Grenadier,are you basing your findings on your own personal issues or are you for once dealing in an element of truth.?

Facts are facts - AR's ranking continues to drop.
This is based on the amount of internet traffic AR receives compared to other sites.

quote:

Grenadier,are you basing your findings on your own personal issues.?

YES!!!!!!!

His last comment was on 14-September, 24 days without a comment and then he posts a graph.

The last comment made by ANYONE was on 18-September, 20 Days ago.

Grenadier simply cannot A, get over getting his ass reamed, and B, understanding that No One really cares about his crusade to turn the site back to the straight and narrow.

It is amazingly simple, AR is going thru typical lack of interest on the part of many folks. Grenadier is simply placing the blame on the Crater and seems to believe that the Crater should be shut down.

I really do not see that happening.

Don't show Edmond and Geedubya that f*cking graph.

Grenadier is a knowledgeable individual and passes along really good information/knowledge in other discussion areas.

He went to playing in the Crater, got his feelings hurt and now he wants the Crater shutdown.

I really do not believe he can comprehend that Saeed and Don do not CARE about graphs. As long as people keep posting, regardless of the topic or language used, things are not going to change no matter how many ultimatums members put forth.

Yes, 24 days without a comment and then an update to the graph. I suppose you would prefer daily updates to the graph? You attack me for posting here and now you attack me for not posting here. How moronic!

Randall you are an old hobbling, surly, fat curmudgeon. You've never really been anywhere or done anything. Yet you pontificate as if you are well traveled, experienced in the ways of the world, and possess all the knowledge of the universe. I've got news for you. Being an important person in your little speck of the world doesn't grant you any importance at all in the rest of it.

You spew hateful, profane diatribes to silence the truth you don't want to hear spoken from those you don't want it spoken from. I am not the first person you have made such a campaign against and I will surely not be the last.

You continue to tell us without end that the website belongs to Saeed to do with as he wishes, as if even one person on AR didn't already know (duh!), but in the same breath you will speak for Saeed and tell us what he does and doesn't care about. Did he hand you the keys?

Your memory must be about a nanosecond long. Here you are again saying I have asked for the Crater to be shut down. You either are 100 percent the liar or you are 100 percent forgetful. I have never called for the crater to be shut down and I do not now. But the truth doesn't fit your narrative. Why are you so afraid of facing things as they are? Is it because you suspect your obnoxious behavior might be part of what drives people away?

Pontificate, flagellate, and castigate all you want, the facts are still the facts.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Grenadier is a knowledgeable individual and passes along really good information/knowledge in other discussion areas.

He went to playing in the Crater, got his feelings hurt and now he wants the Crater shutdown.

I really do not believe he can comprehend that Saeed and Don do not CARE about graphs. As long as people keep posting, regardless of the topic or language used, things are not going to change no matter how many ultimatums members put forth.

This----^





Just imagine a world where snow flakes could be free and happy in their insulated bubbles, just dare to imagine!

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Yes, 24 days without a comment and then an update to the graph. I suppose you would prefer daily updates to the graph? You attack me for posting here and now you attack me for not posting here. How moronic!

Randall you are an old hobbling, surly, fat curmudgeon. You've never really been anywhere or done anything. Yet you pontificate as if you are well traveled, experienced in the ways of the world, and possess all the knowledge of the universe. I've got news for you. Being an important person in your little speck of the world doesn't grant you any importance at all in the rest of it.

You spew hateful, profane diatribes to silence the truth you don't want to hear spoken from those you don't want it spoken from. I am not the first person you have made such a campaign against and I will surely not be the last.

You continue to tell us without end that the website belongs to Saeed to do with as he wishes, as if even one person on AR didn't already know (duh!), but in the same breath you will speak for Saeed and tell us what he does and doesn't care about. Did he hand you the keys?

Your memory must be about a nanosecond long. Here you are again saying I have asked for the Crater to be shut down. You either are 100 percent the liar or you are 100 percent forgetful. I have never called for the crater to be shut down and I do not now. But the truth doesn't fit your narrative. Why are you so afraid of facing things as they are? Is it because you suspect your obnoxious behavior might be part of what drives people away?

Pontificate, flagellate, and castigate all you want, the facts are still the facts.

Can you show the jury where he touched you on this teddy bear?

I see the uphill gardener is touting his kinderbait again.

Pontificate, flagellate, and castigate all you want, the facts are still the facts.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
I see the uphill gardener is touting his kinderbait again.

Pontificate, flagellate, and castigate all you want, the facts are still the facts.

