I guess the definition of the word "ethics" depends on your needs of the moment.
And, FWIW, when you book a flight through a travel agency and the flight is canceled, you get ALL of your money back.

I work in construction, I can't imagine trying to convince the owner that I could not build their project because a subcontractor didn't do their job. "Sorry everybody, you're going to have to do without your clinic because my HVAC contractor disappeared." How far is that going to fly? I would have been the person who, in my infinite wisdom, hired the disappearing POS.

As the general contractor I am totally responsible for my subs' performance or lack thereof. If I did not hold and honor that responsibility why would anyone ever even consider using me? I guess I am asking BWW why, in this age of internet instantaneous booking, why should anyone consider using you when you, by your own description, are nothing more than a Google searcher who adds no value to the situation?

For the record, I do use booking agents, because I believe an good agent adds a great deal of value

This thread has basically been dead for a long time. Now BWW comes on here, makes a comment and stirred things up again.

He must be of the mindset that any publicity is good publicity.

quote:

He must be of the mindset that any publicity is good publicity.

Or determined to prove he is as stupid as we believe.

quote:

Originally posted by boliep:

quote:

He must be of the mindset that any publicity is good publicity.

Or determined to prove he is as stupid as we believe.

That is a possibility.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
This thread has basically been dead for a long time. Now BWW comes on here, makes a comment and stirred things up again.

He must be of the mindset that any publicity is good publicity.

Dead doesn't mean buried, and the thread certainly won't ever be buried until I am.

That is exactly what I was referring to.

He spells quite well.

I'm thinking about becoming an agent that acts as a go-between for services/products that are never rendered. Looks like legally and ethically there are no liabilities. Win-win.

AnotherAZwriter (and others).

I definitely am not a lawyer, but I have sold literally millions of words over the past half century without being sued for libel or slander (threatened, yes) because I watched a writer friend learn the expensive lesson that truth is not always the absolute defense against libel.

Something called "actual malice" sometimes can cancel that defense. In my friend's case, multiple witnesses testified that he frequently bragged that he was "going to put that son of a bitch out of business."

Bill Quimby

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
AnotherAZwriter (and others).

I definitely am not a lawyer, but I have sold literally millions of words over the past half century without being sued for libel or slander (threatened, yes) because I watched a writer friend learn the expensive lesson that truth is not always the absolute defense against libel.

Something called "actual malice" sometimes can cancel that defense. In my friend's case, multiple witnesses testified that he frequently bragged that he was "going to put that son of a bitch out of business."

Bill Quimby

Actual Malice

In a legal sense, "actual malice" has nothing to do with ill will or disliking someone and wishing him harm. Rather, courts have defined "actual malice" in the defamation context as publishing a statement while either

knowing that it is false; or

acting with reckless disregard for the statement's truth or falsity.
It should be noted that the actual malice standard focuses on the defendant's actual state of mind at the time of publication. Unlike the negligence standard discussed later in this section, the actual malice standard is not measured by what a reasonable person would have published or investigated prior to publication. Instead, the plaintiff must produce clear and convincing evidence that the defendant actually knew the information was false or entertained serious doubts as to the truth of his publication. In making this determination, a court will look for evidence of the defendant's state of mind at the time of publication and will likely examine the steps he took in researching, editing, and fact checking his work. It is generally not sufficient, however, for a plaintiff to merely show that the defendant didn't like her, failed to contact her for comment, knew she had denied the information, relied on a single biased source, or failed to correct the statement after publication.


At this point not even AR is the problem for BWW; just Google his name. There are a number of websites that take him to task over his insistence on keeping his commission.

I'm not lawyer. With that said, and applying simple common sense, if this guy, (Blair), had a legal leg to stand on, he would be dragging everyone involved up and down the courthouse steps by now. To the point they'd have to get their shoes resoled. (Think Erin Andrews).

