Could it be, considering the time frame you listed that it had something to do with Trump's candidacy, and the polarizing effect it had on America and the World?

That may sound like a stretch, but again, given your time frame that is about the time Crater really got active.

Could another problem on here possibly be the ATTITUDES members develop toward each other members, based solely on differences of opinion on the various topics?

How can a person keep from taking derogatory comments directed at them from someone they have never met, likely never will meet, over an opinion on a subject, personal???

Why can't people simply state they disagree? Why do people get concerned over the number of posts another person makes?

I have my doubts concerning "Reasonable" moderation after my experiences on other sites since everyone's definition of "Reasonable" differs.

Maybe the first thing that would help this site is for members to grasp the concept of respecting others for being able to form/have and state their PERSONAL opinion on an issue, and not attack them simply because they don't agree with that opinion!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

Maybe the first thing that would help this site is for members to grasp the concept of respecting others for being able to form/have and state their PERSONAL opinion on an issue, and not attack them simply because they don't agree with that opinion!

On this we do agree. Unfortunately, I think there will always be some for whom that is an unrealistic expectation.

And that will always be the stumbling block.

I know that I have made comments to other members that I shouldn't have.

Some were made for no real reason, some were made in retaliation to comments that were directed toward me by another member.

Reality is, I was wrong in either case. Reality also is that practically every member of AR has been guilty of the same behavior at some point in time on here.

Question is, do the PTB's of the site have to treat us like school kids, or aren't we all old enough to moderate our own behaviors and simply either disagree with someone on a topic or use the ignore user feature or just not read or comment on comments/responses made by individuals we have developed a hatred toward.

If the PTB's aren't going to take steps to correct what is wrong, maybe they are waiting for the members to make the effort to police ourselves on some of the issues.

Responding to myself here, but what can the members of AR realistically do, to ease the problem.

Does anyone have realistic suggestions? I do not see that demanding some members be banned from the site as realistic, not even jokingly.

Would restricting how many posts/comments/responses any member can make in a 24 hour period help anything?

Would sending members that simply can not respond civilly to each other to banned camp for a designated period of time or permanently banning both do any good?

Would figuring out a method of getting ALL members to understand, that each member has been given the right by the Administration to participate on the site and personal animosities, no matter what the reason won't be tolerated?

Would getting the membership to understand that Post Counts are immaterial and only matter to establishing membership activity?

Would peer pressure from the membership concerning the usage of insulting/offensive or out right false accusations/lie toward another help anything?

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

Do you think that part of the problem is that people seem to lack a sense of humour online and get wound up far too tight?

No, I think it is just that you are an insulting dolt who can't keep up an intelligent discussion. There is nothing funny about calling people names and insulting them regardless of how many little smiley faces you post afterward. You're not being funny, you're just being childish.

You can't make a joke of yourself and expect people not too laugh at you.

This thread wasn't moved to the miscellaneous topics forum on account of how intelligent you and your inane ramblings are, quite the opposite in fact...

In allowing you to nurse this crap in it's dotage off the main and useful forums the moderators are demonstrating just how reasonable they are and how this inherent reasonability is independant of whether you or some insular ignoramus has pissed his pants in outrage or not.

As you how found yourself unable to make your point prevail through reasoned discussion, you are now chasing your tail and insulting everyone who tries to tell you, with varying degrees of gentleness, how stupid you actually look.

This is all quite apart from your inability to get your points across in the PF in a manner which has got you all shook up...

Uh'huh.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
I see the uphill gardener is touting his kinderbait again.

Pontificate, flagellate, and castigate all you want, the facts are still the facts.

Bless you, did the nasty man hurt your feelings?

Did he?

Did he?


Do you think part of the reason for your deranged view of the importance of your own opinion might be physiological instead of just because of your various personality defects?

Have you had a scan lately?

Ghu is usually the one with hurt feelings...pulling the race card...screaming racist...racist at the top of his lungs.

I believe maybe even some have been banned to preserve Ghu's feelings.

You mean the people who are constantly racially abuse towards myself and other members are called out for it by more decent Americans than you?

Those guys?

Nobody abused you Ghubert...except maybe in your mind. I am not sure how “abuse” could occur on an internet to an anonymous figure.

I hope you don't teach your grandchildren to be this dishonest. :/

Here is an example: http://forums.accuratereloadin...791038432#4791038432

Notice how there are decent Americans, better people than you, who don't share your idiotic Panglossianism on that very thread.

