It really is. It doesn't take much increase in velocity though to match them.
The problem is if you use too slow of a twist, you can't make the heavy boolit go fast enough to spin right. So if you went to a 1 in 20" twist in the .475, you would need a lighter boolit going faster or a heavy boolit going so fast it exceeds the pressure limits.
I would say the SRH is at the limit with your load because 5 shells have to be extracted at once but the Freedom might use a little more powder because only one shell is extracted at a time. But it is still at the point where 1/10 of a gr might be enough and more is too much.
I can increase the load in the BFR over what I use but accuracy falls off.

quote:

You need to develop a consistent grip with the big guns, what you use on the range HAS to be used when hunting too. I made the mistake when I first got my .475. I was too relaxed shooting at deer and the gun came up so fast I took hair off the top of the first three deer, no blood, just a pound of hair. I can not hit a deer shooting it with one hand either. Tried that when a deer came on the wrong side, overshot by a foot!
I have no problems shooting the gun with one hand but all shots will be very high.
So look at the lighter and more powerful gun. There is no way to keep it in your left hand and keep both hands rising with the grip, the gun leaves the left hand so it is like shooting with one hand.
If you wrap your left thumb over the right one, you can break your thumb.
Any change with grip pressure and what point the gun leaves the left hand will string shots up and down. Add fatigue in the right arm and wrist and you can just lose control of where you are shooting.

I try not to copy previous messages extensively but there's a whole lot in this one I identify with.

First, I much agree you have to practice like you hunt and vice versa. Afterall that's the whole reason for range work, assuming you're really a hunter.

Second, you have to learn from your mistakes. Admitting them to others is hard, but there's probably a hundred small things that make a successful hunting shot, I think more with handguns because so little margin for error. Too many to even start naming them.

Third, on the one-handed shots, sometimes you got no choice. One for instance was when a wounded buck saw me getting down out of the stand and actually charged me. Among other things I learned from it, is forget trying to aim the gun. Go to point and shoot like a shotgun and even then it took the whole cylinder. It could be practiced for, but who'd ever think to do it??

Next, practice ALL possible shots, including one handed, double action and standing (the action practical range is real useful for this). Also practice both sitting off-hand and sitting using a rest. The last two will probably be what you use in the woods and should get plenty attention. And as far as I can tell a rest has a different POI than off-hand. I'm still working on that one by practicing from the stand itself both with and without a tree limb as a rest.

Next, on the gun leaving the left hand (I'm right handed), that's why I work hard at the "death grip" with both hands. I even do hand strengthening exercises. I really don't like for it to break free. And on the thumb behind the right hand, I realize that's poor form, but I'm afraid it helps a lot to steady everything and "tie the package together" and I tend to naturally gravitate to that. It helps to prevent break free from the other hand. BUT - I ONLY shoot deer and ONLY 41 and 44 magnums with 200 something grainers and don't have to worry about broken thumbs.

Anyway, there's a lot more to all this than non handgunners could ever imagine...

You won't break your thumb. I too put my left thumb over my right thumb, and grip very firmly. My .500 breaks my grip on every shot.......

I also practice offhand mostly -- it's the most difficult and it best prepares you for anything you may encounter in the field.

You're right, there is a hell-of-a-lot more going on than non-handgunners are aware of.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by GS:
Wish I had a picture of a VERY experienced shooter, shooting my .475 Linebaugh FA 83, Linebaugh style, putting the hammer about a 1/4 inch from his ear. I was SCARED to death he was going to have the hammer in his opposing ear, thanks to John L's videos on how to shoot his guns...

Damn, they don't kick that hard.

I could post pictures of Ed and a couple folks shooting em. 400 grains at 1350 fps, in a 3 pound gun is not something to take lightly.

Guy at the range was one of the range masters. Thought he could one hand the Fa 83 Jack built, and shoot it like John L. does on his videos. The hammer
was less then an inch from his ear on recoil.

Here is a master shooter, Ed Tilson, with my .475:





He makes it look easy: 400 grains, 1350 fps, shot once.

Here is the 500, 3.6 pounds, 525's at 1350 fps:


Same starting point

If you shoot that .475 load enough, it gets easier. My .475 load pushes a 420 at a chronograph confirmed 1,350 fps and my .475 is a double action. It used to beat me up quite a bit, but now it doesn't bother me any more. This is why one must practice, practice, practice with the heavy recoilers.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
If you shoot that .475 load enough, it gets easier. My .475 load pushes a 420 at a chronograph confirmed 1,350 fps and my .475 is a double action. It used to beat me up quite a bit, but now it doesn't bother me any more. This is why one must practice, practice, practice with the heavy recoilers.

Perhaps. Haven't heard that position working with the scandium guns, or my beast...

