I would like to read some more discussion about the 338-06. The more I think about it the more appealing that cartridge seems. From what I know, the old 318 Westley Richards was close to the 338-06, and the reputation of the old cartridge was great, based on the info I read.

Also, I would like to read what you guys think of a 12" twist rate in the 338-06, since up to the 250 gr bullet should stabilize just great in that twist. Besides, the bullet weight range that I think most likely to be used is 200-225 gr.

KB

My dad uses 210s and 250s. But frankly if I had it to do over (I had his rifle built) I would go straight to 9.3x62.

I have a .338-06. I like it a lot. My rifle has the standard, i.e. .338 Win Mag, rifling twist.

I would liken it's performance to a .30-06 mated with an oriental martial artist: it's terminal performance belies it's size. And it does this without the viscous kick of fast magnums or the stout kick of larger bore sizes. This is the reputation cartridges like the .318 Westley Richards you mentioned, the 8x64S Brenneke and the 9.3x62 have.

In architecture, they talk about the golden 'rule' of geometrical proportion. I think these, and many other classic cartridges, have struck upon the ideal balance of velocity,trajectory,frontal area and bullet mass.

Of course, bullet quality / performance plays a big part and realistic expectations of field performance - what they were used for.

It is not a long range cartridge. In my experience, I would limit it to within 250 yards. I have a .30-06 and am confident about stretching the range to 250 - 300 yards using 165 and 180 grain bullets.You could drop a couple of bullet weights with the .338-06 and achieve something similar to the .30-06, but then you'll loose the advantages the .338-06 has over the .30-06.

I think the optimal bullet weight for .338-06, barring 'special' applications, is 210 grains. Below that weight I think you are better off with a .30-06. Much above 210 grains, the velocity and trajectory is n't there and you would be better off moving up a bore size etc.

In my experience (with my rifle), 225 grains is about the limit for useful velocity. Running my home loads over a chronograph, sticking religously to the reloading manual recipes, the velocities I am obtaining are well short of those given in Barnes, Nosler and Hornady loading data books. I am struggling to get 2630 fps without excessive pressure and around 2600 fps with the 225 grain bullet is more typical.

None the less, I doubt an additional 75 - 100 fps makes much difference in the field. The .338-06 is a lot more pleasant to shoot than the magnum medium bores, so you will be able to shoot more accurately.

I have noticed the .338-06 'spoils' less meat than, say, the .270 Win with 130 and 140 grain bullets, but I admit this is strongly influenced by bullet design and not just impact velocity.

Returning to the application theme, I think of my .338-06 as a heavy deer rifle. I believe it is a better cartridge to shoot a medium sized bear with than say a .30-06 due to it's greater frontal area and the ability to shoot slightly heavier bullets at useful velocities.

I would go as far as to say I would prefer to shoot a bigger bear with a 225 grain .338-06 than say a 180 or 200 grain .300 Win Mag due to the 'bigger hole' syndrome (temporary and permanent cavitation promoting blood loss) and the probability that more of the energy would be transferred to the target. Similarly, I would prefer a 9.3x62 to the .300 Win Mag. We are talking here of similar striking energies at hunting ranges - but making use of greater frontal area and bullet weight - momentum.

I must point out this is all theoretical, I have never shot a bear, but base this on research - Rathcombe / ballistics, Tony Russ's books etc.

In the 'Good Old Days', Royal Navy Officers learnt, amongst other sea faring skills, fencing and how to dance. However, when the junior lieutenant led the ship boarding party up and over the side of the pirate ship, he did not carry an epee or foil. He carried a cutlass. I subscribe to the "Lizie Borden" school of fencing as well .

I am doing load development at present on my 338-06. Built it on a FN mauser action ( originally Armee Haitee 30-06 ) with 22 inch , 1-12 twist Douglas barrel.

I am hoping that this rifle will do all the things I have read from the "experts" , but I am keen to hear more about its capabilities too.

I also have a 35 Whelen in development , and have just discovered that my 9.3x57 has been previously rechambered to 9.3x62 - so I have tha mid-range calibres reasonably covered methinks .

My 338-06 was a pre 64 FWT 30-06. Rebored to 338 and comes all in at just under 8 lbs. A pleasure to carry and shoot. Rifle will shoot several bullets less than MOA. It has been to NWT and taken moose/caribou w/225 Nosler Partition, Alaska and taken a brown bear w/250 A FR and most recently to Zim where we took zebra/bushpig/sable/bushbuck/wildebeest and waterbuck w/210 TTSX all animals above being one shot kills. Recovered two bullets one from the sable and it was the perfect Barnes mushroom and the second a 225 Partiton from the moose which was also a perfectly expanded bullet against the offside hide.

