This story is TRUE, Remington M700 and M7 will discharge. It happened to friend.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/39383236

http://www.mtpr.net/commentaries/892

I hate to see firearms industry hurt, but wrong is wrong.

Is this political? If so; please move with my apology.

I sent a Model 600 in for the recall modification of the safety. Since it came back the trigger pull is over 10 pounds!

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
This story is TRUE, Remington M700 and M7 will discharge. It happened to friend.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/39383236

http://www.mtpr.net/commentaries/892

I hate to see firearms industry hurt, but wrong is wrong.

Is this political? If so; please move with my apology.

It happened to me once although I thougt that I had maybe my heavy jacket was somehow in a position to press on the trigger.

I had an old ADL that had the safety that locked the bolt.

I came out of the woods, flicked off the safety to work the bolt, the only way to clear the magazine as well as the chamber, (I hate ADLs for that reason) and BAM the gun went off.

It never happened again so I thought that somehow I was @ fault. In years since I've learned that it wasn't me, but the gun.



I narrowly missed putting a .243" hole in my VW Golf.

What were the modifications?
I have a 700 that was bought in the late 70's and I did not like having to take it off safe to unload the chamber.So I removed the dog that blocked the bolt from opening so it could be done with the rifle on safe.
I have not had a problem with the bolt opening on it's own,even when going through brush.

One needs to remember.....there was a reason Remington changed the safety to allow the bolt to open on the safe position.....

That there's a reason for the first (Cardinal) rule of firearm safety.....muzzle control...we never point it at anything we don't want to kill.

Blaming Remington for acts of bad safety practices just don't fly here!

Among the finest reasons to buy Winchester is their three position safety.....and Remington should follow suit....hell Mausers had it in 1898!!!!

Ot's a two way street.....Remington should have their asses kicked for their poor safety....but that don't excuse the lack of muzzle control by gun owners.....

Why isn't that muzzle pointed upwards when we remove the safety when we unload the gun?....

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Why isn't that muzzle pointed upwards when we remove the safety when we unload the gun?....

Because that bullet has to come down somewhere.

It needs to be pointed in a safe direction towards the ground! That way, nothing but worms stand to be killed!

quote:

Because that bullet has to come down somewhere.

OK....I'll give you that.....

Can you tell me one documented case of a fatality caused by a bullet falling from the sky?

Here is the notice about the 600s. I'm guessing the 700s have similar issues. My son now has a very safe Model 600 with a 10# trigger.

quote:

IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE:
In 1979, Remington instituted a recall for Model 600 and 660 rifles made before February, 1975, because, under certain circumstances, the safety and trigger could be manipulated in a way that could result in an accidental discharge. Under the 1979 recall program, owners of the affected rifles could return their guns for installation of a new trigger assembly at no charge. Since 1979, thousands of the affected firearms have been serviced under the 1979 recall and received new trigger assemblies.

More recall info from Remington's site:

http://www.remington.com/pages...ication-program.aspx

quote:

Here are the basic program elements:

* The firearms will be cleaned and inspected and the bolt lock mechanism will be removed for $20.00 plus shipping and handling.
* We will return the gun to you with a safety redemption certificate to complete and submit in order to receive a free blaze orange hat. (one hat per certificate)

Please click on the centerfire model to obtain more information on the program for the specific model, as there are some differences in the program based on model type:

Model 700 Model 721 Model 722 Model XP-100
Model 600 Model 660 Model 40-X

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Among the finest reasons to buy Winchester is their three position safety.....and Remington should follow suit....hell Mausers had it in 1898!!!!

Why isn't that muzzle pointed upwards when we remove the safety when we unload the gun?....

Many years ago, about the same time I decided to never own a Remington, I went to one of these fancy ranges with a friend. He promptly shot a hole in the metal roof of the range shed with his Remington - just as described - pointed upwards and push the safety to the off position.

That comotion caused somewhat if an inspection of the roof, which had several holes in it. The range master explained it was a common event with Remington owners.

