For years Accurate Reloading was one of the best and most informative places to go to read and post hunting reports, discuss arms and ammunition, and to gain and share useful information on guns, loads, hunting, and the shooting sports. Sadly, those days are gone.

Today, AR has morphed into a highly political forum. It is filled with hateful diatribes and hateful spam. The administration has not only allowed its conversion into a political toilet but has encouraged it. One troll in particular "owns" the website. No other forum on the internet would allow anyone to do this sort of thing: http://forums.accuratereloadin...Type=1&search=Search . None, nada, no alt-left, alt-right, vegan, cultist, even devil worshiping site would allow it.

Some of the members who participated the most in the past have become all but silent now, some have truly gone silent. There still remain some very good people active and posting in the non-political areas of AR. But the non-political activity continues to wane and the posts are fewer and farther between. I can only guess that their interest in the site is also waning and that they are doing other things, including spending more time at other hunting and shooting websites.

Photobucket's blackout has made things worse. Many, many members who used to post photos with their commentary are no longer willing to post anything with pictures. Who can blame them, after all, ten years worth of photo-filled posts have lost all images. A HUGE portion of AR has lost meaningful and interesting content. Political posters, on the other hand, have no trouble finding pictures and photos they can link from various online political and journalistic websites. That means the Photobucket blackout has impacted posting of new hunting and shooting posts but has had no impact on political posts. Thus, Photobucket has unwitting helped AR move further away from a hunting and shooting interests and solidified it more as a political forum.

An interesting thing has happened along the way. When AR was administered, it surely no longer is, the language used and the slights issued to other members were of a much more civilized nature. But since the administration has let the gloves come off, the true personality of some members has been allowed to emerge. It is now plain to see that some of them are nothing other than vile, hateful, petulant, and childish imps. The masks have come off and some of the faces are really ugly.

Thankfully, not every AR poster is that way. In fact, most are not. We still have some of the lingering stalwarts hanging on. No doubt they remember the better days of AR and they likely hope for things to get better, for the trolling and spamming political scum to subside. They continue to participate in the hunting a shooting areas but to a lesser degree. But AR has a large number of members we only hear form rarely now. Perhaps they check in from time to time, perhaps not.

We must also consider the "visitors". Some are members who haven't logged in. Most are probably non-members coming to AR. Why would they come to AR, what would drive them here? They are coming to read the posts, check out the forums, or following a link to an article from some other website. They are not coming here because they searched for a load, hunt reviews, an outfitter, rifle write-ups by entering a term or phrase into a search engine. AR content doesn't come up in search engines. What does come up in search engines is links and references to AR from other websites. Someone talks about AR or posts regarding AR and provides a link. What this tells us is that new people are coming to AR because of the AR content being shared by others. I wonder, as the percentage of political content grows, is the number of people visiting AR for its political content growing? Does that mean the number of people visiting AR for hunting and shooting content is shrinking?

I hope that things are temporary and that AR will once again become a prominent hunting and shooting site. As long as there are interesting hunting, shooting, loading, and firearms activity I will continue to visit AR, even though I find myself among those coming less often. I am sure I am not alone.

This I do know, people tend to visit and participate in websites where they have a common interest. That's why AR is gaining the interest of ill mannered political hacks with a common agenda and losing the interest of hunters and shooters.

Will AR continue into obsolescence with nothing meaningful to offer hunters and shooters? Or, will AR regain its lost glory? If it is to be the latter then AR has its work cut out for it. While it has been sliding backward many other shooting and hunting sites have been moving forward. AR could still come back. Or maybe its to be the former, and Saeed is no longer interested in hosting a hunting and shooting website but chose the new direction because he wants AR to become a political sewer. Time will tell.

Since Edmond, who seems to be the main object of your vitriol, rarely posts outside the PF, why don't you just avoid visiting the PF, like most forum members do? Or simply put him on "ignore"? Seems like a pretty simple solution to me.

What vitriol? I wrote nothing vitriolic. Has the bitterness of the site infected you, too?

It's not just Edmond, even though he just shotgun posted the same article in over two dozen threads and even though he epitomizes the way things have gone. No, the entire site is on its way to becoming a purely political site, and a vile one at that.

