The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Long Range Elk CartridgeGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Long Range Elk Cartridge | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
I have the first of the big 338s, Elmer Keith's 338-378 KT. It is chambered in a Champlin bolt gun..several were made appropriately called the Keith Grade. Beautiful gun...octagonal barrel, full-length solid top barrel rib, gorgeous wood, slight quarter and front sight ribs...just a beauty. But it remains unfired...no shale slides up in the San Juan Wilderness with this one! | |||
|
| One of Us |
I think your 7mm is prety darn good for the purpose. Mosly beacuse you can shoot it enough to gain the experence needed. I sure hope you have a spotter if you shoot at that range. It would be hard to tell a miss from a hit somtimes if not. You are bound to loose sight of the animal under recoil. And by the time you pick him up again (if you do)he may have gone inbto cover. I see the results of this on deer alot when elk hunting. I often see deer limping around in the woods with a broken for leg when elk hunting. No way to tell for sure, but I bet its often som long range hunter that thinks he missed. ...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
|
| One of Us |
I guess my question is why? Always seems every elk hunter wants a long range power house, instead of just getting closer ( being a better hunter) of else spend time learning to shoot his rifle at longer ranges with an appropriate bullet... as pointed out by others.. shooting varmints will certainly improve one's ability to learn to shoot long range.. I just never followed the appeal of getting an elk at 800 yds.. nor have I understood the appeal of bragging about hitting a prairie dog at 500-600 yds... how many times did someone miss to accomplish that hit? and where did those bullets end up when they missed their mark? this isn't knocking it.. it is just saying I don't follow nor understand the appeal of it all.. | |||
|
| One of Us |
My long-range Elk hunting rifle is a .35 Whelen. It will do very well out to the distance that I will shoot at a game animal. Anybody who wants to be a sniper, not a hunter, won't be going hunting with me. | |||
|
one of us |
I don't care to take shots at those distances, but to answer your question I would take the 340 or 300 Wby or 375 H&H with 260 ABs. **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
|
One of Us |
I hunt Elk like the OP by spotting them across canyons and gullies glassing from the sunny slopes into the dark timber. Most of the time it is impossible to get closer, without trying to sneak into the timber with them (a very low percentage type of hunting). It is important to shoot something with enough ooomph to do a good job when it gets there. The last Elk I shot was at 253 yards and I was using a 300 win mag with a 180 gr TSX at 3100 fps. It did well but the first shot through the boilerworks was not enough to anchor him in place and it took a second shot through the front shoulders to put him down. I have had other possible shots at 400+ yards that I did not take. Now my dedicated Elk gun is a 26" barreled 338RUM with a Kahles MultiZero shooting a 225 gr TTSX at 3100 fps that is capable of exceptional accuracy  I practice to 400 yards and that is my limit so far. I agree that any caliber from 300 win mag up is adequate and that some like the heavy 33's are optimum and something like a 375 Ruger or H & H would carry the oomph you need. Also anything in between those 2. IMO a heavy 30 would not have the same anchoring ability. But most of the time you have to carry that rifle and anything larger than a 300 win mag can not be practiced with enough without a muzzle brake or a heavy rifle. I can shoot a 300 win mag in an 8 pound rifle all day and that is as important as size of caliber. A Barnes TSX out of a 300 win mag through the front shoulders can anchor an Elk fast and does very little meat damage  So as you can see I am conflicted. That 10 pound 338RUM was heavy this year carrying it in the mountains and I love to hunt with my 300 win mag. I guess it depends upon how much you have to carry your rifle. If you ride an ATV to your shooting overlooks then carry a big boy. If you have to walk a mile or more then get a 300 win mag without a brake shooting a 180 gr TSX or a 200 gr Accubond and practice a lot. ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
|
One of Us |
I have seen several elk taken at 600 - 700+yds off the same mountainside: two with a .300WSM, one with a .300RUM & one with a .338 RUM. I couldn't make it this year but I believe two more fell to .338RUM this season too. All have been one hit drops. Confidence, accuracy & shot placement come a lot higher up the list than caliber, so long as it carries sufficient energy at the maximum range envisioned. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I'm with Seafire. There isn't any doubt that there is the mechanical means to kill big game at impressive distances. Exactly what are you proving? With todays rifles and scopes and support gadgets, not very much, if you think about it. Why not get out of the truck and try stalking the animal. See how close you can get to the animal before shooting. See what your personal abilities are.  Aim for the exit hole | |||
|
One of Us |
The same drival I used to hear about handgun hunting. A better question is, "why don't you learn to shoot at distance instead of tromping around the mountain side scaring the game off for other hunters"? _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
