quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
JWP:

Your 730 yard target demonstrates one thing I see over and over: you can't have enough accuracy. That group obviously drifted to the left due to the wind, but the group is so tight that all bullets hit that gong. If your group would have been double in size, you would have missed at least one of those shots. Hard to see how many shots you fired.

But tell me, do you think you can hit that 1000 yard gong with the first shot 90 percent of the time? Not in calm conditions, but when the wind is blowing?

That all depends on the wind, some wind conditons I would never take a shot in when hunting. I do not believe in taking a risky shot that I am unprepaired for or that is to difficult or risky. Just not my style.

The 730 yard group that you refered to was shot in very high varing wind conditions. I would not have fired in that type of wind in a hunting situation in those conditions and that group would never have been that good with any bullet with a`lower BC than the .768 of the 300 SMK which is what I was using to shoot that group. I have no problem practicing in adverse conditions, although I would not take a shot in those type conditions in the hunting field

That would be a dead elk, deer, even groundhog.

Here is three shots at 550 yards:


Here is an 1100 yard group I shot with some wind-
nevermind, photobucket won't load. Will upload later.

Was down at Sportsman's Warehouse yesterday..and someone was picking up his new Elk Rifle..

a 338 Edge on a Remington Action, with a Carbon Fibre barrel, a high power Nightforce mounted on top...all the bells and whistles..

H S Precision Stock..Ballistics Program..Custom Redding Dies..

All ready to go..

for the amazingly 'low' price of $6100.00!!!!

That's a stupidly high price even for that type of rifle.

Tyler:

Is that sheep target your own or on a range?

You've got @$4000 tied up in that Savage thing. I'd hate to tell another man he was stupid cause he spent money on a rifle.

Some good replies here, and obviously from guys who have walked the walk. AZWriter I particularly appreciate your shared experiences here, and couldn't agree more that things really get difficult fast past 500 yards. DBCooper, no insult intended friend, but out here in the open west a lot of us that shoot regularly look at a 300 yarder as a chip shot. Thats still within my point blank range.

There is about $1500 in my "Savage thing"...my 338 is built on a Lawton action, and was admittedly more than the Savage, but everything else is top of the line in my opinion.

quote:

DBCooper, no insult intended friend, but out here in the open west a lot of us that shoot regularly look at a 300 yarder as a chip shot. Thats still within my point blank range.

No insult taken. How "open" is "open"? How far would you care to shoot? Been there, done that. Been taking those shots for 45+ years.

I've shot nearly everything from a BB gun to a 40MM Bofors at one time or another. Competed on a Navy rifle team for 2 years. I hold a Navy Rifle Expert Marksman badge. They don't give them out like the Army and Marines do. The qualifications are much more strict.

quote:

“Long range hunters take more pride in the distance of the shot than the animal they are shooting.”

Again, to my point. Where I live we respect the game, we take pride in the hunt, not the kill. Mainly because we actually hunt. We don't target practice on game.









If you would prefer, we can drop you off here. It's only a short 5 or 6 mile hike (maybe 10 or 12, hard to say for sure depending on the terrain) to the next road, if you don't break a leg, or fall in a hole. If you don't show up by dark, then we can come back the following day, to see if you survived. We also have excellent Search and Rescue teams.

This is how close I meant, when I said we get as close as we can. It does mean that you have to be a good hunter to even see a Deer, Bear, Elk or Cougar. No Wind Stations, Range Finders, Beanie-Copters. It requires "hunting" skill...,and a damned good sense of direction.

BTW, this is the beginner's route, it can and does get much worse. And no horses to do the work for us.

Hey, I've been there. . . . . .!

The wooded areas in the background are "NO HUNTING" ground. It is difficult to get close to the little open hill back in the corner, the center of which is about 750 yards away.

Dang, DB, I remember you Navy boys qualifying on ship by shooting in the water -- hard target to miss!

As a former Marine, in all fairness, we got a hell-of-a-lot more trigger time......

Nice photos, DB!

quote:

Again, to my point. Where I live we respect the game, we take pride in the hunt, not the kill. Mainly because we actually hunt. We don't target practice on game.

Respect?? I respect my parents, my friends, etc and I don't shoot what I respect

Long range hunters do not "target practice on game animals", we do the practicing long before the hunt

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Dang, DB, I remember you Navy boys qualifying on ship by shooting in the water -- hard target to miss!

As a former Marine, in all fairness, we got a hell-of-a-lot more trigger time......

Yup! That's what we wanted you to think. It worked very well... Match, after match, after match.

quote:

Originally posted by D B Cooper:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Dang, DB, I remember you Navy boys qualifying on ship by shooting in the water -- hard target to miss!

As a former Marine, in all fairness, we got a hell-of-a-lot more trigger time......