I have come to expect that this contorversy will go on and on. Remington will continue to refuse to really fix the problem, weasel, etc., and the trial lawers will make hay, and Remington owners will continue to rationalize.

Why should the future be different than the past?

KB

I can't see how just removimng the "bolt block" is "fixing" the problem.

Granted it would eliminate the chance of accidental firing when unloading the rifle, but what about when one releases the safety in preperation of firing?

Maybe not as likely to hit an innocent bystander, but an unintentional discharge could still result sending a bullet in an unexpected trajectory.

Seems to me the fault lies in the trigger, not the safety.

A lady I was hunting with many years ago was using a Rem 700 BDL and carried it close to her body with the barrel pointing to her left....fairly horizontal....

One day we was walking a trail to the truck for a break and she decided to unload the chamber....

To do this she had to push the safety forward to unlock the bolt and when she did this the rifle discharged.....Thank God I was walking on her right!

What we discovered is that one of her coat buttons had wedged itself between the trigger and the front of the trigger guard and put pressure on the trigger.....and of course when the safety was removed the rifle fired....

This makes the point for a three position safety....hell even Savage has one!!!!!

That said.....the actions of failed handling by not pointing the muzzle in a safe direction were clear as well.....in this case no one was hurt.....I've often wondered how many folks were killed because of this same negligence!!!

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
I can't see how just removimng the "bolt block" is "fixing" the problem.

It isn't! The unaltered rifle made it impossible for user to unload the rifle without taking it off safe first, thus any blame is largely on Remington, but when altered to allow unloading before taking off safety a larger % of blame is shifted to the user. I suspect Reminton's "fix" was motivated largely by the desire to reduce their liability in court, but that's just my opinion.

quote:

That there's a reason for the first (Cardinal) rule of firearm safety.....muzzle control...we never point it at anything we don't want to kill.

Blaming Remington for acts of bad safety practices just don't fly here!

Among the finest reasons to buy Winchester is their three position safety.....and Remington should follow suit....hell Mausers had it in 1898!!!!

Ot's a two way street.....Remington should have their asses kicked for their poor safety....but that don't excuse the lack of muzzle control by gun owners.....

Why isn't that muzzle pointed upwards when we remove the safety when we unload the gun?....

As vapodog points out, keeping muzzle pointed in a safe direction at all times is of paramount importance, but, how many of us can say they have never violated that rule?

I purchased a new 40XC Remington (a target rifle built by Rem. custom shop on the 700 action)in the late '80's and the very first round down the barrel was a FORS (Reminton's acronym for Fire On Release of Safety). Fortunately, rifle was pointed at the target, so no harm done. The 40XC was a tack driver, but I no longer own any rifle w/2 pos. safety no matter how well it shoots.

Watch yer muzzle!

Regards,
hm

quote:

As vapodog points out, keeping muzzle pointed in a safe direction at all times is of paramount importance, but, how many of us can say they have never violated that rule?

I would beg to ask the question differently.....

How many of will admit that we had the muzzle pointed at another human when we took the safety off.....

For the record.....

I believe Remington is grossly negligent for not producing a rifle as safe as it could be and by proof that many other manufacturers have done so.....and going back a very long time....

as a matter of fact....they once produced a rifle with a three position safety....we called it the 1917 Enfield and after that they made it as the Remington M-30

Their fix of the 1980s by disengaging the bolt lock was a step in the right direction but didn't go far enough IMO

However to say that Remington is responsible for many deaths is not making the dots connect.....In fact....one should be fully capable of responsibly handling a firearm even if it has no safety device at all!

On one occasion I used a Mauser with a faulty two position safety.....I hunted with the action open....and yes finally got my deer!

quote:

Can you tell me one documented case of a fatality caused by a bullet falling from the sky?

