One tough lady!
FLINCH----I don't think it can be totally cured unless you shoot thousands of rounds a week. Heavy loads and light guns need much more practice but up front, I don't like light guns since I want recoil control for hunting and have no use for a backup, carry gun unless I get charged by one of Whitworths viscous chipmunks.
I took my Vaquero down a while back, loaded one round and spun the cylinder after every pull of the trigger. Darn gun moved every time with my hunting load using a 347 gr boolit.
Dry firing in the basement showed two problems. The hammer fall moved the light gun and the long trigger sweep caused a problem but that was still not the flinch I was getting on the range.
It is funny that my BFR's don't react like this and I have less trouble with the .475 then I do with the .45 Colt. Also this goes away when shooting at deer for some reason because the shot is always gone without thought or a feeling I am pulling the trigger, I never remember pulling the trigger, the shot is gone as soon as the sights are where I want them.
The same thing happens with a bow and as soon as the pin is on, the arrow is gone. I can't aim at a deer for 5 minutes and have no control of when the shot goes.
Paper targets are my downfall off hand and I have less trouble with tin cans.
My problem is ONLY off hand when paper target shooting and any other position will be free of flinch.
One thing does make me think, being used to the heavy revolvers and recoil seems to make it harder to shoot anything light. I can't shoot my .22 pistol for beans anymore either, it just wiggles all over the place.
Maybe shooting so many different guns can have a negative effect.
This would make a good discussion with all of you posting your experiences with different guns.

quote:

Posted 03 May 2010 18:12 Hide Post
I have the standard factory grips on my Freedom Arms 475L. What after market grips would folks recommend? I received a set of Pachmeyers with the gun, but, as near as I can tell, they don't fit! They are certainly larger and would provide less "flip" I'm sure. Couldn't find a model number on them.
Peter.

I can't shoot the nice shiny grips on the Freedom without pain. The rubber grips are made to fit more then one gun and don't fit any perfect---not to worry, it is just appearance. They make a world of difference.
As much as I love fancy grips and wonderful wood, looks and function are two different things.
To show off the gun put the nice ones on and to shoot the gun put the ugly ones on.

quote:

Originally posted by ldmay375:
The wife, demonstrating broken grip during recoil of 475 Linebaugh, BFR barrel cut to 6", 420gr Buffalo Bore 1350fps load.
Recoil

That's a lot of recoil, for such a small woman!!!

She deserves a lot of respect for that! When I hear all the men out there whining about how much a .44 mag kicks......

quote:

This would make a good discussion with all of you posting your experiences with different guns.

On the shooting .22s I agree they wobble more, but I think that's just because of how light and not because I'm subconsciously thinking .44 magnum when using them. I just go about .22s completely differently. Most of my practice with those is now only when squirrel hunting. Light or kind of medium firm two hand grip, shoot sitting usually, elbows on knees and forget recoil because there isn't any. That's actually important to remember. No recoil management necessary.

It's a different form of discipline involved, and there will frequently be multiple follow up shots, maybe a couple mags of them and you have to concentrate on your strategy for how to go about it. And in the back of your mind you've got the question of switching to the shotgun when it's time for that. Plenty to do in other words.

I don't shoot the "true heavies" but on .41 and .44 magnum I have a little ritual to go thru on recoil management. When I see a deer, I take off the glove on my right hand, put the hearing muffs on, unbutton my jacket and reach in and slowly draw the gun from its Bianchi X-15 shoulder hoster. Let the deer keep coming if it will, slowly outstretch the arms and point it, get both hands positioned on the grip, put the trigger finger in the guard but off the trigger, then think "death grip" and start tightening until the gun quivers, then relax just enough that it's steady and no more, then cock it, then decide on the point of aim, and now start aiming and following the changing movement. The rest you know.

On recoil management, I may even tell myself, pretend it's just a .22. Believe it or not, that actually seems to help sometimes. After I squeeze the trigger, usually it's "see there, you were worrying about nothing".

