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 Funny....no mention at all of the money that these hunts will bring in that actually save the wildlife of these areas...... Jo? How much money have you contributed to anti poaching or habitat conservation directly? . | |||
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She's back! Quoting the Humane Society on animal matters is about as credible as quoting Bernard Madoff on ethics matters. These people will never get it no matter how obvious it is. They are simply wired differently. I wish these foaming at the mouth types had been with me recently. I met with an operator from Mozambique. He showed me photos of what his anti-poaching had done in 2015. If I recall correctly, they picked up 1600 gin traps and 8000 snares. I wish I could remember the number of guns and the number of arrests. These efforts saved THOUSANDS of animals. If these hunters weren't there who would do this? No one, that's who. | |||
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Not to mention things like this: http://jlsafaris.com/legal-hun...in-namibia-per-year/ I am sure those rural villagers will just get in their cars and drive to the local supermarket and buy their food. If you believe that....... | |||
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IUCN Big game hunting in Africa is economically useless We need to focus our message to the real benefits "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Did you really expect anything useful from Jellybrains??  | |||
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Not really Saeed. | |||
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"Pay to slay auction" - how emotional of them. Do you think they shed a tear for the multitudes of locals killed by lions and other animals on a regular basis? It's sad that human life to these nutcases is somehow cheaper than that of other animals...... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Do honestly think if these idiots had any brains might mind their own business? They have such a shallow life they feel very jealous of everyone else! | |||
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Saeed, I have very low expectations -- that way I'm rarely disappointed....  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Did anyone notice that the paper was published by UICN, not the IUCN, and that buried up front is the statement that the findings are not necessarily those of the IUCN? I Googled UICN and nothing came up. It may or may not be a legitimate organization and the paper's findings may or may not be valid for West Africa, but I for one will not be surprised when they are applied to southern Africa and considered as gospel. Bill Quimby | |||
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When they start off with words like "pay and slay", you know independent means heavily biased in every way. I wish that they would search some factual stuff as well. Like this happy thread: DAPU Say what you want, but Buzz and Myles makes this happen through hunting. Wish this would be a part of the what the media would show. | |||
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'Hunting, as much as people might detest it, DOES HAVE A ROLE IN CONSERVATION,' Andrew Loveridge, a researcher who collared and studied Cecil the lion, told the BBC earlier this year. 'About 1.5 million square kilometres of African wildlife habitat is protected as hunting reserves. If there was no hunting, what would happen with that land?' That would be from the horses mouth so to speak. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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They are correct in that it is less valuable than cattle or agriculture. No wild animals in those venues. Read the report. Hell if you want maximum economic impact put in a shopping mall. You can't have wild hinter lands and maximum economic impact. Socialist land management? Jeff | |||
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Bill, I stand corrected but the UICN is the French acronym for IUCN. My point about focusing on the "message" about hunting is that the real benefit is the conservation aspect of hunting rather than the economical one. So rather than keep saying that hunting contributes to the local economy (It does but in a negligible way in the greater picture), let's hammer the conservation message.  no one can argue against that. "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Agree and our sport protects land, water and its associated habitats. Also the creation of a wildness estate is a valuable asset to communities. I would say the best possible scenario is (if possible) to entertain a number of activities ranging from non consumptive Tourism to bee keeping etc under one umbrella. Communities should be deriving incomes from a wide range of businesses and not simply reliant on hunting. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Indeed! Ecosystem Services to provide additional funding to bridge the revenue gap to make the consumptive wildlife land use model attractive and sustainable. "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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The last statement takes the cake "of which most is spent on lobbying Washington." What about the money SCI are pumping into research programs and the protection of wildlife. I will bet that the independent have not spent 1 penny on any conservation at all. It is a total one sided report without any mention of the benefits to wildlife, poor communities, the jobs that are created, lower carbon footprint than non consumptive tourism, protection of the habitat and the value that we as hunters give the animals. The comments once again prove their inability to try and reason on facts, everything must be turned into an emotional mud slinging. Stupidity of the highest order Life is how you spend the time between hunting trips. Through Responsible Sustainable hunting we serve Conservation. Outfitter permit no. Limpopo ZA/LP/73984 PH permit no. Limpopo ZA/LP/81197 Jaco Human SA Hunting Experience jacohu@mweb.co.za www.sahuntexp.com | |||