Rifle now carries a leo 1.75X6E w/talley QD rings/bases. The FWT barrel was just large enough to provide size for the 338 caliber.

I have another standard pre 64 barrel rebored to 338 just awaiting the next available (at price) pre 64 action. Guess I do like this caliber!

robthom:

Great post. Thank you for putting in the effort. Very good stuff.

I have a 338-06, a 35Whelen and a 9.3x62 and have shot a variety of PG with each of them. So far, not one kudu, oryx, zebra or heartebeast has complained or shown a preference. I like my 338 the best probably because it's housed in a rilfe I like better than the other two. I have found no difference in the three cartridges under African field conditions on PG sized game smaller than eland.

With respect to reloading, I have several hundred rounds of military brass I have necked up to 338. The brass lasts, and lasts, and lasts. As for my bullet selection, I use a modest load with a 225 grain Barnes TSX. Good hunting accuracy. Effective in the field. Comfortable to shoot.

TWL

I put together a 338-06 on the cheap after reading all the positive comments from its many admiring owners. It is one of the least finicky rifles I own. With every 225 and 250 grain bullet I've tried, I get terrific accuracy at near maximum velocity for the cartridge. It's a very easy cartridge to load and components are easy to come by - even properly headstamped brass is readily available.

My rifle has a marked preference for 225 grain and heavier bullets. It achieves suitable hunting accuracy with various 210s but nothing to brag about.

I haven't tested my rifle on anything heavier than some Texas hogs but it makes nice big holes in everything. I own a 338 Win Mag but its more of a special purpose rifle for me. The 338-06 is just a great all-around performer - fun to load and fun to shoot. As others have pointed out, there's a reason that medium bores at moderate velocities is a combination with long-lasting popularity.

I have killed a fair bit of game with the 318WR. Kills well
so would expect the 338/06 to do likewise.

But does it give you anything much over a 338WM or 9.3 x 62
where components etc are readily available ?

But it is definately a workable round.

My 338-06 is my goto NA huntig rig. A M77 put up in a laminated wood stock, it has taken everything from tiny Duiker to elk, Kudu & Zebra. From 50yds to 350yds, as long as I do my part. no animal has required more than one 210grNP.
Brass is easily made from 06 or 35whelen or can be bought from Norma. The 338-06 responds to all bullet wts from 18gr-250gr. I have some of the old 275gr SPeer SP but haven't gotten aorund to trying them. The 250gr anything @ 2500fps is a good killer, but I reserve it for woods hunting. I prefer the 210grNP @ 2750fps for an all-round bullet choice. The 200gr TTSX would also be a great choice.
Powders from IMR4064, RL15, VV150 up to H4350 & RL19 work well. A bit more gun that the 30-06 w/o giving up a reasonable flat trajectory. You get 338winmag power, just 75yds closer, in a 1 1/2#-2## lighter rilfe that doesn't beat you up. Great selection of bullets, what's not to like.

Built my 338-06 AI on a Sako m75 Greywolf with new barrel. LOVE IT. Still load developing. Shoots 225gr AB's and TTSX's quite nicely

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
With every 225 and 250 grain bullet I've tried, I get terrific accuracy at near maximum velocity for the cartridge.

My rifle has a marked preference for 225 grain and heavier bullets. It achieves suitable hunting accuracy with various 210s but nothing to brag about.

The preference for 225 gr and heavier bullets has been my experience also with one 338-06 improved, and two factory 338 WM. The thing they had in common was 10" twist rate. I couldn't get any of them to like bullets lighter than 225 gr.

But that all changed when I had a 338WM barreled with a Lilja 12" twist. That rifle shoots everyting I've tried in it well, from 200gr - 250gr. It likes (or maybe I like to shoot) 210-225gr best.

Seems to me that the theory of getting fastest twist available because you can shoot all bullet weights shows the flaw with that theory with the 338. When Winchester adopted the 338 WM, they offered 300 gr bullets in factory loads, which requires a 10" twist. Since generally the 250gr is max nowadays, seems to me that the 10" twist is faster than necessary.

Anyway, if I made a choice today, I would go with a 12" twist rate in a 338-06. Any comments on that?

KB

I built my 338-06 on a 1903 Springfield. I has a Shielen barrel (1:12 twist) and a Leupold 1.75 X 6 scope. It is a beauty to shoot and I still have difficulty deciding whether I like it or my 35 Whelen better. I normally shoot 225 gr loads in the 338-06 and 250 gr loads in the Whelen.