As to encountering posts in the Political Forum, like many, many members I use the Find|New Since Your Last Visit link. It shows all posts since the last time visited, including those posted in the Political Forum and those of people on ignore.

To the point, the content of, and participation in, the site has shifted primarily to political posts. AR is on the way to becoming obsolete as a hunting and shooting site. It's sad to watch and I hope it doesn't happen.

Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect?

The old saw about not wrestling with a pig comes to mind. You know, the one where the punch line is "because you get covered in mud and he enjoys it." Life's too short to argue with those who are neither intelligent nor rational. The simple truth is that anonymity emboldens a certain type of man and only moderation will keep the imbecilic in check. That said, there's an exceedingly fine line between good moderation and the simple suppression of those with whom we disagree, and the argument that the best solution is a liberal use of "Ignore" has great appeal.

It's also true that there's a seasonal decline in hunting interest during the summer, while aggressive idiocy is always in season, so that may contribute to the "New Posts" search results that you've experienced.

I don't agree. Saeed has provided a special room where folks can vent their frustrations and radical ideas but by and large, AR is still the best forum available for the newbie. And the old timer for that matter.

I don't visit any other hunting forums on the web, although there are many. I can find valid hunting advice on AR if I'm looking for it. I can find valid advice on other subjects on this thread and others. I've not been unduly attacked on any thread other than the Political one. There is minimal spill over from the Political thread. (I'm overlooking a few jabs and upper cuts from Gato. Some of them may, I say MAY, have been earned, but in all likelihood Gato was probably just wrong. I think we can all agree on that.)

While I agree with Edmond most of the time his carpet bombing does tend to make me overlook many of his threads....but that's just me.

I don't see AR headed down the same road you do. Quite frankly I don't Hunt and Shoot as much as I used to, but I do tend to Bitch more as I get older. I suspect I am becoming obsolete, but AR.....Nah!

quote:

(I'm overlooking a few jabs and upper cuts from Gato. Some of them may, I say MAY, have been earned, but in all likelihood Gato was probably just wrong. I think we can all agree on that.)

Your wife thinks you're funny, but she sleeps with you. Enough said.

quote:

I don't agree. Saeed has provided a special room where folks can vent their frustrations and radical ideas but by and large, AR is still the best forum available for the newbie. And the old timer for that matter.

quote:

I don't visit any other hunting forums on the web, although there are many. I can find valid hunting advice on AR if I'm looking for it. I can find valid advice on other subjects on this thread and others. I've not been unduly attacked on any thread other than the Political one. There is minimal spill over from the Political thread.

While I agree with Edmond most of the time his carpet bombing does tend to make me overlook many of his threads....but that's just me.

I don't see AR headed down the same road you do. Quite frankly I don't Hunt and Shoot as much as I used to, but I do tend to Bitch more as I get older. I suspect I am becoming obsolete, but AR.....Nah!

Two really good and accurate responses. For its "Faults", nobody is forced to participate in ANY particular topic area, everyone has the prerogative to either simply ignore someone or use the Ignore feature.

Having been on sites with Draconian moderation, AR is a lot better. The only fault I find with AR is the increasing amount of open hostility that seems to be bleeding over from the Political Forum into other topic areas.

I think if everyone would simply realize that others have/has/had their own experiences, have their own beliefs and opinions and they are entitled to them.

Gren, I don't use the "what's new" post list on this or any other forum, so I therefore avoid even seeing the PF traffic.
In the 17 years I have been on AR, I have had a few periods of participating in the PF -- such as this last election cycle.
I am largely ignoring it now and am a happier AR user as a result.
I'll agree the traffic in the other forums seems to have slowed a bit, but there is still enough to pique my interest. I still much prefer AR over any other Africa/rifles/hunting forum. Cannot stand 24-hour Campfire.
Now, please excuse me, as I have to go and see what RIP is up to today.

One aspect I have noticed on here and other hunting/gun related sites, is that with several or many long time members, it is just really hard to keep rehashing why a .270 is not a good choice for Elk or add about umpteen other discussions that have no actual definitive answer.

