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Originally posted by Mguu:
Tanzania is finally enforcing 6-year age limitation on lions.

5-year olds will pass, but nothing younger will be exported.

$5,000 fine, plus PH loses his licence.

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Originally posted by larryshores:
It was in the Hunting Report I believe.

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Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
How will they assess age posthumously?

Brett

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Originally posted by kibokolambogo:

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Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
How will they assess age posthumously?

Brett

X-Ray of the 2nd canine which cannot be done by the PH when it's still alive

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Originally posted by Kathi:
I read the Article in the Hunting Report E-Mail Extra that came out today.

Does anyone know why the Tanzania Government has implemented the $5,000 rule and loss of PH license? Were too many young lions being killed?

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Originally posted by Dutch44:
Mine had his AARP card in his wallet.
Dutch

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Originally posted by Bwanamich:

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My impression is that some companies are very good about the age limit. Others give it an honest effort and still others it's the Wild West and anything goes! So a little enforcement has probably been needed from the start.

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Originally posted by Palmer:
Its likely to the benefit of the game scout who will have a stern look on his face and his hand out if the just-shot lion turns out to be a little young just like they do if a zebra turns out to be a shebra.

The PH cannot afford to lose his license over a mistake.

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Originally posted by shakari:
Kibokolambogo

As far as I can remember, no other countries have minimums the way Tanzania does but as hard as it makes it for the PH, I tend to think the system of minimums is a good idea for maintaining trophy quality etc in the long term.

Where I think Tanzania does go wrong with their game laws is that they should have just one set of them, and they could do with being re-written to correct the errors and make them a little more realistic.

Just one of the stuff ups is that they forgot to mention croc in the list of animals that can be hunted in or close to water.

I'm sure you just forgot to mention it, but for the benefit of those that might not know, croc also have a minimum length.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Probably about as well as the hatchling game scouts!

Some of the new generation of game scouts are a nucking fightmare.

Actually, joking aside, there's some bloody good young PHs out there just now. Not least amongst 'em, Wikus Groenawald, Jason Van Aarde and Clinton Van Tonder. All at the relative start of their Professional career but all fantastic at what they do!

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Originally posted by shakari:
OK, let's face it, the new lot of that lot, can't be any worse than some of the old lot of that lot!

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Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Ladies & Gentlemen,

The issue of sustainable lion hunting in Tanzania was discussed dueing the annual Stakeholders meeting between operators and Ministry. There was some pressure to discuss the matter due to the upcoming COP 14 proposal by Kenya et alia to uplist lion to Appendix 1.

There were several proposals made and the one listed by Mguu was just one of them. Nothing has been decided yet!

Having said that, the Director of Wildlife (DoW) sent out a circular to all Tanzanian Block holders/operators in 2005 that the legal "age" to shoot a lion had to be 6 years. Any lion under 6 would not be allowed to be exported. So in essence, this directive exists since 2005! Unfortunately, it has not been implemented due to lack of resources, training, etc, etc.

There is all indication though that the current DoW intends to establish a "monitoring team" whose job it will be to analyze all lion trophies before export and approve those that are considered to be 6 or over.

Let us face it; IT IS NECESSARY TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! To resist this and maintain status quo will lead to the full closure of wild lions, period!

Kibokolambogo: It's X-ray of 1st premolar, which is the 2nd small tooth behind the upper canines. You will agree there are many ways of approximating the age of a lion BEFORE it is shot and therefore avoid taking a 3, 4 year old lion. The x-ray is just a tool to confirm or not the age approximation done prior to hunting it.


Kathi: Would you kindly post a link or the article for me/us who are not members of the hunting report? And yes, too many young lions are being taken but No the Government has not implemented the measures you mention yet.

BAB:

quote:

My impression is that some companies are very good about the age limit. Others give it an honest effort and still others it's the Wild West and anything goes! So a little enforcement has probably been needed from the start.

Well said!

Jeff h: A lot of lions should have be passed on regardless of whether or not this happens. By the way it is not being implemented yet.

A "verification process" is necessary and it needs to be urgently set-up IMHO. There are good programs in the Niassa reserves in Moz and in Zambia so those modules can easily be adopted for quick action. A lot of errors will happen - and therefore young lions shot - before an entire industry can reach a common standard. But such a move will/should immeadiately bring to a halt the unnecessary shooting of 2,3 and 4 year old males which is really the crux of the problem. Whatever system is adopted, the penalties cannot be as suggested above for first offenders. The aim should be NOT to penalize the client for the error made by the PH. I would suggest that the client receives his trophy anyway, perhaps with a fine so that next time they are more careful and participate in the decision making on whether or not the lion they are hunting is acceptable. It would make everyone interested in a lion hunt do a bit of research on age determination which is a good thing IMO.