This challenge came up on the small bores forum and while both have been discussed a few times, there remains a few challenges to my assertion that the .338-06 is a far superior cartridge to the .35 Whelen.

Let me begin the bout with the statement that when the .35 whelen was born it was in the search for a "poor Man's .375 H&H" It failed miserably then and today it's not much better. It's still not even close to being the .375 substitute and if they had just thought about a "poor man's .318 WR" we would have never been bothered by such a cartridge. The .338-06 would have been born and running the .30-06 out of business.

Take that you Whelen guys!!!

PS...all discussion to be with 26" and shorter barrels please.

I think most critters couldn't tell the difference between the two.

I like the 9.3X62 better than either of them but if I had to choose between the two, I'd pick the 35 Whelen. Of the .338 cartridges, my fav. is the 340 Wby.

Landrum

vapodog
I agree with a lot you post but this is about as bizarre an opinion I have ever heard. Both rounds are better than the '06 but there is in my opinion no overwhelming evidence as to which is superior to the other. Just look at the balistic coefficients of the various 35 and 338 bullets and show me the evidence of your assertions.

Counter Point: The 30-06 is better than both with 200gr bullets. Shoots flatter hits harder and goes deeper. Probably better than the 9.3 too.

If it was me, I'd pick the .35 Because you can plink with .357 pistol bullets. Besides, I'm not taking either in the woods for game. There are too many good cartridges to pick from without messing with these two mutts.

Now that I've pissed everybody off continue on HA!

Terry

I honestly see this thing as a what's better the 270 or the 280? In the real world it just doesn't matter. In the micro mgt world you can make cases both ways.

I'm a 33 fan, have been a 340 nut for years. Thus I went to the 338/06 and also have and use a 338/300 wsm.

Had I started out as a 358 STA fan then I most likely would of gone the Whelan route.

I just don't think it matters one bit.

But it is fun to cuss and discuss anyway.

MD

I think if your going to use bullets that large you may as well go with a .338 RUM, .340 WBY, .358 RUM or 9.3 DGW.....for me that case ('06) was designed for .308, .284 and .277 bullets, if a critter is so large or so far away that I feel the need to use .33 or .35 I feel I should deliver it with an appropriate amount of propellant. Does anyone know how to get 103 grains of Retumbo into an '06 case???

IV

TC1, you my friend are on drugs. Unless you are pushing the snot out of the 200gr 06, it just doesn't have the vel. of a 210grNP from the .338-06.
Idaho, the point of the .34 bore on a 06 case is you get a measurable level of perf. @ the same range as the 06. I'll agree, if I was shooting game routinely over 300yds, a .34 magnum makes a lot of sense. I think the Whelen would have a slight edge up close, say under 100yds, w/ 275gr bullets, but past 250yds, I would favor the .338-06. In between, probably not much diff. I'll keep my .338-06 though.

Gosh...I can't beleive that this dead horse is being beaten again...

I have a 338-06AI and a 35 Whelen..and I can't see any difference in the performance between the two in terms of velocity...game may be a different story but I doubt that too......I know how my Whelen works.. They both will work fine for my purposes...and anyway I wouldn't be caught dead with a cartridge with a freakin' belt...arrrggghhhh.. it just ain't natural!!

Yep..I reckon we are running out of stuff to argue about...

zeeriverrat1

quote:

Gosh...I can't beleive that this dead horse is being beaten again.

Yup.....ain't life interesting....If the .338-06 wasn't a semi quazy wildcat I'd own one now instead of a .30-06. I might build one anyway in spite of my lack of interest in wildcats.

quote:

the .338-06 is a far superior cartridge to the .35 Whelen.

Horseshit, I own them both and there isn't enough difference in field use to warrant a discussion. Use which one you like.

send me a barrel for each, i'll build a pair, and tell you in 15 years.

yeah, there's a huge lot of difference in a 9,3x61 vs a 9x61...

.008, or about a sheet of paper on each side!!!!

here's the story.. take the same bullet weight, the same case, and the big bore can push it faster...