Bless you, did the nasty man hurt your feelings?

Did he?

Did he?


Do you think part of the reason for your deranged view of the importance of your own opinion might be physiological instead of just because of your various personality defects?

Have you had a scan lately?

Quick question: In order to view AR must one first spend time in the PF? Meaning, like states where you have to kill a doe before killing a buck?


Ya.....I didn't think so. This thread is a very sad reflection on the OP.

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:
Quick question: In order to view AR must one first spend time in the PF? Meaning, like states where you have to kill a doe before killing a buck?


Ya.....I didn't think so. This thread is a very sad reflection on the OP.

Dude, you get it!

I get it!

Even Crazy gets it and his name is Crazy!

On the other hand it does give the rest of us a mental list of which posters are the sort of people one would avoid at dinner parties...

Norton, all I've done is point out that AR is losing interest in the universe of internet sites and I suggested the obvious conversion from primarily hunting and shooting discussions to heated political discussions with hateful personal attacks is the reason. That's all. It all seems pretty innocuous and matter of fact to me.

Yet, that simple fact and my suggestion really riles some folks. I don't really understand why. It's a silly response. The facts about the traffic ranking are indisputable. If someone disagrees with my assessment as to why that is happening then fine. Let's discuss that. Instead, a few immature hotheads have taken exception to me bringing it up at all. They simply don't want me talking about it. So, their reaction is to insult me, call me names, and ask me to stop. How childish is that? I mean, really, how childish.

Nobody has to read this thread or respond to it any more than they have to read or respond to any other thread in AR, including those in the PF. What the provocateurs fail to see is that all their nasty protestations and childish ranting are doing is exemplifying exactly what I have suggested is driving people away from AR.

I presented the facts and gave my opinion. If you don't like the subject don't read the posts and don't respond. It's as simple as that. If all you can do is insult me then all you're doing is showing your ass.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
It all seems pretty innocuous and matter of fact to me.

But this is what all nuts think.

They don't think "I know I'm not am Napoleon Bonaparte but will act like him until hospitalised anyway".

Brilliant reply relevant to the subject.

Yes, your ass is showing.

First psych inpatient: I'm Jesus Christ.

Second psych inpatient: You're not Jesus Christ.

First psych inpatient: How do you know?

Second psych inpatient: Because I'm Jesus Christ.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
I see the uphill gardener is touting his kinderbait again.

Pontificate, flagellate, and castigate all you want, the facts are still the facts.

Bless you, did the nasty man hurt your feelings?

Did he?

Did he?


Do you think part of the reason for your deranged view of the importance of your own opinion might be physiological instead of just because of your various personality defects?

Have you had a scan lately?

Ghu is usually the one with hurt feelings...pulling the race card...screaming racist...racist at the top of his lungs.

I believe maybe even some have been banned to preserve Ghu's feelings.

Grenadier.....I don't mean to insult you but I can't wrap my head around your premise. There are plenty of forums on AR that are 100% free of politics.....like 99% of them in fact. I've been on here a few years and haven't noticed much of a change.

I appreciate that, Norton. The change is there whether you have noticed or not. I am far from alone in my observations. It is indisputable that traffic is down and political and inflammatory posts are up. What changed was the ending of the previous level of reasonable moderation. At least that's what I attribute it to. Heck, just look at some of the childish responses in this thread. In times past some of the things said would have gotten a warning or time out from the moderators but not any more. And this thread's not even in the PF.

A visitor to AR would not see much different on the Forum home page. But a search for active or new topics results in a much higher percentage of political posts than there used to be. So, content has shifted. The tenor of that content has also shifted. It's full of all kinds of BS that would never have been allowed before, much of it nothing short of offensive spam and troll postings. People simply tire of that sort of thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Brilliant reply relevant to the subject.

Yes, your ass is showing.

That's right Mr. Bonaparte, everyone else's arse is showing...

Do you think that part of the problem is that people seem to lack a sense of humour online and get wound up far too tight?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
I see the uphill gardener is touting his kinderbait again.

Pontificate, flagellate, and castigate all you want, the facts are still the facts.

Bless you, did the nasty man hurt your feelings?

Did he?

Did he?


Do you think part of the reason for your deranged view of the importance of your own opinion might be physiological instead of just because of your various personality defects?

Have you had a scan lately?

Ghu is usually the one with hurt feelings...pulling the race card...screaming racist...racist at the top of his lungs.

I believe maybe even some have been banned to preserve Ghu's feelings.

