quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
Hey man (plaintive wail), does this mean that I won't be able to sandbag either one of these idiots into a bet?

Re the politeness and civilization level on this forum, I find it about average or perhaps a little better. One of my most-missed forums was the old Shooters.com where some folks didn't call a spade a spade, they called it a father-stabbin' shovel! In spite of the vituperation it was still a good site. Nowadays one of the most polite and civilized is the doublegunshop.com site.

In every crowd, however, there are occasional clowns & idiots who come in (apparently from a few of the 'fringe' states, grin) to bedevil the rest of us. Maybe these 2 or 3 will tuck their tails and scuttle back up under the porch to be with their mother....
Regards, Joe

Sure, whats the bet? You seem to have a need to prove yourself quite a bit. I mean, do you really just walk around every day and find strangers and try to get them to bet with you? Rather freakin strange habit you got. I bet you don't get much takers with this strange approach.

And what in the world are doing running underneath your mother's porch with her. Are you sure, she is your mother? I am just sayin. You have some wild ideas. Not sure where you got em.

Since, I have been here quite a bit longer than than a troll like yourself, I doubt I would quit posting. Are you a moderator to tell folks to quit?

quote:

Originally posted by bigcountry:
Sure, whats the bet? You seem to have a need to prove yourself quite a bit. I mean, do you really just walk around every day and find strangers and try to get them to bet with you? Rather freakin strange habit you got. I bet you don't get much takers with this strange approach.

And what in the world are doing running underneath your mother's porch with her. Are you sure, she is your mother? I am just sayin. You have some wild ideas. Not sure where you got em.

Since, I have been here quite a bit longer than than a troll like yourself, I doubt I would quit posting. Are you a moderator to tell folks to quit?

I guess you haven't read the thread yet, otherwise you'd already know about the bet. Not very bright of you.

And I didn't tell him to leave, no, far from it! The guy has already, repeatedly, said that he was outa here but he just won't leave! Apparently you just don't pay attention, do you?

BTW if you want to take his side on the bet, it seems that there are several more posters here who will cover your end if you like.
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

quote:

Originally posted by bigcountry:
Sure, whats the bet? You seem to have a need to prove yourself quite a bit. I mean, do you really just walk around every day and find strangers and try to get them to bet with you? Rather freakin strange habit you got. I bet you don't get much takers with this strange approach.

And what in the world are doing running underneath your mother's porch with her. Are you sure, she is your mother? I am just sayin. You have some wild ideas. Not sure where you got em.

Since, I have been here quite a bit longer than than a troll like yourself, I doubt I would quit posting. Are you a moderator to tell folks to quit?

I guess you haven't read the thread yet, otherwise you'd already know about the bet. Not very bright of you.

And I didn't tell him to leave, no, far from it! The guy has already, repeatedly, said that he was outa here but he just won't leave! Apparently you just don't pay attention, do you?

BTW if you want to take his side on the bet, it seems that there are several more posters here who will cover your end if you like.
Regards, Joe

You said in your post, "I won't be able to sandbag either one of these idiots into a bet". Now I realize you were trying to get a total internet stranger to drive hundreds of miles to make some bet to get you something. Whatever it is your looking for in life. Maybe internet prowlness, or respect from internet posters. And no, I am not a child that needs validated like this by taking side bets. I am a grown man.

But whatever makes you sleep at night. I mean think about it, you can go to your children, and tell them how you put some man in his place on the internet. Won't they be so proud of thier daddy? They could jump up an down on the couch and tell thier daddy how he is so cool. Just painting a picture of real life for you.

But I never made claims on what I can shoot or not shoot. So why did you include me? You make no sense. Now, if you said, "I won't be able to sandbag RR into a bet" it would have made sense. I suppose your not paying attention as usual. And why again, are you sneaking underneath a porch with your poor mother? Man, thats just strange.

quote:

Ignored post by bigcountry posted 04 February 2011 02:37

when you have nothing to contribute!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Ignored post by bigcountry posted 04 February 2011 02:37

when you have nothing to contribute!

Grown man needs an ignore feature. You crack me up.