I've heard the same argument when I was boxing. Guys that could still make it, ended up with brain damage...

quote:

Originally posted by GS:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
If you shoot that .475 load enough, it gets easier. My .475 load pushes a 420 at a chronograph confirmed 1,350 fps and my .475 is a double action. It used to beat me up quite a bit, but now it doesn't bother me any more. This is why one must practice, practice, practice with the heavy recoilers.

Perhaps. Haven't heard that position working with the scandium guns, or my beast...

I've heard the same argument when I was boxing. Guys that could still make it, ended up with brain damage...

There's no perhaps involved. You cannot master these guns without loads of practice with full-tilt loads. Only when you master them can you hunt effectively with them. 525s at 1,350 are doable. I am going to download the .50 Alaskan to that range -- 1,350 to 1,400 fps. It'll be a lot easier to shoot than 525s at 1,575......

Brain damage due to lousy defense. The slicker fighters always lasted a lot longer (with regards to their careers).

quote:

Originally posted by GS:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by GS:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
If you shoot that .475 load enough, it gets easier. My .475 load pushes a 420 at a chronograph confirmed 1,350 fps and my .475 is a double action. It used to beat me up quite a bit, but now it doesn't bother me any more. This is why one must practice, practice, practice with the heavy recoilers.

Perhaps. Haven't heard that position working with the scandium guns, or my beast...

I've heard the same argument when I was boxing. Guys that could still make it, ended up with brain damage...

There's no perhaps involved. You cannot master these guns without loads of practice with full-tilt loads. Only when you master them can you hunt effectively with them. 525s at 1,350 are doable. I am going to download the .50 Alaskan to that range -- 1,350 to 1,400 fps. It'll be a lot easier to shoot than 525s at 1,575......

Brain damage due to lousy defense. The slicker fighters always lasted a lot longer (with regards to their careers).

WHAT DID YOU SAY?


My mother had brain damage, for 30 years, due to a tumor removed, and, for 30 years, she degraded, and didn't know who we even my GF was;-(

Now coming out, my worthless POS step in law father took her 5 grand a month, and put her in a 2.5 grand a month home. I could not do anything about it,, and my worthless
POS brother used that to try and tell me she had no will(she had a trust setup in 93, prior to brain surgery).

He, and Shaney, my worthless POS step sister, had my dad write me out of his will, which we settled on just prior to his death. Looks like little ex- brother
is doing the same with my mom, but, I have a copy of her trust...jealous POS family doesn't exist for me...

My response was to your boxing comment -- of which I know a little bit about. What in the hell does this tangent have to do with the topic at hand???????????

Now, back to recoil.......

Okay, here's the .50 Alaskan in full recoil......

Here is the 50 Alaskan in all of its recoil glory

quote:

Perhaps. Haven't heard that position working with the scandium guns, or my beast...

What are you talking about now?

quote:

Wish I had a picture of a VERY experienced shooter, shooting my .475 Linebaugh FA 83, Linebaugh style, putting the hammer about a 1/4 inch from his ear. I was SCARED to death he was going to have the hammer in his opposing ear, thanks to John L's videos on how to shoot his guns...

Being scared is no way to control recoil, one must relax and focus

I hate you are having family problems, but that belongs best under the heading of your business and not on the board. Let's stick to the topic.

SORRY GUYS. STUFF CAME UP FROM MY MOTHER'S BURIAL THIS WEEKEND.

AS FOR THE 'BEAST' THAT IS MY 360PD, WHICH IS THE MOST VICIOUS RECOILING GUN I HAVE.

I'VE NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE SHOOTING ONE A LOT, AND, THAT CURING THEIR ABILITY TO HANDLE THE GUN.

I HAVE FOUND THAT SHOOTING SOMETHING THAT REALLY RECOILS HARD, THEN STEPPING DOWN, LIKE SHOOTING THAT .50 ALASKAN, AND THEN MOVING TO A .475 LINEBAUGH, OR SHOOTING THE .510 VAN HORN WITH 600 GRAIN BULLETS, AND THEN MOVING TO THE .458 LOTT, WITH 500'S, MAKES THE LESSER OF THE GUNS FEEL TAME.

Why are you yelling?

I'm just getting ready for work...

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
I hate you are having family problems, but that belongs best under the heading of your business and not on the board. Let's stick to the topic.

Sorry. your right.

Marko: please delete your post quoting mine.
MS Hitman is right. Shouldn't have posted that here.

It is OK. Life kickes all of us in the guts from time to time. If you ever want to talk, PM me and we can exchange phone numbers.

My 4" 629 44 with full bore 300 grain loads are enough for me. I was looking at a S&W Airlight in 44 and asked the owner of the shop about recoil. He told me to put my hand on the counter and he would hit it with a ball peen hammer so I could see what it felt like. I just have no desire to shoot a gun that is painful to shoot. That kind of recoil will catch up with your joints and nerves in the wrist and elbow.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Let's talk recoil.

