How close to published velocities will a 24-inch barrel get? Would you buy a 220 Swift with a 24-inch barrel or would you find one with a 26? Thanks,

Landrum.

the velocity loss from a 26" to 24" barrel will never be noticed shooting at anything..... Possibly 50'/sec for the total of two inches.

I've owned two Swifts and frankly never again. There's no difference (practical) between it and the .22-250 and the .22-250 is a far superior and easier to load for case.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
I've owned two Swifts and frankly never again. There's no difference (practical) between it and the .22-250 and the .22-250 is a far superior...

Besides easier to load for case what else do you mean by that statement? I've noted it seems easier to find an accurate load with the 22-250, but my personal experiance is limited. I don't want to condemn it on such a small sample size.

What do you think of the new speed kings...the 223 WSSM and 204 Ruger?

I've had several of both would not rate one above the other for most shooting. I currently have a 28" Savage in 220 Swift that I think is marginally faster than a 22-250 of equal barrel length but the only thing I use the speed for is blowing things up at 100 yds for fun and illumination.

quote:

Besides easier to load for case what else do you mean by that statement? I've noted it seems easier to find an accurate load with the 22-250, but my personal experiance is limited. I don't want to condemn it on such a small sample size.

What do you think of the new speed kings...the 223 WSSM and 204 Ruger?

I've owned several 22-250 rifles and two .220 Swifts and find the swift disappointing to say the least. The case is somewhat rimmed and don't feed real well for me.....it seems finicky for reloading.....use only the slowest powders like H-414 and in the end you still can't beat the .22-250 with it's standard case head and true short action length.

The extra 100'/sec is not at all noticible and it consumes more powder.

About the wssm.....I've not tried it...sorry...the .204 Ruger is another story.....great round but IMO not better than a standard .223 with 40 grain ballistic tips. The .223 can push them about 3,800'/sec and that's impressive.

At one time my prairie dog arsenal consisted of six .223 rifles, a .22-250, a .220 Swift, a .243 superrockchucker and a .25-06.

in the end I'll have a pair of .223 and a .25-06. The .223 Remington is a spectacular cartridge and for the really long shots the .25-06 is right there. The Swift was the first to go.

Hey Vapodog:

You must be snake bit, in regards to the Swift! I find it as easy to reload as any other cartridge, and not any more finicky than our 22-250's. As to powder mine loves RL15, and runs a 55 grain ballistic tip @3800fps+, with 3 shots in one hole. Time after time after time.

Admit it, its a great cartridge, the king of the factory 22's, was and still is. The 22-250 is also an excellent cartridge. Even though I prefer the Swift, I still can't see any reason not to own a 22-250. I don't bash most good cartridges unless it happens to be the 338-06, now that is a POS!

Jerry

Jerry...
I agreed with every word you said...
right up to the 338.06 part....

YOU were batting a thousand and then crashed and burned right at the end....

cheers
seafire

I have had both .22/250 and .220 Swift . Never had feed problems in the 20 years I had a Sako Swift . Nothing you can load into a .22/250 will equal it . The harder you try , the more case trimming you'll do . The Swift case is simply bigger and stronger and in my experience less prone to stretching . It's reputation for accuracy is at least as good as the .22/250 .
I'd take another Swift tomorrow , but only the Ackley version of the .22/250 .
Hope that balances things up a bit .

My swift with RL15 took a 3rd place this weekend (factory VSSF) in an IBS 100yd match and had I been better prepared with my brass (some 1x fired and some virgin) I would have no doubt had 2nd place only to a guy who is a LV, HV circuit shooter who brought a Sako 6PPC to use. The savage 223's and one other sako lost out to my swift.

I load for my pards rem700 VLS is 22-250 and my rem700 VSSF in 220 swift and both are very accurate. Now as to the Swift being only equal, my chrono disagrees. Now it IS TRUE that an accuracy "node" can be found down at the 22-250 velocities,..but the swift also has a higher "node" available than does the 22-250 unless you just abuse it.

RL15 and Varget,...try em

a swift is a swift is a swift - there ain't nuthin like a swift. Especially when loaded right up to max with 50 gr blasistic tips in a crat infested neighborhood

quote:

Jerry...
I agreed with every word you said...
right up to the 338.06 part....

I think that was a shot at my posts favoring the .338-06....ok...that's fine.....

I admit the Swift is a fine cartridge, but not for me. Put two guys out shooting prairie dogs...one with a swift and one with a .22-250 and all other things being equal you can't tell the difference.

