quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Doc

You are full of BS.

Check you facts. Oh I forgot, you align yourself with what you want.

In the last 75 years India's growth is proportionately better than any Western country.

Your claim that the caste system is categorically bad just shows your bigotry.

I have repeatedly said that there are some terrible aspects of the caste system today but the British had a major hand in its current corrupted manifestation. You want to deny a historically established fact that has been confirmed by anthropological scholars for over a century.

quote:

I have repeatedly said that there are some terrible aspects of the caste system today but the British had a major hand in its current corrupted manifestation. You want to deny a historically established fact that has been confirmed by anthropological scholars for over a century.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Doc

You are full of BS.

Check you facts. Oh I forgot, you align yourself with what you want.

In the last 75 years India's growth is proportionately better than any Western country.

Your claim that the caste system is categorically bad just shows your bigotry.

I have repeatedly said that there are some terrible aspects of the caste system today but the British had a major hand in its current corrupted manifestation. You want to deny a historically established fact that has been confirmed by anthropological scholars for over a century.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
All these different colored posts make it hard for me to be sure who's said what.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
.

In the last 75 years India's growth is proportionately better than any Western country.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
.

In the last 75 years India's growth is proportionately better than any Western country.

Then why did ya leave?

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
.

In the last 75 years India's growth is proportionately better than any Western country.

Then why did ya leave?

One migrates in search of greener pastures and quite understandably when the affected person is about an Indian who at home is being grossly underpaid and possibly racially segregated due to caste identity.

The question here is why did Naki go beyond seeking fortunes abroad as an expatriate (which is the common approach) to the extent of relinquishing his Indian citizenship in favor of of a Kiwi citizenship of which he is so proud of yet a damn joke?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
.

In the last 75 years India's growth is proportionately better than any Western country.

Then why did ya leave?

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
Caste system is 3000 years old and nobody really knows why
DNA of all the groups stopped mixing at that time

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Doc

You are full of BS.

Check you facts. Oh I forgot, you align yourself with what you want.

In the last 75 years India's growth is proportionately better than any Western country.

Your claim that the caste system is categorically bad just shows your bigotry.

I have repeatedly said that there are some terrible aspects of the caste system today but the British had a major hand in its current corrupted manifestation. You want to deny a historically established fact that has been confirmed by anthropological scholars for over a century.

How has India's growth been proportionally better than any western country?

What metrics are you using to claim that?

Individual liberties? Economic? Lifespan? Increase in GNP?

You once again say that the caste system is good except for the evil British... I will say, of all the Indian people I have met, you are the only one who tries and defend the caste system.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Doc

You are an intelligent man and well educated with a sharp analytical mind. You just need to re-tune your moral compass and sense of objectivity. Just clean up your filters and shift paradigms. Since you align yourself with what you want (as you confessed) you now need to align your mind to seek the truth that you may not like. Will your moral compass allow that?

Statistics can be a bitch. How do you interpret growth, scale, relativity, quality etc. ?

Here are some pointers.

1. Before East India Company started its plunder, India was the richest country on earth for over 1500 years (Oxford & Cambridge university studies)

Perhaps, (if you want to call the subcontinent a country, which it was not, as you pointed out before) but the Chinese might debate that. Certainly they were more productive than Europe at the time.
2. In 1947 when the British left, Indian economy was gutted. Yet it was the 6th largest in the world - Despite 350 years of plunder ....

I don’t know that I would call it plunder, but the British used the EIC to hold a trade monopoly. The English did trade with the Indians, not literally steal by violence. I get your point, but India’s strength is an was a productive work force.
3. Today India is the 3rd largest economy by some measures and among the fastest growing for decades (in 75 years)

I assume this is your rationale for claiming India has improved more than others.
4. My earlier comment was based on relative context. It is based on a variety of factors including the change from a preindustrial society (feudal) to a modern industrial powerhouse. All within 75 years.

I do think the British had some hand in that as well. India was feudal when the EIC first came. It became a “protectorate” under the British, and large numbers of Indians went to Europe to school, and came back and brought changes with them. It wasn’t quite the same transition Japan did in about the same length of time.
5. Indian diaspora and the spread of Indian professionals (including myself) now dominates the world as a collective. This trend is going to continue for decades as the world gets flooded with Indian engineers, IT professionals, doctors, nurses, etc.

I don’t think Indian professionals dominate anywhere but India. A useful and necessary part, yes. Vital, yes. Dominant, no.
6. Think about it for a minute - what would the US be today if Trump kicked out all Indians? How would any other country on earth be if they kicked out all Americans? I think the most countries can continue to do well without Americans. I doubt they can without Indians!

If you expelled all Americans in any non U.S. nation, you are right, it wouldn’t cripple their workforce (but the result would be your economy crippled). If we lost all people of Indian ancestry from our workforce, it would be a big disruption. If you left alone the Indians who became US citizens, it’s a significantly less impact. While I think the H1B visa program is abused at times to the detriment of our population, I do agree that it is on the whole good for the US. Indian people are a significant contribution there, but not unique in the US.

Relative, hard to compare, no real measures available...... Very hard to swallow!

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Doc

You are full of BS.

Check you facts. Oh I forgot, you align yourself with what you want.

In the last 75 years India's growth is proportionately better than any Western country.

Your claim that the caste system is categorically bad just shows your bigotry.

I have repeatedly said that there are some terrible aspects of the caste system today but the British had a major hand in its current corrupted manifestation. You want to deny a historically established fact that has been confirmed by anthropological scholars for over a century.

How has India's growth been proportionally better than any western country?

What metrics are you using to claim that?

