Dew, I've loaded for the 338wm, a bit for the 340 & the 375h&h as well as my 338-06 & a 338x74K, only in single rifles though. I could NOT get much more tha 2700fps w/ 250gr bullets in a 24" bbl in the 338wm before pressure signs started popping up. I could get just under 2600fps in my 24"bbl Ruger w/ 300gr bullets. The 35"bbl 338x74K, only 2650fps w/ 20gr bullets. I've taken a bunch of game w/ the 338-06, only a couple of heads each w/ the 375h&H or 338winmag, so as to perception of killing better, I'ld have to defer to you, but the 375h&h seems to smack em down pretty hard upto 700# or so.

quote:

It's closer to 300 FPS difference. My pet load launches 200gr pills at 3150fps out of my 26" tube.

If I had a 26"bbl on my 338-06, I would think the vel around 2950fps+, so we'll call it 200fps diff pushing both hard.

quote:

If I had a 26"bbl on my 338-06, I would think the vel around 2950fps+, so we'll call it 200fps diff pushing both hard.

That's fair, because I do push things hard...unless my groups tell me otherwise.....

IMO, the .338/06 and .35 Whelen are 2 very efficent, but under appreciated cartridges. In terms of powder burned compared to energy/momentum/bone crushing killing potential, both do a very good job. It would be nice to see someone do a limited run of these rifles, and offer brass for both. Heck I'd like to see TC and NEF offer barrels in these two calibers. Right now, much of the marketing is concentrated on the big super magnums, so I just don't know how well these old classics would sale. In any event, don't expect to see me trading my .338 WM for either one anytime soon.

just got myself a m70 classic in 3006 today that weighs 7 1/4 lbs bare nekid. the barrel contour seems ripe to be duplicated into the 338-06. this fall order up a micky in edge and add some necg backup iron sights and presto!

Congratulations JSL.
It will thump anything you care to hunt up there in Maine!

Back in 2000 I took a then current CRF M-70 Sporter, rebarreled with a 24" Lilja to .338-06 added a set of fixed Express sights, barrel band frt sling swivel mount, and added a 1.5-5X Leupold in removeable Talleys.

It was finished two days before leaving on a plains game hunt in RSA. Between final trip issues, and working 10 hr days I was unable to do but the minimum of load work before leaving. I had a 250 Swift a-Frame load that was sub 1" at 100 yds and was towards the Max end of the data I had. My chrony had broken so no velocity data available.

I can recall doing my final sighting in the night before we left with car headlights!

Shot a good waterbuck, A truly large Livingston eland, two impala, and a red hartebeest all with a single shot and zero drama. Ranges were from 35 to 75 yds at most.All slugs recovered looked like advertisement slugs; perfect mushrooms.

Got home and my new Oehler chronograph had arrived. My RSA load with those 250 gr Swift A-Frames ended up having a rathe SEDATE velocity of 2440 fps!! hardly what the gun was capable of.

That fall I shot a mature bull elk , but with 225 NP's at 2550 fps at close to 300 yds. Got both lungs and broke a shoulder.

I built my .338-06 as I'd read so much about the .318 Westley Richards and how well it performed all over Africa. Personally I'm very happy with this gun and could care less that I'm giving up 300 fps to a .338 Win Mag. Sometimes a little less is really a lot more.

FN in MT

I had a similar experience with my 338 Win Mag. I was shooting 250 grain Swift A-Frames without the benefit of a chronograph. For a few years including two extended hunts in Africa, that load absolutely waxed whatever I shot with it. After I got my chronograph I was surprised to find the velocity was just barely 2500 fps.

My first response was to dump more powder in the case. I got the velocity up another 200 fps or so but a third trip to Africa with the rifle convinced me that it wasn't any more effective than it was with its more modest velocity. My second, more reasoned, response was to explore building a 338-06 which I eventually did.

With the 338-06, I'm pusing 225 grain bullets at 2650 or so and it is a very accurate load. It's just about the easiest rifle to load for that I own.

The best way to put this into perspective is this: The 338-06 is right between the 30-06 and 338 WM, and oft compared to the 318 WR.

Does anything more need to be said?

Pretty shoddy company eh? (sarcasm)

I have owned five different 338-06's, still own two and soon to add a third.