Many of us here love big-bore revolvers. But, there is a price to pay for the big revolvers we are so fond of. Recoil, and lots of it. I have an affinity for revolvers that can hurt me since the first Model 29 I purchased many years ago. I am still very fond of DA revolvers which all things being equal inflict more pain on the shooter than SA revolvers.

I recently got my .500 Linebaugh SRH 5-shot custom which was built from another pleasant gun of mine, a .454 Casull. I shot it roughly 30 times off the bench yesterday afternoon with full-tilt loads. Keep in mind that it weighs just under 3-lbs. I have a sore hand and forearm today, but it is more or less from the amount of pressure I needed to exert to control it off the bench. After that long, drawn-out and painful process, I shot another new acquisition of mine for the first time, a revolver in .50 Alaskan (another Huntington custom based on a prototype D-Max frame). I was already quite fatigued when I shot it, but all was going well until the eighth round when I let my guard down ever so slightly and it kissed my skull -- the front sigh split a two-inch wide gash that made me bleed like a stuck pig. Ouch. I was warned about giving it all of my undivided attention (MS Hitman and jwp475 have both had the "pleasure" of shooting that monster) as it will make you pay if you don't concentrate. Despite the blood bath, I did finish off the cylinder (I'll be damned if it defeats me...... ......yeah, I'm a little stubborn.).

So, let's hear it.

What is your practical limit?

What is the maximum recoil you are willing to tollerate?

What is the worst caliber/load/gun combination that you have shot?

Not trying to make a joke here but maybe those basketball face shields are a good idea when shooting these monsters.

This is accepted sports gear and this is a sport not a he-man contest. Just like recoil pads and eye protection.

What do you think?

How many would wear this instead of having a scope ring cut in the brow or a front sight dent in the forehead???

http://www.nba.com/features/mask_photos_050103.html

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Let's talk recoil.

Many of us here love big-bore revolvers. But, there is a price to pay for the big revolvers we are so fond of. Recoil, and lots of it. I have an affinity for revolvers that can hurt me since the first Model 29 I purchased many years ago. I am still very fond of DA revolvers which all things being equal inflict more pain on the shooter than SA revolvers.

I recently got my .500 Linebaugh SRH 5-shot custom which was built from another pleasant gun of mine, a .454 Casull. I shot it roughly 30 times off the bench yesterday afternoon with full-tilt loads. Keep in mind that it weighs just under 3-lbs. I have a sore hand and forearm today, but it is more or less from the amount of pressure I needed to exert to control it off the bench. After that long, drawn-out and painful process, I shot another new acquisition of mine for the first time, a revolver in .50 Alaskan (another Huntington custom based on a prototype D-Max frame). I was already quite fatigued when I shot it, but all was going well until the eighth round when I let my guard down ever so slightly and it kissed my skull -- the front sigh split a two-inch wide gash that made me bleed like a stuck pig. Ouch. I was warned about giving it all of my undivided attention (MS Hitman and jwp475 have both had the "pleasure" of shooting that monster) as it will make you pay if you don't concentrate. Despite the blood bath, I did finish off the cylinder (I'll be damned if it defeats me...... ......yeah, I'm a little stubborn.).

So, let's hear it.

What is your practical limit?

What is the maximum recoil you are willing to tollerate?

What is the worst caliber/load/gun combination that you have shot?

Not trying to make a joke here but maybe those basketball face shields are a good idea when shooting these monsters.

This is accepted sports gear and this is a sport not a he-man contest. Just like recoil pads and eye protection.

What do you think?

How many would wear this instead of having a scope ring cut in the brow or a front sight dent in the forehead???

http://www.nba.com/features/mask_photos_050103.html

Hell, just a ballistic helmet would be enough......

with handguns, i am a wimp
45LC, 250gr at 1000fps .. in a 27oz 625-9!
I've shot the 500 SW, in various length barrels .. i winf the casull to be far worse, especially Brad's1!!

Harry had a 500 LB that was kinda fun, for 2 mebbe 3 shots.. after that, i was DONE

I like my mild and accurate 45LC .. I've killed a pile of pigs with a 10MM, 180gr at 1200... and like my LC even better

loaded a couple hundred at these vels last night!

Jeff,

Keep the velocity around 1000fps and increase the bullet weight to 360! Some of my favorite 454 loads I have found don't have to be so nasty! Yes I have pushed 260gr at over 2000fps and 360 over 1800. For me they were very unpleasant. Other's opinions and experiences may vary. I loaded some 400gr but never could get them to my level of acceptable accuracy.

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
Jeff,

Keep the velocity around 1000fps and increase the bullet weight to 360! Some of my favorite 454 loads I have found don't have to be so nasty! Yes I have pushed 260gr at over 2000fps and 360 over 1800. For me they were very unpleasant. Other's opinions and experiences may vary. I loaded some 400gr but never could get them to my level of acceptable accuracy.

