quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:

quote:

The Holocaust does not make the way the Israelis have treated the Palestinians okay. It was the German's running the concentration camps, not the Palestinians.

The camps were in Europe, but the Grand Mufti was all in for the extermination of the Jews from the ME.
They allied with Hitler and lost.
Too fucking bad.

The Palestinians don't want peace, they want to eliminate the Jews.

There's a simple premise about reaching a peace in the Middle East:

If Hamas and Hezbollah put down their arms, there will be peace in the Middle East.
If Israel puts down their arms, there will be the annihilation of Israel.

That's it.


https://www.jewishvirtuallibra...-and-the-f-uuml-hrer

None of that justifies the way the Israelis stole the Palestinian land or how they have treated the Palestinians since 1948. The Zionist were more than happy to use terrorism and ethnic cleansing to create the State of Israel. Plenty of Jews want to eliminate the Palestinians as well, this is not a one sided conflict. The fact that the Palestinians refuse to accept such treatment is in no way surprising. This will continue until something changes and the Palestinians are granted a State of their own.

Under Ottoman rule jews lived in relative peace with Muslims, this conflict did not heat up until the Zionist drove out 720,000 Palestinians to create a Jewish homeland.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
That is a very one sided view of things. 720, 000 Palestinians were driven from Palestine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...t_political_violence

In 75 years the Jewish population has not been able to convince the Palestinians that what was done to them is acceptable, I do not think that will change.

Neither side is blame free in this mess. There are over 2 million Palestinians today, they will not forget and I do not believe that Muslims in other countries will either. If the Israelis continue with the status quo we will never see peace in the Holy land.

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
That is a very one sided view of things. 720, 000 Palestinians were driven from Palestine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...t_political_violence

In 75 years the Jewish population has not been able to convince the Palestinians that what was done to them is acceptable, I do not think that will change.

Neither side is blame free in this mess. There are over 2 million Palestinians today, they will not forget and I do not believe that Muslims in other countries will either. If the Israelis continue with the status quo we will never see peace in the Holy land.

You sound like Palestinian

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Quit holding Israel to a higher bar than we ourselves.

We were in Afghanistan and Iraq for a score of years.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Quit holding Israel to a higher bar than we ourselves.

We were in Afghanistan and Iraq for a score of years.

And what a huge mistake that was.....

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
That is a very one sided view of things. 720, 000 Palestinians were driven from Palestine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...t_political_violence

In 75 years the Jewish population has not been able to convince the Palestinians that what was done to them is acceptable, I do not think that will change.

Neither side is blame free in this mess. There are over 2 million Palestinians today, they will not forget and I do not believe that Muslims in other countries will either. If the Israelis continue with the status quo we will never see peace in the Holy land.

You sound like Palestinian

You sound like a Russian troll

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Ok, specifically what was the foreign policy mistake involved in Vietnam?

Afghanistan?

Iraq?

Not saying they were successes by any definition, but what were the foreign policy mistakes, specifically?

Seems to me that Vietnam was wrong place, wrong time.

Afghanistan was allowing mission creep.

Iraq was another wrong place, wrong time.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

Instead we should have used 20 or 30 tactical nuclear weapons, a mix of air dropped and ADM,

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

Instead we should have used 20 or 30 tactical nuclear weapons, a mix of air dropped and ADM,

introducing Thermonuclear Sarge-- international treaties and rule of law be damned....

seriously, tell us, what are you actually drinking?

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
If the USA had used “small tactical nukes” then a precedent for their use would have been made and used in the future by say Russia.

I agree w the general idea. I disagree w the use of such weapons in Afghanistan

quote:

Ok, specifically what was the foreign policy mistake involved in Vietnam?

quote:

Originally posted by DRG:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
If the USA had used “small tactical nukes” then a precedent for their use would have been made and used in the future by say Russia.

I agree w the general idea. I disagree w the use of such weapons in Afghanistan

We already set that precedent at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Russia will use nuclear weapons if, and only if, it's in their interest to do so, just like everybody else.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by DRG:

Except it won't be. The Israelis are doing a fine job setting up the next generations of bitter and angry terrorists. Won't be long until the children of Gaza are old enough to avenge relatives being killed today.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
If the USA had used “small tactical nukes” then a precedent for their use would have been made and used in the future by say Russia.

I agree w the general idea. I disagree w the use of such weapons in Afghanistan

We already set that precedent at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Russia will use nuclear weapons if, and only if, it's in their interest to do so, just like everybody else.