ARPF has gotten a little tiresome, and I've rediscovered the other parts of the forum. I don't have much new to say, but rehash some of the old stuff anyhow.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
One aspect I have noticed on here and other hunting/gun related sites, is that with several or many long time members, it is just really hard to keep rehashing why a .270 is not a good choice for Elk or add about umpteen other discussions that have no actual definitive answer.

one constant, things change!




A purely personal observation.


Seventeen years ago I was 48 years old. I had a lot more energy and was making a lot more money. Conversely I had a lot less reloading, shooting and hunting experience. A/R was pretty much in its infancy. Although I might have been taking 10 different print magazines about precision shooting, handloading, accurate rifles, guns and hunting, varmint hunting and small caliber news, the ability to get on the net and have basically "real time" interaction was a new medium that had not been available to me before.

other factors

Hunting has gotten quite a bit more expensive over the last 20 years. Look at the price of a decent elk/mule deer/bear hunt. A lot of young folk, who are raising families, even if they are hunters, cannot afford $5,000, $10,000, etc. for a hunt.


Quite a few gents that were "the real deal" and had "been there and done that" have either got tired of folks that do not have near the experience have simply quit arguing/posting or have gone on to the happy hunting grounds.

I used to post quite a bit in multiple forums here. Nowdays, its every so often. I've an interest in custom knives, hog hunting and politics.
Most of my posts these days are in the three forums that deal with those topics.

Personally I probably spend over $10K a year on just perforating porkers. But I get to go to my lease 15 to 20 times a year, not just once, and its DIY, don't have to be led around by a guide, deal with the TSA, or be compelled to get up and hunt if I've overdone it the night before. I've reloaded for 82 different chamberings from 17 ackley hornet to 458 lot, using scads of bullets from different manufacturers and have killed truckloads of critters.

From years of shooting and killing, I know what caliber and what bullets work and what velocities to shoot those bullets. As Randall said, illustrating the results and arguing no longer interests me enough to take the time to post.



Then there is the subject of folks being banned. I remember when the Small Game Forum was a scream. Before "the massacre", Digital Dan and the crew with their stories of "crats" kept me in stitches. Dan and some of the gang still post on 24hour campfire (where I have hung out more over the last 9 years) and they are still full of hi-jinks. I've been banned/put in time out 3 times IIRC, and would have been gone long ago if not for DRG's intercession. Can’t tell you how many guys have got nuked due to their crater participation when Walterhog was the moderator.


I never participated in the ARPF "Crater" until around 2007 to 2009.

Participation in the Crater does several things for me.

I quit watching all network TV except news about 20 years ago. Since the last election cycle I've pretty much quit watching all TV. I find that I can get all the info I want/need hours or even days before a news reader recycles it on the tube. Bashing “furriners” and libs/progs and marx-0-crats (as I’ve taken to calling them) is quite entertaining, as long as one keeps the right perspective.


There is a certain amount of anti-American flavor to the “crater”. I like to counter-act that flavor with “seasoning” of my own making. To do that I must read. Reading and posting is both entertaining and educational. It keeps me current in regards to what’s happening culturally in the USA and to a degree world-wide.

So, having said that,

Thanks Saeed for providing such a grand adventure (with no advertisement).

Thanks DRG for saving my “bacon” on so many occasions.

See ya’ll in the swamp!


Ya!

GWB

just accept the good and ignore the rest. trolls just hate being ignored and then they leave

Google is blocked from crawling the site, so threads won't appear in Google results except in secondary references.

The Political Forum is for anti-U.S., anti-Christian, anti-West, anti-Republican screeds.

As I've said before, it exists for the entertainment of the site owner. Any rational discussion there occurs strictly by accident and will certainly soon be derailed by one of our resident idiots.

If you understand that, you will avoid the ARPF and find inner peace.

As for the most prolific and venomous posters there, perhaps they are hoping to get a free safari or hunt booking out of their vitriolic posts. I put them on my ignore list a long time ago; I've got scores (literally) of users on it, many of them aliases for the same smear merchants.

As for the other forums, how many times must we discuss the same topics because someone is too lazy to search for earlier threads containing answers to all their questions?

• Dozens of threads on tipping.
• Hundreds of threads on first safari recommendations.
• Hundreds, if not thousands of threads on the appropriateness of a particular rifle/cartridge for Cape buffalo.
• Thousands of threads on push-feed vs. CRF, .45ACP vs. 9mm, sidelocks vs. boxlocks, etc.
  