Yup! That's what we wanted you to think. It worked very well... Match, after match, after match.

DB Cooper, does the D stand for Delusional? Keep dreamin' -- dreams are the foundation of hope. You didn't vote Obama, by chance, did you? Hope? Change? Yes we can? Hell, I remember squids missing the water!

quote:

DB Cooper, does the D stand for Delusional? Keep dreamin' -- dreams are the foundation of hope. You didn't vote Obama, by chance, did you? Hope? Change? Yes we can? Hell, I remember squids missing the water!

Ah, that explains it...

If that's all you've got?

That's pathetic...

quote:

Originally posted by D B Cooper:
If that's all you've got?

That's pathetic...

Patheic??? Have you read your responces in this thread? Nothing but BS start to finish..

quote:

Originally posted by D B Cooper:
If that's all you've got?

That's pathetic...

Dang, DB, I hope (there's that word again! ) that pathetic wasn't directed at me........it would really hurt my feelings....... Glad you have a sense of humor!

OK kids. . . . that's it!
Don't make me come down there!

This IS a fun thread.

OK, here's the deal. That's actually a pic of me sitting, looking out over the clearcut.
D B took it while I was daydreaming, and looking for an Elk.
Where D B and I hunt, it may be different then where a lot of other folks hunt. Our land is rugged as hell, with large expanses, deep canyons, and parts can be without any vegetation to blo around to measure wind speed, in between lot's of big ass trees, and dense forests.
Now O'l D B is one hell of a shot; both close AND at some pretty long ranges. In fact I will put a bag of money on the table for anyone that can come close to equalling him with a handgun; especially a short barreled handgun. I have personaly witnessed him hitting 12" dia. rocks out to 300 yards with a frickin 1-1/2" snub nose revolver. I have done it with a 2-1/4" SP101 a few times, but D B does know how to shoot. We shoot every week, and have shot up to about 30,000 rnds a year! THAT"S WHAT WE DO!
He also has a deep respect for game, as you'all have seen. If you guys came out here in our conditions, you may have a different opinion when it comes to long range shootin (in our terrain).
The wind is impossible to read, as it can be blowing 13 different ways from where you are sitting to the game; with nothing to 'read' as you put it. Makes it pretty tough. Have talked to more then a few hunters hunting here from othere states that have made statements about how tough it is to shoot long range here.
I have taken small Blacktail in California where the grass is low, and the terrain is open out to about 700+ yards with no problem. But I'm here to say, it ain't the same here in the Oregon forests. Been there and done that.
So maybe we can agree about that difference anyway.
D B is a great guy, and one hell of a shot. But different types of terrain creates different circumstances.
Ok guys, shake hands be nice. . . . .

quote:

But I'm here to say, it ain't the same here in the Oregon forests. Been there and done that.
So maybe we can agree about that difference anyway

I stated very clearly ealier in this thread that conditions were the basis of which the decision to shoot or not shoot, not particularly simply distance. You your self took a deer at 700 and I think thatis great. Hell I held my fire at a nice 6X6 bull Elk inside 100 yards, because I was breathing so hard I could not keep him in the scope, much less the reticle in the proper location

Nothing wrong with long range hunters IMHO

I agree. So. . . . . you guys gunna get along, or do I have to come down there. . . . .?

I think if we lived each others conditions, we would all agree with the others decisions to shoot, or not to shoot.

Might be on the same page and just not know it. . . . . . .

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:In fact I will put a bag of money on the table for anyone that can come close to equalling him with a handgun; especially a short barreled handgun.

I'll take you up on that offer -- I've hunted with handguns exclusively over the last few years........

I think we all have a hell-of-a-lot more in common than not......

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:In fact I will put a bag of money on the table for anyone that can come close to equalling him with a handgun; especially a short barreled handgun.

I'll take you up on that offer -- I've hunted with handguns exclusively over the last few years........

I think we all have a hell-of-a-lot more in common than not......

Ya, think so to.
This damn internet think has a tendency to bring out some strange stuff in people.

OK, Whitworth, your on.
In all honesty, my best group at 220 yards (200 meters) has been about 3" for 3 shots on steel targets with a Contender in .30-30. And have shot all 5 shots from my old .454 in about 5" at 225 yards. All with open sights.
Yourself. . . . . ?

It's a lot easier then most think, that do not shoot handguns all that much.
Have shot with a few guys in Calif. however that put me to shame.
We do shoot handguns at 300+ yard rocks a lot for effect. Would limit them on game out to about 125 for best results for myself however.
Although my old Contender has taken lot's of Jack rabbits at over 250 yards fairly often.
They don't seem to use those here in Oregon much though. Not sure why.
100 yard squirrels are on the menu with my Kimber .45 acp, and with the Ruger GP100, add another 50-75 yards.
But I hunt big game most exclusively these days with a rifle.
Cheers.