Btw, if you like watching the gals shoot the big ones - http://automagpistol.com/gallery.htm

That's a lot of recoil, for such a small woman!!!--jwp475:
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"She deserves a lot of respect for that! When I hear all the men out there whining about how much a .44 mag kicks...... " --Whitworth
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JWP / Whitworth: Yep, on both accounts. Not a 1/64th of her 5'-0" is a whiner. She is wearing a bandaid this morning. Damn, I still feel bad about letting her shoot the BFR with those loads, but even with blood still trickling she would have fired it more. It had been many years since I had fired a 475, '89 one of JWP's Bowen Bisleys; and after firing a cyclinder full through the BFR, I thought hell this ain't bad and let her fire it. -- Interestingly, she is now hooked on the Big bores. She is wanting to move up from her 44 S&W Classic 5" --
------------------------------------------------

quote:

Originally posted by ldmay375:
The wife, demonstrating broken grip during recoil of 475 Linebaugh, BFR barrel cut to 6", 420gr Buffalo Bore 1350fps load.
Recoil

She does love to shoot and the outdoors, and actually shoots revolvers very well. She literally amazed me with her S&W 617 4" at 100 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:
ldmay375, you got one tough lady there. Smiles even when she is hit in the head. Love a woman that likes to shoot..

quote:

I don't shoot the "true heavies" but on .41 and .44 magnum I have a little ritual to go thru on recoil management. When I see a deer, I take off the glove on my right hand, put the hearing muffs on, unbutton my jacket and reach in and slowly draw the gun from its Bianchi X-15 shoulder hoster. Let the deer keep coming if it will, slowly outstretch the arms and point it, get both hands positioned on the grip, put the trigger finger in the guard but off the trigger, then think "death grip" and start tightening until the gun quivers, then relax just enough that it's steady and no more, then cock it, then decide on the point of aim, and now start aiming and following the changing movement. The rest you know.

A little different here when deer are not seen at a distance. I keep the revolver in hand and cock if I see a deer coming, it is usually close. Sometimes I have to cock, raise the gun and shoot fast.
I don't hear the gun loud or feel any recoil, it can be over in seconds.
Whitworth knows, there will be no deer and all of a sudden you have to shoot NOW because one came out of the woodwork.
There is no way to keep a gun in a holster. It is a now or never shot. Many of my deer are shot on the move and even running past like crazy.
There is usually no time to think. Instinct takes over.
We hunt travel paths, not food plots where you have an hour to plan.
If I had to go through that ritual, I would never kill a deer because they would be here and gone. Dare not have a glove on that needs removed or a coat that needs unbuttoned. We can't hunt with concealed anyway, the holster is outside. But the gun is not in it, it has to be in the hand.
I can't hunt deer with a bow either with arrows in the quiver, there must be one on the bow, ready to shoot in an instant. The bow must be in hand, not hanging from a hook.
Yes, I have watched deer for an hour, out of range, behind brush. But when they come, they are coming fast, going past fast too. Find a hole, aim into it and shoot at the right time. Hunting and shooting at it's finest, no plans or picking shots. Now or never!
We stack up deer better then the rifle shooters can dream of.

Yeah, I never have time for all of that. I get in my stand, get settled, take the revolver out of the holster, remove my right glove and wait, because when it happens there is little warning and you have to be ready to shoot.

Well, our circumstances are probably different. I'm primarily a field hunter with a stand on the field's edge just inside the woods or in old growth woods that are sparse, where you see a fair piece. So I get a good look usually at the deer that wind up being my dinner guests.

I also think the time for my "ritual" appears here longer than it is because of the way I describe it. It's all done as quickly as possible without making a sudden enough movement to be spotted. But, true, it's mainly not snap shots I'm doing. However, I do appreciate the talent of those who are good at that.

I'm not a "single issue" handgun hunter. I have the rifle along too, always. Having both in the lap or trying to use the rifle with the handgun resting in the lap, enters into this. I don't need the handgun accidentally falling from my lap while shooting the rifle. There's also the thing about needing to put on the muffs when using the handgun. I can't stand wearing those for 5 hours straight, but must have them to shoot a magnum handgun. Got no choice about that. It takes some amount of time to mess with those in getting ready to shoot.