Some folks just check in on the outside chance that something of genuine value has been posted.

As for Photobucket, they offered a free service for over a decade. Any complaints about them finally charging for it are unwarranted - they have a business to run, and you can store your photos elsewhere. Inconvenient? Certainly. Unfair? No.

George

Damned fine post there Mr. George!

.

A very thoughtful post.

I do, however, wonder at those who seem to avoid participation in any topic to which this site is ostensibly dedicated: hunting and shooting.

Certainly dumping those who can't manage to post 20% of the time on topical issues wouldn't be much of a loss to the community.

Not mentioning any names ...

quote:

I do, however, wonder at those who seem to avoid participation in any topic to which this site is ostensibly dedicated: hunting and shooting.

The possibility is that it is the only site where they can express their opinions in their "Own Words"!

Having been on other sites and banned from a few, on the whole AR is more open minded/lenient than others I have participated on. Sometimes it does seem that Moderation is a little too open, but at least people get to express their opinion.

On sites I have been on, many were geared up so that all the members either shared the basic beliefs/opinions of the moderators or were shown the road pretty quickly.

One aspect about AR that I find somewhat troubling is that the attitudes that crop up in the appear to be leaking over onto other topic areas.

Regardless of the opinion garbage on ARPF the most troubling thing is there is a breakdown in truth. Facts, reality and rationality have broken down - the scares me. Cause if people make up facts they are either liars or idiots.


The rest of ar does not toreate lies - tough crowd but ar crowd picks out frauds fast.

Mike

You know, this is America by god. If you don't like something, don't/look/read/participate/watch, or participate if you wish. You don't have to do either.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

The possibility is that it is the only site where they can express their opinions in their "Own Words"!

SNIP

On sites I have been on, many were geared up so that all the members either shared the basic beliefs/opinions of the moderators or were shown the road pretty quickly.

For the record, I share your views on most moderation; you are exactly right. On the first point, I can only observe that if all you want to do on AR is discuss politics, then you should probably move on to a political discussion site and take your best shot there. To my mind, the correct use of the PF is by actual site participants who take active interest in hunting/shooting/reloading. As an example, I'll point out Gatogordo and Blair_338RUM, both of whom can be plenty grumpy and highly caustic, and appear to have profoundly different world views, but, nevertheless, are active participants in the primary focus of this board. I don't begrudge them their caustic grumpiness in the least.

Those who visit this site simply to promote a non hunting/shooting/reloading agenda of some sort are no addition to this community.

quote:

For the record, I share your views on most moderation; you are exactly right. On the first point, I can only observe that if all you want to do on AR is discuss politics, then you should probably move on to a political discussion site and take your best shot there. To my mind, the correct use of the PF is by actual site participants who take active interest in hunting/shooting/reloading. As an example, I'll point out Gatogordo and Blair_338RUM, both of whom can be plenty grumpy and highly caustic, and appear to have profoundly different world views, but, nevertheless, are active participants in the primary focus of this board. I don't begrudge them their caustic grumpiness in the least.

Those who visit this site simply to promote a non hunting/shooting/reloading agenda of some sort are no addition to this community.

Have you expressed those thoughts to Saeed or Don and gotten THEIR opinion???????????

The inmates are NOT running this prison. How many of us REALLY want to attempt to force Saeed to change how things are done?????

Can I have a couple of days to sell tickets and gather a crowd?????????

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Have you expressed those thoughts to Saeed or Don and gotten THEIR opinion???????????

The inmates are NOT running this prison. How many of us REALLY want to attempt to force Saeed to change how things are done?????

You mistake my intention. This site belongs to Saeed and he runs it as he sees fit. This was a discussion of what might be rather than what is. I have almost no skin in this game. I have enjoyed the use of AR and the information it provides, but I've used and enjoyed a number of other online hunting related forums. Opinions were expressed and I offered mine to be embraced or ignored as you please.

The purpose of my post was not to define what AR should be or to say what Saeed should do with it. Simply, we have no say in those.