Further try this one.....put two guys out shooting prairie dogs...one with a .22-250 and one with a .223 and again many folks will not be able to tell the difference.

at last count own 5 Swifts.....been loading and shooting them for over 35 years.....have found 4064 and H414 to give consistent accuracy and top velocities....keep the cases trimmed and properly sized with loads that don't loosen primer pockets after a couple firings and the Swift will give top end performance...

no flies on the 22/250 either......

I think that's true, you won't see the difference shooting prairie dogs, but on coyotes that's another story. I've shot them with everything from a .22 LR to a .416 Rigby( I like to shoot a few coyotes with my big bores just to get used to them) and the .220 Swift just equals more dead coyotes than anything I've used. A .223 just doesn't flatten them like the .220 I have which is now on its third barrel and is a .220AI. I've only owned one Swift that wasn't a good shooter out of about 10 Remingtons, (customs) Sakos, and various Rugers I've owned.

quote:

in the end you still can't beat the .22-250 with it's standard case head and true short action length.

Just to vote here for the Swift if one wants the orginal death ray. In any case the Swift has a standard case head and is a true short action cartridge as well.

As to feeding anything can happen. My old M70 that was a 243 now feeds the Swifts in a perfect manner.

This 26" factory barrel will do an easy 4000 fps+ with the 50 gr Blitz Kings. And the Swift case is indeed stronger, just section a 22-250 and a Swift and for hot loads the Swift remains king of the .22's.

Vapodog:
I was just having some fun, at your expense! LOL.

Really, the 338-06 is a good cartridge. In my experience, my 338-06 can't hold a candel to my 35 Whelen. I was really dissapointed with the performance of my 338 vs my 35 Whelen, with equal barrel lengths.

Long live the Swift!!

jERRY

I have a friend with an old M-70 .220 Swift and he uses it for deer as well as coyotes. Ya couldn't get that gun from him for any amount of money. In his opinion it's the best deer rifle of all time and he shoots it like it really is.

We all see things differently and I know the Swift crowd loves their baby..... You guys have a ball with them.....I'm sticking with my 22-250 and my .223.

Jerry, Re: .338-06 Vs the .35 Whelen....someone should start a new thread on this subject.

vapodog:

Your right, someone like YOU perhaps should start the thread as you suggest 338-06 vs 35 Whelen. I would ask that 2 requirements in comparision be required, barrel lengths, and bullet weights be listed for any load comparison. It seems most of the 338-06 boys always talk about their velocities, but they always fail to tell us they are using 28-30 barrels to get it.

Jerry

you asked for it..... here it is
Are you wearing both guns?

I like the 220 but when it is all said and done just give me a 223 and call it a day. If I want something more than a 223 then I want a bigger caliber anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
I like the 220 but when it is all said and done just give me a 223 and call it a day. If I want something more than a 223 then I want a bigger caliber anyway.

Well put friend.

Get the Swift faster and more accurate atleast from all of my experences. Also seems to be much easier to find a load it likes. As for feeding issues, you need to pay a little more attention when loading the magazine but thats about it.

I really hesitate to jump into these caliber arguments but since this isn't 'one better than the other', I have to speak up and defend the Swift. A swift was my first rifle and still my favorite. The two I have experience with have both been phenomenal shooters in terms of their accuracy. I didn't work up the loads for the first but the second likes just about any load to get minute of angle and has a few that are easy under a half. The velocity that goes along with it though is what really works for me. 55 grain Ballistic Tips are very flat. As far as feeding, mine is a single shot so it is no issue. My only gripe is the case stretch but that will be fixed when I shoot this tube out and rebarrel with an AI Swift. I just hope it shoots as well or better.

Get a Swift and never look back.....all you'll see there are .22-250's

I've been loading and shooting a Swift in a Mark I 77V for about 15 years. I can't say I have much experience reloading the round because the first 2 loads I tried are both 1/2-5/8 MOA for 5 shots and often way less for 3. I burn 3031 behind a 50 gr BT for critters and a 52 gr HPBT Match for paper. Velocity on the BT's runs a consistent 4180 fps from a 26" tube. It feeds, it shoots, it hits, and I've had no issues with case life at all. Used to shoot side by side with a buddy and his 26" 70V in .22-250. He eventually develped quite a bad case of "Swift envy". Granted, it was only a two rifle comparison. But I routinely shot 300 fps faster and over an inch tighter at 500 M.

I spend a lot of time shooting prairie dogs .The 220 Swift and 22-250 are fine rounds for limited long range shooting.The ones I have will group around 3/4 inch groups at 100 Yds. One should let the barrels cool between shots on both of them. The splatter factor is the same when shooting 50 gr. bullets at p dogs. I use rifles that burn less powder for shots under 300 Yds like the new 204 Ruger or the old 223 Rem .Last year I shot over 2000 prairie dogs ,around 1500 were shot under 150 Yds with a 17 HMR.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Jerry...
I agreed with every word you said...
right up to the 338.06 part....