| new member |
I have been messing with my 7mm rum for shots at these distances for a few years now. Have not been able to try it on game yet.. Still enjoying the hell out of the homework though. I think it will be a good choice for long range elk. I set up for deer on a gas line clear cut this year just to try it out. Passed up some closer shots looking to test the 300 plus range. Figures all the deer came in bow range... Next time I guess.. 94 grains of retumbo and 160 grain barnes x "To all those who fought and died SEMPER FI" | |||
|
| One of Us |
Not drivel at all. I can shoot at distance. And I do so. At steel sheep, gongs, Pdogs, balloons, and even targets. My marksmanship isn't at question; it's your skills as a hunter that are suspect.  Aim for the exit hole | |||
|
| One of Us |
It is shot placement at any distance. The only way to be sure with any cartidge at any distance of a strait drop to a hot pot is a spine or head shot. 270win to 378roy, lots of practice, luck with the wind, a steady animal, and a relaxed shooter. A true 5-600 yard marksman has a great deal more time and effort into his kill than a spot and stalker (even if you stalk all week). That is where the reward comes in. Who said shooters were out to "impress" anyone except themselves anyway? How bout you do it your way I'll do it mine. And just a little secret. Most of those long crippling shots are made by those real hunters that get frustrated by lack of a close encounter and try the long shot without the practice, or the average Joe that dusts off the rifle for 2 weeks a year has no idea how far he is shooting, but he be able to hit cause he bought the gold box intead of the green box this year. Personally I like the 270 and 300 Weatherbys. | |||
|
Moderator |
As a handgun hunter, accustomed to getting up-close and personal with his intended game, there is no need to question jwp's stalking and hunting skills -- I can assure you. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| One of Us |
This is precisely where the .323-.338 calibers shine provided the recoil doesn't hammer. There is a fine line between adequate frontal area vs. recoil at long range. | |||
|
One of Us |
 Thats funny ever heard of practice? and before you ask yes I do have a 338 ultra and yes I do shoot that Mo Fo off the bench and yes it does kick hard and it is a very accurate cartridge once you get used to shooting it. No it does not have a brake and I have not found a need for one. 225 accubonds over H-1000 sings a pretty seet song.Alas I got it too late to use it this past season and have not worked up a 250 grain load yet. So a 8-1/2 to 9 pound rifle can't be used to shoot long range? Perhaps a Chopped up Stevens with a stock full of spray foam insulation and dillegent dremmel work would be more resonable for such tasks? | |||
|
| one of us |
Recoil is a funny thing – It’s like asking what is too hot. One guy will say 75 degrees and the next will say 105 degrees. It’s not a manly-man thing either. It’s just a thing. Some is conditioning and some is genetics. Some of it is also stock style and fit… I’ve shot .338s that rattle my fillings and others that are as pleasant as grandpa’s .30-06. I’m not particularly recoil sensitive. To me shooting my 8 mag is about the same as shooting my son’s .308. I can shoot 50 bench rounds from the 8 mag as easily as a .308. I think a .375 is downright pleasant to shoot… but my .416 is very unpleasant. So my line is drawn somewhere between the two. All of that to say – there are no absolutes regarding recoil but there are absolutes regarding ballistics. A .30-06 is not a ling range elk cartridge. It doesn’t have the trajectory or the energy. We can debate paper or plastic all day (e.g. stalkers vs shooters) but do us all a favor – if you are going to make long range shots, study the ballistic charts and use enough gun. Make the first one count! | |||
|
One of Us |
Uhh, must people haven't. Most don't. With enough practice an "inadequate" long range cartridge like the '06 (per previous post) will kill elk reliably at long ranges. With enough practice and ultra-shitkicker whatever magnum can be shot accurately and will kill elk reliably at long ranges. Something in between, say 7mm to 300 wm, bridges the gap between shootability and killing power. So pick you poison but don't chince on the practice. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the 270 won't do it the .338 will, if the 338 won't I can't afford the hunt! | |||
|
One of Us |
I would think that considering the caliber of guy who we have here on AR, that we generally practice more than most, and know a bit more about and how to use our equipment (hopefully at least). I don't want to get into the ethics of long range shooting of game, but I am fairly curious how some see that a relationship exists between range and recoil? Does a .338 or whatever kick more if the target is 500 yds vs 50 yds? If you're scared of your gun's recoil, or better yet, if recoil even enters your mind while you are hunting, something is bad wrong and you shouldn't be hunting at all, at any range with said gun. Likewise, if you've never actually practiced a 617 or 456 or 285 yd shot, you have no business sending a hail Mary pass at a live animal.  | |||
|
| One of Us |
An 8.5 pound 338 RUM without a brake is not going to be used long term. It will be your 2009 novelty. Might even shoot an elk with it next year. Then you will sell it or it will sit in your safe.