What was the original premise of this post again. I have read so much bullshit in the past few pages that I can't remember how the post started in the first place.

Good question!

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
What was the original premise of this post again. I have read so much bullshit in the past few pages that I can't remember how the post started in the first place.

Start on page 1.

It is amazing how a thread that started with a comment about a gunsmith who can produce super accurate rifles with any barrel ends up with all of this.

I think if you look up some of the IBS past matches you would see what true world accuracy can and is obtained on a frequent basis. Some of what has been discussed here is a bit of a stretch.

I was amazed at the Diabetes turn in this one as well as the thing about Saeed.

Oh well amazing to read threads like this on accasion.

BigB

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
Hey Vapo, Anyone knows that a guy that has over 3500 posts MUST know his stuff

I mean my god he shows the target right there

Ok for one lets put things in context.
1. they stated 1.5" @ 500 yards guaranteed. BS
2. A .34" group @ 750 yards is not unheard of but that by no means guarantees it can be done consistently. Same with a 1.4" 1000 yard .50 cal record. Sure it can be done but not day in day out even with the same loads and shooter. Thats best group not the average

And the pic of the .34" group is just about edge to edge on the holes. From Center to center thats about a .17 Caliber rifle You see there is nothing in the picture to denote size of the group. No dime, no ruler, no nada Hell he could say that was a 3 shot group at 1500 yards using a 50 and the group in .875" with nothing to compare the hole pattern to it means nothing.

Ask that dip to dig out that target and lay a ruler on it and you will see how fast he learns to use Photoshop

Or piss him off big time tell him his rifle has bedding issues.... It strings verticaly

Anybody with 3500 posts spends more time bullshittin than load developing. Only blonds and Obongo can multi-task like that. Still out on which one has the credability!

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
What was the original premise of this post again. I have read so much bullshit in the past few pages that I can't remember how the post started in the first place.

No problems, I can help you with that. Vapo got his feelings hurt and wanted to up his 25K post count, so he brought it here. Whats he up too now?

Then JD steele went out on the street trying to get people to bet him on something, anything, and everyone thought him a rather odd lady. So he came here trying to get internet posters to gather 1-5large and meet him somewhere armed. And then he was rather shocked when they didn't.

It just gets funnier and funnier.

ya'll done? i'm kinda bored... no bets, no blood, and no one even accepting a challenge JUST to prove they are right .. its like ladies night at the VFW ... sure, emotions run high, but i've seen higher odds ACCEPTED on tidddly winks... with less excuses .. though lots of whining about their lumbago and such ...

sounds like, near enough, to a fair fight to me.. two diabetics, both experienced men, in a field of honor, with a small contest to prove themselves with an impartial crowd, on a fair playing field .. how long can shooting a 10 shot group, twice, take?

.. oh, and the wager to two to make it interesting ...(psst, bigcountry ... covering a SIDE isn't a side bet... that's a main bet... the bet that neither of you would show up is a side bet.. which i could get no takers to cover the under on... wonder why?)

ahh, the good old days, when if a man boasted, and was called on it, he at least TRIED to prove himself ...

things change, i guess...

oh, me.. i forget.. some of these men are ABOVE petty competition ... and to whine about their families being damaged, when its an everyday thing for them to DO the feat ... tisk tisk ... sounds like there might just be a TINY element of risk there? perhaps taken out of one's microcasm, these shots aren't just a workaday thing .. no call for any fuss, why? they say " i just shoot 1/4 moa out to a mile with my ole thurtythurty ..."

why is it, ALWAYS, when asked to prove these extraordinary shooting skills, the excuse fly more than bullets? and then they belly ache when called names that infer they are less then honest...

ALWAYS...

and, yeah, i'd be lucky to hit a boxcar at 1000 yards .. i am fully aware of my own lack of long range skills ... i am entirely unsuitable to snipe at game past 200 yards ..

oh, mercy, i must just be reading into these things...

oh, btw, which of these two fine fellows would you guess was a bowhunter?



though this guy looks willing to shoot, any time, any where

To my understanding, the thread was about some outrageous claim that some gunsmith can guarantee 1.5" groups at 500 yards out of any rifle he builds or it won't leave his shop. Then RR and BC come in and say it's true and RR claims he can shoot 1.625" groups at 500 yards day in and day out...