You mean the people who are constantly racially abuse towards myself and other members are called out for it by more decent Americans than you?

Those guys?

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

Do you think that part of the problem is that people seem to lack a sense of humour online and get wound up far too tight?

No, I think it is just that you are an insulting dolt who can't keep up an intelligent discussion. There is nothing funny about calling people names and insulting them regardless of how many little smiley faces you post afterward. You're not being funny, you're just being childish.

I recently posted this in the Crater. It seems to fit this thread as well:

"posted 06 October 2017 21:24
SC recently posted a thread about going hunting. Posters who were nasty to each other started to have a friendly conversation and wished each other well. I found that I had a lot in common with a couple guys I considered idiots.

We all know how this works. No one knows who started it, but somewhere along the way someone called someone else an idiot or their idea stupid. Maybe it was just aggressive disagreeing filtered through an Internet Forum. Regardless, everyone falls into insulting those they disagree with and the ensuing toxic interaction feeds on itself.

I personally didn't used to be that way. I enjoy the hunting and shooting discussions too much, and there are too many good people here to let politics get in the way. So I am going to do my best to take the high road again. To not insult those I disagree with but to use my logic and reasoning ONLY when arguing my point.

Anyone else want to join me?"

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
I see the uphill gardener is touting his kinderbait again.

Pontificate, flagellate, and castigate all you want, the facts are still the facts.

Bless you, did the nasty man hurt your feelings?

Did he?

Did he?


Do you think part of the reason for your deranged view of the importance of your own opinion might be physiological instead of just because of your various personality defects?

Have you had a scan lately?

Ghu is usually the one with hurt feelings...pulling the race card...screaming racist...racist at the top of his lungs.

I believe maybe even some have been banned to preserve Ghu's feelings.

You mean the people who are constantly racially abuse towards myself and other members are called out for it by more decent Americans than you?

Those guys?

Nobody abused you Ghubert...except maybe in your mind. I am not sure how “abuse” could occur on an internet to an anonymous figure.

quote:

Yes, 24 days without a comment and then an update to the graph. I suppose you would prefer daily updates to the graph? You attack me for posting here and now you attack me for not posting here. How moronic!

Grenadier, if anything is moronic, it is your continued tantrum about an issue that the people in charge of this place do not give a Fat Rats Ass about!!!

Big Deal, the entire Accurate Reloading site tanks! It is going to happen at some point anyway. My biggest problem with you is that you are a knowledgeable person concerning guns and hunting and pass along a lot of really worthwhile information, but you are so damn intent on seeing the Crater shutdown that you try and blame normal internet activity on one topic area, and no one is buying it.

Maybe, just maybe, the biggest problem with the whole Accurate Reloading Forums site, is that so many of us have been on here so damn long, and not just the Crater, that with the exception of the Crater, there are few if any new "Discussions" concerning hunting/guns/reloading/ballistics etc. etc. etc. to be discussed that haven't already been discussed a thousand times.

We have developed our cliques/on-line buddies/pseudo friends and bitter enemies and that is why conversations go down hill, and not just in the Crater.

I have been on here since 2006, but during the past 4 years, the animosity level among the membership has steadily increased, across the board, not just in the Crater.

Many of the worst arguments I have seen or been involved in were NOT in the Crater.

Hide your face all you want and keep up with your whining.

Facts remains, No One forced you to get involved in the Crater, no one Forced you to join or stay on the site, and the PTB's aren't going to change anything.

Keep on posting your graphs about how far this place is slipping, it isn't going to effect anything.

After a hiatus of 24 days I simply posted an update to the chart. That was all. THAT WAS ALL!

But you jumped at the chance to try to shut me up. For what, posting an update to a chart after more than three weeks? YOU can't let it rest. YOU started into your whining again, Yes, YOU are the piddling whiner and you can't keep from coming back to this thread just to whine.

It really gets into your craw that I don't agree with you and, worse, you become unhinged because I don't go away when you tell me to. You just can't stand that. God, how arrogant! News flash, I don't report to you. What is your response? To whine and whine and whine about ME. Yes, you are the one whining. Like a little spoiled child. You aren't getting your way shutting me up so you whine about it and call me names. Yes, like an arrogant, sniveling, spoiled child.

You better prepare yourself, get an appointment ready with a therapist, because in three or four weeks I plan to return to this thread and post another update to the chart. OMG, did I just say that? Yes, I will post another update to the chart!!!!!!!

Who knows, maybe you'll stop your whining, insulting, profane, arrogant posts attacking fellow members for three or four weeks and the chart will begin going the other way.