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The environment editors email address is at the top of the article, we should send him emails explaining to him the benefits of trophy hunting, the more who send mails the better even send him a mail everyday. We must flood his mailbox to such an extent that he cannot do any work, time we follow their tactics and give them some of their own medicine. Life is how you spend the time between hunting trips. Through Responsible Sustainable hunting we serve Conservation. Outfitter permit no. Limpopo ZA/LP/73984 PH permit no. Limpopo ZA/LP/81197 Jaco Human SA Hunting Experience jacohu@mweb.co.za www.sahuntexp.com | |||
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From your article..... "For the anti-hunting community, on the other hand, it's all about the conservation of animal species and saving them for future generations to enjoy. " Bullshit. Conservation takes more than words. Words and petitions is all you anti's ever contribute. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Feel free to vent your spleen Frostbit, I expect nothing less. However, whether an anti donates hundreds or thousands of pounds or starts a petition or goes to do voluntary conservation work the sentiment remains the same. And that sentiment is the very one you quoted. | |||
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No, the goal is not save animals for future generations; it is to stop hunting. Anti's are like anti-gay, pro-life, pro-marriage, et al groups: they find certain activities repugnant but it isn't enough to not partake themselves, they want to impose their moral standards on others. How many anti's have even visited the reserves in the Selous, Ruangwa, Kigosi, etc? My guess is they visit the parks, if they visit at all. And we don't hunt the parks - only poachers do. The amount of effort devoted to eliminating sport hunting exceeds the efforts to eliminate poaching. What does that tell you about motives? | |||
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quite frankly what antis are or are not doing for conservation is not the point of either of the articles shared. If the only thing you can pick up on this and the sentiments of anti-hunters, then frankly I am happy. | |||
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No, you won't be happy until hunting is outlawed. Think about that while you chew on that steak. | |||
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The biggest enemies of real conservation is those idiots CLAIMING it. Take those idiots running LIONAID1 How much money have they actually spent on lion conservation?? Jellybrains here think we are so stupid as to any of the bullshit she posts from so called "experts"! | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by jolouburn: Feel free to vent your spleen Frostbit, I expect nothing less. However, whether an anti donates hundreds or thousands of pounds or starts a petition or goes to do voluntary conservation work the sentiment remains the same. And that sentiment is the very one you quoted.[/QUOTE Sentiment does nothing to help wildlife. Nothing ZERO! | |||
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Anotherazwriter, I'm a vegetarian. I take your opinion of me on board but I will be happy when conservation works. Be that with hunters being able to hunt or not. Whatever works is my goal. If I just wanted hunting banning why did I write the articles I did. I could have quite easily adapted to fit that mould that would say hunting is not good for conservation at all. Saeed, There are no expert quotes in either of those articles. In fact I think the only quote in either of them is one from the president of the SCI foundation. Conservation is not about money as you seem to believe at present. Where the money goes is dubious and you know it. The real conservationists are those actually doing something on the ground in Africa. Larry, I thought that I had made it clear in the second article that I agree with your statement but perhaps not. The problem with being asked to write a piece of less than 4000 words based on opinion is getting that opinion across succinctly. | |||
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Always with the money of someone else.Living in Africa and paid for by someone else.It is time people woke up and saw what these organizations are all about-using animals and peoples emotions to fraud them of their money. | |||
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They are the PH's and hunters who are picking up countless snares and apprehending poachers on a daily basis while most of the antis sit behind their computers talking about shooting hunters and cry over their keyboards. | |||
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And what have YOU actually done for conservation? And I never listen to grass eaters anyway, regardless if they are four legged or two legged! At least the four legged ones mind their own business, unlike you lot who think you have a divine right to dictate to us what we should do or eat! How stupid can one get?? Oh, sorry, I forgot. You and your lot have such a shallow, empty lives you feel so jealous of anyone having any fun.  I just ordered an Arabian Oryx steak for dinner! YUM! | |||