1996 -1997 New Years Eve some stupid bastard Mex gang banger in Los Angeles was shooting a .45 off,

eyewitness accounts have it near straight up. Three blocks away a 7 year old girl was struck in the head

and died as a result of those injury's . The reason I know this is a Close friends relative was on

LA Sheriffs Dept. and responded too that call . I actually spoke with him at a party, an he personally

recounted the incident unfortunately !. It is the first an only time I've ever heard of it happening

and that's why it stuck in my memory bank !. However more to the point of this discussion .IMO

Poor gun safety isn't an excuse for poor firearm safety design !!!.

If your rifle isn't pointed at anything, it won't kill anything. Anyone who has a rifle pointed at anything that they do not intend to kill is NEGLIGENT. End of story. Treat EVERY firearm as if it is loaded AT ALL TIMES and do not expect the safety to work. We can't legislate against all of the idiots.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
One needs to remember.....there was a reason Remington changed the safety to allow the bolt to open on the safe position.....

That there's a reason for the first (Cardinal) rule of firearm safety.....muzzle control...we never point it at anything we don't want to kill.

Blaming Remington for acts of bad safety practices just don't fly here!

Among the finest reasons to buy Winchester is their three position safety.....and Remington should follow suit....hell Mausers had it in 1898!!!!

Ot's a two way street.....Remington should have their asses kicked for their poor safety....but that don't excuse the lack of muzzle control by gun owners.....

Why isn't that muzzle pointed upwards when we remove the safety when we unload the gun?....

]
Correct!

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer: do not expect the safety to work.

Sorry, I expect my safety to work - every time, all the time. I don't disagree with the other stuff you said.

Perhaps, said another way, and from another point of view, I expect other folks safeties to work every time, all the time, especially those with bad habits. I can't be watching them all the time, and correcting them. Besides, generally folks like that won't listen anyway, but I should be able to count on the rifle mfg to have made a product as safe as practical, as every gun mfg that I can think of, except Remington.

I consider people who rationalize, compromise, make it about something that it is not, and think that it's ok to have a faulty, cheap, flawed mechanism (by design) are neglegent.

IMO, it's the owners of Remington 700s fault as much as it is Remington's, because if reasonable gun owners refused to buy their crap, they would simply quit selling it or modify it to suit the customer. It's never been about the customer, or making a quality product, but always about mfg costs, and profit margin.

KB

http://www.dallasnews.com/shar...dition1.4ab463f.html

Fort Worth police are investigating reports from a 49-year-old Benbrook man who says he may be responsible for the stray bullet that hit an Arlington woman Sunday morning at Texas Motor Speedway.

Kennith Jaramillo contacted Fort Worth police on Monday after hearing that Jill King Moss, 62, was hit in her arm by a .50-caliber bullet that pierced the roof of her RV, authorities said. Ms. Moss was taken to Harris Methodist Fort Worth Hospital and is expected to recover from her injuries.

Given the bullet's trajectory, Fort Worth police investigators believe the bullet came from far away.

Mr. Jaramillo told police he was target shooting five miles from Texas Motor Speedway between 10 and 11 a.m., said Lt. Paul Henderson, a Fort Worth police spokesman. Mr. Jaramillo fired five or six rounds at a berm, a mound of dirt, with his .50-caliber Vulcan single-shot rifle.

Fort Worth police took his weapon for ballistics tests. If tests confirm the bullet was fired from his weapon, Mr. Jaramillo could be charged with deadly conduct for recklessly firing a weapon, Lt. Henderson said.

Mr. Jaramillo has not been arrested or charged in the incident.

quote:

one of her coat buttons had wedged itself between the trigger and the front of the trigger guard and put pressure on the trigger.....and of course when the safety was removed the rifle fired....

Yeah. No acusations but I've wondered how many of the Remington "failures" had an explanation like that.

Since the Remington trigger was easily adjustable many who didn't quite know what they were doing adjusted them..to the point of a safety failure! I've always thought of the Rem trigger as a great HUNTING trigger but far too many people have attempted to adust them into a TARGET trigger and that's not wise.