DWright,

Just curious is that 3" 3 shot group at 200 meters offhand or using a rest?

Contender's not really a "handgun" in my humble opinion -- more of a ristol.......revolvers off-hand.......

Why don't y'all come out this way and we'll go kill some southern hogs.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
DWright,

Just curious is that 3" 3 shot group at 200 meters offhand or using a rest?

That's using my knees as a rest of course. Man, if I could do that standing, I'd be pretty damn good! Hell, I'd like to see that. . . . . . .

Whitworth, ya, Contenders are another thing for sure. But can do OK with a good accurate revolver, as I said. I'm sure that if you have been handgun hunting for awhile, that you are right in there as well.
Personally I think shooting rifles accurately is pretty easy with a little practice and some educated coaching, but handguns are another thing. Some have natural ability from the start and can become real good, real fast. Others take awhile and lot's of practice. And then there's those that never will.
Then of course as ol' Elmer used to say; to shoot a handgun well, one must burn powder by the keg; not the pound!
Cheers guys!

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Contender's not really a "handgun" in my humble opinion -- more of a ristol.......revolvers off-hand.......

Why don't y'all come out this way and we'll go kill some southern hogs.

Did I hear hogs. . . .?!!!!
That's what I'm talkin bout.
Hogs are too much fun. I used to hunt them a lot in Calif. Parkfield was the hot spot years ago. Hunted them with handgun, rifles, shotguns, dogs and a knife, and believe it or not: an old suicide door lincoln, with 2' spikes bolted to the front custom made bumper, at high speed at night when the acorns were on the dirt roads!
One night we had to jack the car up to pull hogs from under it. Had hogs in the back seat, and truck on the trip home. Yup, love hog huntin!
Hmmm, may take you up on that.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Was down at Sportsman's Warehouse yesterday..and someone was picking up his new Elk Rifle..

a 338 Edge on a Remington Action, with a Carbon Fibre barrel, a high power Nightforce mounted on top...all the bells and whistles..

H S Precision Stock..Ballistics Program..Custom Redding Dies..

All ready to go..

for the amazingly 'low' price of $6100.00!!!!

Yikes.

Build a Howa 338 Win. Mag for $610.00

The Internet is really funding the tactical market. A person can spend a few hours researching everything and get the latest and expensive technology. That is one addiction I am glad I do not have.

With the Internet, a person can also use the same resources and build an affordable, practical hunting rifle that will shoot great and last a lifetime if taken care of.

Well, we all found common ground. Much better. It sounds like a bunch of very accomplished riflemen here after all. My best group ever was 5 shots into 2.75" at 650 yards with my .22-250. I shot 3 mornings in a row before wind conditions, meaning absolute calm, were favorable for those small and relatively low BC bullets. That from a Cooper rifle that normally shoots in the .3s at 100 yds from the bench. I have been doing load development on another Cooper this week, this one a .270. It has shot a number of groups in the .4 - .55 range over the past 3 days, so I am hopeful it will make a good 6-700 yard gun for marmots this summer. Best group was fired today @ .178. All fired @ 100 yds from the bench.

Agree'd! But the original question was ;what cartridge for long range Elk. That would be something big and fast to reach out and hit hard. A better question may be 'which bullet'.

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:
Agree'd! But the original question was ;what cartridge for long range Elk. That would be something big and fast to reach out and hit hard. A better question may be 'which bullet'.

The original post was as follows,

quote:

By long, I mean 4-500 yards. The area I hunt is heavily timbered with small clear cuts and open patches. By getting high, I can glass these small patches and can always find elk in these small openings. Last year, a friend cleanly killed one (lasered 417) with a 7 Rem Mag with a 160 Partition. Bull was hit well behind the shoulder but ran off...only to be taken by another hunter (the area is popular). This guy wasn't about to let my friend have the elk for he made the "finishing" shot (in the ham). Whatever. Thinking about stepping up to a 338 RUM or 340 Weatherby for this type of hunting. I know, I know...get closer...and sometimes we can still hunting. The best opportunities are watching these open patches, setup on a very solid rest.

Acctualy the OP is asking about "medium range" This of course could be acomplished readily with a 30-06 and I agree completly that bullet choice is more important thant which caliber for such work

Awww man, just 400 or so yards? Hell, I thought we were talking about long range. Your right jpk475. . . . . Sheeeesh! Guess I never read the 400 yard thing, since the title was about long range. . . . . . in that case I would say about anything from a well sighted in .30-30 Win. on up. Wow. . . now I feel like an idiot for sure. Sorry if I offended anyone here as, once again, I did think the subject was 'long range'.

STUPID, STUPID, STUPID. . . . . .