J.D. calls their hand and backs it up with some cash and they hem and haw...

I want some of the action because it's like takin' candy from a baby.

I'm in for 5K and anyone else who isn't either knows nothing about shooting a rifle or doesn't like money!

Heck, I'd "bet the farm" on it and laugh all the way to the bank if I thought these jokers had a testicle left in their sack enough to make the trip and play show and tell.

A perfect rifle held in a vise fired in a vacuum with a perfectly tuned load to the barrel's harmonic node would be hard pressed to hold 1.625" groups at 500 yards.

Goobers.

It reminds me of the day I raised the BS flag on a guy that claimed he could shoot 3/4" groups at 200 yards with his original milsurp 6.5 Swede with the original iron sights.

Talk is cheap and especially when it comes from folks like this:

Cool, another one. I will make a challenge to you. Show me where I said RR can do this day in and day out. If your can't, your a lying POS. Or if you could show me where i said I could shoot anything other than a longbow. If you can't, your just another sorry internet lying POS.

Like taking candy from a baby.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
To my understanding, the thread was about some outrageous claim that some gunsmith can guarantee 1.5" groups at 500 yards out of any rifle he builds or it won't leave his shop. Then RR and BC come in and say it's true and RR claims he can shoot 1.625" groups at 500 yards day in and day out...

J.D. calls their hand and backs it up with some cash and they hem and haw...

I want some of the action because it's like takin' candy from a baby.

I'm in for 5K and anyone else who isn't either knows nothing about shooting a rifle or doesn't like money!

Heck, I'd "bet the farm" on it and laugh all the way to the bank if I thought these jokers had a testicle left in their sack enough to make the trip and play show and tell.

A perfect rifle held in a vise fired in a vacuum with a perfectly tuned load to the barrel's harmonic node would be hard pressed to hold 1.625" groups at 500 yards.

Goobers.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
It reminds me of the day I raised the BS flag on a guy that claimed he could shoot 3/4" groups at 200 yards with his original milsurp 6.5 Swede with the original iron sights.

Talk is cheap and especially when it comes from folks like this:

Oh, I remember that day. It was so cool. I bet that was the best day of your life. In your life, it probably doesn't get any better. I bet you feel such like a man now, that you stood up to someone on the internet.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
ya'll done? i'm kinda bored... no bets, no blood, and no one even accepting a challenge

Not even close. I look forward to 20 pages of posts myself. Nobody is forcing you to keep peeking in here and posting. See ya, bye.

quote:

JUST to prove they are right .. its like ladies night at the VFW ... sure, emotions run high, but i've seen higher odds ACCEPTED on tidddly winks... with less excuses .. though lots of whining about their lumbago and such ...

Ok, let me get this correct. You have been involved with internet posters bet others thousands of dollars, drive hundreds of miles to prove something. This is where I call you. Show us where it happened in the US. Just a thread will do. Unless, your being less than honest. This has to be with you doing the driving. Not driving around Tx either for a pussy bed.

quote:

why is it, ALWAYS, when asked to prove these extraordinary shooting skills, the excuse fly more than bullets?

ALWAYS...

Fair enough, show us internet threads you have flew hundreds of miles to prove your shooting skills with thousands of dollars on it. If you can't, then you understand. If you can, then I will give my appology. Just an internet thread will do. Thanks,

quote:

oh, btw, which of these two fine fellows would you guess was a bowhunter?

I am guessing thats your daddy on the left, and you on the right. Just a quick guess. Maybe you can drive hundreds of miles on the bet of 50 dollars to MD to prove us all wrong. Fair bet. Lets see if your a man or not

BC, you REALLY need to read the thread, you seem confused, to say the least.

I challenged RR on his brags and offered to bet him that he COULDN'T do what he claimed that he did on a regular basis. So far, he has declined the chance to make a lot of money(!).

Has absolutely nothing to do with your shooting or mine or anyone else's, only RR's claims about his own shooting ability.

And the fact that you are now reduced to the pitiful level of personal insult AND NOTHING MORE tells me that you REALIZE you've lost the logical end of the argument and are now trying to turn it into a pissing contest.

