Guys,

I just noticed the exhibitor list for a local African hunting show and it has "Out of Africa Safaris" listed. I know the Dawie's outfit is technically called "Out of Africa Adventure Safaris", but this has me thinking.

Link here: http://globalsporting.net/exhibitorlist.html

Do you guys think it's him? I was ready to send them an email telling them about Dawie, but I'm not so sure its the same guy.

Thoughts?

Greg

It's Dawie. I called the guy and he told me it was them. They are bringing it to the attention of the outfitter and taking it from there. Let's hope he doesn't allow him to exhibit.

Get a rope...

Will they be offering any Rhino horns for sale?

quote:

Originally posted by 7kongoni:
Will they be offering any Rhino horns for sale?

Show special - Half Price!

I will be there, maybe I will win something.

Thomasjohn,

you could call your local TV stations and bring them up to date on Dawie, Inc. They could attend the show and "out" them. That would be cool...

Rich

except...the TV station would use the matter to bash hunting and hunters in general. Out of Africa would be lost in the translation.

quote:

Originally posted by TWL:
except...the TV station would use the matter to bash hunting and hunters in general. Out of Africa would be lost in the translation.

Absolutely true.

The general media does not care about hunting ethics.

The so called "reporters" of today are nothing but attention seekers, and being anti hunting will fit that just right.

I'd rather suspect that Alan B has probably already taken steps to address the issue!

Of course.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I'd rather suspect that Alan B has probably already taken steps to address the issue!

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Thomasjohn,

you could call your local TV stations and bring them up to date on Dawie, Inc. They could attend the show and "out" them. That would be cool...

Rich

Rich,

Would you really want the local news doing an exposee on "poachers selling hunts to Africa"?

I think not.

Jim,

We don't always agree but you are spot on with your response to Rich. Can you imagine the goat rope that having the local TV station there interviewing poachers could create?

Mark

Do you suggest we give them a pass? If you let them back in, I don't ever want to hear any of you say one MFW* negative about them, okay?

Rich

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing..."


*M-Fing word

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Jim,

We don't always agree but you are spot on with your response to Rich. Can you imagine the goat rope that having the local TV station there interviewing poachers could create?

Mark

Agreed.

I have made the show organizer aware of the situation and provided links to news articles on the matter and am putting it in his hands. He has contacted them, but I will be in attendance just to see if they show.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Do you suggest we give them a pass? If you let them back in, I don't ever want to hear any of you say one MFW* negative about them, okay?

Rich

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing..."


*M-Fing word

Rich,

I said don't call the TV folks. I didn't say anything about a pass. The event schedulers could pull their invite.

You do not want anything in the press that can be remotely negative. Look at the Turkey hunting chick article in Oprah's Magazine. It's a well written piece and the huggers jumped on it. You really want some talking head on the local nightly news doing a piece that might get picked up by the NBC Nightly News?

I could see it now. "Known poachers and Rhino Horn smugglers were welcomed by local hunters today.............."

Seriously!!

Being a Life member of SCI,

I hereby propose Alan Bunn as the next President of SCI!

Anyone seconds my proposal?

Second!

THIRD!!!!

Is Alan B attending the show ?
It could provide some interesting repercussions if he gets ejected this time.

I agree that getting the media to out OOAS would be the worst possible thing. Whilst the intention is good, the reality is that the Media would simply have a sensationalist field day with the story , and hunting in general would get a bad name. Rather let the media know OOAS has been banned from exhibiting due to links with illegal hunting and poaching rings. That way its shows a stance BY an ethical hunting group AGAINST an entity which has crossed the line

quote:

Originally posted by zimFrosty:
I agree that getting the media to out OOAS would be the worst possible thing. Whilst the intention is good, the reality is that the Media would simply have a sensationalist field day with the story , and hunting in general would get a bad name. Rather let the media know OOAS has been banned from exhibiting due to links with illegal hunting and poaching rings. That way its shows a stance BY an ethical hunting group AGAINST an entity which has crossed the line

Very true.

Then one interprising reporter might stumble on the fact that Out of Africa's lawyer is one of the top management of SCI, and rumored to be a parter as well.

And just watch how the hunting community gets shown as nothing but a bunch of no good poachers.