The easiest thing to do is threaten someone with legal action. Nothing is cheaper than tough talk. Or more worthless. This guy pulled a basic fuck job, and someone lost $70K as a direct, or indirect result of his actions, or lack thereof. Now he wants and expects people to leave him alone for doing it. 30 pages into this thread, no one appears remotely interested to conforming to his wishes.

As I understand it, billt, Blair did not walk away with $70,000. I think the OP is saying that Blair set them up with a fraudulent guide who stole the bulk of their money and that Blair kept his commission anyway. If I misunderstood that, please, someone set me straight.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
As I understand it, billt, Blair did not walk away with $70,000. I think the OP is saying that Blair set them up with a fraudulent guide who stole the bulk of their money and that Blair kept his commission anyway. If I misunderstood that, please, someone set me straight.

You are mostly correct if not totally correct. If I recall correctly , there was a question whether there was a mark up on the hunt in addition to the commission . Not sure that was ever answered.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
As I understand it, billt, Blair did not walk away with $70,000.

I corrected my post to reflect that.

I will never understand why Heathington was not charged with a crime.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I will never understand why Heathington was not charged with a crime.

Or why he is still alive, for that matter, considering the great number of people he is supposed to have scammed and how much they say he cheated them out of. I also wonder how his wife can look him in the eye with anything but disdain.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I will never understand why Heathington was not charged with a crime.

Or why he is still alive, for that matter, considering the great number of people he is supposed to have scammed and how much they say he cheated them out of. I also wonder how his wife can look him in the eye with anything but disdain.

I was under the impression that Heathington went room temperature a while back

He is deceased.

If that's the case we know he isn't ever going to face a lawsuit or be charged with a crime. Perhaps he is suffering the consequences of his actions some other way.

Hello, Blair, good to see you are still here. Referring to my earlier post, you did return to the hunters all funds not paid to Heathington, right? I can't imagine otherwise. To profit from another man's fraud would be unconscionable.

If you returned to the hunters all funds not paid to Heathington I promise I will book a hunt with you. If not, well.....let's not even consider that because you're going to be booking my hunt, right?

quote:

So, for anyone wondering who this person is, it is time to reveal his identity so he can be held responsible for his comments and posts!

At the very least, you're going to get banned for this; by the sounds of it, you might be prosecuted, as well.

Perhaps you should edit your post.

I don't have time to re-read all 30 pages of this thread. From what I recall (which admittedly at age 60 might not be the entire story), the theme of these posts is that BWW kept a commission on a hunt that never took place. BWW seems to confirm this in his post(s).

Some people, well most people, have a problem with that. I can understand that. It may or may not be legal. I seem to recall a lawyer writing herein that it wasn't. I don't know myself.

BWW seems to think this is libel (not liable as he often misuses the word). Libel by definition is the intentional spreading of false statements for purpose of damaging a party. BWW did keep the commission. That is a fact. Therefore repeating this tidbit of information is not libel although BWW might not like it. Disagreeing with keeping the commission is not libel. Cursing, use of strong language, etc while humorous on some level is not libel.

It seems to me that for there to be a problem, someone would have had to spread FALSE information with the INTENT to harm. Personally, I do not recall that but I raise my old age memory as a caveat once again.

I personally spent more time than most looking into this. I did searches of court records among other things. As I recall, BWW was NEVER a party to the litigation related to this. I do recall Heathington having multiple judgments against him. Also, various other legal problems.

Since BWW was never a party to the litigation, the Company was never cleared by the courts. He references others who cleared BWW. I have seen no documents. This might or might not be true.

The facts are that this action is unfathomable to most of us, if not all of us, as clients. We will never understand this. However, this does not mean that BWW was not within their legal right to keep the commission. Personally, I doubt it but I could be wrong.

This thread was basically dead until BWW came on AR and posted years after the fact. Personally, I think that was ill advised but that was his choice.

BWW comes on AR and posts the home address and phone number of a well known member here. By the way BWW, John IS a writer. However, that is not how he makes his primary living. Posting of this personal information is more than a little bit wrong in my book. Norton says it is against the law. That might be true. Regardless, in my book, it is wrong to take such actions. If it is, in fact, a violation of the law, I hope John takes actions against BWW.