If you were more cosmopolitan, you wouldn't need something this ruddy basic explaining to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

This thread wasn't moved to the miscellaneous topics forum on account of how intelligent you and your inane ramblings are, quite the opposite in fact...In allowing you to nurse this crap in it's dotage off the main and useful forums....

Nobody moved this thread, berk. :/
I started it in the Miscellaneous Forum.

We can see whose feelings are hurt.
Ledvm hurt your feelings, didn't he.


And, once again, by posting your off topic dribble and attacks you have only proven my point about the direction AR is headed.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

This thread wasn't moved to the miscellaneous topics forum on account of how intelligent you and your inane ramblings are, quite the opposite in fact...In allowing you to nurse this crap in it's dotage off the main and useful forums....

Nobody moved this thread, berk. :/
I started it in the Miscellaneous Forum.

We can see whose feelings are hurt.
Ledvm hurt your feelings, didn't he.


And, once again, by posting your off topic dribble and attacks you have only proven my point about the direction AR is headed.

That's right, silly old me got this thread mixed up with that equally intelligent and well regarded thread about ISS, wonder why?

I love the way you have added to this post as the outrage swelled, any more or is this it?

Yow is levdm supposed to have hurt my feelings, by telling fibs?

There is no such things as off topic on this comedy thread, if you had a point someone of consequence would have let you know by now.

Ghubert, Grenadier started this thread here in the Miscellaneous topics section.

It was not "Moved" here by anyone.

No wonder rankings are down.

quote:

Originally posted by _____________:

Fuck off, you pathetic cunt and Nazi wannabe....

quote:

No wonder rankings are down.
quote:
Originally posted by _____________:

Fuck off, you pathetic cunt and Nazi wannabe....

Where did that come from and who posted it?????????????

If you are trying to illustrate the type of behavior you are having a problem with, it would be helpful if you listed WHO made that statement.

I agree. That is one form of behavior that we really don't want as well as the deletion of posters name.Saeed + Don can not be the sole Internet police on this site.That being said,one can not be everywhere at the same time.Whoever this poster was,I for one am ashamed at his vitriolic rant + just general bad language.I would like to think that we have risen above that.

I wasn't looking for it. I just did a search for "new since last visit" and there it was. But that's no surprise. I see that sort of thing more and more often. It's the kind of posts that drives people away.

It's in this thread - http://forums.accuratereloadin...3811043/m/7461069532

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
I wasn't looking for it. I just did a search for "new since last visit" and there it was. But that's no surprise. I see that sort of thing more and more often.

It's in this thread - http://forums.accuratereloadin...3811043/m/7461069532

So what, it's the Political forum. If offended by what can be on the internet then avoid AR Political forum. In fact best to avoid any political forum. If not sure then get someone else to check things out. They could put up a post and ask about the forum content for you.

If you have been paying attention over the past year or so you would have noticed several posts from multiple people who are wondering if, and/or asking for, a search feature on AR that will not return results from the Political Forum. Even posts from people on one's Ignore List will show up in Active Topics and New Since Last Visit. But we have been told AR does not have that capability. The quote I posted above is a good example. It appeared when I was just getting a list of new posts since my last visit. I wasn't in the Political Forum or searching the Political Forum but there it was, and at the top of the list.

The Political Forum continues to get worse and worse. The hateful attacks and vile posts are starting to spread to other areas. But, for the sake of argument, lets imagine that all offensive behavior is confined to posts in the Political Forum. The Political Forum has become the dominant forum on AR and a huge portion of all posts made on AR are made in the Political Forum. In fact, there are periods when the Political Forum is getting the majority of postings, more than all other forums combined. AR is shifting/has shifted from a predominately hunting and shooting website to a predominately political website. What that means is, even if all bad behavior is confined to the Political Forum, it is still significantly transforming the entire face of AR. But we were only imagining all offensive behavior is confined to the Political Forum. That's not really the case.

I think the PF would be much better if we got rid of some more of the bigots.

The forum smells better every year, long may it continue until it reaches a paradigm of what a cosmopolitan forum catering to the niche interests of an international crowd of aficionados.

Quality is always better than quantity, here is a graph demonstrating the same:

quote:

Originally posted by _____________:

Fuck off, you pathetic cunt and Nazi wannabe....

Schrodingers Cat made that response. If we are going to start giving examples, let us not delete any pertinent information.


While people are looking into "Facts" concerning AR problems it might be good to find out the actual percentage of ALL AR members that actually participate in the Crater on a regular basis.