SCI sticking their heads in the sand to ignore the shinanigans of Out of Africa for so long is probably one of the worst things they have done.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Being a Life member of SCI,

I hereby propose Alan Bunn as the next President of SCI!

Anyone seconds my proposal?

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Second!

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
THIRD!!!!

Don't be silly chaps. It's only the BoD who get to vote on that!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Very true.

Then one interprising reporter might stumble on the fact that Out of Africa's lawyer is one of teh top management of SCI, and rumored to be a parter as well.

And just wat5ch how trhe hunting community gets shown as nothing but a bunch of no good poachers.

SCI sticking their heads in the sand to ignore the shinanigans of Out of Africa fo so long is probably one of the worst things they have done.

I agree but let's not make the same mistake of keeping quiet and hoping the whole thing will quietly go away.... because it won't.

quote:

you could call your local TV stations and bring them up to date on Dawie, Inc. They could attend the show and "out" them. That would be cool...

Nothing good would come from that!

What is the fine for grievious bodily harm in the States?

Thanks for the offer, but I am not enough of an ass kisser to become the president of SCI, however Larry Sellers seems to be fully qualified for that esteemed position.

If anyone thinks that the animal rights organizations are not waiting to jump on this story, you are living in a fantasy land. By remaining silent, we are playing into their hands, and more importantly, we are not living up to our own personal code of ethics.

Therefore, I ask anyone who wants to stop Out of Africa from continuing their reign of theft and extortion against the American safari hunter, to send a protest message to the email address below.

globalexpo@opriusmail.com

Thanks Alan for the kind words but it seems the "ass kissing" award has already been won by you on numerous occasions. Somehow I don't think the SCI and other Show police will only be looking for OoA folks, keep a lookout over your shoulder.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Alan Bunn:
Thanks for the offer, but I am not enough of an ass kisser to become the president of SCI, however Larry Sellers seems to be fully qualified for that esteemed position.

If anyone thinks that the animal rights organizations are not waiting to jump on this story, you are living in a fantasy land. By remaining silent, we are playing into their hands, and more importantly, we are not living up to our own personal code of ethics.

Therefore, I ask anyone who wants to stop Out of Africa from continuing their reign of theft and extortion against the American safari hunter, to send a protest message to the email address below.

globalexpo@opriusmail.com

Mourn not the dead that in the cool earth lie...
But rather mourn the apathetic throng, the cowed and the meek
Who see the world's great anguish and its wrong and dare not speak.
- Ralph Chaplin


I just got the following message from the Global Sporting Expo concerning Out of Africa's exhibitor status.


They have been informed that they will not be participating in our show.

Tyler Lowery
Midwest Sportsman Society

GOOD FOR THEM FOR TAKING A STAND- SOMETHING SCI NEVER BOTHERED TO DO UNTIL IT WAS SHOVED DOWN THEIR THROATS!!

You know it would really be a shame if those guys would steal more chains than they ould swim the quarry with.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Smith:
You know it would really be a shame if those guys would steal more chains than they ould swim the quarry with.

Mike,

What I really find so sad is the fact that they would have been ferretted out many years ago if it wasn't for their supporters high up in our very own orgenization, the one which is supposed to protect hunting for us.

SCI!

By the way, does anyone know what has become of that champion of ethical hunting, old Kevin.

SCI had a perferct chance of making a statemet. By at least giving him the boot.

But, of course, we cannot hold our breaths for SCI to do anything that might make sense.

Or make us proud.

No Saeed, and I am not expecting any major changes soon. We can only hope and do what we can. At least these "gents" will not be officially be attending this new show. I am still wondering how they obtained entry visas considering the current situation.

Alan, Come on buddy, run for the office. I will even buy you a years worth of chapstick!

Alan:

Just curious. Did Dawie send you a Christmas card this year? Lol!!!

Mike - Don't see that happening since by his own admission was apprehended and tossed out of the SCI Convention in the past. Would most likely take more than a few votes from those here on AR to get Alan elected to anything. Don't see that happening anytime soon.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Smith:
No Saeed, and I am not expecting any major changes soon. We can only hope and do what we can. At least these "gents" will not be officially be attending this new show. I am still wondering how they obtained entry visas considering the current situation.