Thermonuclear Sarge --
nuke em all -- why? because he said so --

You know there's treaties that say we won't use nukes, AFTER the precedent of Hiroshima and Nagasaki --

key word - AFTER --

Well, we've determine that jeff shouldn't have access to nukes, due to "red flags"

quote:

Originally posted by DRG:


They are already killing Israelis.

They don't need an excuse.

What do you suggest, the Israelis just ignore the beheadings, rapes, murders of babies and old people.

I bet you think the invasion of Afghanistan and killing of Bin Laden was unjustified?

Don

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

Israelis killing Palestinians, Palestinians killing Israelis.

6 of one, a half dozen of the other.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by DRG:


They are already killing Israelis.

They don't need an excuse.

What do you suggest, the Israelis just ignore the beheadings, rapes, murders of babies and old people.

I bet you think the invasion of Afghanistan and killing of Bin Laden was unjustified?

Don

Israelis killing Palestinians, Palestinians killing Israelis.

6 of one, a half dozen of the other.

I suggest a two state solution, something Bibi has been undermining for two decades.

I think the invasion of Afghanistan, the nation building specifically was unjustified. The killing of Bin Laden completely justified.

Plenty of blame to go around in this mess. The palestinians will not forget being driven from Palestine, you may want them to but from what I have seen that is not a likely outcome. Civilians have been targeted by both sides for over 75 years, neither side has much to brag about regarding their conduct.

I can only hope that America is not part of a multinational peacekeeping in Gaza after the current war ends. Seems like something we should stay far, far away from.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
How can you claim that Netanyahu is the obstruction to a two state solution when (as quoted) the Palestinians have been unwilling to accept it?

I can get that some Israeli acts cause hatred on the part of some affected Palestinians.

But as has been well documented, the Israelis have repeatedly offered a two state deal that was quite generous (given the realpolitik lay of the land) it really is on the Palestinians and the folks they choose to represent them.

I don’t see why we should be particularly concerned about a horse that refuses to drink even though we have brought the water trough to it and filled it 3/4 full.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by DRG:


They are already killing Israelis.

They don't need an excuse.

What do you suggest, the Israelis just ignore the beheadings, rapes, murders of babies and old people.

I bet you think the invasion of Afghanistan and killing of Bin Laden was unjustified?

Don

Israelis killing Palestinians, Palestinians killing Israelis.

6 of one, a half dozen of the other.

I suggest a two state solution, something Bibi has been undermining for two decades.

I think the invasion of Afghanistan, the nation building specifically was unjustified. The killing of Bin Laden completely justified.

Plenty of blame to go around in this mess. The palestinians will not forget being driven from Palestine, you may want them to but from what I have seen that is not a likely outcome. Civilians have been targeted by both sides for over 75 years, neither side has much to brag about regarding their conduct.

I can only hope that America is not part of a multinational peacekeeping in Gaza after the current war ends. Seems like something we should stay far, far away from.

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:
Hamas and all of the Palestinians who put them in power have no interest in a two state solution and this is most certainly not a territorial matter.
They want to eliminate or at the least, subjugate the Jews - they say it themselves!

Straight from the Hamas Charter:

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with. As in said in the honourable Hadith:

"The people of Syria are Allah's lash in His land. He wreaks His vengeance through them against whomsoever He wishes among His slaves It is unthinkable that those who are double-faced among them should prosper over the faithful. They will certainly die out of grief and desperation."

"...Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam."

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
How can you claim that Netanyahu is the obstruction to a two state solution when (as quoted) the Palestinians have been unwilling to accept it?

I can get that some Israeli acts cause hatred on the part of some affected Palestinians.

But as has been well documented, the Israelis have repeatedly offered a two state deal that was quite generous (given the realpolitik lay of the land) it really is on the Palestinians and the folks they choose to represent them.

I don’t see why we should be particularly concerned about a horse that refuses to drink even though we have brought the water trough to it and filled it 3/4 full.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by DRG:


They are already killing Israelis.

They don't need an excuse.

What do you suggest, the Israelis just ignore the beheadings, rapes, murders of babies and old people.

I bet you think the invasion of Afghanistan and killing of Bin Laden was unjustified?

Don

Israelis killing Palestinians, Palestinians killing Israelis.

6 of one, a half dozen of the other.

I suggest a two state solution, something Bibi has been undermining for two decades.

I think the invasion of Afghanistan, the nation building specifically was unjustified. The killing of Bin Laden completely justified.