OR

take the same case, the same velocity, the same pressure, and the bigger bore pushes a heavier bullet...


oh, stuff it all, we should all just go buy a 8x57 with iron sights and be done with it
jeffe

Good discussion. Kind of pointless, as they're both intended to push bigger bullets than the .30-06, and as stated by Jeffe, the .35 Whelen will push the same weight bullet faster than a .338-06. Winner.

Shooting a 210gr. bullet in a .338 is like buying a Ford Mustang with a V6 in it, sure, you get better mileage, but it's awfuly girly and all the *real* men point and laugh.

the only thing better is the 333-06
i looooove me some 338-06!
i want one in a rem 3600

quote:

Shooting a 210gr. bullet in a .338 is like buying a Ford Mustang with a V6 in it, sure, you get better mileage, but it's awfuly girly and all the *real* men point and laugh

I guess real men like 340 super mags (Weatherby or Remington, etc), wasting powder, making too much noise, and beating themselves up.

I haven't recovered a 210 grain NP bullet out of my 338-06 (2725fps) yet. After 6 shots at elk, all complete pass throughs. One shot entered behind the ribs and came out between the neck and off side shoulder(225 yards)!! Shots ranged from 90-250 yards. What more can you ask? The deer I've shot, it has actually been too much of a bullet, so I switched to 200 gr Hornady SP this year and hope they are a little softer for deer.

I know a casual acquaintance and his daughter that used a 338-06 with the 180 Nosler BT's on Buffalo and had complete pass throughs.

I've never understood the pistol bullet plinking thing, why? You can buy cheap Remington or Winchester rifles bullets and use mild loads for the same effect.

My theory on picking the 338-06 was the fact that I'd probably never need to use the 250 grain bullet. What wouldn't a 250 gr bullet tackle anywhere in the world, with the exception of the big five in Africa. And even then, I think you could tackle a Cape Buffalo and Leopard(for sure).

If I would ever need a bigger gun. I'm pretty sure I would step up higher than a 35 whelen or the 9.3x62.


A 250 gr bullet out of 338-06 @ 2600 fps vs a 250 grain bullet out of a 35 @ 2500 fps (per Hornady manual 6th edition) Which one would penetrate better? Barnes manual # 3 has 2500fps for the 35 and 2400 for the 338. Speer manual #13 has 2500fps for the 338 and 2300fps for the 35. Which one will penetrate better?

A 338-06 is to a 338 Win Mag is to a 340 super mag (Weatherby, RUM, etc. take your pick)
A 308 is to a 30-06 is to a 300 Win mag is to a 300 super mags.
The 338 Win Mag is a great cartridge, but I personally have a thing against belts.

The information above is what made me decide to originally pick the 338-06. So far I haven't been found wanting.

I just wish that Remington would have came out with the 338-06. It would have been a real winner. In my opinion, it's a better cartridge then the whelen. I feel that it is even better than it's parent, the great 30-06.

But shoot a critter with either the 30-06, 338-06 or the Whelen and you will probably have a dead critter.

I have a better idea for solving this. Let's get everyone together who owns 338-06 and a 35 whelen , or both. We all need to take a year and hunt N. America, Africa, S. America, Australia, New Zealand and Siberia. This would give us all valuable information in a side by side field comparison. Then we should be able to settle this discussion once and for all. Now all we need is sponsors.

I don't own the 35 whelan, but do own the 338/06 with a 24 inch barrel on it....It can do everything I want it to do....

I also load a 30/06 with 200 grain bullets cranking out the barrel ( 24 inch) at about 2800 fps ( we have had that discussion on the forum, but I still have not blown up anything!)

I had all the intentions in the world of building a 35 Whelen, when I thought I needed one of every caliber under the sun to be a real "man"...

However the first two combos did everything that a 35 Whelan would ever offer me.....

But in reverse, a 35 Whelan would also offer someone the exact things the first two offer....
Point being, you are just splitting hairs...