You REALLY SHOULD go back and read the thread, you're making a fool of yourself in our eyes.
You have a good day now, y'hear? Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by bigcountry:
Fair enough, show us internet threads you have flew hundreds of miles to prove your shooting skills with thousands of dollars on it. If you can't, then you understand. If you can, then I will give my appology. Just an internet thread will do. Thanks,
:

BC, you addressed this challenge to the wrong person (you STILL haven't read the thread, apparently) but I'll answer anyway.

No, I haven't had to travel to meet anyone to prove a bet, not even a mile. Why? Because the internet braggarts proved to be just barely smart enough to decide that maybe they were wrong after all. None have accepted my challenges.

Not one.

The first challenge took place on the old Shooters.com site on the Black Powder Cartridge forum, around 2000. The Coydog (Chuck Raithel, sp?) challenged me on one of MY claims about set trigger accuracy and I offered to bet him $1000. He was too smart for me though, he figured it out and declined. The Shooters site is now defunct but 'the rdnck' (Bill Bagwell, mentor on the Goex BP site) will recall this incident well, if you care to ask him.

DO you care to ask him? I double-dog-dare you.

Had basically the same discussion with Brent Danielson on one of our mutual sites, I forget which one. He, too, declined the bet.

If you care to ask Brent, I can put you in touch with him. Again, I dare you. Brent may be able to tell you which forum to look on for the proof, if you are doubting his story. Probably the ASSRA forum or some similar single shot site.
Hugs & kisses, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
BC, you REALLY need to read the thread, you seem confused, to say the least.

I challenged RR on his brags and offered to bet him that he COULDN'T do what he claimed that he did on a regular basis. So far, he has declined the chance to make a lot of money(!).

Has absolutely nothing to do with your shooting or mine or anyone else's, only RR's claims about his own shooting ability.

And the fact that you are now reduced to the pitiful level of personal insult AND NOTHING MORE tells me that you REALIZE you've lost the logical end of the argument and are now trying to turn it into a pissing contest.

You REALLY SHOULD go back and read the thread, you're making a fool of yourself in our eyes.
You have a good day now, y'hear? Regards, Joe

I honestly don't believe he can pull it off over and over. And I don't think he ever claimed to pull off 1.6" groups at 700 yards over and over.

Any shooter knows you have bad days. espeically over 500 yards. Some days, I drink too much coffee and can't hit the target at 500 yards and have to back up and figure out whats going on.

What you don't realize and can't grasp is what have I lost if I am making a fool of myself in your or jeffeo's eyes? I mean really? Its the internet. Man, you take this stuff too seriously. I am not even joking at this point. Think hard about it. Your worried about looking like a fool or looking good to faceless internet posters? You need some help.

So, with your logic your saying Jeffeo has lost logical end of the argument by posting an internet picture and then describing one as the bowhunter? This is just logic. I mean it is a personal insult, correct? I just responded. I myself am just having fun making you and jeffeo dance.

quote:

Originally posted by bigcountry:
I myself am just having fun making you and jeffeo dance.

The definition of a troll.
Regards, Joe

back-pedal
vb -pedals, -pedalling, -pedalled US, -pedals -pedaling, -pedaled (intr)
1. (Individual Sports & Recreations / Cycle Racing) to turn the pedals of a bicycle backwards
2. to retract or modify a previous opinion, principle, etc
3. (Individual Sports & Recreations / Boxing) Boxing to take backward steps

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

quote:

Originally posted by bigcountry:
Fair enough, show us internet threads you have flew hundreds of miles to prove your shooting skills with thousands of dollars on it. If you can't, then you understand. If you can, then I will give my appology. Just an internet thread will do. Thanks,
:

show you internet threads? big country has proved that the words in internet threads have various meaning, depending on how much the OP feels like they mean


I aint dumb enough to get into a pissing match, with thousands of dollars on the time, to prove my BS/BLUFF/BRAG .. BUT acutally -- .. i've put up MY money, and invited to fly the guy down ... and, to date, no one has taken my wager ... oddly enough, its to prove tracking and hunting skills, not SHOOTING kills ... and when they stopped and thought about it, and that they just might loose.. they decided against it .. funny that...

no need for an appology... but yeah, been there, done that... same dollars and guns situation


my mother told me.. your catfish mouth is writing checks your minnow ass can't cash. I understood that from the first time ...