As for the animosity/aggression/intensity in interactions among members in other topic areas, maybe some of it is a carry over/bleed over from the Crater but I believe it has more to do with personal attitudes EACH of us have developed toward other members.

I seriously Do Not believe there is a single member of the entire AR membership that Does Not have a few or possibly many other members that they do not get angry when they notice those people have either started a discussion or responded to a discussion, and it has been that way for the entire 11 years I have been on the site.

It was that way when I came here it will be that way when I leave, and I am as guilty of it as anyone.

As a whole, the internet lends itself more to dissension among people than agreement. Due to the base concept of anonymity, too many people feel free to say things to and about people on the internet that they would never say in a real life interaction.

Yes the original premise of Accurate Reloading was All things guns and hunting related, but times changed, people got to wanting different topic areas, because they began realizing that folks on here shared interests apart from just hunting or guns.

Over the last few months I have started simply not finishing a response I was typing because I realized it would only things that were already out of hand.

I don't have any idea if AR is going to die a natural death or if the membership is going to kill it, but I feel that with effort from the members some of the problems can be calmed down.

Man are there some kooks in the PF......like unabomber crazy....holy shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:
Man are there some kooks in the PF......like unabomber crazy....holy shit.

Yeah, good eh?

Now imagine there was no PF, where would those fruitloops be?*



*Apart from posting whinig threads on the miscellaneous topics forum, that is...

quote:

Man are there some kooks in the PF......like unabomber crazy....holy shit.

How often do you participate in the Crater Norton?

If I recall, not often.

Yes, a lot of the ones that do, and I have been guilty of it, really don't try to display any form of civility toward anyone that views the issues differently than they do.

We would see the same thing if the discussions concerned Religion. Religion and Politics are hands down the Two Most EMOTIONALLY CHARGED topics humans can attempt to discus.

Grenadier,

Yes, I saw the stuff about the PF coming in searching through latest postings since a visit.

On the smaller thread I outlined what AI thought are reasons for declining post count in the guns/ammo/hunting forums.

There are two things to bear in mind with PF post count. Firstly, it is a moving or changing targets as opposed to the 270 Vs 30/06 or Best Calibre for Whatever.

Secondly, given the totally different nature of Trump as both a Primary contender and as the POTUS then obviously PF posting will increase.

As a side note, I just check the top threads on Australia's biggest guns/hunting forum and also a data base forum (Access, SQL Server etc. and also Excel)and the forum is UK based but heaps of Americans and English and a lot of Australians. This would be regarded as one of the main data base forums.

In the case of both forums the top 10 threads are not about guns/hunting or data base/computer stuff.

Also, look at 24HourCampFire. All the big activity is on the top forum on the list, I think it is called Campfire, not the guns/ammo/hunting forums.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

Man are there some kooks in the PF......like unabomber crazy....holy shit.

How often do you participate in the Crater Norton?

If I recall, not often.

Yes, a lot of the ones that do, and I have been guilty of it, really don't try to display any form of civility toward anyone that views the issues differently than they do.

We would see the same thing if the discussions concerned Religion. Religion and Politics are hands down the Two Most EMOTIONALLY CHARGED topics humans can attempt to discus.

Virtually never. I'm not referring to civility, I'm referring to a few people having a screw or two loose.

Mike, it's not what is said that turns people away, it's how it's said. You mentioned 24HourCampFire. But 24HourCampFire, regardless of how much the conversation turns to politics and regardless of what views are expressed, would never allow the massive spamming, troll posts, insults, personal attacks, name calling, and disgustingly vile posts that AR has. AR was always light handed when it came to moderation but over the last year moderation has been absent. In that period, 24HourCampFire has NOT seen a decline in traffic but AR has seen a massive decline.

Maybe some folks are simply taking a break for a while.

Maybe some have left and will never be back.

Maybe AR will fold up the Tipi and walk off into the sunset.

Maybe some folks have simply grown tired, not so much by the language some members use in their responses but constant needling from a few members that is intended simply to try and get a person to go off on a tirade.

Civility is more than just not using profanity.

None of us really know what is going to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Mike, it's not what is said that turns people away, it's how it's said. You mentioned 24HourCampFire. But 24HourCampFire, regardless of how much the conversation turns to politics and regardless of what views are expressed, would never allow the massive spamming, troll posts, insults, personal attacks, name calling, and disgustingly vile posts that AR has. AR was always light handed when it came to moderation but over the last year moderation has been absent. In that period, 24HourCampFire has NOT seen a decline in traffic but AR has seen a massive decline.