Plenty of blame to go around in this mess. The palestinians will not forget being driven from Palestine, you may want them to but from what I have seen that is not a likely outcome. Civilians have been targeted by both sides for over 75 years, neither side has much to brag about regarding their conduct.

I can only hope that America is not part of a multinational peacekeeping in Gaza after the current war ends. Seems like something we should stay far, far away from.

There are credible allegations that Netanyahu has paid Hamas leadership for years to oppose a two-state solution.

He ranks with Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump on the Vile Leaders Wall of Shame.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
How can you claim that Netanyahu is the obstruction to a two state solution when (as quoted) the Palestinians have been unwilling to accept it?

I can get that some Israeli acts cause hatred on the part of some affected Palestinians.

But as has been well documented, the Israelis have repeatedly offered a two state deal that was quite generous (given the realpolitik lay of the land) it really is on the Palestinians and the folks they choose to represent them.

I don’t see why we should be particularly concerned about a horse that refuses to drink even though we have brought the water trough to it and filled it 3/4 full.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by DRG:


They are already killing Israelis.

They don't need an excuse.

What do you suggest, the Israelis just ignore the beheadings, rapes, murders of babies and old people.

I bet you think the invasion of Afghanistan and killing of Bin Laden was unjustified?

Don

Israelis killing Palestinians, Palestinians killing Israelis.

6 of one, a half dozen of the other.

I suggest a two state solution, something Bibi has been undermining for two decades.

I think the invasion of Afghanistan, the nation building specifically was unjustified. The killing of Bin Laden completely justified.

Plenty of blame to go around in this mess. The palestinians will not forget being driven from Palestine, you may want them to but from what I have seen that is not a likely outcome. Civilians have been targeted by both sides for over 75 years, neither side has much to brag about regarding their conduct.

I can only hope that America is not part of a multinational peacekeeping in Gaza after the current war ends. Seems like something we should stay far, far away from.

There are credible allegations that Netanyahu has paid Hamas leadership for years to oppose a two-state solution.

He ranks with Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump on the Vile Leaders Wall of Shame.

I am not calling you a lier. I am asking to provide a citation.

I do kit want the US to be part of ant peacekeeping, security action in Gaza.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:


There are credible allegations that Netanyahu has paid Hamas leadership for years to oppose a two-state solution.

He ranks with Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump on the Vile Leaders Wall of Shame.

quote:

Originally posted by DRG:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:


There are credible allegations that Netanyahu has paid Hamas leadership for years to oppose a two-state solution.

He ranks with Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump on the Vile Leaders Wall of Shame.

I'm no Bibi fan, but show me a credible source that says Bibi paid $ to Hamas to oppose a two-state solution.

You do know the cry "From the River to the Sea" is not a 2 state solution. It's to abolish Israel!!!!!

Geez, the shit one reads here......

Don

quote:

Originally posted by DRG:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:


There are credible allegations that Netanyahu has paid Hamas leadership for years to oppose a two-state solution.

He ranks with Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump on the Vile Leaders Wall of Shame.

I'm no Bibi fan, but show me a credible source that says Bibi paid $ to Hamas to oppose a two-state solution.

You do know the cry "From the River to the Sea" is not a 2 state solution. It's to abolish Israel!!!!!

Geez, the shit one reads here......

Don

quote:

Netanyahu's hawkish defence minister Avigdor Liberman was the first to report in 2020 that Bibi had dispatched Mossad chief Yossi Cohen and the IDF's officer in charge of Gaza, Herzi Halevi, to Doha to "beg" the Qataris to continue to send money to Hamas.

"Both Egypt and Qatar are angry with Hamas and planned to cut ties with them. Suddenly Netanyahu appears as the defender of Hamas," the right-wing leader complained.

A year later, Netanyahu was further embarrassed when photos of suitcases full of cash going to Hamas became public. Liberman finally resigned in protest over Netanyahu's Hamas policy which, he said, marked "the first time Israel is funding terrorism against itself."

quote:

During this long tenure, his approach to Hamas’ regime in Gaza has been largely leaving it alone — even at times propping it up as a counterweight to the Palestinian Authority that rules the West Bank, through measures like facilitating cash transfers from Qatar to the Islamist group. The basic idea, he reportedly said at a 2019 meeting of his Likud party, was that the existence of Hamas foreclosed a negotiated two-state solution to the conflict.

“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” he said in comments first reported by Haaretz. “This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
So just to be to be clear Jeff…

…you are asserting that Netanyahu personally pays or supports payments made to fund Hamas so that Hamas can keep up its attacks on Israel to keep Israeli citizens for supporting a 2-state position from Israel!?