My next 338-06 is going to be a Model 70 Classic Featherweight rebarreled with a 1:12.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
Dew, I've loaded for the 338wm, a bit for the 340 & the 375h&h as well as my 338-06 & a 338x74K, only in single rifles though. I could NOT get much more tha 2700fps w/ 250gr bullets in a 24" bbl in the 338wm before pressure signs started popping up. I could get just under 2600fps in my 24"bbl Ruger w/ 300gr bullets. The 35"bbl 338x74K, only 2650fps w/ 20gr bullets. I've taken a bunch of game w/ the 338-06, only a couple of heads each w/ the 375h&H or 338winmag, so as to perception of killing better, I'ld have to defer to you, but the 375h&h seems to smack em down pretty hard upto 700# or so.

quote:

It's closer to 300 FPS difference. My pet load launches 200gr pills at 3150fps out of my 26" tube.

If I had a 26"bbl on my 338-06, I would think the vel around 2950fps+, so we'll call it 200fps diff pushing both hard.

Well, your results were what I was getting from Jan. '68 to 1990, when a professor I used to shoot with and once hunted with told me that his custom Douglas barreled Rem. 700, 24" got 2840 fps-mv. with RE-22-77 grs. and that MRP and RE-22 would seriously outrun any other powders in the .338WM.

So, I hied myself to ye olde gunshoppe and bought some RE-22 and carefully worked up to his load of 77 grs-250 NPs, good accuracy and then decided I would cut it one grain as my P-64 Alaskans have a shorter action than the 700, so, while I saw no escess pressure indicators, the seating of the bullets deeper into the case might give high pressures in my rifles.

I went to the 76 gr. load and have now shot this for about 19 years and it clocks at 2800 from the 25" tube. MRP will supposedly do as well, can't say, never tried it. I bought 30 lbs in 5 lb. kegs of RE-22 and went to work and now have maybe 2-3 lbs left. These are the only powders I know of that will give such velocities with no excess pressure..and H-4350 and IMR-4831 are close.

But, much the same thing is said to happen with the 9.3x62 and Ramshot Big Game, in that it will give better velocities with 286 gr. slugs than any other powder, according to John Barsness. I have a bunch of loads of this for my 9.3s and simply need time to get to the range and get them tuned.

So, to me, the extra vwlocity is worth it and to others it ain't, it is an individual decision, IMO.

Don't know what all the fuss is about. The .338 bullet is great and it doesn't matter what case is pushing it and which barrel it's coming from.

It's all good. Shoot what you like and have fun doing it. No need to split hairs.

Antelope Sniper, TC makes/made the 338 Federal, I KNOW it's NOT and never will be an -06, but with 185 TSX and 200s, it's not a bad package to 300 yds, a MMAGGI said, ANY 338 bullet will do the job if you do yours, regardless of the headstamp. Recently there was a test of shortened barrles, or efficiency in a gun mag, the Encore fluted blued 338F bbl was chopped to 20", NICE HANDY and gave good speeds for the round.

Now if Kimber made a Montana 338-06....but until then there is the Federal, and it's a handy package at little more than 5lb IIRC.

FN in MT. My loads below were in a 23" Hart.

55gr 225 2670mv Speer, Noz, and Hornady
58 215 2790mv
60 200 2909mv

Using WW brass, IMR 4320, partial sized, my throat was for a 250 grainer.

200s shot 1/2 MOA all day every day - B. Tips
225s - all 3 shot same POI at 200 yds, 1.25" at 200 yds.

I just posted this question in the reloading forum: what does it mean to have a long throat/why is it done?

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
I just posted this question in the reloading forum: what does it mean to have a long throat/why is it done?

Reamer gives more 'Freebore' between the neck of the case, and the lands of your rifling. This is done to allow a longer heavier bullet, room to fit in the chamber, and hopefully magazine if your rifle has one, and all mesh together while not forcing one to say load a bullet unnecessarily deep into the cartridge base, thereby reducing valuable case capacity.

SO, it allowed me to load my bullets OAL OUT further with light bullets, STILL TOUCHING THE LANDS, all the while fitting and feeding within the constraints of my magazine box.

Seems Hart barrels suggested it, and I took their advice, and never regretted that rifle done that way. YMMV.

Hope that helps.

quote:

60 200 2909mv

That is VERY respectable.

The throat on my STW is way to long. Consequently the rifle likes a longer OAL then is comfortable in the magazine. Once I've shot out the throat, I'll have my smith bring it in a turn or two and shorten the throat.

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
[QUOTE]60 200 2909mv

That is VERY respectable.
QUOTE]

Indeed, I was impressed by the ballistics, and anyone who thinks the 338-06 is a short range gun, better look again......at a ballistics calculator. Hammered a few whitetails with it No Bull Elk felt 'lucky enough' when I carried it to Colorado to show himself.

