quote:

There are a couple of types of hunting that I wouldn't participate in, or don't agree with, but I would never support a ban knowing that our enemies would pick us apart piece piece if we ever gave an inch. Anti hunters and the anti gun crowd are one and the same with their tactics, if we give an inch, they always come back demanding more.

quote:

I guess I am that guy. I like the as long as it is legal stance-- but who decided what is legal in the first place? Someone said "what you are doing should be illegal" and followed thru with making it illegal. Along those lines, I think as hunting evolves some things should be made illegal and some things which are illegal could be made legal.

I hope to see some things become illegal to protect non-flourishing herds. I hope to see certain hunting methods made illegal which places out-of-balance pressures on the mature segments of herds or which give hunters an insurmountable advantage.

Species which are thriving or over populated should have less regulation than they currently do.

I know many on here will equate what I say to whitetails, but here in the West there are real world worries of struggling game populations and the way hunting methods can strain those populations' sustainability.

quote:

Aim for the exit hole

quote:

Originally posted by MC:
I guess I am that guy. I like the as long as it is legal stance-- but who decided what is legal in the first place? Someone said "what you are doing should be illegal" and followed thru with making it illegal. Along those lines, I think as hunting evolves some things should be made illegal and some things which are illegal could be made legal.



I hope to see some things become illegal to protect non-flourishing herds. I hope to see certain hunting methods made illegal which places out-of-balance pressures on the mature segments of herds or which give hunters an insurmountable advantage.

Species which are thriving or over populated should have less regulation than they currently do.

I know many on here will equate what I say to whitetails, but here in the West there are real world worries of struggling game populations and the way hunting methods can strain those populations' sustainability.

quote:

Wow, civil conversation. Almost all are wrong, but hey anything goes on the WWW. First post and I'm PETA. Then the derogatory Salt Lake post comes from a dude from California. You'd think a guy from California would know about stereotyping. In the end I'll take the blame, forgot the WWW is not a place to hold intelligent conversation.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Crazy,
I will take your bait-

Of course there are certain types of killing (it is not hunting) that should be banned as it is unethical and not fair chase by any means or definition of hunting.

1. Tower or released pheasant shoots. This is where the shooters get in a giant circle around a hill and pen raised pheasants are launched up and into the air where they fly over the gauntlet as shooters empty there guns on the birds. Sometimes called a European shoot.

2.Any hunting behind a high fence where pen raised animals are released to be shot. Pen raised are animals raised in a controlled environment, fed and habituated to human interaction.

3. Shooting any game animal from an enclosed hide over a feeder that is timed and regulated to attract the animal at prescribed times of the day. I would ban this on high fenced and non fenced areas. I have done this a few times and have come to the conclusion that it is ethically and morally wrong. Not different than baiting waterfowl but worse in a high fence enclosure.

4. Require that all gun owners and hunters attend and pass a rigorous testing course that requires proven proficiency in handling and shooting guns, detailed knowledge of game laws, and detailed knowledge of the specials you wish to hunt. This is done in many European countries and by PH training in Zimbabwe and other African countries.

5. Ban hunting from aircraft. Shooting pigs or coyotes from a helicopter is repugnant and wrong.

6. Adopt the B&C standards of fair chase across all states.

7. Ban the use of night vision optics except in tracking wounded game.

8. Increase the price of all hunting liscences to at least $100 for basic hunting priviledges. Money goes to state game departments to structure the hunting permit classes.

9. Require extensive guide/outfitter training to include proficiency with guns, horses (where appropriate), all laws, first aid, sanitary issues for camps, and trophy evaluation. Require an apprenticeship and demonstrated skills in the field.

That would be a start.

Let the mud fight begin.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Crazy,
I will take your bait-

Of course there are certain types of killing (it is not hunting) that should be banned as it is unethical and not fair chase by any means or definition of hunting.

1. Tower or released pheasant shoots. This is where the shooters get in a giant circle around a hill and pen raised pheasants are launched up and into the air where they fly over the gauntlet as shooters empty there guns on the birds. Sometimes called a European shoot.

2.Any hunting behind a high fence where pen raised animals are released to be shot. Pen raised are animals raised in a controlled environment, fed and habituated to human interaction.

3. Shooting any game animal from an enclosed hide over a feeder that is timed and regulated to attract the animal at prescribed times of the day. I would ban this on high fenced and non fenced areas. I have done this a few times and have come to the conclusion that it is ethically and morally wrong. Not different than baiting waterfowl but worse in a high fence enclosure.