Barstooler

quote:

I built my 338-06 on a 1903 Springfield

Barstooler...

you are my kind of guy!

mine is on a Model 70 action..

but I admit, a Springfield would have been my first choice.. as I adhere to tradition..

both my .338-06's have 12 twist....one 20"bbl and the other 22"bbl....the .225 NF's work out really nicely in my Rem. 30 20". Of late I stick with either my Win.94 .30-30 w/180grn gc or the Vz24 9.3x62 for brush work. Am thinking of another 9.3x62 in my Win 70 crf and a 20"bbl in a 1:14 twist, off the subject I know but the 1:12 does well with my 225's in the 338-aught six...enjoy your new project!

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Anyway, if I made a choice today, I would go with a 12" twist rate in a 338-06. Any comments on that?

KB

If getting a custom barrel, don't they offer 1 in 11" ?

quote:

Originally posted by ar corey:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Anyway, if I made a choice today, I would go with a 12" twist rate in a 338-06. Any comments on that?

KB

If getting a custom barrel, don't they offer 1 in 11" ?

Maybe in Canada. I haven't seen a 1 in 11" listed, but I suspect you're joking.

I'm curious about the results with a 20" barrel?

KB

All I can say is you will not regret building a .338-06. I found a used .338-06 on a 1903 action as well and have fell in love with that rifle. I only push 200 grain Hornady's right now at 2880 fps I haven't tired anything heavier but I doubt I'll find any animals in CO that can stand up to that combo anyway.

Great thread men.

When I throw the chicken bones; I keep seeing a 338-06 in my future. I've been thinking of one for a long time now. This thread could seal the deal. Looks like a great elk cartridge.

I have a beautiful 338-06 AI built on a M98 action. My dad built it, and I am just starting to load for it and develope a load. Hoping it will really like the 225s.

Great post

quote:

Originally posted by Buff:
Great thread men.

When I throw the chicken bones; I keep seeing a 338-06 in my future. I've been thinking of one for a long time now. This thread could seal the deal. Looks like a great elk cartridge.

It is a great elk round for under 350yds. Beyond that, the extra vel of a magnum helps w/ bullet performance. The 210grNP seems made for the 338-06 @ 2750-2800fps. It just seems to hit harder than 180gr 06 on sim size game.
My rifle is a bit finicky as it does not like any 225gr bullet I have tried yet. It shoots 200, 210 & 250gr bullets all about the same, right @ 1moa, but the best I can do w/ 225gr is just over 2".

fredj338,what powders do you have the most
sucess with ?

I got my .338-06 two weeks ago. It's a Remington Model 700 with a 24 inch barrel. Clearwater Reboring did the barrel and put in a 1 in 10 twist. I loaded Barnes TTSX 210 grain over 51.5 grains of RL15 with CCI Large Rifle Size 200 primers seated .050 short of the lands. That is a right in the middle load according to Barnes #4 manual.

Out of the first six three shot groups the largest was .625 and the smallest .550 at 100 yards.

The problem is I am having a moderately stiff bolt lift, a bit of primer flattening and a shiny spot on the case head matching the ejector pin. My chrony says 2625 fps which is short of max in the manual.

Anybody have any suggestions as to why I am experiencing pressure signs so much slower than what everyone else is claiming?

To bad you guys weren't around when the .333 OKH was trying to get a toe hold. roger

With a factory gun in 338 RCM with a couple more grains capacity case I don't know what I would pick now.

My 338-06 is on a Rem 700 with 26"barrel with 1 in 10 twist.
60 grains ADI 2209, CCI mag primer behind the 225 grain Hornady Innterbond for 2700 fps which is mild in my gun.

Have loaded my cases 9 times and still haven't trimmed or full lengthed resized them yet.

Cheers Neale.

I have two 338-06ai...both built on M98 actions. One has a 19" barrel and I use it as a woods rifle shooting 180gr Accubonds and 200gr interlocks. The other has a 24" barrel and it gets fed 210gr partitions.

They both are accurate, easy to shoot, and deadly game. That short barreled rifle has become my go to rifle for deer...they never go far(usually a step or two) and there is very little meat damage.

Z

duurmeehr, I stopped at 51.0 gr RL 15 and 210 TTSX as my pre 64 w/fwt 22" barrel was doing the same thing with 52 gr. I do however, get up to 52 gr RL 15 with the regular TSX without the signs you mention. Both shoot very close to what you have observed. I am loading at max magazine of 3.39 as in this rifle the lands are out at 3.57.

The 210 TTSX is my best load at this point.

I have a 338-06 built on a pre 64 M70 action. 23" Kreiger barrel. IMO a 388 comes into its own with a 250 grain bullet. I have been loading the Nosler Partition and Accubond with good results.

My 338-06 seems to like either H4350 or Big Game with the 210 TSX. My best load for the last few years is Nosler 200 Accubond with either IMR 4064 or Rl 15.Drops elk in their tracks.

quote:

Originally posted by crabyx78:
fredj338,what powders do you have the most
sucess with ?