I think that was a shot at my posts favoring the .338-06....ok...that's fine.....

I admit the Swift is a fine cartridge, but not for me. Put two guys out shooting prairie dogs...one with a swift and one with a .22-250 and all other things being equal you can't tell the difference.

Further try this one.....put two guys out shooting prairie dogs...one with a .22-250 and one with a .223 and again many folks will not be able to tell the difference.

The problem there Vapo is all things aren't equal if you have a Swift versus a 22-250.

I got nothing against a 22-250 but with a 223 and a Swift in the safe there's no point outside of just having another gun.

quote:

Originally posted by woodhick:
at last count own 5 Swifts.....been loading and shooting them for over 35 years.....have found 4064 and H414 to give consistent accuracy and top velocities....keep the cases trimmed and properly sized with loads that don't loosen primer pockets after a couple firings and the Swift will give top end performance...

no flies on the 22/250 either......

I bought a swift this spring ( was looking for a 22-250) but ended up with a VSSF in 220 swift instead. It is my first true centerfire varmint cartridge. My varmint hunting buddy also shoots a swift in a ruger.We both reload and use the exact same components. Win cases win primers 50 grain v max and 4064. Both of our loads are close to listed max with no pressure signs from either rifle.I get .5 average 100 yard groups and Kev averages .3 I am thinking about trying 3031 just to see what it does. So far I am very happy with the results I have gotten on ground hogs. I know I am the weak link for group sizes hopefully I will be able to improve my skills and shrink up those groups even more.

Hipster..........

Wanna try 3031?? Here's what I found works well in my 77V:

Win. case
Win. primer
38.0 gr. IMR-3031
Hornady 52 gr. HPBTM (4080 fps & under 1/2 MOA)
or
Nosler 50 gr. BT (4180 fps & a little over 1/2 MOA)

This is a max. load from Lyman but shows no excessive pressure signs (IN MY GUN). Maybe back off to 36.0 gr. and work up for your own safety.

I've actually gotten under .2" for 3 shots with the Hornady Matches, but they ain't real predictable on critters.

quote:

Originally posted by Strut10:
Hipster..........

Wanna try 3031?? Here's what I found works well in my 77V:

Win. case
Win. primer
38.0 gr. IMR-3031
Hornady 52 gr. HPBTM (4080 fps & under 1/2 MOA)
or
Nosler 50 gr. BT (4180 fps & a little over 1/2 MOA)

This is a max. load from Lyman but shows no excessive pressure signs (IN MY GUN). Maybe back off to 36.0 gr. and work up for your own safety.

I've actually gotten under .2" for 3 shots with the Hornady Matches, but they ain't real predictable on critters.

Now thats info I can use I figure I will try the 50 v max's first as I bought 500 of em recently plus I had about 150 or so on hand. I figure 3031 would give me about 1000-1500 psi less than a 4064 load of comparable velocity. I have as of yet to shoot 4064 on a really hot day and I figure that the load I am currently running might just go over the top pressure wise. I had one v max bullet that thought it was regular bullet for some reason this spring. I shot a ground hog through the ribs at about 300 yards. Normally there is a nice grenade effect on the body at that range.But that bullet punched a hole through through the hog taking most of the lungs with it when it exited it was an instant kill but the performance of that one bullet did suprise me quite a bit.

Thanks for the info I will hopefully put it to good use at the range soon enough. I was thinking 35-35.5 to start and then going from there.

FWIW........The Nosler BT's have never, ever failed to put a gruesome hole out the back side of a hog.

The Hornady Matches are solid enough that I've killed deer with them out of a .221 Fireball XP-100.........good penetration.

My velocity figures are from a 26" tube.

