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That was my first thought also.... I hope Stu can get up to full speed soon. BTW, you and Stu could be twins. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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The two quotes above are surprising to me to say the least. I do not know either of you, but have read your reports and posts and you both impressed me as logical and "down to earth". I sat and watched this whole fiasco play out from day one, reading every post on every thread on the subject. I witnessed the best and the worst in the posters, One group would condemn Tim while another group tripped over themselves to insert their nose in his anus. One group spent their bandwidth arguing the facts of a situation they were not present for and knew nothing about while another group spent it ingratiating themselves for the money they were contributing. The reason I never chimed in was because I had nothing that was anybodies business to add and it was not my place to judge the parties involved (Stu & Tim). I will comment that I was shocked at how much Tim appeared more concerned with preservation of his career and reputation particularly by his constant efforts to assure everyone how fast Stu was healing, how quickly Stu was going to be back to work. I did not see Tim offer an apology, in fact, in 12 posts on his original thread announcing this event he used the word "regret" once, in his opening sentence, and it wasn't even "regret" for Stu, it was "regret" that HE had to inform everyone about what he had done. The only thing else close to regret in all of his posts was HIS potential embarrasment in others seeing what he had done on this thread and future episodes of his show. Finally, after 4 months, the president of the ZPHGA has to get on an internet forum and call Tim out about why Stu has only recieved $2500 after 4 months in the hospital, tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills, and loss of his livelihood, all by Tim's hand. Who is heading this clusterfuck up? I can tell you who should be, the man that shot Stu in the back. Who by his own admission to the question is detached and doesn't even know what is going on with the money and that the man he shot has not recieved it. Where is the sorrow? Where is the regret? Where is the man who wants to move heaven and earth, realizes he can't so instead makes sure he has done everything he can to make sure the man he shot recieves everything available to him? We all know where he is because he posts here, he is moose hunting and whitetail hunting and continuing on with his career while the victim of his accident lays in a hospital bed and on an operating table and in physical therapy and stresses about how he is going to feed his family and if his career is over. My Grandfather had a word for this type of behaviour, it was "chickenshit". | |||
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All the best Stu, hope you recover soon and get back to what you love doing. Martin, good on you for following this up! | |||
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Did you contribute financially to help address the situation? Mike | |||
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I am not from Texas so I may have a little different outlook on life, but based on my life's education I was always been raised to cover your responsibility no matter what the cost, I was always told when you get to the point you no longer can feed yourself or your family then and only then do you reach out for help. I knew better than to reach out without showing a major weight loss first. I feel pity for Mr Taylor, if I was him in his situation and became aware of the escapades of the persons who put me into the situation by no fault by myself I would invite him back for another hunt but I would be behind him this time to see how this would be handled. I have never accused Tim of anything, it was a accident in every sense of the word but come on Tim you should be spending your time and money make him as right as he can be Just my 2 cents NRA Life Member, ILL Rifle Assoc Life Member, Navy | |||
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The two quotes above are surprising to me to say the least. I do not know either of you, but have read your reports and posts and you both impressed me as logical and "down to earth". I sat and watched this whole fiasco play out from day one, reading every post on every thread on the subject. I witnessed the best and the worst in the posters, One group would condemn Tim while another group tripped over themselves to insert their nose in his anus. One group spent their bandwidth arguing the facts of a situation they were not present for and knew nothing about while another group spent it ingratiating themselves for the money they were contributing. The reason I never chimed in was because I had nothing that was anybodies business to add and it was not my place to judge the parties involved (Stu & Tim). I will comment that I was shocked at how much Tim appeared more concerned with preservation of his career and reputation particularly by his constant efforts to assure everyone how fast Stu was healing, how quickly Stu was going to be back to work. I did not see Tim offer an apology, in fact, in 12 posts on his original thread announcing this event he used the word "regret" once, in his opening sentence, and it wasn't even "regret" for Stu, it was "regret" that HE had to inform everyone about what he had done. The only thing else close to regret in all of his posts was HIS potential embarrasment in others seeing what he had done on this thread and future episodes of his show. Finally, after 4 months, the president of the ZPHGA has to get on an internet forum and call Tim out about why Stu has only recieved $2500 after 4 months in the hospital, tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills, and loss of his livelihood, all by Tim's hand. Who is heading this clusterfuck up? I can tell you who should be, the man that shot Stu in the back. Who by his own admission to the question is detached and doesn't even know what is going on with the money and that the man he shot has not recieved it. Where is the sorrow? Where is the regret? Where is the man who wants to move heaven and earth, realizes he can't so instead makes sure he has done everything he can to make sure the man he shot recieves everything available to him? We all know where he is because he posts here, he is moose hunting and whitetail hunting and continuing on with his career while the victim of his accident lays in a hospital bed and on an operating table and in physical therapy and stresses about how he is going to feed his family and if his career is over. My Grandfather had a word for this type of behaviour, it was "chickenshit".[/QUOTE] +1 | |||
