The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Ele ...Side Brain Shoot ?!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Ele ...Side Brain Shoot ?! | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
| ||
|
| One of Us |
Damn!!!!!!!! Did it die from lead poisoning? | |||
|
One of Us |
 | |||
|
One of Us |
The angles weren't quite right on some of the shots, and the bull was moving slightly on some of the others. Wonder what caliber he was using? Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
|
| one of us |
It was amazing that with all that shooting and elapsed time, the ele did not run off or charge. Buzz certainly has patience on this one. Dak | |||
|
| One of Us |
Seems I recall some posters stating how much more ethical it is to take an elephant with a rifle than a bow. YES, this was much cleaner and humane that a bow kill would have been. Shot ten times and screaming bloody murder all the while. This gives me an idea that it is not the weapon that makes for a clean and humane kill. Rather it is the skill of the hunter handling the weapon.  We seldom get to choose But I've seen them go both ways And I would rather go out in a blaze of glory Than to slowly rot away! | |||
|
| One of Us |
I wonder if I could carry enough ammo for that? The only easy day is yesterday! | |||
|
| One of Us |
It still only took about 3 minutes for the animal to die. What is the average time for arrow shot eles to die? Three hours or 3 days? I am one of those who think that most elephants realize they have been mortally wounded with a chest shot--either from a rifle or a bow. Two shots from a .40+ into the heart/lung area, and the animal will expire in a minute or less, most of the time. The potential prolonged misery to the elephant is just not worth using a bow. This particular ele was too stunned to know anything other than that his head hurt, IMO. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
|
one of us |
It pains me to watch that crap. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
| one of us |
"Well done, eh?" ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Steve- I address you because you responded to me. I do not wish to get confrontational and start a pissing match.I do not know how long it takes the AVERAGE bow shot elephant to expire. But it has been my experience with other big game that is bow killed that the bigger the animal the quicker it bleeds out, if it is shot well. Larger game has big blood vessels under higher pressure and I think that this is why hemorhagic death comes quickly to large game in many cases. The studies done by Tony Tomkinson and referenced by an earlier poster demonstrated that time of death was statistically equal between gun and bow shot animals when the same shot location was made with each weapon. I discussed my observations with Tony when we hunted together in September of 07 and while he did not question my observations he pointed out that they neither supported his study or conflicted with it as he had compared time of death between gun shot animals with time of death between bow shot animals. This supports my earlier statement the the shooter is more important than the weapon in making sure the animal is dispatched quickly and humanely. We seldom get to choose But I've seen them go both ways And I would rather go out in a blaze of glory Than to slowly rot away! | |||
|
| One of Us |
You havent bow hunted much have you? One thing that I have never seen is a gunshot animal put their head down and go back to grazing . A bow shot animal often times does not even realize that it has been struck until the lights go out. (When I was a kid my father used to tell me that God hated a coward, I finally realized he has even less use for a fool.) | |||
|
| One of Us |
Here again, not how large the caliber you use, but how you place your shots | |||
|
| One of Us |
Doubt that ever happens with an ele. I have bowhunted plenty. It occasionally(not often) happens that a deer sized animal does not know it has been hit with an arrow. It also happens that sometimes even people don't know they've been hit with a bullet (ala Pres. Reagan). Ever seen a bear get hit with an arrow? He damn well knows it. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
|
| One of Us |
eyedoc, Like certain medical studies that can't be done because of the human misery involved, I do not think that a study of how long it takes bow-shot ele to expire will ever happen. If you wish to do so and can find a place where it is legal, then you should be able to do it if you wish. However, we do owe the animal a quick death, and a prolonged death or lost ele would be worse than never getting to hunt them, IMO. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
|
| One of Us |
| |||
|
| One of Us |
Why would one post that video for the whole world to see? | |||
|
| one of us |
The relevant question for this thread for sure!! ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Steve- The study was already done. Tony Tomkinson of the Natal Parks Commision did the work. His conclusion after taking hunndreds of animals with a bow and a rifle concluded that when shot in the same location bow shot animals time of death was statistically identical to the time of death when the animal was shot in the same location with a rifle. This study is what led to the opening of sport bowhunting in RSA. The study is widely accepted as a valid work. We seldom get to choose But I've seen them go both ways And I would rather go out in a blaze of glory Than to slowly rot away! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Once again, were there any elephants (or other pachyderms) in the study??? Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
