By long, I mean 4-500 yards. The area I hunt is heavily timbered with small clear cuts and open patches. By getting high, I can glass these small patches and can always find elk in these small openings. Last year, a friend cleanly killed one (lasered 417) with a 7 Rem Mag with a 160 Partition. Bull was hit well behind the shoulder but ran off...only to be taken by another hunter (the area is popular). This guy wasn't about to let my friend have the elk for he made the "finishing" shot (in the ham). Whatever. Thinking about stepping up to a 338 RUM or 340 Weatherby for this type of hunting. I know, I know...get closer...and sometimes we can still hunting. The best opportunities are watching these open patches, setup on a very solid rest.

Thoughts?

OK let's say you shoot 1000+ rounds of ammo at varmints etc. from 300 to 500 yards and are very good doping wind and hold over even with lazer rangefinder etc.

I solved your question for myself with a 338 RUM and it does work. It's not a cartridge for casual shooters or the faint of heart. By the same token it's not a shoulder breaker but you have to be mentally prepared.

Look at the down range energy at 400 and 500 yards, it is THE CARTRIDGE for this type of hunting. You CAN get 3000 fps+ with a 250 grain bullet by reloading. Be careful about what bullet you use...spend the money on a premium bullet yet one that will still perform at those distances.

I have made some very long shots with this cartridge on animals from coyote to elk and I have only had to shoot one animal twice and that was an elk. Both shots were good shots and very good killers I just don't take chances. I also don't take shots at those ranges unless, I HAVE ALL THE ODDS STACKED IN MY FAVOR AND KNOW I WILL MAKE THE SHOT.

Yes, I do pass many opportunities and when I say I know I will make the shot I do know. My wife and I shoot well over 2500 rounds a year from 22 rimfire to 505 Gibbs with most in varmint rounds and from 200 to 500+ yards. When you get to the point that you are comfortable and competent shooting a soda can sized target an elk will be like shooting at a truck...but you don't shoot at the animal you still shoot at that hand sized target on the animal. The more you concentrate on a specific point on the animal the more precise the result of your shot.

+ 1 on the 338rum or the 338 Edge if you reload.

358 Norma Mag.

338 ultra mag or 338/378 would be my choices.

I think the 8mm Remington fits what you are looking for.

Good advice, so far. My elk spots do not allow for such distances but if needed I do have a 30-378 Accumark. 200 Accubond at 3275 fps and .8" at 200 yards. Not too bad.

I would use my old reliable fiberglass stocked 340 Wea with a krieger barrel. You cannot go wrong with any of the big 338's.
If you can shoot it a 250 gr slug will deliver the mail at 400 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by POP:
Good advice, so far. My elk spots do not allow for such distances but if needed I do have a 30-378 Accumark. 200 Accubond at 3275 fps and .8" at 200 yards. Not too bad.

POP,

I gotta call BS... sub MOA groups with a 30-378 @ 200 yards?

Next time I'm in Cheyenne...I need to see you shoot and then buy you a beer

PS...I shoot my elk (mostly Wyoming elk) with a 375H&H

I shoot several rifles capable of the 500 yard distances at Elk. the list includes 7mm STW, .300 Winny, .340 Wby, .338 Lapua, .358 STA. My son, grandson and I have taken Elk will all of them. For me and mine to shoot farther than 350 yards it would have to be the perfect situation with one of the above with a good bullet such as North Fork, Nosler Partition, Barnes or Swift A-Frame. Good shooting.

The problem will not be solved by a stiffer, harder-to-shoot cartridge. That elk would have gone a ways even shot with a bigger cartridge. Unless you break a shoulder, you are subject to having the elk go a ways and be claimed by some less-than-ethical idiot. That 7 mag will break shoulders also. The extra recoil from some of the behemoth cartridges may nullify what you are trying to do. GET CLOSER AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. I have killed 15 elk with a 7 mag out to 277 yards and never had to do a follow-up.

Our family has used 300 Win Mag's at long distance to take elk at those distances with the aid of reloaded ammo. We've had luck with 180g loaded on the upper end of the velocity spectrum and the 300 Win Mag seems to fit the bill for the accuracy requirement as evidenced by the 1000 yard shooters.

Once you get beyond a true 400 yards the question is not so much which cartridge but can I hit stuff at that distance. A solid rest and quality glass is a must but the wind can still give you the run around. I know that practice will solve many of these concerns but who really want to shoot 150 rounds of hot 300 Win Mag on a spring afternoon?? It's not quite the same as my .223 pushing a 40g bullet where you can shoot 250 rounds.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
Once you get beyond a true 400 yards the question is not so much which cartridge but can I hit stuff at that distance.