No matter, muzzle control is the only proper way to handle any firearm.

I have never really liked “over ride” triggers. There is very little material holding back the firing pin, you can see the amount of metal between you and a mechanism over ride inside the circle.



Military two stage triggers had an enormous amount of sear to shear before the firing pin went forward, but people prefer these single stage triggers. And that is what they got.

A graybeard I shoot with told me of two hardware store new M721’s that fired through the floorboards of a car. The owners were unloading the rifles, moved the safety to off, and the rifles fired. This would have been late 40’s, early 50’s. The same trigger mechanism was carried through the entire production.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:

quote:

one of her coat buttons had wedged itself between the trigger and the front of the trigger guard and put pressure on the trigger.....and of course when the safety was removed the rifle fired....

Yeah. No acusations but I've wondered how many of the Remington "failures" had an explanation like that.

Since the Remington trigger was easily adjustable many who didn't quite know what they were doing adjusted them..to the point of a safety failure! I've always thought of the Rem trigger as a great HUNTING trigger but far too many people have attempted to adust them into a TARGET trigger and that's not wise.

No matter, muzzle control is the only proper way to handle any firearm.

Ditto that! I have noticed Remington 700 triggers can be quite sensitive to action screw torque and bedding. If the rear screws are overtightened and/or the bedding is not right, the action/trigger housing can be tweaked and affect the safety function and trigger pull. This is especially evident in the synthetic stocked guns. Pillar bedding combined with proper trigger housing clearance would help the issue.

Well guys, just don't buy the sons of bitches.

Probably the ones of you screaming the loudest have never owned a Remington and are just using this as a chance to make your Edge look better than it is.

I am a responsible gun owner and I know how to handle a rifle safely. Over the years I've owned around 50 700s, 7s, and 788s. And I have about 25 right now. I have never, never had a trigger that didn't operate like is should nor have I ever had a safety fail nor have I ever had a AD!!! And FWIW, anyone that relies on a safety or anything mechanical for that matter is stupid.
And probably the same losers that are whining about the ADs are the ones that brag about their 1.5# trigger on a hunting rifle.

These Rem 700 threads are often both informative and amusing.

Here is what we all know for sure: The Remington 700 is the best selling hunting rifle ever.

And, oh yeah, almost forgot: the overwhelining choice of both military and LEO hitters.

And no, I don't own one.

Just sayin'...

The safest way to carry a Remington is with a empty chamber and magazine.

Only when the game is in a safe firing position should you attempt to load the rifle.
With the safety engaged (later style) and the sights on target, close the bolt.
With the sights still on your target, release the safety.
Now it's safe to place your finger on the trigger.

It only takes a couple seconds to google "Walker Trigger" and find out that this problem has been known for years (IIRC Mike Walker, the triggers designer, wanted Rem to make changes to prevent these kinds of AD issues)

[QUOTE]



Among the finest reasons to buy Winchester is their three position safety.....and Remington should follow suit....hell Mausers had it in 1898!!!!



Mauser had the extractor right way back then too! Another shortcoming of the Remmy's.

I would have to be in the corner of "this is a trigger problem"

I built a custom 22-250 on a Remington 700 action and had a Jewell installed. It was set incredibly light, under a pound. Sighting in,
the bolt was closed on a live round with the safety on. I disengaged the safety and it fired. It happened twice more.

I took the barreled action out of the stock and cleaned the trigger group with some carb spray and never had another problem. I guess some dirt or fine debris got in the trigger and caused the misfires...

quote:

Probably the ones of you screaming the loudest have never owned a Remington and are just using this as a chance to make your Edge look better than it is.

I have two. One in 30-06 and one in 6.5 Swede. Fine rifles.

quote:

I am a responsible gun owner and I know how to handle a rifle safely. Over the years I've owned around 50 700s, 7s, and 788s. And I have about 25 right now. I have never, never had a trigger that didn't operate like is should nor have I ever had a safety fail nor have I ever had a AD!!!