By the way, I know that John was not the only one threatened here. I will let that person speak up should he so desire.

Finally, I want to make an offer/challenge to BWW. This is as follows:

1- Refund the family the commission.

2- I will personally book a hunt or hunts to make up for this commission. I see above that someone else has raised this issue. It should not be difficult to generate $10,000 of commissions.

3- If you do this, I will personally go on the other websites and tell the whole world that you refunded the money.

4- BWW needs to drop the harassment of others on the website.

5- BWW needs to stop making inflammatory posts on this website.

What do you say Jeff? The ball is in your court.

quote:

Norton says it is against the law. That might be true. Regardless, in my book, it wrong to take such actions. If it is, in fact, a violation of the law, I hope John takes actions against BWW.

Larry:

It is against the law to post the name and address of someone who is otherwise anonymous on the internet, and I will take legal action if he does it again. Apparently someone at AR knew it was against the law and removed it.

If Blair wants to share my personal information via PM to other members, that is his right but he cannot do it publicly.

Larry, your gesture is remarkable. If Blair refunds the commission (and somehow provides proof) I will stop posting about this affair. But I won't book a hunt with Blair to help pay for it. I will, however, contribute money to help defray the legal costs of the first person Blair attempts to sue as a result of their actions on AR.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Norton says it is against the law. That might be true. Regardless, in my book, it wrong to take such actions. If it is, in fact, a violation of the law, I hope John takes actions against BWW.

Larry:

It is against the law to post the name and address of someone who is otherwise anonymous on the internet, and I will take legal action if he does it again. Apparently someone at AR knew it was against the law and removed it.

If Blair wants to share my personal information via PM to other members, that is his right but he cannot do it publicly.

Larry, your gesture is remarkable. If Blair refunds the commission (and somehow provides proof) I will stop posting about this affair. But I won't book a hunt with Blair to help pay for it. I will, however, contribute money to help defray the legal costs of the first person Blair attempts to sue as a result of their actions on AR.

I will also put up money to help defray any defense costs. Great idea AAZ!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

I will also put up money to help defray any defense costs. Great idea AAZ!

As will I. What's right is right.

QUESTION: Can I sue someone for posting my name and address on a website without my permission?

https://answers.yahoo.com/ques...0100629003305AApKE2v

1) You must establish that the person had a legal duty to act in a particular fashion - I.e. - the person in question had a legal duty to keep your name and address private.

2) You must demonstrate that person in question breached that duty. - I.e. - you must be able to show it was the person in question who posted the information to the website.

3) You must demonstrate injury or loss as a result of the person's actions.

If you can establish those three things, you have a case. If you can't, you don't.

billt....what you say is pretty standard for ANY lawsuit. The issue as I see it is being preemptive ie. not waiting to incur damages (injuries or loss). As to #1 I believe that is true on these forums.

That said, I defer to those with more knowledge on the subject.

I can't believe Blair was stupid enough to post on this thread again a few days ago and with a threat that's absolutely absurd to boot!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...public_participation

"A strategic lawsuit against public participation (SLAPP) is a lawsuit that is intended to censor, intimidate, and silence critics by burdening them with the cost of a legal defense until they abandon their criticism or opposition.[1] Such lawsuits have been made illegal in many jurisdictions on the grounds they impede freedom of speech"

It's also occasionally known as Barratry. In some places just threatening a lawsuit without intention to file can be Barratry.

Basically, it's a bad idea to threaten to sue for libel unless libel has actually occurred. And apropos of no posts on AR ever, libel is incredibly hard to prove for a comment on an Internet forum.

Well, years after being off BWW's mailing/call list, I got a envelope in the mail today. It was hand addressed 2 days ago. I am quite surprised given that BWW clearly knows of this thread and I got a ridiculous e mail from him yesterday.

I guess he is not taking my offer. Oh well, I tried.