I'll stick with the 338wm even though the loads I used for years can be replicated in 338/06. Factory rifles and factory ammo outweigh benefit of one or two more rounds in magazine to me. Either is as close to an all around rifle as you could want.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
I'll stick with the 338wm even though the loads I used for years can be replicated in 338/06. Factory rifles and factory ammo outweigh benefit of one or two more rounds in magazine to me. Either is as close to an all around rifle as you could want.

You poke a hole thru the vitals of anything with a decent 338 bullet, it's game over.

That hole will be a nice size, and typically exit so plenty penetration, headstamp is irrelevant.

Factory rifle/ammo no doubt a bonus for some.

My wife and I used a 338/06 for our light rifle on our latest Safari to So. Africa and Tanzania and took Springbok to Zebra and Kudu out to 311 yards all of 17 animals--except 3--were one shot kills.

My wife now reaches for this rifle instead of her 270 Winchester, "...just because I have so much confidence in it." She has taken elk sized game out to 356 yards with one shot.

We use 210 grain bullets at about 2850 and have had great success with the Nosler Partition and barnes Triple Shock and the 200 grain Hornady.

It worked so good on our Safari I just had one put together with a Remington 78 action and Hart barrel; It shot at three shot group at 100 yards that measured .98"!!! Can't wait for deer season.

What powder are you getting 2850/210s with?

How long is your bbl and what action did you use?

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5BR:
What powder are you getting 2850/210s with?

How long is your bbl and what action did you use?

Thanks.

the question wasn't asked to me...

but I can tell you that 63 grains of H 380 and a standard large rifle primer will give you that MV out of a 24 inch barrel...

Nice, thanks John, played with 414 and maybe 380, but very little, and did not get what I was looking for, perhaps didn't work up to it's potential.

35 WHELEN!

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5BR:
Nice, thanks John, played with 414 and maybe 380, but very little, and did not get what I was looking for, perhaps didn't work up to it's potential.

Cliff,

H 380 likes a full case, and the accuracy was better with Regular Large Rifle primers in mine..

but H 380 gave me the highest velocity and accuracy combo...with 200, 225 and 250 grainers..

for elk in Oregon here, I use a stiff load of H 380 and a 250 grain RN Hornady..

My 338-06 is my favorite centerfire rifle. Pre-64 Win Model 70 action with a 24" PacNor barrel. 61 grains of Ramshot Big Game gets ~2800 fps and shoots an inch at 200 yds. My brother has a Sako 338 Win Mag that shoots more powder, has more recoil carries less rounds in the gun and doesn't offer more performance than what I have. His only advantage is that he could buy ammo at Wallyworld if he had to.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5BR:
Nice, thanks John, played with 414 and maybe 380, but very little, and did not get what I was looking for, perhaps didn't work up to it's potential.

Cliff,

H 380 likes a full case, and the accuracy was better with Regular Large Rifle primers in mine..

but H 380 gave me the highest velocity and accuracy combo...with 200, 225 and 250 grainers..

for elk in Oregon here, I use a stiff load of H 380 and a 250 grain RN Hornady..

John, thanks, I know I tried 414, but don't recall the charge, and I am pretty sure I felt the need to use a mag primer......

I'm sorry, I neglected to mention that I shoot a Barnes 210 grn TSX w/ the load of 61 grns of Ramshot Big Game.

I am looking for an old 06? Ruger m77R tang safety to use for my 338-06 custom. Because this cartridge is still lurking in the shadows of most ammo manufactures I was considering an AI. I have been considering building one of these for many years and my first load was going to be a 210 grain Barnes XBT. That is now obsolete so it is going to be the 210 grain TSX-BT which is an improved version. In and AI I should see 2900+fps which should be all I will need to kill everything on this continent. I don't believe that the larger bullets offer any more killing power and no more penetration.

Captian,just my opinion,i have 2 338/06,one improved and one standard,from my expierence the ai version doesn't do anything in that format that my standard won't do as good or better.To get the same velocity in the ai as in my standard i had pressure indications that i couldn't live with.
Some time in the future my ai will be a standard.
As an aside the 338/06 is my go to for most everything i hunt.

I kinda thought the reason for a 338-06 was to get a bit more thump. Thus you would be looking for a heavier bullet traveling at a still excellent velocity.
If a larger bullet doesn't offer anything in the penetration or killing department, why not just go with a .243? Or a .223?

Speed in and of itself kills. That's why all of the Cape Buffalo hunters use .220 Swifts.

huh?

quote:

Originally posted by crabyx78:
Captian,just my opinion,i have 2 338/06,one improved and one standard,from my expierence the ai version doesn't do anything in that format that my standard won't do as good or better.To get the same velocity in the ai as in my standard i had pressure indications that i couldn't live with.
Some time in the future my ai will be a standard.
As an aside the 338/06 is my go to for most everything i hunt.