I adjusted the triggers on my rifles and slapped the h*** out of them and dropped them on their buttplates for a foot to ensure that the mechanism did not follow.

I have had match trigger mechanisms follow during rapid fire. Luckily I did not have an out of battery slamfire with the firing pin sticking out the bolt face. I believe Jack O’Connor had one when a firing pin broke in a 03 Springfield. On the triggers that followed I increased the pull weight.

And my M52D trigger followed when set to a nice clean trigger pull. Got tired of that and found that all that creep was due to sloppy machining of the sear face at Winchester.





Rough sear face.



I want to assure you, there is no such thing as a person who will never have an AD. There are just people who have not yet had their AD.

quote:

And FWIW, anyone that relies on a safety or anything mechanical for that matter is stupid.

Stupid is a strong word. What about brakes? What about safety belts? What about the chair I am sitting in? It is good to distrust mechanical mechanisms but there are limits. Safeties should function as a fail safe mechanism. Not as a “gotcha” device. But if your point is that shooters should always practice safe muzzle practices regardless of safety device, you are 100% right. Life and limb are too precious to risk to assumptions.

quote:

And probably the same losers that are whining about the ADs are the ones that brag about their 1.5# trigger on a hunting rifle

I had one call from a local policeman whose M700 was following. I did not get to inspect the rifle, I told him the problem was probably due to someone messing with the trigger mechanism.

Override triggers with their tiny surface engagements and all the frictional and spring tensions needed to keep it in static balance, are easy to get out of order.

Some rifles just have sear blocking safeties and Remington is one of those. The safety just blocks the sear, nothing else. If the trigger and sear surfaces are out of alignment, if the sear spring is too light, when that safety is taken out of the way, that darn firing pin will over ride the system. Bang!

I much prefer firing pin blocking safeties to sear blocking safeties. The Mauser and the M70 are great examples of good safeties.

I noticed in my late model Ruger M77 that Ruger changed its safety from sear blocking only to a safety that holds that cocking piece back. I guess too many trigger mechanisms jarred off and they are trying to hold that firing pin back. I don't know how much better their system is because you won't know that the trigger jarred off until you take off the safety.

quote:

Originally posted by SlamFire:


I adjusted the triggers on my rifles and slapped the h*** out of them and dropped them on their buttplates for a foot to ensure that the mechanism did not follow.

Did you check to see what happened if you pulled the trigger with the safety engaged & then took the safety off?
Wasn't that one of the problems?

All this talk about proper safe gun handling is fine & absolutely true, but once you've had an AD when you flicked off the safety it will give you a better perception of the magnatude of this problem.

Yes I had the muzzle pointed down towards the ground, etc, etc. But it's a bit un-nerving to have a gun go off when you least expect it.

quote:

I noticed in my late model Ruger M77 that Ruger changed its safety from sear blocking only to a safety that holds that cocking piece back.

Ruger MKII and Hawkeye safety blocks the trigger. It doesn't touch the firing pin unless the trigger block fails. Then the safety catches the firing pin, if the safety is in the full rear position

The true firing pin safeties pull back the firing pin a bit so the cocking piece is no longer resting on the sear. The trigger can be pulled through the full range of motion with the safety on.

The Ruger doesn't do that. On the 77 MKII's I've had, the safety moves into a notch on the firing pin, but does not touch or move it. It has no contact with the firing pin unless the trigger block fails. I think of it more as a firing pin interceptor than a true firing pin safety. The Ruger trigger is blocked in both "safe" positions. The MKII safety works nothing like the M70 safety.

Bruce

We have had literally hundreds of Remington 700 through here, and have had not one single accidental discharge.

We have, howver, had quite a few with Weatherby Mk V rifles made in Japan.

If you chamber a round, put the safety on, the rifle sometimes fires as the safety is taken off.

This has happened on several of these rifles we had.

