXT to his 577 NE ... and over a Chrono ...
<stunned look> "Why Jeff, that doesn't kick much at all"

So, hippo, dry ground, ME shooting?
600 OK
550 mag, express, or flanged
500 AR
any of my AR rounds...

If one of our jackhole trolls is standing in it's path?
Well, I would feel sorry for the hippo, and would hope he could get the taste of troll out of his mouth, but 45/70

jeffe

Rob,
remember our discussion on my BBK action? Consider that a done deal.. we'll do jeffe a 600 OK

jeffe

The semi-auto Benneli double in 12 GaFH firing both barrels simultaneously might be the perfect weapon for this scenario. Kinda a modern Howdah gun. Two smoking balls of lead 1 inch in diameter going through the Hippos mouth/ head/ shoulders might be reasonably satisfactory.
BTW- The SAS guys used WWII combat shotguns, Win 97's, stevens 520-30's with slugs.
Close range shocking power was the winning solution. When you hold the trigger back and pump they are fast as lightning should the second shot scenario present itself.-Rob

I would take the 600 with a good FN monometal solid. Better know where the brain is located but with the solid you can still miss the brain and have the spine in play.

Worst case at ten feet the muzzle blast should make an impression hit or miss.

A tripod mounted 30mm gatling gun fireing depleted uranium rounds would be nice too

I'd take the 600 any day burt with the idea that you had skates on so the recoil would send me back enough for another shot