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Wow. Too bad there isn't a way to harness all the negative energy in this thread to make a positive outcome for Mr. Taylor. There's a legitimate public interest in the situation from folks on this board, but in the end it is really such a private and personal matter. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Bill, are you reading the same thread I am? Martins thread apparently got someone off their ass and got $38k wired to the man it was intended for. Kudos to Martin for caring enough about his organization, peers and Stu specifically to remind those who went on with their lives that they had unfinished business thousands of miles away. | |||
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I'm a newbie here, but it seems to me that with DSC, SCI and the other shows coming up soon, maybe someone Stu knows and trusts could receive donations at these events? When one person takes responsibility for the proceeds and is accountable for their ultimate destination (Stu), a lot of people will gladly write checks or provide cash in confidence. "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken." Tanzania 2012: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/8331015971 Saskatoon, Canada 2013: http://forums.accuratereloadin...4121043/m/7171030391 Las Pampas, Argentina 2014: http://forums.accuratereloadin...4107165/m/1991059791 | |||
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505 I think he could have sent the money alot faster without this hickup.. Without to start a 501C3 account etc shit money was already there but had to be sent back. Anyway im not here to judge anything I think it is just low standards to badmouth a man that is living his own nightmare right now. As a sidenote, the other kid that was shot in Zimbabwe this year (Anthony ?) How much money has his client sent him for a lost arm ? I doubt 40K the 4 first months... | |||
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I might have missed this somewhere all the way so if I have please send me in that direction. Tim, can you tell us what you have personally paid to Stu? Your insurance company? Your employer? I assume more is being done than just a show on it? | |||
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These threads absolutely amaze me. Mr. Herald has absolutely no responsibility to keep the curious second guessers totally informed about what is going on. If you are concerned about Stu Taylor, write a check. What Tim Herald does or does not do is between him and Stu Taylor and ultimately his maker. I saw the same thing with Craig Boddington's daughter yet not too much about the young hunter who lost his arm. It seems we enjoy going after and holding accountable people who are a little more in the public eye. | |||
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I could not agree more............... and you can bet your last dollar that lawyers are involved with regards to liability of individuals and companies that are connected in any shape or form and they will be telling Tim and others that they are to say nothing, nor apologize for anything (especially on a bloody forum ) or say anything that infers guilt or admits liability. What happened is tragic. The last place I would discuss too much of anything would be on this forum......... and all you have to do is read the posts to see why. ______________________________________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift. | |||
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And yet what is clear to the observer is the lack of oversight and concern shown by the responsible party. Yes I said responsible, not fault, two different things. Was Tim at fault? Maybe, I wasn't there. Was he responsible? without question. It has been shown that after setting up the donation can, he did not follow up on whether the donations has been delivered to the injured party. If he was concerned, he would have been in contact with Stu to see how he is doing and known that only $2500 has been forwarded. He seemed to have washed his hands after setting the can and contacted the show's insurance company. Oh someone else is taking care of it. It would be a "stand up" kind of thing to check on Stu and see if he needed anything, like some support for his family. | |||
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If you want to keep it to yourself than you should not have solicited funds from other people who had nothing to do with the situation. No different than asking for public assistance you need to show the need or like applying for a loan without filling out the application. Tim really should have hired a public image firm to handle this and a publicist to deal with the aftermath As far as saying nothing most ridiculous statement going, it is on film....who is he gonna blame the unknown little guy in the back of his head that told him to do or the gun manufacturer??? NRA Life Member, ILL Rifle Assoc Life Member, Navy | |||
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No one on this board knows Tim's thoughts and motivations, except God! What is an offence to some is the apparent neglect. By the very fact that Tim immediately informed and asked for assistance shows responsible behavior, though some, again, are constantly judging his motives in that. Is it because that is what THEIR motives would have been? Tim is trying to keep his job and his head in in all of this. If he loses his job and his sanity he'll not be able to provide any further assistance to Stu. It seems to me that he has taken every step possible, as far as what is known publicly to this period in time, to help alleviate the pain and suffering of Stu Taylor. He has been the main (not only) motivator behind 38K being raised and sent despite obstacles all along the way. I don't profess to know Tim's ultimate motivation, and I don't believe anyone else does either. I leave that judgment to the only One who does -- Jeremiah 17:vs 9 - 10. Bob www.bigbores.ca "Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT) | |||