Sold my 7mm Stevens. Not enough frontal area. The Stevens would print near clover leafs consistently and it took a whitetail and mule deer each over 200 yards last year. Had a moose or elk stepped out under 400 yards, they would be in my freezer as well. I have a 600 yard range on the farm. It is 100 steps from my front door. I can shoot any time, any weather, any wind, any season. If its daylight, I can make noise. I would have no problem going up against you with a 7mm Mag or a 300 Mag. To answer your question: Yes, a Stevens in 300 Win. Mag. would be a perfect long range elk gun with the proper glass and a Timney trigger. Of course this would mean $400.00 spent on the rifle and $6-700 spent on the scope. The rifle costing about the same amount of money you are going to lose when you sell your 338 RUM next year.  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Yes, especially long range where magnum induced flinching is greatly magnified and shows up. The trigger is usually pulled and the gun rarely goes off surprising the shooter as it should. Many would be better off getting a 30-06 or 300 Mag. shooting a 168 gr. or 180 gr. at max load and spend a good $700.00 on glass. Then shooting LOTS. Imagine shooting a .22 lr with a perfect 2 pound trigger. Shoot a 30-06 enough with perfect trigger squeeze and an 8.5 pound rifle can feel as relaxed and comfortable. When it comes time to make a 400 yard shot in the field, the trigger is squeezed exactly the same way and the bullet hits where the cross-hairs were aiming. Lethal One shot sniper shooting is what kills animals at long range. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Shooting 400-500 yards at an animal as big as an elk calls for a magnum. 7mm through .338 will do the trick. All advice given here on the .300 WM, .300 Wby, .300 RUM, .338 WM, .338 RUM or .340 Wby is darn good advice. It goes without saying you need proper bullets. Personally I would opt for the .338s. But it's all good. | |||
|
one of us |
BY THE WAY It is for sale! see classifieds!  | |||
|
| One of Us |
POP, That is a good looking & good shooting rifle. Hope you sell it soon.... then I don't have to buy you a beer......BUT you still need to cook dinner  PS.....Nice shooting DRSS & Bolt Action Trash | |||
|
| one of us |
You're on! Then we will have a Greek dinner. I will cook! [/QUOTE]Is the Little Bear Inn still in business there? I had a pal in Cheyenne...now retired and moved to Florence, CO. I used to visit, hunt antelope, dig rocks, and find good folks. He took me to the Little Bear Inn....and I loved their steaks and the characters I met. I envy your living in Cheyenne.....it's so close to wonderful country. Alex Diner in Gainesville, FL | |||
|
| one of us |
+10000000 | |||
|
| one of us |
I have seen elk go a ways after being hit with a lot of different cartridges. Whatever you choose make sure it has the velocity at the range you are going to shoot to expand the bullet. A lot of bullets don't expand well or at all at 500 yards. Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
|
| One of Us |
End of thread ; Mine is a bolt Rem 700 LH with a Lija barrel and for X Mas I purchased a new leupold VX 3 in 6.5-20X56 . Now I need a Decent Spotting scope to see at the ranges this sucker can accurately hit . Just when you think you spent a fortune on the Rifle , Ha the accessories are killing me . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQO6a3Yg4TQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...yklI&feature=related If your an Old Fashion enthusiast who prefers Iron sights re loading and practicing will be very necessary . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...jdTM&feature=related | |||
|
One of Us |
Dave impressed me but the 2 other videos didn’t. I think the 338 Lapua has the same problems all cartridges have, the shooter’s poor judgment or marksmanship . The Lapua is not a laser weapon, it’s just another cartridge and It has it’s limitations. | |||