And I see the Mexican desert big horn hunts have dropped to $60,000.

TTT

quote:

Originally posted by DTala:
here ya go Drummond.....

In a pinch, this one will work just as well:

-|--

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Well, years after being off BWW's mailing/call list, I got a envelope in the mail today. It was hand addressed 2 days ago. I am quite surprised given that BWW clearly knows of this thread and I got a ridiculous e mail from him yesterday.

I guess he is not taking my offer. Oh well, I tried.

Still no offers Larry?

No response

Back to the top.

It has been answered many times probably but is Larry Heathington dead?

https://www.facebook.com/larry...story.unseen-section

Just looked in at this fb page and this Larry Heathington still posts and he seems also be a sheep guide from AZ.. If it is a different Larry I will remove this post.








From Larry Heathington earlier in this thread.

"Well I am not a messanger boy and since my name is getting bandied about by people that have few or no facts "I will simply set the Record straight" My Name is Larry Heathington and I have guided both Desert Sheep and Rocky Mountains for over 30 years. This whole thing started way before the incident in 2009 as I have know Jeff and Audra Blair for almost the entire time I guided them. They are Arizonan's as am I and they were there watching the requested due Diligence as it was created. I guided for more than Sheep obviously but specialized in Deserts to the tune of well over 100 plus a good many Rocky Mountains as well having taken Boone and Crockett Rams in both catagories. Including the number 2 and 4 Deserts ever taken in Arizona. I also guided 10 past Presidents of SCI ( Keller, Pocuis, Cheremie) to other exotic species from Coues Deer to Tule Elk.
I will do this in a more or less cronological order so it can be followed more closely. In September of 2009 I was headed to New Mexico to guide 3 not two hunters on the State Landowner permits for Antelope. I pulled off at a non rest stop exit to go to the bathroom and subsequently was knocked unconcious by an assailant that came out of the bushes while I was being distracted by his partner. They stole some stuff out of my Pickup truck ( tent, stove etc) kicked the hell out of me and then left. I thought Thank God at the time but given recent developments I am not so sure. All of this is well documented in a Police report that was filed in Williams,Arizona as are the photograph's of my injuries which were significant (Major bruising ,Lacerated Cheek, Concussion etc) After I woke up I got in my Pickup and drove down the road a piece pulled over and passed out again and then the next day made it to a Hotel where I slept which is not good idea with a concussion but I was extremely disoriented , tired and did not call anyone immediately. But began notifying people from clients to my own children (who I would never scare for no reason)immediately as my head cleared. The Police have no reason to dispute those findings so I don't have any Idea why anyone else would. Both clients were given return hunts and the subject was closed accept for the ongoing Police investigation. Two of those clients belonged to Blair World Wide and the other one was from a private referall.

Once I got back on home ground I again slept soundly with prescribed medications and started building my strength between visits from my friends and family, until the following week when I had an Early Elk Hunter near my house. We hunted for a day or two and then took about a 350 Bull late one evening . During that time with the Elk client two landowners from Mexico arrived and collected their deposits on both Deer and Sheep hunts for December 2009 and January 2010. They were both open about the visit in front of the Elk client and why shouldn't they be they had nothing to hide. It is common knowledge that the Mexican Landowners want paid up front for their permits at least 30 days prior to the hunt, it is the norm not the exception. I then went about completing the rest of my Arizona fall schedule but I was having more than a little difficulty physically with some of the hunts, I assumed based on the concussion. My equlibrium was off, I tired easier than I had and just didn't feel very well overall. I even went to the Kane County Hospital in Kanab, Utah and was administerd an IV while I was on a Kaibab Deer hunt and struggling. (Medical Documentation is available)