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505, if it is owing solely to this thread that Mr. Taylor is better off to the tune of $38K, then that is wonderful news. Guess I did not read it closely enough, for which I apologize. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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My questions are just questions no more no less. I know from past experience that in SOME cases I have seen the people doing the fund raiser have not put a dime in and have no intention of doing it but are more than willing to ask others. I have a problem with people asking for money when they in fact put in none themselves. Personally, I think Tim is a great guy and will do what is right but I would like to know and think it would clear up a lot of confusion and questions on this forum. | |||
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I can assure you all that I was the first to donate to the Conservation Force Fund and have given periodically since, and will continue to do so. I am not going to make my bank records public on a forum, that's for sure. Because of the Oct 19 email from Cons Force saying they were in the process of sending Stu $7000, it appeared that money was being sent in periodically. Just prior to that I had received a note from Stu saying thanks for the first money transfer, so again, everything seemed to be in order. Martin's post was a shock to me as well. I explained earlier why Cons Force delayed transfer. I guess many think I should quit my job because it involves hunting. If I do that, I can't donate money, I won't have much of a way to help raise more money, etc. How does that help? Also, when I gave early initial reports on Stu's health, etc. - those were the reports I was getting. I was just passing on info, not making up stuff to downplay how serious things are. I have certainly not washed my hands of this as some have accused. I will continue to send $ as well as work to raise more money. I am finished with this thread. This is why I haven't said much for the past 2 months... Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | |||
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FYI To date Tim has put $ 1000 towards the donated funds! Regards Martin martinpieterssafaris@gmail.com www.martinpieterssafaris.com " hunt as if it's your last one you'll ever be on" | |||
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Martin...that is not true at all...it is way more than that. I do not know where you got that number...this is just an out and out untruth. I am completely blown away by this... Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | |||
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Guys, I think it is important to remember there is a difference with someone like Tim hunting and you or I. That's how he makes his money. He doesn't work (hunt) he can't help anyone. I met Tim for the first time in October of 2011 when he came up for his bear hunt. I saw him again this September when he was up for his moose hunt. I've gotten pretty good at reading faces from working with patients. It was abundantly clear that Tim 2012 was a very different person from Tim 2011. His face was hagard and he just looked tired and worn out. I wasn't under any circumstances going to bring up this subject because aside from the fact it wasn't and still isn't ANY of my business it most certainly had to be a painful subject that he hardly needed reminding of. Tim did bring up the subject briefly on his own and it was clear it was very much in his mind and an emotional and painful subject to broach. I have come to learn this forum can be a cold and thoughtless place sometimes. I can appreciate that Martin out of general concern brought this subject up. What I can't appreciate are all the people who have no idea what they're talking about throwing sucker punches at a person who I can assure you doesn't need them when this is no more their business to stick their nose in than it is mine! Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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let me guess- he got it from Stu and the receipts he got( which seem to differ greatly from what has been stated here)???? to quote Hamlet-"something is rotten in Denmark".... Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Martin, You seem like a good guy to me, but when you put numbers like that up on the board (the $1,000 to Stu from Tim) you are helping to create a negative spectacle and making it less likely to get contributions in the future. Who wants to give money and then be publically ridiculed for it if someone else doesn't think it is enough? The amount people give to charity is suppose to be private and confidential. You are scaring off future donations. Mike Core STAY IN THE FIGHT! | |||
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Exactly!! ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Great job in helping Martin. I hope stu gets better and back to hunting. | |||
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Martin, So ... that would be Tim has put up $1,000 of the $2,500 that you know about? Since you don't know the details of the $38,000 that is now on the way, do you think your post was fair? I don't. Checking on things and refocusing the matter with your original post was good and it appears to have been needed at this time. The $1,000 post was a cheap shot considering you know nothing of the make up of the $38,000 transfer. | |||
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Tim thank you for the post. I am not asking for bank records. You said you donated and I believe that. I would be interested to know the perspective of your employer in this. Are they just letting insurance deal with it? | |||