Lawsuits, news stories, and accidents have persisted for years.


1971 - "Gus Barber was killed by an accidental discharge of a Remington Model 700 rifle." (CBS)
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...ews/main301947.shtml

quote:

Very quietly, Remington has settled dozens of lawsuits arising from the Model 700.

Even in its internal memos, which were an exhibit in one lawsuit, Remington acknowledged that some of its early Model 700 rifles could be "tricked" into firing.

And the complaints just keep piling up, says Missouri attorney Rich Miller.

"At last count we had over 1,500 customer complaints of similar malfunctions."

Lawsuits allege rifles had defective triggers resulting in misfires, injuries:
http://www.setexasrecord.com/n...entview.asp?c=221463

quote:

After each firing, during the recoil action, the connector separates from the trigger body and creates a gap between the two parts. During the separation, dirt, debris or manufacturing scrap can become lodged in the space and prevent the connector from returning to its original position.

The lawsuits allege that if the connector is not in the original position, the gun can fire without the trigger being pulled, including when the safety is released, bolt is closed or when the bolt is opened.

According to the allegations, the defendant has known of the defect for 60 years and has more than 4,000 documented complaints of unintended discharge and has paid more than $20 million in settlements to "injured consumers."

The plaintiffs believe that the defendant will not recall the millions of defective rifles because of financial strain and a "profits over safety" mentality.

Monsees, Miller, Mayer, Presley & Amick As personal injury lawyers

quote:

Numerous Deaths and Injuries From Remington Rifles That Fire Without A Trigger Pull: We have handled approximately 50 cases against Remington Arms Company, Inc., now known as Sporting Goods Properties, Inc. and its parent corporation, E.I. DuPont deNemours and Company regarding their defective and dangerous bolt action firearms (Models 700, 600, 660, XP 100, 721, 722 and 40X). These guns can fire upon release of the safety, movement of the bolt, or merely as a result of being jarred due to a design defect in the fire control system, which was known when it was patented in 1950. In addition, until 1982 all of these firearms contained a bolt lock, which required the user to release the safety, thereby arming the gun, before it could be loaded or unloaded. We have collected literally thousands of complaints of these malfunctions and have hundreds of company documents discussing the issue. Remington recalled the Model 600 and 660 carbines in the late 1970s and its new owners recently instituted a program to delete the bolt locks on all other models. Juries in all four trials have awarded significant actual damages and three verdicts for punitive damages, the most recent verdict being in excess of $17,000,000. We sincerely hope that the new company's safety modification program reduces the number of deaths and injuries caused by this dangerous product.

If a manufacturer makes a product that fails and is inadequate, then they have the liability of that problem. That does not however excuse poor firearms handling. Anyone who points a gun that is loaded at something alive that they don't want to kill is a fool. Period. It doesn't matter weather safetys are on, off, working or not working. You just don't point guns that way. Now sometimes things happen and hopefully you don't have a mechanical failure at the same time you have some other accident (like an idiot running out in the line of fire or something) but any mechanical device is prone to failure and anyone who expects that device to always work no matter what is going to have a problem at some point. Cars break down, engines fail, breaks go out. This is why airplanes have multiple backup systems. Mechanical devices fail.

It is horific to think of my child dieing do to a "AD", however, if I had the gun pointed at the child, then I have more liability than a manufacturer. Remington cant make you keep a gun clean, they cant make you inspect a rifle, they can't keep you from having bubba adjust your trigger.

The NRA in its basic pistol classes stresses that a safety is a "mechanical device that can FAIL." That's just the way it is, so know where your gun is pointed, know where your fingers are and don't be non-chalant with a firearm at any time, especially when manipulating it in a way that cycles the action, safety etc. You MUST think about the time when the worst will happen.