I don’t look at 24Hour very much and when I do it is their Big Bore forum and to me that has slowed in the last 2 or 3 years.

A mate of mine on AR, Blair 338 RUM and myself noticed the slow down on AR guns/hunting forums. The same has happened on Australia’s biggest guns/hunting forum, at least on the guns/hunting forums. In fact a common complaint on the Australian forum is decrease in hunting reports and big increase in politics and off topic forums.

The last few years have seen a decline on the data base forum for data base/computer forums on the site.

As I posted before AR Big Bores in the early 2000s was wild and savage but gun forums were extremely active. Same deal with the African forum.

I really think it is just a matter that so many have talked ourselves out on the guns/ammo and also the data base/computer topics.

If what you are saying is correct about moderating and savage talk then how do you explain the very high activity on AR Big Bores and Africa forums in early 2000s.....and believe there were some wild and savage postings.

I think there is also another factor and for both guns and data base forums. Earlier and I guess in general older blokes learnt their stuff by a combination of experience and reading. Younger or at least newer to something gather information via the internet. In my experience this gives a knowledge that is out of balance. It is very obvious with data base stuff.

It is like someone knows about special crankshaft bearings and their fitting for a hot engine but doesn’tknow Howto get the engine out of the car etc.

This situation can make it difficult to answer a lot of their guns/ammo or data base questions and so lots of us can’t be bothered posting.

Also, look at the differences between guns and accessories and optics during the past two decades.

Those of us that have been hunting for LONGER than the New Guys have been alive, really can not discuss how great the stuff we grew up using is/was in comparison to today's technology.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

Those of us that have been hunting for LONGER than the New Guys have been alive, really can not discuss how great the stuff we grew up using is/w3as in comparison to today's technology.

Well I can and I can assure you Blair 338 RUM can. His house looks like a distributorship for Nightforce scopes etc. Although I am the one who has to bed his fucking rifles as they come and go

However, AR does not really cater to this sort of stuff and their are forums that do. Just as AR will leave the impression that there is a 375 H&H and 404 Jeffery behind every second bush these other forums will leave the impression a rifle all set up with Nightforce scope, range finders etc. is behind every second bush.

You helped make my point.

quote:

However, AR does not really cater to this sort of stuff and their are forums that do. Just as AR will leave the impression that there is a 375 H&H and 404 Jeffery behind every second bush these other forums will leave the impression a rifle all set up with Nightforce scope, range finders etc. is behind every second bush.

Just as I think it would be interesting to find out the percentage of ALL AR members that participate in the Crater, it would be interesting to find out the average age of AR members.

Equipment has changed, attitudes toward hunting and shooting have changed. Reading the reports/comments in the African Hunting section, it appears that the days of Safari hunting are getting numbered.

Where as some of us have moved along and developed an interest in all the latest toys, some of us haven't, just like me not knowing anything about "Bump Stocks/Slide Fire Stocks" until the shooting in Las Vegas.

The only semi autos I own are a Model 60 Marlin .22 and a 1907 Winchester Self Loader in .351 Winchester that according to the serial number search was built in 1923. The "Newest" scope I own is a 3 to 9 Leupold Rifleman on my .300 Weatherby.

My idea of a normal days hunting gear is my rifle, a pocket full of shells, my pocket knives and my binoculars.

Some folks are high tech junkies and I am low tech.

While the anger/animosity/hostility that has became more apparent on the entire site is probably playing a role in the decline in interest, I just believe there are other factors contributing to the problem.

How's the campaign going?

Claimed any scalps yet?

Nope, no scalps, just trying to figure out if there is actually anything wrong or if people have just became more willing to speak their mind on the issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Nope, no scalps, just trying to figure out if there is actually anything wrong or if people have just became more willing to speak their mind on the issues.

No, no scalps.

The graciousness with which the OP reacted to your public apology was interesting too, illustrates my point that in showing the degree of childishness all round, the OP exemplifies the "problem" he is claiming is harming the forum; i.e. grown men whining like children and bearing grudges over silly arguments instigated by their own stupidity.

But hey, children know it's always someone else's fault isn't it?

quote:

bearing grudges over silly arguments that take place on "Internet Chatrooms" that have absolutely NO actual affect on anything, between people that will NEVER have a Face to Face interaction.

Each and EVERY person participating on these type sites develop "On-Line Reputations" that follow them everywhere on the various sites, simply because they do not view things the EXACT same way asw some other folks do.