Alan, Come on buddy, run for the office. I will even buy you a years worth of chapstick!

@ Mike: Thanks for the Chapstick offer, but I'll have to stick with the Capstick (no relation).

@ larryshores: No, but I am thinking it must have just got lost in the holiday mail.


I wish I could take one iota of credit for busting Dawie and the Out of Africa gang, but after years of complaining to SCI, all I got was denial and hostility... just like you see from their supporters and enablers on this forum. I have no illusions that any of my efforts will cause any change at SCI, however some high level arrests might get 'er done.

A couple of safari hunters did get their money back due to the efforts of several people, but only because those hunters were smart enough to take pictures and document everything while they were still over in Africa. Having evidence that could hold up in US courts forced Out of Africa to cough up about $20K, if I recall correctly. But for hundreds of others of their victims, those unfortunate people never got one dime back or saw any of their trophies... unless they were high enough in the SCI hierarchy that Out of Africa thought they might be useful.

Nope, Dawie and the rest of Out of Africa got busted the old fashioned way... they did themselves in through greed, arrogance, and stupidity.

What his allies at SCI have to worry about now is, considering he seems to be a malignant narcissist and a sociopath, he will not hesitate one minute in turning them all in to keep himself out of jail or get a reduced sentence. WHEN he talks, DNA technology will easily identify poached lions from Hwange, ivory from Botswana and Zimbabwe, leopards and rhinos from SA, etc., then the Lacey Act will kick in and can be enforced on his American allies.

There has been quite a buildup of evidence over the past six or seven years, much of which was culled off the Out of Africa brochures and website, not to mention the undercover operations that have been going on. People like to talk, especially to brag about their exploits, and take pictures, etc.

At that point, there may be other Americans who will want to cut a deal. Any bets they will all stay quiet to protect their friends?

Yes, the usual insightful and intelligent comment from the forum idiot. I am glad to be in the company of another another person who got thrown out of the SCI Convention last year... an undercover agent for the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

Who was, by the way, the lead agent in arresting and convicting Dawie Groenewald for felony leopard smuggling. The venue security guys, knew who he was and what he was doing, had to call him into their office on Friday and tell him that SCI demanded he be ejected from the show and threatened that if he returned to the show, he would be arrested.

This agent was also investigating some other big SCI contributors who are engaged in some 'dodgey' activities. Apparently, the only thing it takes to get thrown out of a SCI show is to ask too many questions about their big money contributors.

It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out that there is something rotten going on here. Likewise, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who is the SCI 'bitch' on this forum. You can all make up your own minds as to who deserves an award for kissing ass and who does not.

i vote for larry, i vote for larry!!!- for SCI ASS KISSER THAT IS. never, ever SCI a question about their ethics committee- because it really doesn't exist. when a past president, a major exhibitor, and a member with many(paid) record book entries can admit to shooting game from a chopper in court documents and nothing happens- well even Larry should be able to figure that one out. right Larry? oh, that's right- the Russian game dept official who was present said it was legal, so who cares if it is ethical, right Larry? right Larry?????????????????

Congrats Alan you now have (2) votes. Keep up the good work. As expected jdollar and Alan have now fallen to new depths in their posts by inserting personal attacks and showing their true colors. You guys are so predictible it's getting where it's no fun anymore jabbing the needle a little. jd - sorry about your stutter problem, doctor in order?

"Russian game dept. official"? You lost me on that one. Never been there, don't really know much about the place other than they are not on our side much.

Saw a new commercial last night on one of the outdoor program channels, "Watch for an OoA represenative coming soon to your neighborhood".

Sellers, you might actually be the clueless dumb ass that you claim to be. If that is true, and you are not just being disingenuous, then you need to keep your mouth shut about things you don't know about. If you really don't know anything about OoA, poaching, SCI, etc. then do everyone a favor and spare us all the blabber about what you don't know.

Here is what jdollar was referring to, a story that everyone remotely interested in SCI knows about, and one now used as ammo by all the animal rights groups to torpedo legitimate and ethical hunting. All this thanks to the actions of some so-called 'leaders' in SCI.