I would never be without a couple of 30/06s to my name.. I will never give up my 338/06 and I may never own a 35 Whelan, but if one came my way.. I would not refuse it a home in my gunrack...

This thread almost is as 'ridiculous' as some of the ones on the political forum...for having one point over the other...

That is just the way I see it..
cheers
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
This thread almost is as 'ridiculous' as some of the ones on the political forum...:

Wake me up when there is an important topic like bashing Remington 710's.

ZM

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:
A 250 gr bullet out of 338-06 @ 2600 fps vs a 250 grain bullet out of a 35 @ 2500 fps (per Hornady manual 6th edition) Which one would penetrate better? Barnes manual # 3 has 2500fps for the 35 and 2400 for the 338. Speer manual #13 has 2500fps for the 338 and 2300fps for the 35. Which one will penetrate better?

Something ain't right here. You take the same case and bullet weight, shrink the bore, and you will always get a slower speed....

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
TC1, you my friend are on drugs. Unless you are pushing the snot out of the 200gr 06, it just doesn't have the vel. of a 210grNP from the .338-06.
Idaho, the point of the .34 bore on a 06 case is you get a measurable level of perf. @ the same range as the 06. I'll agree, if I was shooting game routinely over 300yds, a .34 magnum makes a lot of sense. I think the Whelen would have a slight edge up close, say under 100yds, w/ 275gr bullets, but past 250yds, I would favor the .338-06. In between, probably not much diff. I'll keep my .338-06 though.

HA! And just the other day I was offered a pair of Leica's so I could look at porn. Man, I love hanging out here.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

This challenge came up on the small bores forum and while both have been discussed a few times, there remains a few challenges to my assertion that the .338-06 is a far superior cartridge to the .35 Whelen. ....<snip>......

"far superior"??????

Oh, please...............

.338-06, .35 Whelen, 9.3x62: Pick which one makes you happy and go hunting.

-Bob F.

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

This challenge came up on the small bores forum and while both have been discussed a few times, there remains a few challenges to my assertion that the .338-06 is a far superior cartridge to the .35 Whelen. ....<snip>......

"far superior"??????

Oh, please...............

.338-06, .35 Whelen, 9.3x62: Pick which one makes you happy and go hunting.

-Bob F.

LOL...good one...loved it.

Vapodog! I've been accused at times as being a shit stirer. Your ability far exceeds mine . I am humbled by your achievemnts.

From the postings on this one I would asertain that you are quite a fisherman also. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Vapodog! I've been accused at times as being a shit stirer. Your ability far exceeds mine . I am humbled by your achievemnts.

From the postings on this one I would asertain that you are quite a fisherman also. roger

Roger...this thread was started as a result of a topic on small bores
Yes, I like to fish as well and will post a fishing picture to prove it. For the record this is all in fun and I've said before that there's not much difference in the two but that I'd prefer the .338-06 as a personal favorite. It's a long time till hunting season in other words.
here's a fish:

I just read (actually re-read) an article in Handloader by the late Finn Aagaard on exactly this topic... He shows that the two are virtually identical ballistically, using 250-grain Noslers in both rifles.
Funny thing is, he shows how the 200-grain NP out-performs both in penetration out of an '06, and that, after all, is where the real judgment is, IMO. If it don't come out, I could care less what it did inside. Most of the animals big enough to be shot with one of these bigger rounds is big enough to take the shock and not fall. And I have seen how the big country can hide a big carcass... I wanna see a blood trail!!!
Now, having said all that, I am in the process of having a Whelen built... Just like the idea of a non-belted case that can hit like the .404 Jeffrey.
And, Vapodog, Bartsche is right...

Keep at it. I think I saw it move.

ZM

Reminds me how when you're a kid, it seems you always end up stepping in dog crap, but as you grow up, you tend to watch where you step.

I almost stepped in this one

I think its almost time to start another .270 vs. .30-06 thread......