Thanks for the helpful input. Need a break down on barrel length, load, velocities and bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Finlander:
I am looking for an old 06? Ruger m77R tang safety to use for my 338-06 custom. Because this cartridge is still lurking in the shadows of most ammo manufactures I was considering an AI. I have been considering building one of these for many years and my first load was going to be a 210 grain Barnes XBT. That is now obsolete so it is going to be the 210 grain TSX-BT which is an improved version. In and AI I should see 2900+fps which should be all I will need to kill everything on this continent. I don't believe that the larger bullets offer any more killing power and no more penetration.

Mine is built on a M77 tnag safety w/ 22 1/2" bbl in a lam stock. It pretty much lives on 210grNPs @ 2750fps for everything. I am playing around w/ the 210grTTSX, I think more places are going to ban lead core bullets sooner than later here in the US. I'm nots sure you get much w/ the AI, but you are doing a new bbl & handloading anyway, why not?

That is good to hear. I was planning on a 24" barrel and 2800 fps for the 210 gr tsx-bt. I was conservatively estimating 2900 fps with the AI but it appears as though that is difficult to achieve.

my m70 has a 24" tube and isn't the least unwieldy. i could actually see this caliber in a nice slim 25 or 26" barrel and with a nice slim stock have terrific handling qualities.

I envy all you folks who get to hunt critters larger than the deer and bear we have here in PA.
Here a 30-06 will do everything a big game hunter will ever need. However about 20 years ago I decided to buy a .300 Win mag. I hunt farms where hill side to hill side shooting is the norm so figured the added speed would be good plus if I ever had the chance to go for Elk I would be o.k.
That rifle has served me well but not until I added a muzzle brake. It was just to much rifle for me. Well a gun safe full of rifles later and I feel the need for something that will throw a bigger bullet just to have it. .338WM and another muzzle brake? I would rather not, so this thread has me looking at the 338-06. Do I need it? No not at all so a couple hundred fps will not matter but 225 grain bullets with greater frontal area than an 8x57 has with similar recoil would be nice in the mountains if I ever get a chance to shoot a blackie. So is this rifle for me? Much more recoil than a 30-06 is not my idea of fun.

Don,

According to folks I have talked to here in Maine, the 338-06 and the Whelen have a quiet following. If you wanted to reproduce the redoubtable 318 WR experience you could load a 250 gr bullet at 2350-ish. In fact, a famous SA maker named Sabi built its own cartridge called the 338 Sabi, which is reportedly similar to the 338-06 but with slightly more case capacity to provide lower operating pressures and they load it the same way: 250 at 2350 fps.

Reams have been written about this combo and its effects on non DG game both here and abroad. While many will compare and contrast with the Whelen or 9.3x62, the true comparison is with the 33 OKH and the 318 WR/333 Jeffery before it. The 338-06 appears from all angles to be a modern rendition of those cartridges albeit with a slightly larger bullet.

Perhaps some posters could upload their rifles to show you some examples? There is a hell of a rifle in this caliber on the Martini/Hagn website.

jsl3170,
Being a hand loader and hobby rifle builder, I like the chance to have rifles that are not off the shelf so to speak.

Agreed! I"ve said this before but the 338-06 has a sexy cool factor about it while the 30 06 is kinda like the girl your folks think you should marry. Turns out the 338-06 will do all the same things the 06 will but she's also a kinky bitch, too.

That pretty much sums up my fascination with this round.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
Agreed! I"ve said this before but the 338-06 has a sexy cool factor about it while the 30 06 is kinda like the girl your folks think you should marry. Turns out the 338-06 will do all the same things the 06 will but she's also a kinky bitch, too.

That pretty much sums up my fascination with this round.

Jeff

It is interesting how we perceive calibres differently. For me the 338-06 and 35 Whelen are very homely. I have them with the 7-08 and 308, the sort of calibres I would get as I am entering the nursing home

Jeff[/QUOTE]

It is interesting how we perceive calibres differently. For me the 338-06 and 35 Whelen are very homely. I have them with the 7-08 and 308, the sort of calibres I would get as I am entering the nursing home [/QUOTE]

I feel the same way, but only because by then one should have about all the wisdom they will ever get. You can't live that long and not learn something about efficient killing power without a lot of powder and recoil.

Have had half dozen .338 WMs, and am done with them. The .338-06 has all the punch needed for anything on this continent, in a light weight, easy recoiling rifle.

d,

how is your's set up given where you live?