That said, I have kept at times the handgun in my lap too. It has paid off. I shot one buck with it (the Model 29), and for no particular reason didn't re-holster it. A few minutes later here comes another deer running up from out of the woods behind me, passes close underneath, and to the woods' edge right in front. I think it was looking at the first deer. 20 yarder maybe. She wasn't going to stay there long and it was an easy handgun shot, so that's what happened next.

None of which of course has to do with recoil.

I don't really feel the recoil either and just barely hear the gun go off. In fact, I'll even say this, and it's just a slight exaggeration, the only way I can tell there was recoil is there's that temporary inconvenience of not being able to see the deer because the barrel has flipped up in the line of sight.

Very good Shack!
The strange thing is that a shot at a deer with no muffs does not bother me but just one shot on the range hurts my ears like the devil. Only did it once and that was enough.
I quit using a rifle long ago, making the revolver my primary gun. The way I do it, because I doze in the stand, is I put a sling stud in the butt and use a 6' utility sling from Midsouth.
It works like a charm. Here is how I do it.

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:


Once as a recoil test of sorts I took a win model 12 pump in 16 ga and loaded one round, a heavy field load. 1 1/4 oz I think. The gun itself is not as heavily built as the 12 ga model 12. Otherwise I don't know if I could have even tried this. What I did was hold it one hand only with arm extended all the way straight out horizontally, to see if I could hold it tight enough to not drop it when fired. Interesting test. Anyone else ever try anything like that?

Yes. Many times. It ain't easy.

quote:

Once as a recoil test of sorts I took a win model 12 pump in 16 ga and loaded one round, a heavy field load. 1 1/4 oz I think. The gun itself is not as heavily built as the 12 ga model 12. Otherwise I don't know if I could have even tried this. What I did was hold it one hand only with arm extended all the way straight out horizontally, to see if I could hold it tight enough to not drop it when fired. Interesting test. Anyone else ever try anything like that?

Heck yeah! When we were young we would run a course shooting at cans, etc with a 12 ga, firing one hand. I used an Ithaca featherlight.
Not anywhere near as bad as some revolvers, rather pleasant in fact.
The worst thing I ever did was to pull both triggers at once on a double 12 ga once too many times. It spun me around, the forearm fell off and the barrels hit the ground!
Had to quit before I damaged the gun.
The Ithaca 37 was a great gun, hold the trigger back and keep pumping, it was faster then a semi auto by far.
We would roll tires down a hill with cardboard stuffed in the center and shoot model 29's double action at them. Great fun but it left a nice checkering pattern on the palm.
What we did would make some flinch, scream in pain and go home crying! We were crazy and laughed all day.
Recoil was FUN.
I will shoot anything as long as it doesn't cut me bad. I get tired of seeing blood spray.

bfr & everybody, I finally couldn't resist the temptation any longer to respond. It appears we've done some of the same stuff over the years. I too got my dose of recoil by doing double discharges on SxS shotguns. The last one was an old A.H. Fox that I didn't know had worn sears when I bought it (you gotta watch out on buying old high grade so-called "classics" - many object lessons learned the hard way there). I remember on a quail hunt the unexpected vicious recoil of 2 1/4 oz of combined shot going at the same time out of that light gun. I tell you, that was one quail that was going nowhere. That bird had more holes in it than it didn't have.

I used to shoot Model 37s too. I liked them so much I even had an unusal one special ordered. A Supreme Skeet grade. No real purpose in it, excepting in the catalog it looked neat so I thought I had to have one. It actually was really rare, and who knows, maybe whoever owns it today has something worth serious coin. To tell the truth however, while I liked the 37, I probably think the 870 was the smoothest of the pumps. The Model 12 I suppose takes second place.

And the rolling tires down hills...does that bring back memories. We put cardboard in the centers too, only we hung them from tree limbs and for moving targets just gave them a swing.