|
One of Us |
This has nothing to do with the firearm, cartridge, whether it could have been a bow or anything except that this chap should have never been allowed to hunt elephant, nor anything else for that matter. This fellow has no concept of how to handle his rifle, where to shoot, what to do, how to do, zero! I can't even imagine him with a bow and stick, which would require some skills. If you watch this, there is imagined recoil, this chap actually pulls the gun high after every shot, imagined recoil. Rifle goes up, then he brings it down to load. He has not done his homework before hand. He is not a shooter. I don't know what he is doing in the field to start with. The term ridiculous comes to mind. And of course it's the PH's job to tell his client "Well Done". While the entire time he is thinking what an idiot! I have to admire most PH's for being able to do that. Me? I would have gone nuts and shot the damn elephant, especially after 3 or 4 shots!!!!!! I did not count them but there was a lot of useless shooting going on, with the shear weight of the bullets alone bringing the elephant down! A sorry sight to behold and no fault of the rifle, none of the cartridge or bullet--the individual as I see it. If I am wrong, please tell me to watch it again, I was a little short on time and breezed thru it, so maybe I didn't catch all I needed to. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Great video. Does anyone know what caliber was used? I thought it was well done. Ike...the shooter ....@#%* the elephant up on the first shot. That bull was going nowhere. What impressed me the most was that Buzz did not interfere with the hunter. He could have easily shot as was well. Buzz allowing the hunter to do all the shooting demonstrates integrity and character ...look at the reaction of the hunter and his companion. They were thrilled. Fantastic job Buzz! | |||
|
| One of Us |
What a shame! The guy was scared of his rifle even though he has a sissy brake on it. I am impressed by the patience of the PH though. The funniest part was when the client says, "Oh it's a strong elephant" a couple of times. The PH must be thinking, "It's not a strong elephant, you are just a lousy shot." The price of knowledge is great but the price of ignorance is even greater. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Yes - but admittedly very few. I personally have taken five giraffe, two buffalo and six eland with a bow. When I did my part they died within sight.Both buffalo were down in seconds and I watched them expire. I made clean one shot kills on giraffe and have video showing them drop on camera. Same with eland. I just cannot imagine that elephant are all that different. If you poke a hole through their lungs and/or heart , they will bleed out and die in short order. We seldom get to choose But I've seen them go both ways And I would rather go out in a blaze of glory Than to slowly rot away! | |||
|
One of Us |
Just ugly and painful to watch. This could be an instructional video on how NOT to shoot an elephant. We all have bad days, but that hunter's shooting was abysmal. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I think the PH shoulda just waited for a clear heart/lung shot.. The bull wasn't in a proper position for the side brain shot when that 1st shot went off. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Well, you have taken an impressive array of large animals with your bow. You do agree that the skin, muscle, and rib-bone on the elephant will be each 2 1/2 to 3 times the thickness of that of the giraffe? And that after penetrating that and another 18-26 inches of lung to just get to the heart, it is a far different amount of penetration required? But still, it is your choice if it is legal somewhere. Good Luck. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
|
One of Us |
Agree. Not even close. DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
|
| One of Us |
Well Steve,,, I have seen eyedoc shoot through many of these large animals with his bow,,,,He wasn't using a traditional long bows or poisioned bushman arrows but modern heavy draw bows with appropriate arrow shaft density and weight and heavy broadheads for the game he was hunting. I know first hand because many times I was running the video equipement and was the cameraman. The point he was making,,,, it isn't the weapon but the quality of the shot placement. I certainly wouldn't want to see the guy in the video try and shoot anything else with any weapon. The PH was extremely patient, more than I would have been I assure you. If anyone is capable of bowhunting an elephant with a bow it would be eyedoc. I assure you he has no problem shooting a rifle either and is good with his 375 H&H and an open sighted 416 Rigby. I have seen him shoot those as well. Once again, his point is ,,put the projectile in the boilermaker, the weapon of choice is not as important as being good with what your weapon is. It is tough for me to watch someone have to shoot 10 times to kill anything regardless of the weapon. you can make more money, you can not make more time | |||