Instead, I was pointing out what AR was and what AR is rapidly becoming. We caught a glimpse of the old AR when Don banned everyone from the Political Forum (I found it refreshing). The internet already has more than enough political cesspools frequented by trolls but, sadly, that's what AR is rapidly becoming. I, for one, hope AR returns to its previous status and I hope the primary activity on AR returns to hunting and shooting. I don't expect it will, but I can hope.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Since Edmond, who seems to be the main object of your vitriol, rarely posts outside the PF, why don't you just avoid visiting the PF, like most forum members do? Or simply put him on "ignore"? Seems like a pretty simple solution to me.

That idiot Edmond is loathsome, he's ruined the ARPF. He's worse than DaMan was.

DaMan was easy to bait due to his general stupidity,it gave good comic relief.Edmond is not worth the price of the powder to blow him up.But thats why we make Fords + Chevys.Thank God that in America we can still disagree without repurcussions from the powers that be.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Since Edmond, who seems to be the main object of your vitriol, rarely posts outside the PF, why don't you just avoid visiting the PF, like most forum members do? Or simply put him on "ignore"? Seems like a pretty simple solution to me.

Agreed, if you go into the Political Forum and it offends you, then don't go in there.

I posted in that forum one time when the 2008 US Supreme Court ruled on Washington DC V Heller and said then that I would never go in there again, and I haven't.

quote:

You mistake my intention. This site belongs to Saeed and he runs it as he sees fit. This was a discussion of what might be rather than what is. I have almost no skin in this game. I have enjoyed the use of AR and the information it provides, but I've used and enjoyed a number of other online hunting related forums. Opinions were expressed and I offered mine to be embraced or ignored as you please.

I was not even thinking about any possible intentions, just merely stating that Saeed seems to be enjoying the way things are going and I don't see that changing.

Have participated on several sites, most of them regional/Texas based sites, even with the faults so many are finding with AR, I think it is still better than everywhere else I have participated on.

Yes, the Crater is a problem, but only if a person let's it be. One problem I see with AR, if it actually is a problem, is the concept that there is a limit to how many times people can hash out how much better a .30-06 is, than a .270 for shooting Mulies or Elk, or how to pronounce Blaser and why they suck and the list goes on.

Don't know that I've ever been on the Political Forum. Sounds like I'm better off :-)

Jon, you are indeed better off without the ARPF, believe me.
Remember the line from the Three Dog Night song "Mama Told me not to Come":
"I seen some things, I ain't never seen before,
I seen some things I don't wanta see no more."

Sums it up nicely.

A person can look at it this way, they can pretend that politics does not or will not affect them or their families, or they can monitor what is being said, without getting involved.

Admittedly, the "Crater" has taken on a Life Of Its Own, over the past two years, but I don't believe it is the ONLY source of the change that has been affecting the whole Accurate Reloading site. JMO.

For me, Internet Forums have declined significantly over the years. In 1994 I became "serious" about hunting and shooting and in 1997 I discovered the old Shooters Forum. In 2000 or 2001 I followed the mass migration to 24 HRC. From then until 2006 24 HRC was a great place. People genuinely were helpful and the majority of interaction was civil. Sometime around 2006 that changed. A small group of posters began setting the tone of interaction and things started going to shit. Needless conflicts arose and civility was rare.

I became involved in a conflict with Gatogordo that was based on a misunderstanding we could not reconcile in the environment at that time. I still regret that. By 2009 things had deteriorated into stupidity, and because I had developed Gulf War Syndrome I didn't have much of a filter in ANY social situation. Instead of staying on the high ground, I started acting like the idiots I despised. I wound up laying one of them out in the most hurtful way possible. Boy I sure showed him........that I could be more belittling and insulting than the worst of them.......what a badge of honor. I decided no longer belonged on 24 HRC and left. I did later apologize to the affected individual who was gracious enough to accept it.

I tried to find another forum for a while but none could keep me. For the longest time I posted only in the AR classifieds. I tried to be part of the AR Double Rifle forum and the AR Reloading forum but I ran into shit there, and I just don't tolerate shit anymore. I was stupidly drawn into the crater about a year ago. It seemed okay until Edmond started his massive spamming campaign.