The deposits having been paid along with the second payments I made arragements to spend Christmas with my Kids in Casa Grande, Arizona and then cross into Mexico in early January. I didn't feel worth a damn over that Christmas break but I had it to do so I crossed the border at Nogales in my Ford pickup on January 3rd headed to both the Sheep and Mule Deer Hunts. About 20 miles north of Santa Anna, Sonoro, Mexico I felt nauseauos and pulled off to the side of the Road where I began puking Bile and Blood. It scared the Hell out of me and I turned around and headed back to my primary Physician in Casa Grande,approximately 200 miles back north, I threw up all the way north and was very weak when I arrived, they immediately sent me to the Hospital at Banner Health Care in Chandler where I spent the next 10 or 11 days in serious condition having tests run daily to determine a cause.( Medical Records Available)..All during that time either my staff or I talked to the Clients and Mexican Land Owners keeping them informed as to what was going on and tried to get them all rescheduled. I had no idea at that time what was wrong with me nor did the doctor's. It is the assumtion of some of the doctors that my genetic's have a roll in this condition as I had a sister who died of a Liver condition at 38, and it was compounded by the 2009 beating plus the combination of diseases I had during my lifetime. Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Scarlett Fever, Tylenol use and other contributing factors.

Prior to my release the Doctor that was incharge of my case set me down and told me that I had "End Stage Liver Disease" and that it was in fact terminal and I could live anywhere from six months to two years., I find myself there now at the end of the first year having been taken to the Hospital (3) three times with very serious blood levels or bleeds and I did not think that I would ever see the light of day again on each visit. I am living in the Kingman area staying in a house that my sister has leased for me and I am in an inhouse Hospice program that began in May of 2010 (Records Available).

False Statements that I have read in all of this dialoge: I do not work for Blair World Wide Hunting I worked for the Mexican Landowners who paid me a straight $5000.00 per client finders fee to find the clients, get their paperwork( Gun Permits ,Photo's for the Cities, Accompaning each client to Mexico as their non hunting companion and evaluating Sheep for the Guide Teams). the Mexican's get the difference. I got my normal finders fee. All monies from Blair were paid to me and were then given to the Mexican's thru Bank Drafts, Transferrs, or they were picked up by the Landowners. Blair retains his commission and other fee's from the initial. deposit. I have worked for other booking agants in the past and that procedure is fairly common within their industry.

I have been served with three lawsuits two of which were dismissed for lack of activity in the past 60 days. That includes Brent Henriksen's which was dismissed this week by a Coconino County Superior Court Judge . (Dismissal's available) Since that litigation is pending my attorney told me not to talk to any of the parties involved pending a Court Judgement..I have not talked to anyone about these matters in the past several month's at his request.. Prior to that I was cordial and informative to the clients when I talked to them as was my staff. For quite along time now I have been on 15 Miligrams of Morphine twice a day and am often incoherent therefore I allow my friends, relatives or staff talk to the clients WHEN I AM MEDICATED OR AM INCOHERENT.

I didn't load the hunts if they were ever loaded I simply supplied an ammount to complete their requests when it was brought to my attention, non Hunting companions, Film Crews etc!!

I have never taken a dime from the Blair clients all of that money was handled out of Blairs office and the Mexican Landowners pay me either $5000.00 a Sheep Hunter or $500.00 a Deer Hunter. I completed those duties as best I could short of the hunt taking place as I was in the hospital, Gun Permits were bought, Tags were gotten from the Government of Sonora etc!! As for my personally booked clients all of the money was given to the Mexican Landowners and they pay me the fee, sometime reluctantly but they pay it.

I also recommended that Trip Insurance be purchased in my normal correspondence although none was to my knowlege. As you will note the excerpt that is on Sheep Ltds introductory Stating that I aws retiring was written FEBRUARY 1ST when I was under the assumtion thatr my guide days were done. I have had addition tests from Varied specialists that are of the same opinion as the one I first recieved I have " End Stage Liver Disease " which is terminal. Thus short of this letter to clear the air I have no attention of addressing this matter again as it is in the hands of my Attorney as per his request.

Larry Heathington"

Very curious.

Someone with the same name and the same town is actively posting on Facebook. I thought I saw and obituary. I am going to start looking.