Individual liberties? Economic? Lifespan? Increase in GNP?

You once again say that the caste system is good except for the evil British... I will say, of all the Indian people I have met, you are the only one who tries and defend the caste system.

quote:

I don’t know that I would call it plunder, but the British used the EIC to hold a trade monopoly. The English did trade with the Indians, not literally steal by violence.

quote:

The biggest die off, as I understand it was due to British failures relating to famine during the world war. Incompetence more than malice in all likelihood.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
You dont know shit about rural america naki.
Only folks moved here from the cities lock their doors, cars or homes. If you go to the store in town, half the vehicles are running with the keys in them. Trying to melt the ice off the windshields while in getting their coffee. you can tell lies with the best of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
You got a chip on your shoulder mate.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Your main point is that India was a very prosperous nation before the British and Dutch arrived? That didn’t seem to be your main point. That is accurate.

Also per you, India is a very prosperous land since independence… which I will agree with.

So why is there such a (in your words) diaspora of the educated Indian professionals? People don’t move for no reason.

If Churchill ordered the starvation of 6 million Indians, yes that’s malice and he was criminal in that. If the food was there and he elected to save it instead, yes, morally wrong and criminal.

I know that Churchill wanted to keep the empire together as a going concern… and he was quite frustrated and upset that the US was not willing to support that.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
How about the fact Jasleen Dhamija debunked the myth the Brits broke/cut off the thumbs of weavers.
A chapter in her book, Regional Weavers of India tells of there being zero proof of the old tale.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Since you have decided to be civil, I will respond.

Youn have failed to address the context of the thread - a bigoted hateful lie. Intended to insult. Others chipped in to insult me while I was on holiday and not part of the discussion. Doc butler joined that crowd & so did you.

Western experiment is not enlightened. It is anchored in oppression & exploitation. It has a long history of broken promises, broken treaties and much worse. It has a long history of genocide of a myriad cultures & communities for over 500 years. Several other cultures were far more enlightened while the West was in the primitive dark ages for over 3000 years.

The US is not enlightened. It has Trump back again. Are you saying that Trump is an example of a leader who sacrifices his interest for the country? Go figure.

The US has almost a FAILURE score on Human Rights. That is not Enlightenment and it is not a good standard for a society or a government (remember Trump).

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I read the above post by Dr. Butler and have had no issue w opposing his positions.

The above is straight truth homes as the kids said when I was young.

Dr. Butler has not insulted all Indian people.

He has accurately pointed out the immorality of the government’s structure and power in India.

Age there good Indians. Yes, I like one booking agent. He is Indian. However, the structure of your political and economic system, those who support it, those who allow it, and those who refuse to sacrifice their position to end it is the anthesis of the American and Western Enlightened Experiment.

Nakihunter, it does look to me that the OP and replies were targeted at goading you when you weren't around to defend yourself.

It's true that Western Europeans colonized and exploited other cultures for almost 500 years. And the US had its own shorter period of exploitation of other cultures.

How might the world be different if the American "black ships" hadn't forced Japan to open its doors? Would things be better or worse for the world?

But you're beating a dead horse--I doubt anyone here denies history. (But we have Trumpies here, so you never know.)

I agree it was unenlightened for the US to elect a criminal, fraudulent narcissist to the most powerful position in the planet--mostly because the price of milk and eggs went up twenty percent in the past four years, and because Biden left the doors open to illegal immigration. No one will ever win by betting on the intelligence or principles of the average American voter. But that's another subject.

You constantly focus only on the negative of Western civilization. If not for the Western experiment, you and I wouldn't be communicating now. And you'd be stuck back in India in whatever caste you were born into.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
How about the fact Jasleen Dhamija debunked the myth the Brits broke/cut off the thumbs of weavers.
A chapter in her book, Regional Weavers of India tells of there being zero proof of the old tale.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
How about the fact Jasleen Dhamija debunked the myth the Brits broke/cut off the thumbs of weavers.
A chapter in her book, Regional Weavers of India tells of there being zero proof of the old tale.

That's really interesting! I took the lead you just gave us and googled, and it seems correct, the breaking thumbs thing is indeed not true, and is actually a quite recent invention.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Naki believes many things.
The US couldnt function without Indians. I guess no taxi drivers or Bodega shops until new owners come in, would inconvenience some.
He believes in the loch Ness monster, because he read it somewhere.
He knows there is bigfoot. He was sexually molested by one.
They dont go for white people, but an indian is an indian, to bigfoot.
One had naki bent over a log, with naki shouting " dot, not feather, dot not feather" it didnt do him any good.
Naki is a believer in many things true or not.

quote:

Naki is a believer in many things true or not.

quote:

when the down-trodden needed him most

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
TB40, while I think Naki is blinded by his leftist ideology, in reality, losing all the highly educated and smart Indians is more than the small entrepreneurs that stereotypically run a 7-11 in poor neighborhoods.

If we have issues getting folks in to see a doctor now, losing a substantial number will make the problem worse. There are an awful lot of Indians in IT.

They do tend to have a lot better work ethic (or so I’ve seen) than most white millennials.

Just because someone else indulges in stereotype behavior doesn’t mean you need to…

quote:

Originally posted by medved:
as new zealand and australia has shown the way for the world on how to ban firearms, I imagine India is a paradise for gun ownership and hunting ...

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
The down-trodden in the West need me and other professionals like me a lot more. Plenty of better left in India to serve there. Lots more to come to the West. In the next 30 years the world will be served by mostly Indians.

Better get used to it and start showing some gratitude!



_____________

Fulvio said

quote:

when the down-trodden needed him most