Maybe it's just me. Playing Lead Trumpet in a jazz band has become my most significant "hobby", but I do not post in an Trumpet forums anymore. I figured out how to play in the extreme upper range of the horn, something few figure out, and I got tired of those who couldn't do what I was doing telling me I was doing it wrong.

Forums now are almost an afterthought. I use them to research but don't post much anymore. I am still trying to figure out if the handful of outstanding individuals I have met on the Internet offset to mountain of shit I have run into.....................

Somehow I think we were better off before the Internet...................

This site was started by a group of shooters, whose interests include hunting, target shooting and plain plinking. The idea was to share what we have learned from hunting, reloading, gunsmithing and any other shooting related ideas. We are not affiliated to any company involved in the shooting and hunting sports. So what you will find here are our actual experiences, good or bad. If you have any interesting ideas, or if you have come across anything you think might be of interest to other fellow shooters, please consider sharing it with us, we would love to hear from you.

Moving away from the core competency nearly always results in the demise of a previously successful enterprise.

How many of those original members are still active on here?

I agree that AR now, the Whole Site, not just the Crater has changed. Others will see things differently, but to me the real changes manifested themselves at the same time as the 2016 American Presidential campaign got into full swing.

I plan on staying as long as I find things interesting. One aspect some may not want to address concerning the changes that have taken place on here is that some of the older members have either passed, or in failing health and lots of the younger hunters today are simply not as interested in the type hunting us older guys were.

Yes, "some of the older members have either passed, or are in failing health". But I think there are more than enough younger hunters today interested in hunting to replace them. Just imagine what those younger hunters must think when they visit AR for the first time, take a look at the Active topics, and see the site inundated with vile insults, name calling, spamming, and trolling.

I don't know Grenadier, from what I am seeing around this area, younger hunters are more interested in the gimmicks/gadgets.

Hunting itself, at least here in Texas, has changed so much that a lot of younger hunters do not have places to hunt. A lot of hunters have simply been priced out of the market.

If it wasn't for having been a long time friend of the man I work, before I went to work for him, there was a 5 year or so span that I would not have had a chance to go deer hunting.

One of the reasons I stopped hunting Whitetail Bucks was simply because I could not afford it, does I could find people that would let me shoot a doe or two.

AR still has its place, but maybe not for those of us that have 20, 30, 40 years or more of hunting experience, we are reaching the point where not only are we slowing down and our contemporaries are beginning to die off, those coming along behind us are more interested in instantaneous gratification and not having to spend anymore time than necessary to achieve their goals and then all too often move on to the Next Big Thing.

Simple fact of Human Life, things change whether we want them to or not.

We have to be careful, Crazy, about drawing wide reaching conclusions from local observations and things we see in our individual small spheres.

The data indicates otherwise.

USFWS data, Paid Hunting License Holders (https://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/s...enseinfo/Hunting.htm)

2017 - 15,486,123 (must be an estimation?)

2016 - 15,413,638

2015 - 14,843,895

2014 - 14,597,091

2013 - 14,631,237

2012 - 14,960,522

2011 - 14,974,534

2010 - 14,448,040

2009 - 14,453,794

2008 - 14,623,598

2007 - 14,575,484

2006 - 14,726,427

2005 - 14,679,041

2004 - 14,966,406

2003 - 14,740,188

2002 - 14,966,406

2001 - 14,996,205

2000 - 15,044,324

1999 - 15,144,608

1998 - 14,888,663

1997 - 14,906,826

1996 - 15,144,303

1995 - 15,232,793

Further, with the massive increases in guns sales and coincidental increases in NRA membership over the past several years, I think it safe to say the the number of people owning and shooting firearms has increased substantially.

AR is not losing viewers and active participants because of a waning interest in shooting and hunting. Simply put, for most people AR has become an objectionable place to visit.

.

quote:

Further, with the massive increases in guns sales and coincidental increases in NRA membership over the past several years, I think it safe to say the the number of people owning and shooting firearms has increased substantially.

AR is not losing viewers and active participants because of a waning interest in shooting and hunting. Simply put, for most people AR has become an objectionable place to visit.

You may be right, but the increases in gun sales and people owning and shooting guns, may not have anything to really do with hunter numbers.