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
back-pedal
vb -pedals, -pedalling, -pedalled US, -pedals -pedaling, -pedaled (intr)
1. (Individual Sports & Recreations / Cycle Racing) to turn the pedals of a bicycle backwards
2. to retract or modify a previous opinion, principle, etc
3. (Individual Sports & Recreations / Boxing) Boxing to take backward steps

quote:

Originally posted by bigcountry:
I honestly don't believe he can pull it off over and over.

you realize you are calling your buddy a liar, right? Hell, even *I* believe he can pull it off, over and over.. and said so in my first post on the matter..

What I don't believe is that he can do it, on command, outside of his special spot.

and, since he refuses to make a public presentation, in a PUBLIC range, he also knows he can't do it under anything but fixed conditions.

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

quote:

Originally posted by bigcountry:
I myself am just having fun making you and jeffeo dance.

The definition of a troll.
Regards, Joe

Whats cool is how at will I can get you and jeffeo to dance. You guys are great.

How many times has jeffeo said he is bored and not posting again? Too funny.

Then you got vapo on here, having to put people on the ignore list. Crack me up. Yea

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by bigcountry:
I honestly don't believe he can pull it off over and over.

you realize you are calling your buddy a liar, right? Hell, even *I* believe he can pull it off, over and over.. and said so in my first post on the matter..

What I don't believe is that he can do it, on command, outside of his special spot.

and, since he refuses to make a public presentation, in a PUBLIC range, he also knows he can't do it under anything but fixed conditions.

I don't know. Call him up and tell him, if your so interested in his skills. You seem obsessed with Ridge Runner.

Thought you were bored? too easy

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

quote:

Originally posted by bigcountry:
Fair enough, show us internet threads you have flew hundreds of miles to prove your shooting skills with thousands of dollars on it. If you can't, then you understand. If you can, then I will give my appology. Just an internet thread will do. Thanks,
:

show you internet threads? big country has proved that the words in internet threads have various meaning, depending on how much the OP feels like they mean


I aint dumb enough to get into a pissing match, with thousands of dollars on the time, to prove my BS/BLUFF/BRAG .. BUT acutally -- .. i've put up MY money, and invited to fly the guy down ... and, to date, no one has taken my wager ... oddly enough, its to prove tracking and hunting skills, not SHOOTING kills ... and when they stopped and thought about it, and that they just might loose.. they decided against it .. funny that...

no need for an appology... but yeah, been there, done that... same dollars and guns situation


my mother told me.. your catfish mouth is writing checks your minnow ass can't cash. I understood that from the first time ...

Ok, where's the internet thread?

I honestly believe that picture if of you and your pops. Thats just me, its up to you to prove different.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

one of the smiths that it seems I keep on retainer, builds superbly accurate long range hunting rifles, he says, if my rifles won't shoot 1.5" groups at 500 yards they won't leave my shop. I'll use any barrel you want but if you use lilja, hart, broughton, kreiger, or rock creek you'll make my job alot easier.

Does anyone buy this?

From "does anyone buy this to name calling and high capacity assault words, this has grown to five pages of assasination bullshit. No wonder you guys have posts numbering in the thousands. Do you guys actually do anything productive beside entertaining the troops on the forum.

I have a friend ( yeah, I really do) that takes his rimfire out , picks off black birds on the wing out to forty or fifty yards but can't hit the back stop on a 200 yd target. He's been talking about hog hunting for years but can't quite get himself to actually commit to a trip. I know his prowess with his 22, I've been amazed at his skill when I saw it happen many times but the 06 is deadly at 100yds and can't find the backstop at 200. It's all subjective.

Pretty soon we will have to buy tickets to view this entertainment forum.

quote:

Originally posted by bigcountry:
Cool, another one. I will make a challenge to you. Show me where I said RR can do this day in and day out. If your can't, your a lying POS. Or if you could show me where i said I could shoot anything other than a longbow. If you can't, your just another sorry internet lying POS.