I am not trying to shut you up by ANY MEANS!!!!!!

Does THIS look like I am trying to "Shut You Up":

quote:

Grenadier is a knowledgeable individual and passes along really good information/knowledge in other discussion areas.

Or how about this:

quote:

My biggest problem with you is that you are a knowledgeable person concerning guns and hunting and pass along a lot of really worthwhile information, but you are so damn intent on seeing the Crater shutdown that you try and blame normal internet activity on one topic area, and no one is buying it.

The ONLY concept I am trying to get across to your whole Crusade to shut down the Crater, is that it is nothing but a issue.

You were NOT forced to participate in the Crater, you were NOT forced to keep participating in the Crater and you were NOT forced to leave the Crater!!! It was ALL voluntary on YOUR part.

Point is, you still participate in other topic areas on the site and nothing you say is going to affect the Crater, so WHY are you still here???

The Accurate Reloading Forums will cease someday, but from my experience that happens on a regular basis to internet forums.

Why not just enjoy what you can of the site and wash your hands of the Crater.

The Crater is your windmill and you are determined to tilt at it, why would I want to shut you up? It is fun to see your angst on display concerning something that is not going to change.

You reveal yourself when you say, "my biggest problem with you is". Your arrogance knows no bounds. The truth of the matter is any noncompliance with you gives you problems. With so many people in the world to disagree with you, people who won't comply with what Randall says, life must be tough for you. Well, too bad, Sunshine.

quote:

...you are so damn intent on seeing the Crater shutdown...your whole Crusade to shut down the Crater......

My God how you continue with that lie. I don't know how may times I have told you that is not so but you continue to say it anyway. I wonder what alternate reality you live in. Take the challenge, Crazy, find and quote a post where I asked for the Political Forum to be shut down. Hopefully, that will keep you busy for a few weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier: Who knows, maybe you'll stop your whining, insulting, profane, arrogant posts attacking fellow members for three or four weeks and the chart will begin going the other way.

I guess that's wishful thinking.

As I said, "You better prepare yourself, get an appointment ready with a therapist, because in three or four weeks I plan to return to this thread and post another update to the chart. Yes, I will post another update to the chart!!!!!!! "

Post all the graphs and updates you want to, it is not going to make any difference.

You simply can not get it thru your ego, that NO ONE forced you to participate in the Crater, End of Story.

Yes, every time you post a graph or whatever concerning the eminent death of AR, I am going to respond to your post, because I can.

If it became clearly evident that your claims were valid, people might care but I bet the PTB's won't care.

This whole meaningless discussion revolves solely on your desire to have the Crater shut down and everyone knows it. Look at your CLAIM that the animosity/aggression/hostility among the membership in other topic areas, Is DIRECTLY a RESULT of the behavior of participants in the Crater.

Your whole premise is that the Crater has poisoned and is killing the Whole Accurate Reloading site!

You are the ONLY PERSON that cannot see what your motive is! You want the Crater shut down, and I do not believe that it is because you believe the Crater to be the downfall of Accurate Reloading, but because you got your ass reamed and you want retribution.

Why not be an adult and start an online petition and give the PTB's an ultimatum?

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting: You want the Crater shut down....

God, you're denser than a piss soaked mesquite knot! I do not want that and I have never asked for it. You insist on making things up. Let me spell it out for you, it's called lying. That's what you are doing and you seem to be quite comfortable doing it.

quote:

You are the ONLY PERSON that cannot see what your motive is!

But YOU can. A mind reader no less and you know my mind better than I do! That's delusional. Hilarious, but delusional. Really, you better take that quote to your next therapy session.

For your eminent benefit, only in the hope you will "get it" and for no other purpose, I will discuss what I would like to see. I would like to see reasonable moderation of AR, including the Political Forum, to limit massive spamming and repetitive posts that have no meaningful content, trolling, vile insults, personal attacks, and threats. I said reasonable and, yes, that's a subjective thing. But just about any level of moderation would be better than the lack of moderation AR has now. I would not like to see the Political Forum or any other forum removed from AR. I am not in any sort of campaign for this. That is NOT what this thread is about. I do not expect Saeed or anyone else to do anything at all regardless of whether I would like it done or not. Rather, I am now only pointing out what I would like to see because it is in total and absolute contradiction to what you claim I would like. Sorry, you just flunked Mind Reading 101.

This thread is here simply to inform interested parties on the declining status of AR compared to the rest of the internet, to highlight the trending shift in AR from hunting and shooting posts to political posts, a shift from intelligent discourse to vile rants and insults, and to discuss those issues. That is what this thread was started for.