|
| One of Us |
People also have their limitations with it. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I hunt maral and ibex in central Asia , sometimes i shoot to 400 yards ! 340WM-250grs Game King-Fed.215-83grs R22-Heavy barrel 26" lengh- Twist rate 10"- Mauser standart action on a custom rifle. | |||
|
| One of Us |
The 338 Lapua is a very good cartridge, but not in a hunting rifle . I use the 340WM and the 338 Lapua, but have the impressive ballistic ( and the accuracy ! ) of the last only with a sniper rifle ( heavy barrel of 29" lengh ) ! The 340WM hold in a hunting rifle what it promise ! | |||
|
| One of Us |
_____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
You would have the same result with a 340WM ! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Why Would I want a 340 when I can have a 338 Lapua? More case capacity in the Lapua and it fits in the same lenght action. No silly Venutri sholuder and useless belt on the Lapua. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
I like the 338 Lapua too ! But more case capacity = more powder = need of a longer barrel, 29" or more (!) , and a magnum action ! In a suitable hunting rifle you have the power of a 340WM, not more ! The accuracy of the 338 Lapua in a hunting rifle could be the same or may be better, no question ! | |||
|
| One of Us |
338 Lapua works just fine in 24 & 26 inch barrel. More powder means more velocity, I've neve seen a 29" inch barreled 300 Win out run a 26" inch barrel 300 Rum. I've tried, I have a 29 inch barreled 300 Win _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
One of Us |
If I were going to buy a new rifle just for this purpose (long-range elk)...I would buy a .338 Lapua and nothing else. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
| one of us |
Interesting thread, and pretty predictable. Here's my resume; started guiding colorado elk hunters in 1978, licensed outfitter for 9 years, and a few elk have fallen to my own gun. Have shot, and seen elk shot, with everything from a .243 to .358STA. My 30-06 killed more than 30 head at distances from 7 paces to out around the 500 yard mark before moving on to several 7mm mags, a couple .300's, and finally a .358STA. The mags didn't kill elk any more efficiently than did the '06's and .270's as far as I could see. Most of my hunters could not shoot a magnum as accurately as they could a "standard" round, but for those that could, they still didn't seem to kill elk any deader, or much faster, but they did tear up a lot more meat. I sold my .358 this winter and am replacing it with a .270 because I like the particular Cooper rifle I bought, and the .270 will kill elk fine for me-out to 500 yards if need be. You don't NEED a magnum to kill elk, you need to shoot well. | |||
|
One of Us |
I have seen video of Elk taken at almost 900 yrds with a 7mm Mag. Im think that rifle was a Christianson(wrong spelling?). But none the less, the elk didnt drop but he only ran about 30 yrds before piling up and taking his dirt nap. Personally I would recommend a stronger bullet and trying to get into that should bone instead of all soft tissue. The right bullet should be able to break that should bone and still carry anough energy to get into the heart or lungs. Breaking that should will prevent running. I dont think I have ever seen an animal shot in the shoulder run more than 40-50 yrds. Of course when I say that I mean with a round capable of breaking the bone and still penetrating the vitals. | |||
|
| One of Us |
That's my opinion too ! I had to track 6 hours in the Altai mountains a wounded maral before i found it 10000 feets high ! I prefer the 250grs bullet caliber .338 ! There are many years ago, i used a 9,3x64 for the same purpose ! | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Long Range Elk Cartridge
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