South Texas Sasquatch

Very sound advice!

but i am a handgunrecoilwimp!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
but i am a handgunrecoilwimp!

I'm the same way, I developed a bad flinch with a 44 mag, and the worst part of it is I don't realize I'm flinching with a handgun until I look at the target.

Rifles, I rarely flinch, and know it immediately.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
but i am a handgunrecoilwimp!

I'm the same way, I developed a bad flinch with a 44 mag, and the worst part of it is I don't realize I'm flinching with a handgun until I look at the target.

Rifles, I rarely flinch, and know it immediately.

Te best way to cure a flinch with a handgun is o hve someone eles to load the revolver therevolver with only one round and you will not know where the live round is. One will be dry firing at the target and forget your flinch so when the live round fires it will be a hit. Eventualy with enough practice you will cure your flinch

This is probably a good direction to take this thread. Recoil and how to cure flinch. There're probably a lot of things that help cure flinch. One is finding your practical recoil limit and staying within it - or as someone or other said "a man's got to know his limitations..."

Here are some things I try to convince myself of that seem to help - First, I tell myself that's a deer, not a paper target and no venison tenderloin if you blow it. Next, think "death grip". Then, I tell myself it's just a .22. And last, I pretend nobody's watching me shoot.

And when practicing, you might try a good bit of dry firing and on the range I work up gradually to full power hunting loads. With the .44 I like to start with specials then go to "cowboy magnums" then the real deal.

And here's a little trick that I believe is a real good idea. Use your hunting weapon a lot on the action practical range. Now, many of those don't allow magnums, but you can use lesser loads, like .44 specials, for knocking down those steel plate targets. You can make a game of it, and you'll be surprised at how good you can get.

And try some long range shooting. It forces you to remain steady and builds concentration.

That's my take on fighting flinch. Lots of practice in other words.

I try and find a 22 lr pistol similar to my big guns, in every way. I switch between them, and the flinch becomes apparent.

"Death grip" is a lot of the problem with handgun shooting. One needs to be somewhat relaxed and not grip the firearm so tightly you induce shaking. On the other hand, one does not need to relax to the point of getting whopped in the head, ain't that right...

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
"Death grip" is a lot of the problem with handgun shooting. One needs to be somewhat relaxed and not grip the firearm so tightly you induce shaking. On the other hand, one does not need to relax to the point of getting whopped in the head, ain't that right...

That's right, but with the .50 AK, you had better have enough muscle tension or you may find that your head hurts and you are bleeding...... My .500 L will induce the shakes in short order if you bear down on it too hard -- which could also lead to hemorrhoids.......

If the grips don't fit your hands, at least if they are too small, I find the most I can handle is about 325's at 1350 fps, in a normal sized SA.
And, I can't handle those for long.

When I first got my big guns, they had very small grips on them:



The custom grips made a huge difference in shooting the .500 Max, .475 Linebaugh, and my Heavy 45 Colt Seville.



No fun when you try someones' big gun and the grips are too small...

I was very sad when I found this out, since the grips on the .500 Max were beautiful buffalo horn...

quote:

"Death grip" is a lot of the problem with handgun shooting.

That certainly can be true, but doesn't have to be. The way I do the "death grip" is, tighten until it starts to quiver then back off ONLY enough that it's steady and hold it there. And don't begin that process until the deer is clearly in range and you're ready to press trigger. It's another item on my list of things for practice.

Now, I can see that over-relaxation makes one a candidate for getting "whopped in the head". I suppose the best solution for anyone prone to that is a football helmet as a shooting accessory...

This has been a great discussion, lots of good points made.
Many times I have thought of making a shoulder stock that you could hold any revolver against.
Yeah, I could turn into an old cheat real fast!

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
This has been a great discussion, lots of good points made.
Many times I have thought of making a shoulder stock that you could hold any revolver against.
Yeah, I could turn into an old cheat real fast!

An old something or another either way.......

The wife, demonstrating broken grip during recoil of 475 Linebaugh, BFR barrel cut to 6", 420gr Buffalo Bore 1350fps load.
Recoil

Ouch !! The effect.
The effect

The wife, FA 454, 5.5" Magna-Ported, 45 Colt 325gr BB 1325fps load.FA 454, 45 Colt 325gr

ldmay375, you got one tough lady there. Smiles even when she is hit in the head. Love a woman that likes to shoot..

I have the standard factory grips on my Freedom Arms 475L. What after market grips would folks recommend? I received a set of Pachmeyers with the gun, but, as near as I can tell, they don't fit! They are certainly larger and would provide less "flip" I'm sure. Couldn't find a model number on them.
Peter.