Contrary to your idiotic rants this thread was not started to ask for any change to AR. Changing AR is not within my power but even if I had a voice in the matter I would discuss it with Saeed via PM or email rather than posting about it in an open forum.

Ironically, your posts here perfectly demonstrate the trends in AR I have been talking about. You don't post in this thread because you have anything meaningful to add to the discussion. You post here because it gives you another opportunity to call someone names, to insult, to pontificate, to feed your own ego. You are on the attack here, nothing else. That's your purpose and that's your habit. For every sane post you add you make multiple, insulting, and/or profane nasty ass attacking posts, all from the safety of your keyboard. You don't discuss. You insult.

Do you think it odd, Crazy, that you are the one member making the greatest effort to keep me from attributing the decline of AR to infantile, insulting, profane posts? Do you think it odd that you are the one most opposed to me making any posts in this thread? I don't think it's odd at all. It's all too clear and logical. How may times have you been warned about your bad behavior? How many times have you been given a time out? I think you want to shut me up because you like the freedom to act like a total jerk and you're worried someone might decide to moderate your ass.

What has happened to this thread is exactly what turns people off. The topic gets ignored and it turns into vile personal attacks and page filling pictures to highlight childish insults. People get tired of seeing that sort of thing. They really do. The numbers bear that out. It drives people away. It drives them away!.

It's too bad. This used to be a great place for hunting and shooting discussions. It still gets some good threads but the posts are fewer and you have to wade through absolute crap to find them. Then, when you do, you keep hoping a good discussion won't be driven into oblivion by a jerk with an agenda or a foul mouthed jackass picking a fight for entertainment. What a shame.

quote:

What a shame.

quote:

I do not expect Saeed or anyone else to do anything at all regardless of whether I would like it done or not.

Isn't it ODD Grenadier that all of those claims you are making/directing merely point out that you have a problem with anyone disagreeing with you!

On one hand you admit that Saeed and Don are not going to change anything, but that has not slowed you down in continuing your posting graphs and spreading the alarm.

Each and every member of the AR Forums plays a part in what is effecting the site, starting with Saeed and Don and going downstream from there.

I do not know why the animosity level has reached the level it has on here, I do not why some members of this site have decided that they need to attempt to moderate the site.

Why do members of internet forums develop hatreds toward other members, people they have never and most likely will never meet, simply over the persons wording of their comments/responses.

Why do some members of AR worry about how many posts or responses other members make? None of us pay any dues to participate on here!

The site has a wonderful ignore user feature, more people should avail themselves of it.

The site is simply experiencing the same slack period that all sites experience, the Crater is just being the Crater. Anyone remember DaMan/COOL/BBB/TOO and a few others.

There isn't any of us on here that don't make comments from time to time that we shouldn't, but it happens.

Maybe if we all took a few seconds to think before we respond to a comment/response that we have taken exception too or possibly misinterpreted, some of the fights would not get started.

How often do you or any of the rest of us read something INTO a comment/response that really isn't there?

How often do any of us respond to a post and someone else has already responded and our response comes in and seems to be out of sync with the discussion?

Summation is, I simply do not see things as you do on this issue. I also feel your idea of "Reasonable Moderation" would do more harm than good.

I have seen it happen on other sites, and many of those sites are no longer in existence and did not last anywhere close to as long as AR has.

I cannot change my past behaviors/comments on this site. I cannot guarantee that I will not respond to someone in an inappropriate manner in the future.

But I can say that while things do get somewhat out of hand on here from time to time, each of us are responsible for our own actions and the role we play in what takes place on here.

From my experience on forums, "Reasonable" moderation ends up being Draconian, and the site then dies.

Moderation of disruptive postings by dipsticks does not kill a web forum, it helps it survive.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

The site is simply experiencing the same slack period that all sites experience, the Crater is just being the Crater.
An 18 month diving trajectory is not a ""slack period"

Anyone remember DaMan/COOL/BBB/TOO and a few others. Yes. They caused big problems and disruptions but those people were dealt with. They were warned, then suspended, then banned BY THE MODERATORS.

....your idea of "Reasonable Moderation" would do more harm than good.....From my experience on forums, "Reasonable" moderation ends up being Draconian, and the site then dies. That simply is not true. I cannot think of even one successful forum where there is no moderation. In fact, the very reason some of the trouble makers have come to AR is because they are allowed to post here when no other site will tolerate their crap.