True, but one more item is necessary ...energy.
The 338 family is king where long range shots are the rule, and a 250 grain bullet at 3000f/s possesses more energy than a 300 Win can muster. The various 338s can put down elk at any angle, whereas the 300 might require a broadside where range becomes excessive.

A 7remmag or 300winmag will work fine but the 340wby is a great LR elk rig if you can shoot it. The RUM would do the same thing cheaper. Mine is a 7mmDakota w/ 160grNPs @ 3200fps. Flat, hits hard, easy to shoot well. My 338x74K would also work well w/ 210grTSX @ 2950fps, both are Ruger #1s.

I have become quite fond of the .330 Dakota and I've also killed a a pile of elk with my .375H&H. The old H&H is a very capable 400+ yard elk rifle with the right load and bullet. The .330 Dakota is just under what a .340 Weatherby will do. I prefer a 225 Gr slippery bullet in the Dakota @ just about 3000 FPS.

I don't really think a 33+ is necessary. A fast 7 or standard/fast 30 is more then enough at those ranges with proper bullet selection. A 7stw, 7rum, or 300 wby would be my choice. Heck, a 300 win or wsm will deliver over 1500ftlbs to those ranges. Bigger does carry more energy, but bigger cost in every way....price, ammo, recoil, weight, scopes....

Personally, id go find a used 7rem mag with a 26" barrel if you can, and have it rechambered to 7stw! Cheaper option then any of the big 33's.

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
I don't really think a 33+ is necessary. A fast 7 or standard/fast 30 is more then enough at those ranges with proper bullet selection. A 7stw, 7rum, or 300 wby would be my choice. Heck, a 300 win or wsm will deliver over 1500ftlbs to those ranges. Bigger does carry more energy, but bigger cost in every way....price, ammo, recoil, weight, scopes....

Personally, id go find a used 7rem mag with a 26" barrel if you can, and have it rechambered to 7stw! Cheaper option then any of the big 33's.

Really, does anyone really care about the cost of ammo? I handload so 7mag or 340wby, not much diff to me in cost. I agree, the big 7mags, 7STW, 7RUM or 7mmDakota all pack a good 400-500yd whack, but nothing like a high speed 34 bore.

quote:

Bigger does carry more energy, but bigger cost in every way....price, ammo, recoil, weight, SCOPES....

Huh?!

In reference to AzGuy's BS call; I can't say I can shoot sub moa @ 200 yards but I can shoot sub 1.5" @ 200 yards with Nosler 200 grain BT. Three shots will take a 1" paster off the target. Clean barrel after two fouling shots and three shots in about 90 seconds will shoot right at 1 1/4" and that's outside spread not centers. If ya wanna shoot it contact me and you can come up this summer and shoot it for yourself. Factory Remington Sendero 338 RUM.

Regards,

I have the 338 RUM and it will shoot the 225 Accubond bullet at 3178 FPS. I have not shot this rifle for distance. I would think it would
be good for 600yds with my burris scope on it.
I guess I'll have to take it to this 600 yd range I belong to and try it out.

quote:

Originally posted by snomer:
By long, I mean 4-500 yards. The area I hunt is heavily timbered with small clear cuts and open patches. By getting high, I can glass these small patches and can always find elk in these small openings. Last year, a friend cleanly killed one (lasered 417) with a 7 Rem Mag with a 160 Partition. Bull was hit well behind the shoulder but ran off...only to be taken by another hunter (the area is popular). This guy wasn't about to let my friend have the elk for he made the "finishing" shot (in the ham). Whatever. Thinking about stepping up to a 338 RUM or 340 Weatherby for this type of hunting. I know, I know...get closer...and sometimes we can still hunting. The best opportunities are watching these open patches, setup on a very solid rest.

Thoughts?

338 Win Mag., 338-06, 8mm-06, 325 WSM, 300 WSM, 300 Win Mag. or 30-06.

.308 caliber frontal area minimum is my rule for elk.

RUM or the 340 have too much recoil to shoot long range. They are good for 200-250 yards max unless you want to build a boat anchor.

7mm Rem Mag with 160's and thats more than enough IMO

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
7mm Rem Mag with 160's and thats more than enough IMO

When I lived in northern Alberta, the most popular weapon for elk by a wide margin was 7mm RM with 160 grain Partitions.

270, 30-06, 7mm RM, 300 WM/WSM, 338 WM, etc.

400-500 yards isn't particularly far and elk in the open aren't particularly hard to kill.

quote:

elk and I have only had to shoot one animal twice and that was an elk. Both shots were good shots and very good killers I just don't take chances. I also don't take shots at those ranges unless, I HAVE ALL THE ODDS STACKED IN MY FAVOR AND KNOW I WILL MAKE THE SHOT.