Yes, we all experimented with recoil. I also remember going thru a stage when I became fascinated with African rifles, probably after reading the books by Bell and Taylor too many times. I had a Parker Hale Enfield .577 muzzleloader then and was doing my own projos with plumbing supply store lead. I don't still have any of it, but the biggest I think was either 480 or more likely 580 grains. A big blunt nose affair made from the largest of several .577 molds I had. Anyway, I used to use 60 gr of FFg as the standard load, but one day at the deer camp I decided to double it to 120 gr just to see what would happen. Probably not the smartest thing to do. But I did it. And afterwards, the first thought thru my mind was, I sure do wonder if that was anything like what those guys used on elephants...I had a fleeting thought of 180 gr FFg but said, no, I'm not pulling the trigger on that with this gun..

I own/shoot/hunt with a S&W 500mag PC Hunter, haven't seen my recoil limit yet.

I have however passed the threshold of pain in the hearing department a couple times, once with that revolver (I now know what the Devil's chimes sound like!!) and once with my ported 3" 44mag

Both times felt like someone stabbed my brain through my ear with a pencil.
Serious pain.
Both times were accidental, hearing protection on the sides of my head and not over my ears, having allowed myself distraction between strings of shooting over the chronograph.
Years between the two events, and both times I promised myself to never let THAT happen again...



Cheers
Tinker

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Let's talk recoil.

Many of us here love big-bore revolvers. But, there is a price to pay for the big revolvers we are so fond of. Recoil, and lots of it. I have an affinity for revolvers that can hurt me since the first Model 29 I purchased many years ago. I am still very fond of DA revolvers which all things being equal inflict more pain on the shooter than SA revolvers.

I recently got my .500 Linebaugh SRH 5-shot custom which was built from another pleasant gun of mine, a .454 Casull. I shot it roughly 30 times off the bench yesterday afternoon with full-tilt loads. Keep in mind that it weighs just under 3-lbs. I have a sore hand and forearm today, but it is more or less from the amount of pressure I needed to exert to control it off the bench. After that long, drawn-out and painful process, I shot another new acquisition of mine for the first time, a revolver in .50 Alaskan (another Huntington custom based on a prototype D-Max frame). I was already quite fatigued when I shot it, but all was going well until the eighth round when I let my guard down ever so slightly and it kissed my skull -- the front sigh split a two-inch wide gash that made me bleed like a stuck pig. Ouch. I was warned about giving it all of my undivided attention (MS Hitman and jwp475 have both had the "pleasure" of shooting that monster) as it will make you pay if you don't concentrate. Despite the blood bath, I did finish off the cylinder (I'll be damned if it defeats me...... ......yeah, I'm a little stubborn.).

So, let's hear it.

What is your practical limit?

What is the maximum recoil you are willing to tollerate?

What is the worst caliber/load/gun combination that you have shot?

Not sure I've hit my pain limit but have met my "fun" limit shooting a .44 Mag. Scandium S&W329PD along with a full house .357 Mag. in a small, scandium S&W340PD. Those light guns with full power loads certainly get your attention plus put a bit of a twang in the web of your shooting hand.

Shooting a .500 Linebaugh with full power Buffalo Bore 400+ gr. loads in a custom Redhawk got my attention but after the first cylinder full of "shock and awe", it turned into a fun, powerful handgun that I used to take my first feral hog. Smiles everyone, smiles.

I'm way more of a wimp when it comes to rifles. For some reason, and I suppose it's my build somehow even though I'm 6'5" @ 230lbs., that I don't like shooting anything much more than a .30-06 without a nice recoil pad. Bring on the big bore handguns and you can keep the big rifles. Ugh.

I can handle my two 4 inch 500 linebaughs ok with max loads. They do get on you if you fire more then a hundred rounds in a sitting though. MY 5.5 inch 475 and my 4 5/8s fa 475 and my 454 all kick a bit less. Ive put some rounds through both the 475 and 500 max and dont really care to shoot one again. They will teach you to flinch fast! I would guess your 50ak is another one that would. the heaviest kicking handgun i ever shot is a toss up. On one side id pick my buddys bond deringer in 44 mag shooting 300s with 22 grains of 110. the other was kelly brosts 458 lott encore.