The hypocrisy of it all really throws a pall on the Conklin and Weatherby awards, but if you live in a world of fantasy and denial, then you can just claim, "You lost me on that one".

But hey, the reward for being such a groveling, ass kissing, boot licking, sycophantic lackey could be the honor of handing out the new Duncan/Simpson Door Gunner of the Year Award!





Houston tycoon Duncan's hunting guide indicted

By TOM FOWLER Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
Sept. 13, 2007, 1:11PM

The guide who led Houston billionaire Dan Duncan and others on a 2002 hunting trip in Russia was indicted by a federal grand jury in Houston on Wednesday for importing antlers and horns he allegedly knew were obtained illegally.

Robert Kern, head of Berryville, Va.-based outfitter The Hunting Consortium, was indicted on one count of violating the Lacey Act, a law which makes it illegal to import wildlife that was obtained in violation of any other country's laws.

An attorney for Duncan said Wednesday that grand jurors have declined to bring charges against his client and the other hunters on the trip.

"We're hopeful that this matter is over as far as Dan Duncan and the other hunters are concerned," attorney Rusty Hardin said.

An attorney for Kern said his client will fight the charges.

"Bob Kern is not guilty of these allegations and will vigorously contest them in court and trial," attorney Tim Heaphy said.

Duncan is considered the wealthiest man in Houston and ranks 85th on Forbes' worldwide list of billionaires, with an estimated net worth of $8.2 billion.

His wealth comes from his role as chairman of the company that manages Enterprise Products Partners, a midstream energy giant with more than 30,000 miles of natural gas, petrochemical and crude oil pipelines and other facilities.

Kern organized the September 2002 hunting trip to Siberia where Duncan and at least four others hunted and killed moose and sheep while flying in a helicopter. Hunting from an aircraft is illegal in Russia and the U.S.

According to the indictment, "Kern used helicopters to locate trophy-sized moose and sheep for hunters on the trip. The helicopters were then used as airborne shooting platforms by the hunters."

Duncan testified before a Houston grand jury in July that he did not know it was against the law to hunt from an aircraft, particularly because he had done so in Russia many years before.

Hardin said Wednesday that in July a grand jury "no-billed" his client and the other hunters on the trip.

"What I think this clearly means is that the grand jury believed Dan Duncan when he said he didn't know it was against the law," Hardin said.

Hardin said government officials did not tell him about the no-bill from the grand jury, but others involved in the case from out-of-state did.

The 2002 trip was well-known in the world of big-game hunters.

Mike Simpson, a Conroe taxidermist who went on the trip with his son, Travis, wrote an article about it in the January-February 2003 issue of Safari, a magazine published by Safari Club International. Pictures from the hunt were also published in Ovis, a quarterly magazine for sheep hunters.

"Mike Simpson is a fine sportsman, a good man, and he sure didn't and wouldn't ever hunt in a manner he knew was wrong or against the law," his attorney Tom Hagemann said.

The trip also stood out because of the caliber of the hunters.

Tom Riley, the former executive director of Safari Club International and the former special agent in charge in the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service's Atlanta office was on the trip, as well as Mexican businessman Humbert Thummler.

Duncan and Mike Simpson have both won the Conklin Award, an annual prize that "recognizes the world's greatest active hunter who pursues game in the most difficult terrain and conditions, exhibits the highest degree of ethics, and is a strong participant in wildlife conservation," according to the organization's Web site.

Thummler, Duncan and Simpson have also won the Weatherby Hunting and Conservation Award, which recognizes hunters for their dedication to wildlife conservation and ethical hunting practices.

Attorneys for the other men could not be reached for comment.

Neither of the articles mentions using helicopters for hunting, only that they were used to transport the hunters and their equipment to a base camp.

"We started out scouting for moose by glassing from small hills along the rivers," Simpson wrote in the magazine article. "Moose were everywhere. Each of us passed on several small bulls and collected very old, large-palmed, heavy-beamed trophies."

The moose qualified for Safari Club records, according to the article.

Kern could face a maximum penalty of up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

Chronicle reporter Cindy George contributed to this report.

tom.fowler@chron.com

quote:

handing out the new Duncan/Simpson Door Gunner of the Year Award!