Clearly Brad's experience is different from mine. I believe elk are very hard to kill. Probably the toughest NA game (although I have not shot a griz). Although not as tough as African game...

That said - I moved up from a a 7mag for elk for the same reason as snomer.

I shoot an 8mag and elk act different when they are hit with it. It just knocks them over. It has to be seen to be believed. If I were buying a new elk rifle I would get a 338 ultra mag. A wouldn't argue with a 340 weatherby but in my opinion - the 338 win does not provide the range you want...

.375 RUM or .378 bee.

quote:

Originally posted by Crosshairs:

That said - I moved up from a a 7mag for elk for the same reason as snomer.

I shoot an 8mag and elk act different when they are hit with it. It just knocks them over. It has to be seen to be believed.

I agree.

IMO, not enough focus is put on frontal area and its ability to hemmorage tissue and produce shock. Many are concerned with sectional density or energy.

If using 100% weight retaining projectiles, frontal area can be increased and velocity maintained with lighter bullets. 160-180 gr. will usually produce a complete pass-through on broadside under 250 yards, including elk.

The .323-.338 calibers put animals down quicker. It's a fact.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
A 7remmag or 300winmag will work fine but the 340wby is a great LR elk rig if you can shoot it.

$64,000 statement.

.375 H & H w/270's.

300 Weatherby

Obviously your friend didn't "cleanly kill one" if it ran off. A big 7 should have been up to the task if the proper hit had of been made. "behind the shoulder" doesn't mean a lot without knowing the angle the animal was standing. Where was the exit wound on the elk?

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
Our family has used 300 Win Mag's at long distance to take elk at those distances with the aid of reloaded ammo. We've had luck with 180g loaded on the upper end of the velocity spectrum and the 300 Win Mag seems to fit the bill for the accuracy requirement as evidenced by the 1000 yard shooters.
Once you get beyond a true 400 yards the question is not so much which cartridge but can I hit stuff at that distance. A solid rest and quality glass is a must but the wind can still give you the run around. I know that practice will solve many of these concerns but who really want to shoot 150 rounds of hot 300 Win Mag on a spring afternoon??rounds.

On the nose! Even a 30-06 if you can do your part. roger

30-06 and get closer. The sport is hunting not shooting. At one time elk were shot to near extinction with unscoped 45-70's, 30-30's and such; so "long range" rifles and shooting should not be needed now.

My .338 RUM is an incredibly accurate rifle. It is certainly my choice for long range heavy lifting. In a 7.5 lb rifle it is a handful requiring practice to develop the mental conditioning need to make the shot. It is an amazing cartridge.

It is so accurate that when I am meat hunting whitetail, I will sometimes take the .338 RUM along and make headshots. The result is a bit gruesome but damn efficient with no damaged meat.

If I was building a rifle specifically to shoot elk at long range, I would go 325 WSM.

Had the same problem a few years back, solved it with a 300RUM. A friend uses a 7STW, same results. Anything in that class makes 4-500 yards reasonably doable if you practice and use a range finder.

quote:

Originally posted by AzGuy:

quote:

Originally posted by POP:
Good advice, so far. My elk spots do not allow for such distances but if needed I do have a 30-378 Accumark. 200 Accubond at 3275 fps and .8" at 200 yards. Not too bad.

POP,

I gotta call BS... sub MOA groups with a 30-378 @ 200 yards?

Next time I'm in Cheyenne...I need to see you shoot and then buy you a beer

PS...I shoot my elk (mostly Wyoming elk) with a 375H&H

You're on! Then we will have a Greek dinner. I will cook!

Were I to pull rifles from my safe to use for 400-500 yard shots on elk, I'd pull in this order:

.375 Wby
.300 wby
7mm STW
.300 Win

I'd have confidence that any of them would fit the bill well.

Living and hunting in ID for several years I never saw any locals hunting with, or even owning for that matter anything bigger than a .30 cal mag. In terms of popularity I'd say 300 mag, 7, mag, '06, followed by .270 win and wsm in that order.

I have no doubts that the .338 mags are damn deadly but personally I am more concerned with making a shoulder shot that would anchor the animal than anything else.

I choose cartidges I can shoot 30-50 of at a sitting, and shoot at 2-300 yds 2x a month. I know I wouldn't be capable of that with a RUM of reasonable weight, but if you can more power to ya.

quote:

Originally posted by duckboat:
I think the 8mm Remington fits what you are looking for.

8 Mag is a terrific cartridge, especailly with a 200 grain Swift or TSX.