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+1 [/QUOTE]+2- and i think Martin's post was definitely needed- as almost nothing had been done by Tim or anyone else actually involved in the transfer. essentially no money sent( even though many thousands had been raised), Stu still SOL...VERY SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS. as an aside, i see a big difference between following up a buffalo i wounded and someone getting hurt by the buffalo- AND SHOOTING SOMEONE WHILE FOLLOWING A BUFFALO. guess that's just me. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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I see it as just the opposite. Both the buffalo and the possibility of getting shot are hazards of the trade of a PH. I feel horrible for Stu and I hope he gets well soon and gets back to work. My hat is off to all of those who have donated. ----------- As a side note: for the life of me I can't understand why the holding company waiting so long to wire the money. I understand that they were waiting for more money to clear, but understanding the situation I would think they would have sent some of the money earlier. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Gentlemen, as chairman of ZPHGA, I get tasked with certain issues, ( some of these tasks are pretty demanding and I am often thrown into the public eye and I get personally attacked ), these are the beauties of being the one in the front line! One of them was to bring the public on this forum up to speed as to where Stu stands. It has been several months and Stu is ' in the dark' The figures I have quoted are from Stu Taylor himself, they are not fabricated in any way, I am sure Stu has no reason to lie to his friends on where he stands financially. This is NOT a personal issue at all, more a drive by ZPHGA to stand by one of it's members when the time counts. If this post does anything, it will perhaps start more constant dialogue between Tim and Su and hopefully between the two of them they will know where they stand. Regards Martin martinpieterssafaris@gmail.com www.martinpieterssafaris.com " hunt as if it's your last one you'll ever be on" | |||
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Martin, I would also think that as chairman of ZPHGA you would be tasked with dealing with issues in as professional and responsible a manner as possible. Assuming that to be the case (which I am sure it is and is typical of how I think you personally handle issues), why would you not reach out to Tim privately to express any concerns or to first verify information? Tim is accessible, here and by email. If Tim failed to respond or his responses were unacceptable, then you could make the decision to raise the issues here. Certainly I can understand the possible need to bring to the public certain information, as you suggest, but not until I first attempted to privately address any concerns and assure that I had my facts correct. Mike | |||
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Hey Mike, keep this up and maybe Tim will give you an autograph when you run into him @ DSC in January. Pathetic. Martin, don't let the hunting show lackies here deter you from doing what you think is right for Stu, your organization and the PH's you represent. Tim,
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Martin, Which brings up a great point. What is the ZPHGA doing in this case in particular to provide monetary support and are there any future plans to provide some kind of disability insurance or program for these types of accidents for your members? | |||
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This is a very sad, unfortunate situation. There are elements of truth to what both sides say. Tim, by virtue 0f publicly asking for donations (which I agree with) did open this for public comment and debate. Conservation Force surely held on to the money for FAR too long. This often happens when one lets another entity handle something for them. Donating to CF allowed people to donate and get a tax deduction. That is a great idea. It unfortunately took them too long to send the money. No one here knows how much money that Tim has sent to CF. It is no ones business here. It is implied that Tim is not the owner of his company. If true, Tim can't be hammering on his employers insurance company. They likely would not talk to him at all. The only way for Tim to contribute to Stu is to continue working. No one here knows Tim's personal financial situation. No one knows how much he contributed. Whatever amount he contributed may or may not have broke the bank. it is no ones business here. From my standpoint, the only post incident thing I can fault Tim for is not staying in contact with CF to find out how much has been sent and when. Finally, I love all the arm chair quarterbacking about what should or should not have happened during that incident. At the same time, look at the opening of TAA. There is video if both Ivan and Len Taylor backing up. Seen the CMS elephant DVD ? Buzz and Myles back up often. I guess these guys don't know what they are doing either.  | |||
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Tim, Is this a pity party for you? Where did you get that from? I have not seen anyone suggest that, rather they have suggested you get off your ass and get involved helping the man you shot. Most people learned in middle school that if all you are focused on is what you want to do, you won't get to do it for long. However, if you focus on taking care of business and doing what is right, there will always be time, resources and opportunity to do what you want. This was a horrible accident and presented you an opportunity to show the depth of your charachter, have you done that? | |||
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Truth be told, my real hope is for a t-shirt. Sincerely, Hunting Show Lackey Mike | |||
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With all due respect why not send Martin a PM and deal with this in a PM? It was an Accident, yet Tim is the person who is responsible for the Accident. If this happened in the US Tim would most likely be taking on all financial responsibility. Why should Tim's obligations be any different with respect to Stu? Tim has used AR to promote his and his employers interest yet it seems there has been some failure to follow-up, communicate, and provide for Stu.....as someone noted above, possibly Tim or his employers should seek some professional advice/assistance on how to handle this and..... It seems some here consider questioning Tim as sitting in Judgment. As someone stated above, God (and Courts) sit in Judgment and last time I checked neither was a Member of AR...but in my view it is reasonable to question actions or lack thereof, etc... I think Martin Peters did the right thing to question what has been done and correctly addressed these issues to Tim in a forum that Tim has publically used in a variety of ways.... Someone asked that Stu come on AR and take part in this screw-up...Stu should be focused on this recovery and not subjected to any of this b.s.... | |||
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