Landrum: I own 7 Rifles in caliber 220 Swift right now. I actively shoot 5 of them.
The 220 Swift is an excellent Varmint caliber and it IS capable of very good accuracy!
One of my Swifts is a Remington 40XB-KS single shot model. It has shot several 5 shot groups at 200 yards under .800"!
I would NEVER be without a Swift Varminter - its as simple as that!
You can do a lot with the Swift cartridge, and I have!
I have harvested both Deer and Antelope as well as every concievable brand of Varmint from Ground Squirrels to Coyotes with my Swifts!
Yes the barrels heat rather quickly but I have learned to work around that drawback - easily!
More directly to your exact questions - I prefer the longer barrels on my Swifts - mine are all 26" - 27 1/4" long. I recommend them (the longer barrel Swifts) to you also.
I would not be surprised if you would be giving away 100" F.P.S. with the 24" barrel versus the 26" barrels.
Yes the Swift will eat brass at a slightly faster rate than a 22-250 but I have lived with that quite comfortably for going on 40 years now.
Lets compare, accuracy wise, two similar Rifles I have in calibers 220 Swift and 22-250 Remington!
They are both Remington 40X variants and they both have Leupold 6.5x20 variable scopes on them!
The last sight in verification five shot group I shot at 100 yards with the 22-250 measured .484"! The last sight in verification five shot group I shot at 100 yards with the 220 Swift measured .429"
In comparable Rifles, comparably equipped, over the decades I have found the accuracy of the 22-250 and the Swift to be just that - comparable!
I give the nod to the 22-250 on barrel life but I have had one of my Swifts (that I shoot regularly) since 1976!
Maybe that point is moot.
I would take a wild assed guess and render that the careful shooter would get 4,000 to 5,000 rounds out of a 22-250 before accuracy really started suffering and from the Swift 3,500 rounds maybe 4,000 if you shoot moderate loads like I do.
Longer barrels give free velocity (flatter trajectories) when comparing similar loadings. I often go with the 27" barrels so I can get top velocities with less powder. Less powder means less (slower) throat erosion yet still having the ability to achieve best velocities.
Yes, I would find one with a 26" barrel unless you are getting a sweet deal on the 24" barrel rig!
Long live the 220 Swift!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

you guys are all argueing a moot point, since the 204 came out it has essientially made the swift obselete, the 204 has better trajectory, better winddrift #'s hits hard enough and is easier on barrels

Cummins cowboy: I was an early and vocal proponent of the 204 Ruger cartridge and sang its praises while many were besmirching it as a fad and a gimmick so gun companies could sell more Rifles and more ammo and on and on!
I am even more impressed today with it (the 204) than when I killed my first Varmints with it more than a year ago.
I have convinced many of my friends to buy and try them - BUT - I do not think the 204 will kill off or make the 220 Swift obsolete! Not by a long shot (so to speak).
And, I do not disagree with your description of the 204 vs. the Swift either. Again, here comes another big - BUT - the Swift will be around for the rest of my lifetime (I am guessing another 10 to 20 years - as I am 58 now).
I for one will not let the Swift die off!
And I am sure many, many other Varminters and Rifle "nuts" won't let the Swift be swept under the rug even by "more deserving" calibers - and yes the 204 is perhaps one of them!
But no, don't count the Swift out of it as yet!
That has happened a couple of previous times in the last 70 years or so - and guess what, I can walk down to my local small pawn/sport store and buy a Swift Rifle tomorrow. And, the store has brass on their peg board wall in bags of 20 for sale as well.
Long live the 220 Swift
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I am not saying the swift will not be around anymore, I am just saying that in a varminting situation the 204 is a better choice. and outperforms the swift in every aspect except energy on target. energy is mainly important for big game animals not varmints. So unless you wanna hit something harder, hold over more, and adjust more for the wind, you will pick the 220 over the 204

Cummins cowboy: I will grant another benefit of the 204 Ruger over the 220 Swift in the Varmint arena anyway!
The "recoil" of even my heavy Swifts (and ALL of them are heavy!) will often knock the sight picture of the Varmint out of my "view", at the shot! In other words it is most often the case with my Swifts and my 55 grain bullets and the resulting recoil that I will have trouble spotting my own shots!
This is no problem with my heavy 204's (and all mine are heavy!). The very mild recoil is easily dealt with and I am most often able to spot my own shots.
I posted a while back on this forum somewhere, that I consider the 204 Ruger cartridge to now be among the top 5 all around Varmint cartridges of all time!
That is saying something!
I stand by that contention!
The 220 Swift in my opinion is one of the top ten all around Varmint cartridges of all time. And I think it will maintain that status for some time to come.
I stand by that contetion
Long live the 220 Swift!
Long live the 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Originally posted by Strut10:
FWIW........The Nosler BT's have never, ever failed to put a gruesome hole out the back side of a hog.

The Hornady Matches are solid enough that I've killed deer with them out of a .221 Fireball XP-100.........good penetration.

My velocity figures are from a 26" tube.

Well I went shopping today and picked up a few things to roll a few up tommorow morning to go to the range. I got some 50 grn nosler "bad ass tips" some speer 50 grn tnt's 1000 WLR primers a nice big jug of H414 and something I have needed for some time a Chrony. I now have 3 different powders to compare for velocity and group size, 3031 4064 and H414 well so much for the barrel on the 700! Guess I better get one ordered but I can't think of a more fun way to screw a tube to spend a sunday afternoon. I might just have enough time to take a poke at some of the Ground Hogs that live in the fields close the private range I shoot at.


I will post the results on group sizes and muzzle speeds as soon as I can.