I also feel that the problems AR is having(?), have more to do with the increasing partisanship that is affecting Americans and the World in general over the 2016 Presidential election in and of itself, and the outcome of the election.

People are demanding that everyone choose a side, there is no room for anyone taking a middle of the road stance.

I simply believe that there are more factors affecting AR than just the Crater and what happens in there.

For instance, it is July, middle of summer on North America, on other sites I have been on, participation normally drops off, especially with Americans when there are no hunting seasons going on.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

Further, with the massive increases in guns sales and coincidental increases in NRA membership over the past several years, I think it safe to say the the number of people owning and shooting firearms has increased substantially.

AR is not losing viewers and active participants because of a waning interest in shooting and hunting. Simply put, for most people AR has become an objectionable place to visit.

You may be right, but the increases in gun sales and people owning and shooting guns, may not have anything to really do with hunter numbers.

I included that because AR is not all about hunting. It is also about reloading, shooting, shotguns, rifles, handguns, gunsmithing, and all related subjects. Firearms ownership has increased. I would, under normal circumstances, expect the shooting population of AR to increase as well. Yet, the opposite is happening.

As to the number of hunters, that's why I showed you the USFW statistics. The number of "Paid Hunting License Holders", i.e. the number of US hunters, has not decreased. It's been roughly the same for the past twenty years!

It's plain to me why AR is languishing. Others may have a different opinion as to why that is happening. Regardless, the decline of AR is NOT the result of a decreasing number of hunters or shooters because the number of hunters and shooters is not decreasing.

quote:

As to the number of hunters, that's why I showed you the USFW statistics. The number of "Paid Hunting License Holders", i.e. the number of US hunters, has not decreased. It's been roughly the same for the past twenty years!

The numbers of hunters has not decreased, but it has not really increased either during that 20 years, how much has Americas and the World's population increased during that time?

quote:

Firearms ownership has increased. I would, under normal circumstances, expect the shooting population of AR to increase as well. Yet, the opposite is happening.

That can be attributed to the facts, that many new gun owners don't reload, upland bird hunters, especially Quail hunters numbers have declined, with the popularity of the AR style rifles the majority of those owning them do most if not all of their own gun work. I could go on with the things I see that has caused a decline in the interest of sites like AR.

I ain't saying that the attitudes that rule the Crater have not slipped over into other topic areas on this site, because they have. I just do not believe it has caused all of the lack of interest and recruitment of new members.


Age plays a large part along with changes in the economy. Hunting and everything related to it has become an expensive undertaking and on top of that it is time consuming, and in today's world lots of folks just don't have or want to take that much time out of their lives.

Many folks anymore simply can not just check out of life for a week or two or maybe longer.

Also, whether it is the fault of the Crater or Managements attitude, people just lose interest in the same old topics with just different participants.

I still believe it is just the natural decline that most sites suffer.

People are all enthused for a while but eventually it all turns into the same old regulars with the same old feuds and attitudes, arguing over the same old topics.

People have their buddies and their enemies and it really never changes, even when people leave one site and go to another, their reputation follows or precedes them, and the same basic old shit just follows them around the web from one site to the next.

Just take yourself and me, we basically do not get along, not sure why, but something about the way each of us post comments/responses, just comes across negatively.

AR having been around for as long as it has, is simply going to degrade, I think that is what is happening now and I am not sure that there is a SPECIFIC cause for it.

When I first joined AR I was on 4 or 5 other hunting/shooting forums and I kept inviting folks to check out AR and only a few did and they didn't like it.

I found AR because someone sent me a link for a video of someone shooting the 577 T Rex. I joined for hunting and shooting information. For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would enter into a political discussion on a hunting/shooting website. I won't.

There does seem to be some bad attitudes and some seem to be getting worse. Some are reluctant to post reports. I get it as the anti hunters are here watching everything posted here.

I have made a lot of friends on AR, some of which will be my friends for the rest of my life. There are some awfully good people here. There are also some total asses here. Calling one of those out got me sued along with a whole bunch of other people. I won but it cost me $285,000 in legal fees. Yes, there are serious asses here as well.

Are things declining? I don't know. Maybe people are just being a bit more careful with social media being what it is these days. I don't know.

Is AR obsolete? Not to me.