4. Require that all gun owners and hunters attend and pass a rigorous testing course that requires proven proficiency in handling and shooting guns, detailed knowledge of game laws, and detailed knowledge of the specials you wish to hunt. This is done in many European countries and by PH training in Zimbabwe and other African countries.

5. Ban hunting from aircraft. Shooting pigs or coyotes from a helicopter is repugnant and wrong.

6. Adopt the B&C standards of fair chase across all states.

7. Ban the use of night vision optics except in tracking wounded game.

8. Increase the price of all hunting liscences to at least $100 for basic hunting priviledges. Money goes to state game departments to structure the hunting permit classes.

9. Require extensive guide/outfitter training to include proficiency with guns, horses (where appropriate), all laws, first aid, sanitary issues for camps, and trophy evaluation. Require an apprenticeship and demonstrated skills in the field.

That would be a start.

Let the mud fight begin.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
So it begins on this thread like many others, attack, tear down and insult if you don't think "my way".
We will never be able to hold on to hunting if we are this easily divided and after hunting is gone then will go our guns.
I've seen or been the brunt of attacks on this website usually from a few of the regular actors on all kinds of hunting related topics. Some of you guys and you know who you are claim to be pro hunting or pro gun but it is only on YOUR terms.
I had a guy verbally attack me after I posted a picture of my young son smiling with a whitetail buck he killed claiming I forced him into hunting at such a young age to feed my ego !(?) and he thought kids shouldn't hunt that young.
Had others make their attack at the distance of a "reasonable' shot on big game, whether it be 200 yards 400 yards 600 yards you name it a self imposed expert here has a limit that in their mind no one should shoot past or it suddenly becomes "unethical" and is no longer hunting.
Same thing with the Magnum crowd who thinks Deer hunting starts with .30 caliber and if you shoot anything smaller at deer is some kind of stunt and you'll be attacked for it right here on our pages.
Then bring up Bear hunting with a spear or for some Archery hunting and some of you would attack that even though we wouldn't be here if our ancestors didn't master these skills over the millennia.
I conclude that "these experts" would throw our heritage down the drain rather than listen to a differing viewpoint even about something they obviously know little about, in my eyes that makes these fools selfish at the highest level, sacrifice everyone's rights because they refuse to see out of their box.

quote:

You ever wonder why there are laws and regulations in place that impose antler restrictions on deer mandating a minimum spread for legal bucks, prohibit baiting for migratory birds like dove, limit the number of shells that a shotgun can hold in hunting for certain animals, require the recovery of game meat from a harvested animal, set size limits on certain species of fish, etc. Those regulations all came to be because there were enough examples of folks that called themselves hunters or fishermen that lacked a proper sense of hunting ethics that were engaged in practices that were considered irresponsible. Face it, we either police ourselves and hold each other to an appropriate standard of ethical and responsible conduct, or state and federal legislators and regulators will ultimately do it for us. Just because drawing ethical lines is tough does not mean that we get a pass in doing so.

quote:

I do not consider it hunting myself.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Mike,

Everyone knows nicotine is an addictive and cancer causing drug - a complete scourge on mankind, yet it is legal.?

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

I do not consider it hunting myself.

Could it be possible that the REAL problem is the use of the word hunting/hunter.

Shooting hogs/coyotes from a chopper is not hunting, it is population control/pest eradication and nothing more. But if a person wants to call it hunting who really cares?

Hunting is just a word. How many on here have non-hunting friends/family/acquaintances, that when you return from a hunt instead of asking if you killed anything, they ask if you CAUGHT anything?

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
Posted originaly by dogcat
"5. Ban hunting from aircraft. Shooting pigs or coyotes from a helicopter is repugnant and wrong. "

What you are referring to is not commonly known as hunting this is vermin control. Separate the two hunting and vermin control they are not the same.
Once again you are one of the people that have rules that you think others should live by based on "your" beliefs.
This is what will divide us as hunters and gun owners.
Let me guess you don't like to see an animal in a trap so lets ban that too while we are at it....?

quote:

Originally posted by Outdoor Writer:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Mike,

Everyone knows nicotine is an addictive and cancer causing drug - a complete scourge on mankind, yet it is legal.?

Not to derail the thread, but the above is not all factual. Nicotine does not cause cancer. If it did the e-cigs, patches and gum would be so labelled and perhaps banned since they, unlike cigarettes, do not produce vast tax receipts for both federal and state governments.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
Posted originaly by dogcat
"5. Ban hunting from aircraft. Shooting pigs or coyotes from a helicopter is repugnant and wrong. "

What you are referring to is not commonly known as hunting this is vermin control. Separate the two hunting and vermin control they are not the same.
Once again you are one of the people that have rules that you think others should live by based on "your" beliefs.
This is what will divide us as hunters and gun owners.
Let me guess you don't like to see an animal in a trap so lets ban that too while we are at it....?