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And some have rejuvenated dormant and abused lands into prime wildlife estates. I have yet to see a photographic company take on and invest in lands let alone communities. They want instant cash and dump themselves into prime locations. Interesting to note that 80% of Zambia's photographic industry is housed in hunting concessions. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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In all fairness the TROPHY HUNTING AND CONSERVATION article was fairly balanced but you miss some important facts and issues. Hunting varies from country to country as so does game densities and species. For example Zambia of which 1/3 of our lands are set aside for the protection for wildlife. Most land in not deemed suitable for farming. That anti poaching and the maintenance of these Parks and a majority of the concessions is a Government but subsidised by the hunting industry. That quotas are strictly regulated and the take off is between 2 and 5%. On average the breeding statistic is 20%. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I have been watching, reading and listening of late regarding all the antihunting sentiment. I did read the 2 articles and I agree with them. 1.) Anti hunters want the wild populations saved. 2.) Hunters want the wild populations saved. Unfortunately the anti hunters believe that Disneyland is real and if you stop hunting all the animals will grow and populate. In a perfect world this would happen. Unfortunately we live in a not so perfect world. There are poachers and black markets, farmers protecting their cattle/crops, encroaching populations, habitat destruction and droughts etc. Animals need to be protected. The ONLY way to do this is to spend the money to protect them. this includes rangers on the ground, habitat restoration, waterhole/borehole installations etc. Someone please tell the antihunters that this costs money and hunters do provide this. Yes they harvest animals from the herd. They do and are sacrificing one animal for the good of the herd. I recommend that the antihunters become conservationists. Emotional arguments about killing an animal will not save the populations of animals. I recommend that the antihunters/now conservationists organize poaching patrols, and veterinarian services on the ground in Africa to save the populations of animals. We as hunters need to take the high road. We need to contact the media and tell the world what is needed. If we do not change the public opinion there will be no animals to save. | |||
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Shoot away, Shoot away, I agree completely that are way too many orgs out there that do little more than make money. Unfortunately though and I know you will not share this opinion it is on both sides of the fence. Hey 450/400, I agree with you completely as I stated in the second article I wrote. Keyboard warriors, however, are again on both sides of the fence. Sawed, I do love you, you're so predictable and yet can make me laugh time after time. I eat meat, my opinion is invalid. I don't eat meat, my opinion is invalid. You didn't listen as a meat eater, you don't listen as a vegetarian. However, for someone who doesn't listen you have a lot to reply to me !! Contributions to conservation are made on so many different ways as you well know and for those of us born without a silver spoon in our mouths we have to find ways that we can afford. I can afford my time, my writing skills and voila I contribute. Now you may say that the contribution is futile or of little value but do you know how many people across the world read what I write on various sites? I have power in my fingers and under estimating or under valuing that power is a big mistake. | |||
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Jolouburn: You say you have the power in your fingers through the articles that you write. Please put that to good use. Write an article pointed at the "Antihunter" and let them know that stopping hunting will not save the animals. Point them in the "right " direction. As you said in your one article. Hunters are conservationists. We are trying to save the animals by leaving money in Africa to protect them. We are fighting poaching and giving animals a value so the locals will not kill them all. This is our contribution on the ground. We need the antihunter/conservationist to do something as well. Protesting and writing articles about how bad hunting is will not stop the poaching and senseless slaughter of animals. Write an article about how it would be best to protect the animals. | |||
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Fair game, Thank you for your response. I agree that there is a lot missing from the article but when you are only given 4000 words it is hard to pack the info in. Thanks for the statistics also. Could you tell me if the area around you is more suited to hunting or photo safari? I note you said 80% of photo safari takes place within hunting areas. Also could you tell me how involved the hunting industry around you is with ZAWA's HWPO initiative? | |||
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Constructoman, The next article will in fact be aimed at anti-hunters. It will concentrate on trying to remove the sentimental aside of the argument and concentrate on fact. All too often our emotions rule the ways in which we think and act, it is human nature. I personally will never like trophy hunting and when I see pics or video will probably always have that sickly feeling of sadness. I do however accept that trophy hunting has value to conservation. | |||
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'There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed.' - Ernest Hemingway. And I, have been bleeding all my life! Ms. Burns, in an effort to be FAIR and BALANCED, why haven't you written an article articulating the contributions (or lack thereof) of anti-hunters? Just a suggestion, but you could include a few quotes from Lion Aid's Facebook page including the vulgarities and terroristic threats. As a matter of fact, you could include the following post by Lion Aid's very own Peshotan "The Myth" Pavri: "Dumb Nimrods! You idiots have no respect or understanding for nature, which is why I won’t bother explaining. I will fight to shut down your disgustingly immoral witchcraft & more importantly the manner in which you carry out what you do & when it is done. I will complete the past. I will come right to your Dallas Safari Club with an AK47 & a grenade and wipe the whole lot of you out!” Oh, by the way, Ernest Hemingway was both a "real journalist" and "hunter/conservationist". Cheers! DSC Life Member HSC Life Member NRA Life Member SCI RMEF | |||
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