One good thing though is if you spend a day shooting the really big guns and go out the next with a 44 mag its like shooting a 22!

quote:

Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
One good thing though is if you spend a day shooting the really big guns and go out the next with a 44 mag its like shooting a 22!

So very true, Lloyd!

Well, my comfort zone is 325 grain flat points, over 27 grains of AA 9, for about 1400 fps out of my 7.5" FA 83's.

For my .500 Max, I'm looking at 500 rounds of .500 Linebaugh brass, short version, with 27 grains again, and about 1350 fps, using 350 grain
lead LFN's.

I'm getting old, like my arms and wrists, and, those rounds are about 25-50 grains heavier then the old Swiss rifle round that Fackler claims is more powerful then a .223 rifle.

And to think all I have is my puny 480

quote:

Originally posted by mr.pepper:
And to think all I have is my puny 480

That only means that you are smarter than many here (myself included!)!

I still wanna try the big boys out just dont know
anyone close by that has one of the big boomers.

Well, if you were nearby you could try all of my excessive generators of recoil......

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Well, if you were nearby you could try all of my excessive generators of recoil......

Aren't you near the Chesapeake area?

What is your practical limit?

I don`t know - but my 454 is touching the limit.

What is the maximum recoil you are willing to tollerate? 454

What is the worst caliber/load/gun combination that you have shot? 45-70 with full loads in a BFR and TC (without comp)

Somebody say that recoil don`t affect them at all

I'm not afraid of recoil 300WSM,45/70 with some decent loads and my 480 is all I shot.
I do sometimes shoot my 480 one handed 25 yards
at a pie plate and didnt do to bad.
Haven't shot a 454 yet...

quote:

Originally posted by mr.pepper:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Well, if you were nearby you could try all of my excessive generators of recoil......

Aren't you near the Chesapeake area?

Farther south.....

Having shot just about everything except Whitworth's .50 Alaskan with the wrong grips, I can say the .454 is not bad at all. Not a whole lot worse then a .44 with heavy boolits. It has a sharper recoil but not as strong as the larger calibers. The .480 feels a little better as it is slower but neither matches a .475.
There is a difference between velocity recoil and heavy boolit recoil but combine velocity with a heavy boolit and you can have blood and pain.
I never figured the fear of .454 recoil having shot a pile of rounds from a Freedom without noticing it. I think the muzzle blast has more effect on the shooter. It is just the little brother to a real revolver!

My .50 Alaskan doesn't have the wrong grip, you have the wrong hands!

I think a 50AK in a BFR would be my limit
The 475 just has a ring to it and there is/was one
available on gunbroker.com for under a grand I'll find the listing later, but the gun seller is not far from where I live. So if it is still listed
I may be able to do a face to face and see what i may be missing.

mr. pepper, I think you will find the .50 Alaskan exceeds the limits of even the most hardened big-bore handguners by a very large margin! You can get a new BFR in .475 Linebaugh for right around $800.00 - such a bargain!

All this teasing my heart just won't take it...

There's only one solution and one cure......

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
There's only one solution and one cure......

That's one heck of a pacemaker!

Don't pass up a BFR, it is a pleasure to shoot once you get used to it. The Freedom is a lot worse. It is a lot lighter.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Don't pass up a BFR, it is a pleasure to shoot once you get used to it. The Freedom is a lot worse. It is a lot lighter.

Actually, the FA 83 is more than 50-oz.......definietely no lightweight.

I am in the process of contacting Hamilton Bowen
about converting mine to 475 or 500 Linebaugh.
Here is something similar

Whitworth, you are wrong. The Freedom .475 with a 7-1/2" barrel weighs 50 oz. (3.2#)
The BFR weighs 56 oz. (3.5#)
That is enough to tame a lot of recoil.

Mr. Pepper -- here is my Huntington .500 Linebaugh SRH.