To answer a couple of questions -

Vermin control - I am not sure what that is in this day and age in the lower 48. Vermin are what exactly?
In Texas, mountain lions are vermin, you can shoot elk to your hearts contnet any time of the year....so, what are vermin?

I would consider mice, rats, feral cats/dogs as vermin I guess.

Coyotes regulate themselves to a large extent. Food sources go up, so does coyote population and vice versa. To me, coyotes are game animals and should regulated as such. Yes, I know the continual complaints about livestock predation, but let the various game departments set the standards for removing problem animals.

On pigs, again, let the various game departments deal with predation issues, let hunters hunt them. However, shooting out of a helicopter for “sport” is not sport.

On trapping, I see a variety of sides to that issue. Done per the law as it now stands, I am ok with it.

On raccoon fighting with dogs... that is barbaric. Chase a raccoon with dogs, run it up a trip, climb the tree to dislodge the raccoon so the dogs can tear it apart.... pathetic in my view and must be banned. It is not hunting, it is gladiatorial compact for animals and the raccoons get ripped to pieces. No place in our society for that.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Crazy,
I will take your bait-

Of course there are certain types of killing (it is not hunting) that should be banned as it is unethical and not fair chase by any means or definition of hunting.

1. Tower or released pheasant shoots. This is where the shooters get in a giant circle around a hill and pen raised pheasants are launched up and into the air where they fly over the gauntlet as shooters empty there guns on the birds. Sometimes called a European shoot.

2.Any hunting behind a high fence where pen raised animals are released to be shot. Pen raised are animals raised in a controlled environment, fed and habituated to human interaction.

3. Shooting any game animal from an enclosed hide over a feeder that is timed and regulated to attract the animal at prescribed times of the day. I would ban this on high fenced and non fenced areas. I have done this a few times and have come to the conclusion that it is ethically and morally wrong. Not different than baiting waterfowl but worse in a high fence enclosure.

4. Require that all gun owners and hunters attend and pass a rigorous testing course that requires proven proficiency in handling and shooting guns, detailed knowledge of game laws, and detailed knowledge of the specials you wish to hunt. This is done in many European countries and by PH training in Zimbabwe and other African countries.

5. Ban hunting from aircraft. Shooting pigs or coyotes from a helicopter is repugnant and wrong.

6. Adopt the B&C standards of fair chase across all states.

7. Ban the use of night vision optics except in tracking wounded game.

8. Increase the price of all hunting liscences to at least $100 for basic hunting priviledges. Money goes to state game departments to structure the hunting permit classes.

9. Require extensive guide/outfitter training to include proficiency with guns, horses (where appropriate), all laws, first aid, sanitary issues for camps, and trophy evaluation. Require an apprenticeship and demonstrated skills in the field.

That would be a start.

Let the mud fight begin.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:


Not so, how do you explain cancer in the mouth from smokeless forms of tobacco.?
Having a mother who died of lung cancer from the addictive nature of nicotine, I respectfully disagree.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
Posted originaly by dogcat
"5. Ban hunting from aircraft. Shooting pigs or coyotes from a helicopter is repugnant and wrong. "

What you are referring to is not commonly known as hunting this is vermin control. Separate the two hunting and vermin control they are not the same.
Once again you are one of the people that have rules that you think others should live by based on "your" beliefs.
This is what will divide us as hunters and gun owners.
Let me guess you don't like to see an animal in a trap so lets ban that too while we are at it....?

To answer a couple of questions -

Vermin control - I am not sure what that is in this day and age in the lower 48. Vermin are what exactly?
In Texas, mountain lions are vermin, you can shoot elk to your hearts contnet any time of the year....so, what are vermin?

I would consider mice, rats, feral cats/dogs as vermin I guess.

Coyotes regulate themselves to a large extent. Food sources go up, so does coyote population and vice versa. To me, coyotes are game animals and should regulated as such. Yes, I know the continual complaints about livestock predation, but let the various game departments set the standards for removing problem animals.

On pigs, again, let the various game departments deal with predation issues, let hunters hunt them. However, shooting out of a helicopter for “sport” is not sport.

On trapping, I see a variety of sides to that issue. Done per the law as it now stands, I am ok with it.

On raccoon fighting with dogs... that is barbaric. Chase a raccoon with dogs, run it up a trip, climb the tree to dislodge the raccoon so the dogs can tear it apart.... pathetic in my view and must be banned. It is not hunting, it is gladiatorial compact for animals and the raccoons get ripped to pieces. No place in our society for that.