You say moderation kills a forum. So, let's see how some of those moderated sites are dying.

24hourcampfire.com is now 20 times more popular than AR and flurishing:



huntingnet.com/forum remains steady up near where AR used to be:



rimfirecentral.com remains up where AR was when AR was at its best:


Graybeard Outdoors has had a little fluctuation, but nothing like AR's swan dive, and it's now holding steady at about twice the traffic ranking of AR:



Your state's specific forums are doing great. Here's texashuntingforum.com:


and texasbowhunter.com:



Even little marlinowners.com, one of the heaviest moderated of all hunting and shooting sites (you'd call it Draconian), has become nearly as popular as AR was:



And here's AR again, for comparison, and note the graduated scale!:


If you got rid of the graduated scale, then AR's decline would look more like this:


Not only are other hunting and shooting sites flourishing but some of them are probably doing better by picking up traffic AR has lost.

Moderation of disruptive postings by dipsticks does not kill a web forum, it helps it survive.

This is like a dog chasing its tail.

Can someone explain the graph to me?

When I look at the numbers on it, it seems to be making the exact opposite point folks are claiming here... the y axis has higher numbers towards the center. It looks like an inversed number. 1 M is larger than 200 k.

Or is this measuring something else?

The graph shows the ranking of a website by the amount of internet traffic (visits) it receives compared to all websites. First place would be 1 and at the very top. It would be assigned to the website that received more traffic than all other websites. A website receiving enough traffic to put it in two-hundred-thousandth place would be at 200K. A website receiving only enough traffic to put it in one millionth place would be at 1.0M.

If, over time, a website's proportion of the Internet's traffic increases its graph goes up. If, over time, a website's proportion of the Internet's traffic decreases its graph goes down.

Up until about 18 months ago AR was one of the top 100,000 busiest websites on the internet. It held a tremendous appeal for the type of audience it drew. At that ranking less than 100,000 websites on the internet received more traffic (were more popular) than AR. Now AR ranks at about one million, meaning there are about 999,999 websites that get more traffic (are more popular) than AR. There are tremendously fewer visitors to AR than before and the number is getting fewer every day.

Bottom line, AR is moving toward obscurity and becoming less relevant to the internet audience it once appealed to. We can see that audience is still out there and they are visiting other shooting and hunting sites.

Do you want to know WHY I am on AR instead of ANY of the Texas sites?

Really simple, the Texas sites are, A, sponsored sites, not Independent like AR, and B, moderation on those sites Do Not Allow any departure from thew Group Think.

I know, because I belonged to the THF, and on that site, EVERYONE either goes along with the "Group Think" or they are banned. Last time I heard anything about that site, the mere mention of my name would get people banned.

That is the problem with REGIONAL sites, especially those that depend upon sponsors. On the Regional sites, cliques/gangs etc., however you choose to refer to them control the moderation, and ANYONE/EVERYONE that does not totally agree with EVERYTHING they believe, is banned at the first opportunity.

The main reason I like AR and have stayed with it, is in actuality Saeed and Don respect the First Amendment more than most or all of regional/sponsored sites.

Realistically, on Regional sites, Edmond would never have got past his first half dozen posts.

How can any site be meaningful, if it does not allow or promote differing viewpoints on issues?

Of those graphs you posted, how many are International in scope and how many are strictly American or Regional such as THF?

There is a lot of ground between total censorship and 100% hands off.

For several years AR thrived WHILE BEING MODERATED. The level of moderation seemed to be an agreeable level to all but a tiny handful of AR members and those were die hard trouble makers. Even though abusers and misusers of this site were dealt with, AR was very, very active and flourished. AR was moderated but it still did a great job of "allowing or promoting differing viewpoints on issues". The level of moderation that was being applied, whatever that was, worked and worked well for years.

Then things were loosened up considerably about a year and a half ago, and about a year ago it seems all moderation ceased. Some people began to act in ways that would not have been allowed in the past. Some people began to say things that would not have been allowed in the past. Those people started pushing the envelope to see what the boundaries are. Once they discovered that for all intents and purposes there are no boundaries they started acting in the most immature and abhorrent ways, in ways no other Internet site would allow, in ways that drive people away from the site. It's not free speech. It's a free fire zone. Thus the decline of AR.

Moderation doesn't equate to censorship. AR was successfully moderated for years and the membership at large never felt censured. Even you, Crazy, admit that AR allowed you to post while other sites turned you away and that was happening while AR was actively moderating posts. That doesn't sound like censorship to me.