Like taking candy from a baby.

Ridge Runner said it and I'll show it to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Ridge Runner:
....at 500 I can hold usualy 1.625 groups with both my long range rifles but my eyesight isn't the best due to age and a botched operation when I was a youngster

Lying POS, huh?


bigcountry



Let's make this happen.

I'll be, and I'm sure J.D. and Jeffe will be as well, happy to meet RR and you with the Gunsmith's Magic Rifle at an agreed upon location. Maybe it will be a first for all of us. We can post the results, which will be pictures of us three throwing $100 bills in the air.

Bring a big bag of money.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:

quote:

Originally posted by bigcountry:
Cool, another one. I will make a challenge to you. Show me where I said RR can do this day in and day out. If your can't, your a lying POS. Or if you could show me where i said I could shoot anything other than a longbow. If you can't, your just another sorry internet lying POS.

Like taking candy from a baby.

Ridge Runner said it and I'll show it to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Ridge Runner:
....at 500 I can hold usualy 1.625 groups with both my long range rifles but my eyesight isn't the best due to age and a botched operation when I was a youngster

Lying POS, huh?


bigcountry



Let's make this happen.

I'll be, and I'm sure J.D. and Jeffe will be as well, happy to meet RR and you with the Gunsmith's Magic Rifle at an agreed upon location. Maybe it will be a first for all of us. We can post the results, which will be pictures of us three throwing $100 bills in the air.

Bring a big bag of money.

Yes, a lying POS. I am not sure why there is such a problem with reading comprehension here.

But, there is a huge difference in what RR said he can do, hense the word "usually" and do it day in and day out, which is what you said. So, right now, your being less than honest.

Write RR and head up to the hills of WV. I bet he will meet you.

quote:

Originally posted by olcrip:

Hey now, you and I have always got along.

But I wouldn't count on it. They really can't help themselves. You just hide and watch. I see thier face turning red from here.

This bickering back and forth is getting to be entertaining. Has anyone checked lately if Frank Martinez is home and doing well? Has anyone heard from the Idaho Sharpshooter? Same old saw. Come on guys, call a truce and go out to the range and perforate some paper to get rid of this Cabin Fever crisis.

Hey JD and Jeff go ahead and bet both of them and if the contest is held in Raton, I will show up. Will shoot against both of them for score IBS LG rules on a side bet (2 relays with the top 2 in a shoot off winner take all).

I want to see how good they are and I will put my money in the pool. We will let 22WRF hold it---guy is pretty clueless about shooting but honest. Can even arrange for someone of impeccable qualifications and reputation to score the targets.

If the guy is as good as he says then I will just sponsor him (should be in the HOF in a couple of years) and then retire on the money I can make on marketing him in the industry!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is funny..

quote:

Originally posted by olcrip:
This bickering back and forth is getting to be entertaining. Has anyone checked lately if Frank Martinez is home and doing well? Has anyone heard from the Idaho Sharpshooter? Same old saw. Come on guys, call a truce and go out to the range and perforate some paper to get rid of this Cabin Fever crisis.

Your probably correct. Got like 30 slugloads I put together to test this weekend.

Hey, I have impeccable qualifications and reputation. Pick me. And too, unlike Obama, when I get bought, I stay bought.

Have y'all noticed that RR has gone back up the holler?? Or are you so busy arguing about him that you didn't realize he was gone?

You mean that he finally made good on his promises.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Hey, I have impeccable qualifications and reputation. Pick me. And too, unlike Obama, when I get bought, I stay bought.

Have y'all noticed that RR has gone back up the holler?? Or are you so busy arguing about him that you didn't realize he was gone?

DONE!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
You mean that he finally made good on his promises.

I wouldn't count on anything. Look at that guy jeffeo, he can't stay away. I know its just a matter of time before he posts. He still has to prove to total strangers that the picture he posted and possesses isn't just him and his pops. That challenge was laid out, so it just shows he was wrong.

And the sad part is he cannot read. Just sad.

Then you got this goof jd who goes around under the porch with his mother. Who knows what that is about.