IV

if it were not for "troll topics" and dead horses this forum would be a little stuffy so play along and it will get interesting and views challenged and sometimes new ideas and things learned, so troll on and i think this horse needs some more tenderizing

p.s.

maybe the topic threads should contain the info of trolling and dead horsebeating allowed or t.a.d.h.a.

Guys:

I am partly resposible for this thread. I was kidding "OL Vapodog" after he bushwacked the 220 Swift, in the smallbore forum, I knew he liked the 338-06, and the one I own is a POS. Soooo- thats how it started.

However, now that we are at it, lets forget the loading manuals and all the supposed to be facts, and post what we know to be "FACT".

Post your 338-06 bullet weights, velocities, and barrel lengths, then do the same for the Whelen, and lets make a comparision.

I get real tired of all the "experience" some people have, after reading a few publications of one kind or another. I own both cartridges, and can and will post my findings if we continue.

Good Job Vapodog.

Jerry

Nice pants vapodog

Craven

i liked the pants...i would take those while doing serious fishing on a boat in iffy weather in a heartbeat.

p.s...vapo...hows the 375 h+h rifle doing?

sorry

Vapodog,

I usually respect your input more than about 90% of the membership, but Im afraid your up in the night on this one my friend.

Ive heard and read reports of people and entities owning both and finding superior ballistic results at both ends of the argument, and you know what, I believe most all of them. The fact is they are brothers and no two rifles are the same. Use which ever one you choose AND LIKE IT!

I think they are both neat. The biggest difference IMHO is bullet selection, I grudgingly admit that the 338 variety will probably yeild better penetration on the average, especially with lead core bullets. But it is nothing that cant be matched by the Whelen by simply using a tougher bullet which there are a lot of thesedays. Far moreso than the inferior choice of 9.3 bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Zeke:

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
This thread almost is as 'ridiculous' as some of the ones on the political forum...:

Wake me up when there is an important topic like bashing Remington 710's.

ZM

Zeke:

Who would bash a Remington 710?? YOU mean someone actually Bought ONE?????

Not that is funny!

cheers
seafire

Nice Muskie?

Caught in Minnesota or Ontario?

The trees in the background doesn't look much like Nebraska or the Dakotas!

cheers
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Nice Muskie?

Caught in Minnesota or Ontario?

The trees in the background doesn't look much like Nebraska or the Dakotas!

cheers
seafire

Actually it's a Northern Pike caught in Lake St Joseph Ontario. It's 43" long (About 24 pounds) and was released to fight again.

good onya for the release

Well Vapodog:

So much for our honest comparison, based on actual results. Without guys putting up their test numbers, it becomes a Ford Chevy deal.

Hell we tried, in spite of all the sceptics.

Know anyone interestd in a 338-06 RCBS sising die?
I have decided to turn the offending rifle into a 257 RobertsAI.

Jerry

I solved this delima many years ago, I bought one of the first 338 Win. that came out, a move I have never regreted...

Sold my 338-06 and my two 35 Whelens, had no further need for them...I play with the 9.3x62 quite a bit and prefer it to the 338-06 or 35 Whelen, but again the .338 Win will beat it to death with a 210 Nosler at 3005 FPS and a 300 gr. Woodliegh at 2500 FPS and all this on the same action...As to recoil there isn't enough difference for me to tell....

9.3 x 62 338-06 35 whelen if we are reloading do the math ----count how many bullets are available for each caliber and you will clearly see the 35 has a very big advantage over the other two. If you don't reload, then it's like grab one and go.

quote:

Originally posted by bill439:
9.3 x 62 338-06 35 whelen if we are reloading do the math ----count how many bullets are available for each caliber and you will clearly see the 35 has a very big advantage over the other two. If you don't reload, then it's like grab one and go.

Actually Bill I did that and I used midsouth shooters supply as a fast counting place. They stock 809 different jacketed rifle bullets and this link shows the count per caliber.

The .338 has 37 entries and the .358 has 23 entries and the .366 has 9 entries.

Don't look to me like the 35 caliber wins at all.