|
| One of Us |
Posted 25 March 2009 03:16 by drwes "Well Steve,,, I have seen eyedoc shoot through many of these large animals with his bow,,,,He wasn't using a traditional long bows or poisioned bushman arrows but modern heavy draw bows with appropriate arrow shaft density and weight and heavy broadheads for the game he was hunting. I know first hand because many times I was running the video equipement and was the cameraman. The point he was making,,,, it isn't the weapon but the quality of the shot placement. " __________________________________ If the archery equipment can consistently shoot all the way thru a buffalo or a giraffe (like most solids from ele calibers do) then it should have enough penetration. I am unaware whether any bow/arrow combinations are capable of that. It is not all shot placement. On pachyderms in particular, penetration becomes very much a factor, and that is not being addressed adequately here, yet. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
|
| One of Us |
I dont know how far the are from the Elephant before the first shoot. Why the are not useing shooting sticks...to get better results. Some shoots are way out IMO. Seloushunter Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
|
| One of Us |
Obviously the first shot rattled him pretty good and "Ike" was staying on the trigger pretty well... ...However, this is why I always stress to other hunters the importance of carrying plenty of ammo - Regardless of the caliber you are shooting. I carry 10 up front and 10 in reserve! JW | |||
|
| new member |
Well done... MY ASS ! Bad angles, no sticks, Guide recommending a spine shot, you can see the bullet strike in the right ham! If the guide had any respect for the animal he would have ended It and taken the clients rifle away! now I know why people join PETA !! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Looked to me like part of the issue was the client's physical shape. He was not carrying his own rifle, and it looked like he was using a cane to walk. This was probably in Mr. McCallum's (or is it Charlton- I don't remember) opinion the best shot the guy was going to get. Maybe he broke a leg with his first shot- from what I have read the elephant cannot move with a broken leg. To all that say all the comments about poor shooting, I will have to agree it was bad shot placement, but I know that I would have the jitters big time shooting an elephant. Let he who has never buggered up a shot cast the first stone here though. Was the shooter Japanese? Might just have a bit of bearing on how much shooting he is able to do before he went hunting. | |||
|
| One of Us |
You're absolutely correct. The guy jerked every shot. I'm amazed he hit the animal, much less killed it. He should have spent a few months on the range with that rifle and that load before ever taking to the field. IMHO, it was a disgraceful bit of shooting. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I agree with Jeff Wemmer and crbutler. The guy stayed on trigger well, got his follow up shots quickly, and the ele was actually down within 2 minutes of the first shot, although it seemed an eternity. Obviously Japanese, using a cane, rather frail, probably very little opportunity to get to shoot-- if he wants to shoot an elephant before he gets any worse, well, power-to -him. CM realized the ele wasn't going anywhere, and how important it is to many hunters for the PH to shoot only if the animal is fleeing and poorly shot. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
|
| One of Us |
Amen, I hate to second guess the PH but, This seems all wrong. This is not something that need to see the light of the day.  NRA LIFE MEMBER DU DIAMOND SPONSOR IN PERPETUITY DALLAS SAFARI CLUB LIFE MEMBER SCI FOUNDATION MEMBER | |||
|
One of Us |
I watched and rewatched the video in question and I think he did not realize or understand where he was to shoot... Watching the shots to me they looked high and wide... looks like he shot a whole in one ear.. His rifle looked like a 458 or a 458 Lott with a muzzle brake on it... I felt he was shooting and not aiming... But I do agree with many he really did rattle that eles brain and he was unable to run off... Also I carry 10 up front two in double and one in either pocket so no rattle 14 and another 10 in trackers backpack... I have to give Buzz alot of credit of keeping his cool... Mike | |||
|
| One of Us |
He did get his Elephant. While I am sure nothing like this has happened to anyone here; it does happen. He hung with it and got it done. No freaking out by the PH and mission accomplished. Any landing you can walk away from is supposed to be a good one. I just don't think I would have posted the video. It is not the rifle range gentlemen. He put his frail little butt in harms way and did his best. Jeff | |||
|
| One of Us |
That video is a disgrace. The hunter is a disgrace to hunters and the PH letting it go on is disgraceful. That grand beast deserves the very best the hunter can give it and that "hunter" should've stuck to whatever it was he did for a living because it sure as hell wasn't being around rifles. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Ele ...Side Brain Shoot ?!
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