Just my opinion, but it's a good one!

quote:

Originally posted by guncurtis2:
If a manufacturer makes a product that fails and is inadequate, then they have the liability of that problem. That does not however excuse poor firearms handling. Anyone who points a gun that is loaded at something alive that they don't want to kill is a fool. Period. It doesn't matter weather safetys are on, off, working or not working. You just don't point guns that way. Now sometimes things happen and hopefully you don't have a mechanical failure at the same time you have some other accident (like an idiot running out in the line of fire or something) but any mechanical device is prone to failure and anyone who expects that device to always work no matter what is going to have a problem at some point. Cars break down, engines fail, breaks go out. This is why airplanes have multiple backup systems. Mechanical devices fail.

It is horific to think of my child dieing do to a "AD", however, if I had the gun pointed at the child, then I have more liability than a manufacturer. Remington cant make you keep a gun clean, they cant make you inspect a rifle, they can't keep you from having bubba adjust your trigger.

The NRA in its basic pistol classes stresses that a safety is a "mechanical device that can FAIL." That's just the way it is, so know where your gun is pointed, know where your fingers are and don't be non-chalant with a firearm at any time, especially when manipulating it in a way that cycles the action, safety etc. You MUST think about the time when the worst will happen.

Just my opinion, but it's a good one!

Yes, we all know about proper handling of firearms. But the fact remains that firearms have fired when they should not have.

I guess this poor SOB should have known "any mechanical device is prone to failure and anyone who expects that device to always work no matter what is going to have a problem at some point" when he was lying behind his rifle and attempted to unload it.

quote:

Attempting to unload a Remington 700 rifle, New Mexico resident George Montes was injured when the rifle fired, throwing the bolt back and hitting his eye.

Yes, we all know about proper handling of firearms. But the fact remains that firearms have fired when they should not have.

I guess this poor SOB should have known "any mechanical device is prone to failure and anyone who expects that device to always work no matter what is going to have a problem at some point" when he was lying behind his rifle and attempted to unload it.

quote:

Attempting to unload a Remington 700 rifle, New Mexico resident George Montes was injured when the rifle fired, throwing the bolt back and hitting his eye.

[/QUOTE]

If you notice, I started by saying that the manufacturer is liable for its failures. The incident you mention may well be manufacturing problem. Fine then, sue them if thats the case. I'm refering to billy bob shooting his buddy cuz he had the gun pointed at his buddy while working the bolt on a loaded gun. Billy bob is an idiot.

I'm not the biggest fan of remy's and I certainly don't like a two position bolt locking safety, but i see people handle guns stupidly all the time and say something like "well it's on safe." It's just not ok. When your handling skills are up to snuff and you have an AD then you know you did your part. Unfortunately, too many injuries are blamed on mechanical failures, when proper handling would have stopped the injury, even if the mechanical failure still occured.

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:

I came out of the woods, flicked off the safety to work the bolt, the only way to clear the magazine as well as the chamber, (I hate ADLs for that reason) and BAM the gun went off.

It never happened again so I thought that somehow I was @ fault. In years since I've learned that it wasn't me, but the gun.



I narrowly missed putting a .243" hole in my VW Golf.

Ya know, you can short stroke the bolt. No need to fully cycle it just to unload. Just need to work it enough to get the cartridge clear of the magazine.

Keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction is mandatory no matter what safety you have. They can all fail.

My first centerfire bolt gun was a 700 ADL. Still have it. Never had a problem.

quote:

Attempting to unload a Remington 700 rifle, New Mexico resident George Montes was injured when the rifle fired, throwing the bolt back and hitting his eye.

Can anyone possibly explain how any bolt rifle can fire without the front locking lugs being fully engaged?....and shearing off the locking lugs on a Rem 700 is almost impossible I'd guess!

I know this discussion has gotten heated, But can someone calmly explain the Remington safety issue to me? I've either missed something or don't understand.

I'm aware that the older Remington trigger, used for many years, can fire when the safety is moved to from safe to fire. I have no experience with the latest trigger.

But I don't understand the discussion about having to move the safety off to work the bolt - My M700 bolt will work with the safety on safe???