I started w/ IMR4320, then RL15, both shoot very well. Then like Rob1, I stumbled onto H4350. It gives me very iniform groups & good vel w/ compressed loads, 210grNP or 250gr anything. Varget was a bust, as were several others for accuracy reasons. I would be happy w/ RL15, but right now, I am stuck on H4350.

quote:

I only push 200 grain Hornady's right now at 2880 fps I haven't tired anything heavier but I doubt I'll find any animals in CO that can stand up to that combo anyway.

What velocities are the rest of you getting with 200 to 210gr bullets?
Hodgdon does not give loads much up to 2800 with the 200 grainers. I would love one, but need to get comfortably 2800fps with a minimum 200gr bullet for my big animals and open country.

I had 185 gr. bullets when I finished my rifle and some Viv. 150 and it will shoot under a 1/2" IF i do my part. It has a 1 in 10 twist, had some H414 I tried and it liked it also. No elk or bull moose in Oklahoma, I like this round because it HAMMERS our whitetails.
"Quote"
I would liken it's performance to a .30-06 mated with an oriental martial artist:

Said above; I think this about as close to this round as I've read concerning the 338/06.

quote:

Originally posted by Karoo:

quote:

I only push 200 grain Hornady's right now at 2880 fps I haven't tired anything heavier but I doubt I'll find any animals in CO that can stand up to that combo anyway.

What velocities are the rest of you getting with 200 to 210gr bullets?
Hodgdon does not give loads much up to 2800 with the 200 grainers. I would love one, but need to get comfortably 2800fps with a minimum 200gr bullet for my big animals and open country.

My 22 1/2" bbl tops out just over 2800fps for 200gr. It easily runs 2750fps w/ the exc 210grNP. I would think the 210grNP perfect for the bush veld hunting where you may shoot 50yds to 300yds. ANy 250gr cup/core will work well to. Vel are low enough to prevent any bullet blowup @ close range.

Out of Hornady's Manual.. a load of IMR 4895 pushes a 200 grainer out of the Muzzle in excess of 2900 fps.. and I have found it to be more accurate than their RL 15 option...

one load I have settled on tho is 50 grains of IMR 4064....with a 200, 225 and 250 grain bullet, they all have an MV of 2500 fps.. pretty much the same point of impact at 100 yds from my rifle..
so that is pretty handy..

for top velocity with the 225s and 250s tho, I rely on H 380... old load data.. but it works real well.. and gives the highest MVs of any other powder I have tried...

mine is a Model 70... and I don't see the need for premium bullets in mine.. relying on the plain old Hornady 200, 225 and 250 RN...

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Out of Hornady's Manual.. a load of IMR 4895 pushes a 200 grainer out of the Muzzle in excess of 2900 fps.. and I have found it to be more accurate than their RL 15 option...

one load I have settled on tho is 50 grains of IMR 4064....with a 200, 225 and 250 grain bullet, they all have an MV of 2500 fps.. pretty much the same point of impact at 100 yds from my rifle..
so that is pretty handy..

for top velocity with the 225s and 250s tho, I rely on H 380... old load data.. but it works real well.. and gives the highest MVs of any other powder I have tried...

mine is a Model 70... and I don't see the need for premium bullets in mine.. relying on the plain old Hornady 200, 225 and 250 RN...

Mine seems to like 4064 and 225gr bullets as well.

Barstooler

I have heard, and read enough positive about this round that I have considered building one for my son. I have a 338 WM and love it with Barnes 210 TSX's. If I were working up loads for a 338-06, I wouldn't ignore the 210 grain bullets or the Barnes 185 TSX. Penetration would be equivelent or better than most 225's with the 210's. I get very good accuracy with both but have settled on the 210s because they do everything I need done. DW

My 338-06 is built on a Kimber 89 action and has a short throat. I can get 2830 fps with the 210 NP but the accuaracy goes to pieces after 2675 fps. Interesting!

Mark

Regarding the .338-06, I have the AI version that I need to get the throat recut; so I have not shot it yet. Does anyone know how long the barrel can be before velocity stops increasing enough to warrent the added length? Mine is 25" now and thinking about having it cut back to 23" before finishing the project. However, if I can get an added 100 fps with leaving it 25", I will, if not, then it's gettin cut. Thoughts?

338-06.....Hmmmmm

I'd rather have a 30/06 or a 338WM.

Glad you guys are having fun

AzG- You will now be gettin ya one! Yes, the 338-06 fits nicely between my 338WM and a couple of common 30-06's. I am even considering taking it to NM in Nov for elk in lieu of the 300 WBY but probably will not.